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Flo_Evans
One crazy mofo
Saved by a Harley dude
(08-28-2007, 12:56 AM)
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OK so I live in the wonderful state of Missouri where you have to pay personal property tax on every fucking thing you own. I thought I was being slick and leased a car. Not so fast!

Apparently SAAB paid my personal property tax on the leased car and is now trying to bill me for it. Its been almost a year since I turned the car in so I am kinda like WTF? Am I really liable for this? And if I am why didn't I just have to pay it myself in the 1st place? And why the hell didn't they just include this in the monthly lease price instead of sticking me with a $1000 bill at the end of three years?!

F.U. SAAB! BMW for life now.
dog$
Hates quality gaming
(08-28-2007, 01:12 AM)
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12 CSR 10-113.200 - (3)(D)

(D) Leases of tangible personal property generally follow the same taxing guidelines as sales of tangible personal property. Leases of tangible personal property by Missouri lessors are subject to sales tax if the lessee obtains possession in Missouri.

And if anything, the most the dealer could have done would be to include the assessed tax during the year of sale. Beyond that, you would have to worry about whether the tax laws were changed and if they did, you would have even more headaches - what if you paid that $1000 bill on the first year only to find out years later that it should have been $700? Regardless, what should a dealership do with prepaid taxes, particularly if it's not in their business to deal with that type of asset?

To specifically answer your questions though, I wouldn't be able to give an accurate answer without seeing the terms of the lease.
Flo_Evans
One crazy mofo
Saved by a Harley dude
(08-28-2007, 01:27 AM)
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The thing is, I am cool with missouri. It's SAAB thats after me! Can they ding my credit for this? My lease says paid as agreed/account closed on my credit report now. I don't have a copy of the lease agreement but I am pretty sure I had them include all taxes in the price. Should I try and get them to produce the original lease agreement? Did I just skim over the fine print and miss this part? (quite possible)

And WTF missouri for charging personal property tax on a fuckin leased car! I don't pay pp tax in my stupid apartment. WTF. I might just move to illinois.
dog$
Hates quality gaming
(08-28-2007, 01:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Flo_Evans

Should I try and get them to produce the original lease agreement?

Absolutely, and raise hell if they don't or won't.

It seems to be a pretty bizarre situation regardless. I don't deal with leases so I don't know how common it is, but I have no idea why Saab assumed the initial payment of taxes to begin with. I would think that the taxes would have been passed onto you right away. Hell, all things considered, they could have charged you interest on the taxes that they're now asking you to pay.

I'm no help about the impact this all has on your credit status, too. Sorry. :/
Tarazet
Member
(08-28-2007, 01:54 AM)
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I would consult a lawyer, but it sounds to me like this. The leasing company had to pay property tax on the car, since they owned it - it was income property for them, which you used and paid a rental fee for. Now they're trying to collect the taxes they paid. If the lease agreement doesn't clearly and specifically say you have to do this, flip 'em the bird and walk away. Don't believe them if they try to verbally enforce it because they can't.
Phoenix
Member
(08-28-2007, 03:58 AM)
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What dog$ posted appears to be everything you need to know - the law fucks you, period.
Tarazet
Member
(08-28-2007, 04:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by Phoenix

What dog$ posted appears to be everything you need to know - the law fucks you, period.

What dog$ posted is about sales tax, not property tax, and that's seamlessly integrated into the lease payments. The $1,000 issue is different.
Phoenix
Member
(08-28-2007, 04:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by sonarrat

What dog$ posted is about sales tax, not property tax, and that's seamlessly integrated into the lease payments. The $1,000 issue is different.


Not quite. Unless there is something in the lease that specifically takes care of the lease payments (and it has to be in writing in the contract), the leasor is actually liable for the lease payments. That's true in pretty much every state that has personal property tax. The lease company receives the bill, but whether or not they are making you pay for it is really up to the contract.
Tarazet
Member
(08-28-2007, 04:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by Phoenix

Not quite. Unless there is something in the lease that specifically takes care of the lease payments (and it has to be in writing in the contract), the leasor is actually liable for the lease payments. That's true in pretty much every state that has personal property tax. The lease company receives the bill, but whether or not they are making you pay for it is really up to the contract.

Yes, you're right. Dog$ cited a piece of legal code which was about sales tax rather than property tax and I thought that's what you were referring to. The lessor pays property taxes on the car because it is the lessor's property, not the customer's.
dog$
Hates quality gaming
(08-28-2007, 11:56 AM)
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Isn't it about both?

I got there by searching on [missouri "personal property" tax]. Once at their Department of Revenue page, I did a quick search of their Regulations to find something on personal property. That seemed to be the only relevant result. My interpretation of the clause was that any laws of taxation reguarding personal property that was purchased is equally applicable to similar leased property.

Their Revised Statutes is probably what I should have cited (RSMo 146) to point to the law itself.

Anyway, his initial post made it seem like he wondered where it was lawful for this to happen, so I took it upon myself to try to find an answer. Too hasty to be first I guess.
Phoenix
Member
(08-28-2007, 03:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by dog$

Isn't it about both?

Yes and no. In the absence of other governing laws it would apply. But personal property tax bills go to the owner of the vehicle - which is the leasing company. If they have contractually put that into your payments then you don't have to pay it. If they didn't and they pass that bill on to you - well, they can legally do that provided they have that documented somewhere in the contract. If they don't - they are actually shit out of luck because you agreed to the lease with certain terms and they can't arbitrarily increase those terms or just send you an additional bill.

So in short - they own the car, they get the bill from the state. You lease the car - if in the terms they make you pay for it - you gotta pay, if not - tell them to sit and spin.

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