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SOME-MIST · Mar 20, 2015

AlabastreAizo said:
I bought Muchimuchi Pork and Pink Sweets the other day, and... I don't like them. Is something wrong with me? I mean, MMP is all right, but I really don't like Pink Sweets. The levels are soooo long and boring. I literally fell asleep on the last boss last night and got a game over. I'm dreading going back through it.

you might just not not be a yagawa fan which is totally understandable since it's very masochistic and different from the typical ikeda/asada CAVE fare.

both employ a very touchy rank system, promote scoring (medal chaining) + suiciding as a tactic to reduce rank, etc..

In all honesty, I'm not really a fan of the aesthetics at all... but the gameplay is top notch. I can say that the theme of muchi muchi pork is pretty amazing tho (fat girls who turned into pigs riding flying motorcycles collecting enough piggies to increase the lard meter for scoring).

Aizo · Apr 2, 2015

What is it that people love so much about Ketsui? I'm thinking of picking it up for my next shmup.

Tain · Apr 3, 2015

AlabastreAizo said:
What is it that people love so much about Ketsui? I'm thinking of picking it up for my next shmup.

I said something awfully similar back in the GOTY 2010 voting thread:

It has fast patterns, a smooth difficulty curve that starts off high by Cave's standards, badass music and visuals (it has the most serious tone of any Cave game), satisfying rhythmic chirping when you're playing with the game's irresistable and crazy-risky scoring system, and two separate second loops that look absolutely ridiculous.

Sir Ilpalazzo · Apr 3, 2015

Another thing I really like about Ketsui is how tactile the shooting feels in it. The way the speed of your options' lock-on varies depending on how close you are to your target, combined with how your main shot actually doesn't reach all the way across the screen, goes a long way towards making the shooting itself more fun than any other shmup I've played.

Dash Kappei · Apr 3, 2015

I wish the psn version of Ketsui would go on sale once... or maybe it did and I never noticed brrrr

Wonko_C · Apr 3, 2015

AlabastreAizo said:
What is it that people love so much about Ketsui? I'm thinking of picking it up for my next shmup.

From a casual points of view it's like Dodonpachi's cousin set in the not so distant future, perhaps they're even in the same universe. That's reason enough for me.

Seraphis Cain · Apr 3, 2015

I really hope I can find Ketsui on sale for under $40 one of these days. Used, obviously. I know that's asking a lot but I'm kinda poor and Ketsui is the only PS3 bullet hell I'm missing (aside from stuff like the Gundemonium games, which I have on Steam).

@MUWANdo · Apr 3, 2015

Cave's new iOS game is out on the JP iOS Store. I shan't be playing it.

RE: Ketsui, I like it because it has a simple and relatively straightforward scoring system that doesn't force me to micromanage counter-intuitive bullshit like many other modern STGs and rewards me for doing what I intuitively do in every other STG (point-blanking things and taking dumb risks for no reason).

danmaku · Apr 3, 2015

AlabastreAizo said:
What is it that people love so much about Ketsui? I'm thinking of picking it up for my next shmup.

Things I love about Ketsui:

- The scoring system is based on short loops, so if you fuck up something it's not a big deal, you can immediately start another loop. It's much more forgiving in comparison to DDP games, that ask you to chain an entire level (and in Guwange you need to chain the entire game!). This means there's a nice middle ground between "pure survival" and "world record scores" gameplay.

- The bullet patterns are among the best ever seen.

- Killer soundtrack.

- Fantastic pacing. Cave games in general are great for that, but Ketsui is even better. There's never a dull moment, it's so relentless you'll easily forget to breathe until you get to the WARNING sign before the boss.

jbueno · Apr 3, 2015

Seraphis Cain said:
I really hope I can find Ketsui on sale for under $40 one of these days. Used, obviously. I know that's asking a lot but I'm kinda poor and Ketsui is the only PS3 bullet hell I'm missing (aside from stuff like the Gundemonium games, which I have on Steam).

It was like $50 for a new copy a week ago in play-asia. I managed to snag the last copy of the LE which was $80. Anyways what has been said about the game is spot on, love love love it, absolutely worth it; been spamming my instagram feed with pics LOL. Hell I even purchased a PS3 in order to play it since importing a J-360 would be prohibitively expensive over here.

Looks great on SD sets. It´s 480i but hardly flickers, I swear it almost looks like 240p..

StarCreator · Apr 3, 2015

Make sure you set overscan to 94% to get it as close to dot by dot as possible.

Aizo · Apr 4, 2015

jbueno said:
It was like $50 for a new copy a week ago in play-asia. I managed to snag the last copy of the LE which was $80. Anyways what has been said about the game is spot on, love love love it, absolutely worth it; been spamming my instagram feed with pics LOL. Hell I even purchased a PS3 in order to play it since importing a J-360 would be prohibitively expensive over here.

Looks great on SD sets. It´s 480i but hardly flickers, I swear it almost looks like 240p..

Ketsui, heart disease books, and the NieR soundtrack. I like you.

SOME-MIST · Apr 6, 2015

2nd batch of mushihimesama futari black label 'another ver' (MFBA) kits went up for $850 if anyone's in the market for one.

I nabbed one off of his first x5 batch a couple days ago and probably won't get it till the end of the month, but I'm pretty excited. ebay.com link

courtesy of the shmups.system11 forums.

StarCreator · Apr 6, 2015

I wasn't even aware a version of the game had reduced enemy health. That's bizarre and sort of worrying if there isn't an obvious marker of which version is being played somewhere on the screen.

SOME-MIST · Apr 6, 2015

yea... there's been some testing comparing the two boards. so far, God mode seems to be the only one untouched. original and maniac have reduced boss hp tho... and even though it's been dumped in mame... I think this is the only way to play 'another ver' since it was never released in a port/addon.

the way to tell is that it says "Another Ver." underneath the logo on the bootup screen

250px-Mushihimesamafutariblacklabel(anotherver).jpg

the warning screen on bootup also says, "for use in all countries except Japan" or something along those lines.

the international version that was produced & released a day after the 360 port came out.

StarCreator · Apr 6, 2015

I was thinking more along the lines of something in the UI being different, since you could very easily splice the wrong title screen (or just not include it in a video) to pass this off as the original game.

SOME-MIST · Apr 6, 2015

I mean yea... if you really wanted, you can prob flash the JPN ver and remove/replace the MFBA sticker on the board.

Maybe it's just me trying to justify the purchase, but personally.. I'd rather own one of the versions that hasn't been ported (and it helps that it's half the price of the JPN ver). The only thing that sucks is you can't really compete in scoring w/ Original and Maniac modes... but I'll prob spend 99% of my time in God mode anyway since I'm still working on that clear.

To Far Away Times · Apr 6, 2015

AlabastreAizo said:
What is it that people love so much about Ketsui? I'm thinking of picking it up for my next shmup.

It's the best of CAVE amped to 11.

Great aesthetics and music, creative bullet patterns, and a wonderful scoring system. One of CAVE's hardest games too, so it'll last you a really long time even if you just play for survival. I give it a [5] out of 5.

bomblord1 · Apr 6, 2015

I thought this thread was about the Destiny parody loot cave game.

Aizo · Apr 6, 2015

You all convinced me. Ordered ketsui last night.

sixteen-bit · Apr 7, 2015

RBMA posted this short doc
http://www.redbullmusicacademy.jp/jp/magazine/short-film-1-up-cart-diggers

First half or so there's a short interview where Manabu Namiki talks about his influences.

Tain · Apr 7, 2015

AlabastreAizo said:
You all convinced me. Ordered ketsui last night.

you won't regret it

sixteen-bit said:
First half or so there's a short interview where Manabu Namiki talks about his influences.

this is so sick.

And there's some seriously pornographic footage of HEY in there.

Aizo · Apr 7, 2015

Once Ketsui arrives, I'll have all the shmups of the past few years I wanted, I think: Caladrius Blaze, Muchimuchi Pork, Pink Sweets, Guwange, DoDonPachi Resurrection, DoDonPachi SaidaiOujou, Deathsmiles, Crimzon Clover, Espgaluda II, and Mushihime-sama Futari. Should I own anything else. This may be better suited for the shmups thread, but oh well.

Should I get the other Deathsmiles?

Seraphis Cain · Apr 7, 2015

AlabastreAizo said:
Once Ketsui arrives, I'll have all the shmups of the past few years I wanted, I think: Caladrius Blaze, Muchimuchi Pork, Pink Sweets, Guwange, DoDonPachi Resurrection, DoDonPachi SaidaiOujou, Deathsmiles, Crimzon Clover, Espgaluda II, and Mushihime-sama Futari. Should I own anything else. This may be better suited for the shmups thread, but oh well.

Should I get the other Deathsmiles?

Do you have Raiden IV Overkill or Under Defeat HD?

shaowebb · Apr 7, 2015

AlabastreAizo said:
Once Ketsui arrives, I'll have all the shmups of the past few years I wanted, I think: Caladrius Blaze, Muchimuchi Pork, Pink Sweets, Guwange, DoDonPachi Resurrection, DoDonPachi SaidaiOujou, Deathsmiles, Crimzon Clover, Espgaluda II, and Mushihime-sama Futari. Should I own anything else. This may be better suited for the shmups thread, but oh well.

Should I get the other Deathsmiles?

YES. I have both and I find that Deathsmiles 2x is way more addictive. Plus it has more memorable stages which is a helluva accomplishment. Seriously buy it. Its fantastic.

Aizo · Apr 7, 2015

Seraphis Cain said:
Do you have Raiden IV Overkill or Under Defeat HD?

Ohhh, I still need Under Defeat! I really, really didn't like Raiden IV Overkill. Got it for free through Japanese PS+, but I deleted it after beating the second loop. I do not think it's a good game. Looping, unpolished BGM that cuts out when it finishes, too much reused content throughout, and largely just boring. That's just me, though. I'm not great at shmups, so I don't really go for high scores. I never really pay attention to how interesting/solid scoring mechanics are. It's just more about the high octane, twitch reflex, aesthetically pleasing experience for me. I didn't like Pink Sweets for the same reason.

shaowebb said:
YES. I have both and I find that Deathsmiles 2x is way more addictive. Plus it has more memorable stages which is a helluva accomplishment. Seriously buy it. Its fantastic.

Thank you. Deathsmiles, while not a amazing shmup, kinda got me into the genre, so I figure I'd like the sequel.

SOME-MIST · Apr 7, 2015

AlabastreAizo said:
Should I get the other Deathsmiles?

eschatos is pretty underrated and worth it imo

shaowebb · Apr 7, 2015

AlabastreAizo said:
Thank you. Deathsmiles, while not a amazing shmup, kinda got me into the genre, so I figure I'd like the sequel.

You won't be sorry. The ring system in Deathsmiles 2x is like a better version of the original's crowns that bounce and split into skulls system. Trust me...you will want to put a ring on loli.

Your lockon in the sequel can target multiple targets and its range is affected by your current item count. Plus you can point blank to get additional items now like Ketsui. Also now ring rewards aren't dependant on enemy type. Normal shots give you red rings to increase the item counter and focus shots give you blue rings to increase the multiplier. Plus if you keep your lockon shot active after killing dudes you can create suicide bullets to farm that will follow you till you drop the lock and cancel them into items.

Due to that last part you get something major that the first game needed...you don't have a hard time recharging between powered up states. Plus the multiplier doesn't reset now after powered up states end...it just counts down which is WAY easier to exploit. Its FAST to rack up score in Deathsmiles 2x and the stages are more packed than ever to reflect and exploit this. Plus you no longer have the whole bouncing and splitting apart of items so you can just grab stuff instead of juggling them all day to grow em. That's a small but VERY awesome change as it lets you focus entirely on the bullets, farming them, and all the rest instead of adding in the additional thing of watching both sides of the screen, the bullets, the enemies AND trying to bounce crowns around till they are worth harvesting. Now just grab and get to it. Since you can get powered up fast, and multipliers last longer you can just go all in on score without a ton of effort and resource management.

Jotamide · Apr 7, 2015

SOME-MIST said:
eschatos is pretty underrated and worth it imo

Abosutely agreed. Escahtos is fantastic.

mdsfx · Apr 7, 2015

What's the going rate if I were to sell my cave games? I have all games playable on an NA 360...

MMP/PS
Ddp res
DDP sdoj
Death smiles
Futari
Galuda 2 bl
Akai katana

STG! · Apr 9, 2015

Uploaded a few Cave replays to my channel recently, mostly Progear but a little MFBL as well!

Progear no Arashi near-ALL play through - My closest attempt at 1CC-ing this game.

Progear no Arashi 116 million score - Not my best score run, but my longest NMNB run (first mistake at the boss on 2-3).

Mushihimesama Futari Black Label Original Mode ALL 600 million - Not the best score (although a new personal best for me!), but I mainly wanted to test some new capture/codec settings for recording and compressing better looking videos. I also used the same settings on the above 116 million Progear run, so far I think it looks much better!

Aizo · Apr 9, 2015

Ketsui arrived in the mail yesterday, and I just got the chance to play it this morning. Holy shit. I really like this. The BGM is fantastic, the bullet patterns are interesting, and it's just a damn solid experience.

I am having a weird issue, though. When I game over, I am sometimes unable to continue. I press start, but nothing happens. This is my newest ps3 controller, and I can pause any time I want, so it doesn't seem like the controller is at fault.. is this some weird glitch? Kinda frustrating to not be able to get past stage three because of it...

linid0t · Apr 9, 2015

AlabastreAizo said:
Ketsui arrived in the mail yesterday, and I just got the chance to play it this morning. Holy shit. I really like this. The BGM is fantastic, the bullet patterns are interesting, and it's just a damn solid experience.

I am having a weird issue, though. When I game over, I am sometimes unable to continue. I press start, but nothing happens. This is my newest ps3 controller, and I can pause any time I want, so it doesn't seem like the controller is at fault.. is this some weird glitch? Kinda frustrating to not be able to get past stage three because of it...

There's a score attack mode where you can't continue, maybe that's the reason?

Aizo · Apr 9, 2015

I think I just found out. Something about "Doom"? I don't know what initiates doom, though. Whatever it is, it makes it so one cannot continue? That kinda sucks. Haha. I'm only above average at shmups, so that may make things quite difficult for me.

Edit: How can I unlock Continue at Doom?

Coda · Apr 9, 2015

STG! said:
Uploaded a few Cave replays to my channel recently, mostly Progear but a little MFBL as well!

Progear no Arashi near-ALL play through - My closest attempt at 1CC-ing this game.

Progear no Arashi 116 million score - Not my best score run, but my longest NMNB run (first mistake at the boss on 2-3).

Mushihimesama Futari Black Label Original Mode ALL 600 million - Not the best score (although a new personal best for me!), but I mainly wanted to test some new capture/codec settings for recording and compressing better looking videos. I also used the same settings on the above 116 million Progear run, so far I think it looks much better!

Progear is still one of my all time favorite shmups. Really wish there was a port on either the Saturn or PS2.

magnetic · Apr 9, 2015

sixteen-bit said:
RBMA posted this short doc
http://www.redbullmusicacademy.jp/jp/magazine/short-film-1-up-cart-diggers

First half or so there's a short interview where Manabu Namiki talks about his influences.

!!!

I Love Namiki, I especially love his older stuff. Can't wait to watch it.

I'm sure he's going to mention Underground Resistance, the stage 2 tune of Battle Garegga sounds almost identical to their tracks "Jupiter Jazz" and "Hi-tech Jazz":

Battle Garegga Arcade Stage Two Music: https://youtu.be/4kcTXUwViWM

UR - hi tech jazz: https://youtu.be/G9TjCL0CjW0

Underground Resistance - Jupiter Jazz: https://youtu.be/xQv3dCkY2Tk

SOME-MIST · Apr 9, 2015

STG! said:
Uploaded a few Cave replays to my channel recently, mostly Progear but a little MFBL as well!

Progear no Arashi near-ALL play through - My closest attempt at 1CC-ing this game.

Progear no Arashi 116 million score - Not my best score run, but my longest NMNB run (first mistake at the boss on 2-3).

Mushihimesama Futari Black Label Original Mode ALL 600 million - Not the best score (although a new personal best for me!), but I mainly wanted to test some new capture/codec settings for recording and compressing better looking videos. I also used the same settings on the above 116 million Progear run, so far I think it looks much better!

I really have to sit down one of these days and study one of your runs so I can finally get past the 1-all and unlock second loop. you never fail to impress brother.

I think I'll set myself a goal to hit it before the end of 2015 haha

linid0t said:
There's a score attack mode where you can't continue, maybe that's the reason?

precisely this. score attack is used so you can compete via scoring with players (iirc there are online leaderboards for ketsui?) which will limit your credit to one to prevent you from credit feeding.

a large majority of cave games do this for the players that want to play competitively.

SerTapTap · Apr 9, 2015

I think my 360 collection is nearly complete! These came in the mail today, and Akai Katana is coming soon(I already have an english copy but it won't play in my 360):

I know I'm missing the one with the dead robot girl/torn face girl on the cover, but I'm not sure what else (there are a few things I'm not sure if they're earlier versions or what). I'll post my current collection once I get Akai in and hopefully someone can tell me what good stuff I'm missing if any.

I wish I started collecting used first-prints instead of new platinum collections earlier. With these two I found they were the same/only slightly pricier to get the real box art and they're still in great shape. Mushi Mushi/pink sweets was too pricy though, had to go with The Best.

StarCreator · Apr 9, 2015

AlabastreAizo said:
I think I just found out. Something about "Doom"? I don't know what initiates doom, though. Whatever it is, it makes it so one cannot continue? That kinda sucks. Haha. I'm only above average at shmups, so that may make things quite difficult for me.

Edit: How can I unlock Continue at Doom?

Doom is the true last boss. I think you'd know it if you were fighting it.

Ketsui starts you off with a limited number of credits that increase the more you play the game, until eventually you are allowed to credit feed to your heart's content. You can see how many credits you have immediately after the game mode you choose loads, it'll be displayed on the bottom of the screen.

Aizo · Apr 9, 2015

Ah.. hmm. That's a bit annoying. Thanks for the info.

StarCreator · Apr 9, 2015

AlabastreAizo said:
Ah.. hmm. That's a bit annoying. Thanks for the info.

This used to be the norm in the PS2 and earlier eras of STG ports and I honestly wish it stayed that way. Maybe if all the Cave releases used unlockable credits then they wouldn't be written off as games that can be "completed" in under an hour.

Aizo · Apr 9, 2015

I guess it'll force me to play better, so that's good.

STG! · Apr 9, 2015

LUCKY n WILD said:
Progear is still one of my all time favorite shmups. Really wish there was a port on either the Saturn or PS2.

Yeah, I hear you there, when I bought a supergun it was one of the first games I really wanted to own although I waited years until I finally bought it, haha!

Although if I did have to pick a system for a port to be on (around the time the game was released), it would probably be the DC. I think that system would've handled the game far better than the Saturn just by judging the Mars Matrix DC port. PS2 should be able to handle it although I can't think of a CPS2 port on the console that I played to compare.

SOME-MIST said:
I really have to sit down one of these days and study one of your runs so I can finally get past the 1-all and unlock second loop. you never fail to impress brother.

I think I'll set myself a goal to hit it before the end of 2015 haha

Thanks man! If you need any specific strats (especially on the first loop) drop me a line/PM, I can put something together for certain sections you're having difficulties with. I'd like to do an annotated video next and explain what's going on and what I'm doing in more detail, maybe if I hit the ALL or my next major high score increase (or both!). Or maybe do an annotated video series on the game and making each video focus on a specific stage/boss, something like that!

The tough thing to explain when watching a Progear run is you never have the same run twice: the random elements and being able to improvise is a big part of the game, and this becomes even more crucial in the second loop with the suicide bullets and the boss attacks, which will switch to the next attack much quicker and more frequently layer with the previous attack. But the vids do give you good insight on how to deal with certain spots/bullet patterns/bosses.

sixteen-bit · Apr 9, 2015

As a 2001 release, Progear was probably too late for Saturn. An Arika PS2 port would've been rad though.

I think the only home port Progear got was for Japanese cell phones. There's a little insert promoting it with my Espgaluda, lol.

Coda · Apr 9, 2015

sixteen-bit said:
As a 2001 release, Progear was probably too late for Saturn. An Arika PS2 port would've been rad though.

I think the only home port Progear got was for Japanese cell phones. There's a little insert promoting it with my Espgaluda, lol.

Haha same, probably is a horrible cellphonized port.

These days I get my Progear fix on the go through MAME on my Galaxy Note 4 (the large screen is quite nice). I use the Darkstalkers PS2 pad through a USB converter to play with a controller. It's quite nice considering but it's never like playing the same game on a CRT with legit scanlines so I always wanted a port.

True about the DC. The DC could've housed so many Cave classics of that era.

Vigilant Gambit · Apr 9, 2015

sixteen-bit said:
RBMA posted this short doc
http://www.redbullmusicacademy.jp/jp/magazine/short-film-1-up-cart-diggers

First half or so there's a short interview where Manabu Namiki talks about his influences.

I need a recording of that event.

And my emotions throughout that video. My god.

Ketsui is the game that got me into bullet hell STGs.

SOME-MIST · Apr 9, 2015

STG! said:
Thanks man! If you need any specific strats (especially on the first loop) drop me a line/PM, I can put something together for certain sections you're having difficulties with. I'd like to do an annotated video next and explain what's going on and what I'm doing in more detail, maybe if I hit

Might have to take you up on that. Tho I usually lose a random life or two, my major problem areas are stage 5 intro, sometimes the s5 midboss, and ofc the final boss which I mostly bomb spam to death on the 2nd/3rd phase. Might just take some practice tbh.

I still have to sometimes use a bomb on the 3rd phase s3 boss too tho I've somewhat got a method that allows me to no miss no bomb the boss 1 out of every 3 or so tries.

I still use bolt + rivet and can never get the stream on the popcorn enemies at the end of s1 and I think thats cause of the ship I choose. Still have yet to hit 20mil (highest is 17) but I've read that it's much easier when you unlock the loop.

Aizo · Apr 11, 2015

What do I need to do to unlock infinite continues in Ketsui? I don't like getting far and starting over. Just feels like a waste of time...

Tain · Apr 11, 2015

if you keep starting from the beginning and use no continues at all your attempts will get you further and further over time!

I actually didn't know the Ketsui ports had limited continues, I think that's pretty cool.

Sir Ilpalazzo · Apr 12, 2015

I don't know, I'm pretty sure you unlock unlimited continues really quickly in that game. I didn't feel like it'd be an issue.

I kind of wish the port had an option to disable continues if you want. It'd be nice to not have to quit out after failing instead of having to get around the "continue?" screen.

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