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(10-14-2007,
07:23 PM)
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#101
Anyone who wants a 60 gig, my casino's Sony store (not run by Sony, but by us) still has 60 or so. The problem is they're very overpriced (I think we now have them at the original MSRP). The only people who buy them are casino player's club members, who buy them with their points. But if anyone's ever desperate for one, we have them, and those 60 will probably last us another 6 months to a year.
Or you could try Ebay. |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
01:21 AM)
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#104
PC World says the system will have a matte finish, no PS2 BC, and PS1 BC via emulation, wtf?
I dunno about it, the 40GB will only make people want to get the 60GB model instead, i can't see how this is new model is going to fair any better than the 20GB one cept the price |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
01:25 AM)
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#105
Originally Posted by BulletSmoke:
As for the 60GB PS3, you can still find some, but they are becoming much harder to find in my case. I'm not even seeing a lot of 80GB PS3 consoles, so I wonder if Sony is doing something we don't know about. |
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Banned in less than 24 hours...
(10-15-2007,
01:26 AM)
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#106
Originally Posted by BulletSmoke:
Yes, a rather minor consideration to be sure... |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
01:43 AM)
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#107
Originally Posted by LJ11:
Not really a fan of these movie pack ins. You buy a Wii and you get Wii Sports. Buy a 360 and you get arcade games or Forza 2/Marvel UA. Buy a PS3 and you get....the worst Spiderman movie? They should be packing in Resistance or a $20 PSN card or something gaming related. |
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Banned in less than 24 hours...
(10-15-2007,
01:48 AM)
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#109
Originally Posted by dynamitejim:
It's the weakest of the 3 but... Spiderman 3 TOTAL LIFETIME GROSSES Domestic: $336,530,303 37.8% + Foreign: $553,970,022 62.2% -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- = Worldwide: $890,500,325 |
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Law of the West
(10-15-2007,
01:50 AM)
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#111
Quote:
I have to agree, but they do want to remind folks that it plays Blu-Ray movies as well. I remember a poll from a while back that said something like 3/4 people who purchased a PS3 had no idea that it had a BR player. The best thing to do would have been to include both. |
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(10-15-2007,
01:59 AM)
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#112
Doesn't matter how cheap it is if there's still fuck-all for software...
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Member
(10-15-2007,
02:03 AM)
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#113
Originally Posted by dynamitejim:
I think Sony wants people who buy a PS3 to know it plays blu-ray movies and let everyone see the difference for themselves. Also, Spiderman 3 may be more mass market appeal (not a single PS3 game except Ratchet & Clank Future to an extent can appeal to the mass market or all ages). |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
02:13 AM)
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#114
Originally Posted by BoilersFan23:
Heavenly Sword isn't exactly good for this idea, though. I wonder how damaging an M-rated bundle would be, to be honest. At least some of these kids (meaning 14, 15, 16) know well enough that they can get their parents to go to the store with them some Saturday and greenlight the purchase (the store could always sell to the parent and meet its obligation, right?). Surely, some parents will say no, and that's fine. But I'll bet some parents might be persuaded to do it, and Resistance is quality PS3 software. I just don't buy that all these younger-than-17s are going to be so virgin to our society that they can't handle R:FoM, or that parents are so unsure of their minors' ability to tolerate such imagery. |
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hello friends
(10-15-2007,
02:19 AM)
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#116
Originally Posted by schuelma:
Exactly what I was thinking as well. If they don't treat it like the 20GB model, they'll be fine. |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
02:38 AM)
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#117
Originally Posted by Tiktaalik:
Well they're already doing that. |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
02:45 AM)
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#118
I have a noob question:
is it possible for the cell to emulate PS2 games? I know PS2 games were developed on specialised hardware (GS+EE) but can the all-mighty, all powerfull CELL BE emulate a PS2 game perfectly? it is said that the Cell is programming language neutral or something like that. but hey, i'm a noob right. of course the RSX should join in the fun as well... |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
02:46 AM)
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#119
Originally Posted by BoilersFan23:
They're packing it into the starter pack in Europe. I don't think they should bundle it because they need to focus on future and current titles. Resistance is great, but it's almost a year-old. |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
02:50 AM)
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#120
Originally Posted by the_id:
Yes it's possible but would have to be done the way 360 does it. For Sony's library of PS2 titles that would be a huge time investment. They decided it wasn't worth it. |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
02:54 AM)
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#121
Originally Posted by Darkpen:
EDIT: Where can I buy one online that ships overseas? VG+ is carrying 80 GB SKU only. Last edited by Operations : 10-15-2007 at 03:25 AM. |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
02:55 AM)
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#122
Originally Posted by angelfly:
wasn't there an interview that said they'll initially use Hardware for their BC to be followed with hardware+software BC then to be followed with complete software BC. I remember it from one the sony exec interviews. so thats moving from 60GB US PS3 -> 60GB EU PS3 / 80 GB US PS3 --> ??????40GB PS3 |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
02:57 AM)
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#124
Originally Posted by angelfly:
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Member
(10-15-2007,
03:04 AM)
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#125
Originally Posted by the_id:
Not that I know of but then again I wouldn't count on it because apparently backwards compatibility isn't as important to them now as it was before.
Originally Posted by kay:
Well I'm just going from what they've said recently. I personally think the PS3 could handle full software emulation but then again I'm not one of the engineers working on it so there may be more complicated things preventing it. |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
03:12 AM)
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#126
the japanese firmware team are quite talented. remember, when the PS3 was just released people cried when PS2 games were not upscaled, no DVD upscaling. A few months later, i believe it was firmware 1.6, there was DVD, PS2 and PS1 upscaling. Not only that, the EU 60GB PS3s had almost 90% BC via software and hardware.
I maybe a fanboy who has blind faith in a corporation that barely knows i exist, but going by the track record of the PS3 firmware team and how regular their updates are, i believe it is possible for them to implement full software BC. Now, Sony PR said BC is not important. It can either mean a) they are not going to go into it again or b) it'll be coming, but its just not their main priority ie only a small team of programers would work on it. I'm hoping its option b) because i need another PS3 for my family. Wii is fun, but some of the kids are teenagers and they love their JRPGs on the PS2. furhthermore, waggle on the wii is too much of a novelty to these kids. they also didn't grow up with mario. |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
03:14 AM)
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#127
Originally Posted by angelfly:
I wouldn't listen to what they say, they'd never say that they would include emulation in the 40gb units down the road now, they want the other models to sell as well. And people would likely wait for that to come. It's just like announcing a price cut a month before it goes into effect... And people believing something like "we have no plans to cut the price".. |
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Gas Guzzler
(10-15-2007,
03:16 AM)
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#128
Originally Posted by the_id:
FW 1.8 was upscaling. FW 1.5 was basic image quality fixes. But you should realize there is a difference in difficulty between emulating a complex GPU like the GS, and basic scaling fixes for PS1/PS2 games. Even the Emotion Engine is the "easy" part of PS2 emulation, and the 50/50 SW emulator isn't perfect. |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
03:16 AM)
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#129
Originally Posted by Lo-Volt:
Anyway, I'm really curious about what Sony's pricing strategy may be outside the 40GB model pricing. I almost thought the 80GB would drop to $500, but with the huge signs at GS saying $599.99 currently and no word about it, I'm really unsure. They really need to ditch that price. I'm also curious as to the color PS3 the U.S. will get. I'm assuming black, but to an extent, it wouldn't be too bad of an idea to release a white SKU IMO. |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
03:22 AM)
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#130
Instead of bundling a specific game and worrying so much about which game will appeal the most, they should do it like they did the Blu-ray offers where you get a choice. So they give Spiderman as the physical pack-in in the box and then give you one of five PS3 games to choose from to get as your included game.
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Member
(10-15-2007,
03:27 AM)
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#131
Originally Posted by Fatghost:
thanks for correction. yes, its true that the BC emulator isn't perfect. but note that they were able to do it in a few months. heck even before the console reached 1 year. they could've have either anticipated it (months or maybe even years earlier?) and had teams working on it even before the console was released or they're really really talented and they were able to make one in a few months after release. but either way, sony knows their hardware better. and some of their engineers are quite talented. furthermore, there is continuing work with experementing with the Cell by IBM. ok, my ranting needs to stop. i'll just summarise my argument: i believe 40GB PS3 will have SW BC. It won't be perfect when first released (maybe less than 40%?) but gradual firmware updates (~once a month) should hopefully increase the BC to around 75% (an underestimate hopefully). mainly because (a)?sony listens to their bitchy fans. (b)Cell is a beast and IBM could be helping sony (c) a talented firmware team or maybe a proactive one and (d) i'm a blind fanboy. |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
03:37 AM)
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#134
Originally Posted by BoilersFan23:
I see your point, but a lot of video gamers and their parents and casuals shop at places like GameStop, which takes a lot more of video gaming money than it used to five years ago, doesn't it? And I wonder how a 12-year-old's parents would react to their child asking for a $400 or $500 item out of principle, compared to someone older, or someone who saved up for it on their own from some afterschool hours' worth of employment. And besides Ratchet, what games are there beyond the ubiquitous (i.e. they're more likely to own a PS2 and can get it for that console) licensed games that would really appeal to gamers so young? |
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Gas Guzzler
(10-15-2007,
03:39 AM)
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#135
Originally Posted by the_id:
Well, I don't know if the 40 GB will ever see PS2 emulation or not. I'm not an engineer and I don't know. Maybe it can, maybe it can't. I do know that reading up on the situation, the GS has some issues that make it difficult to emulate (the way it renders things and the embedded DRAM) and that there is the possibility that the PS3 - though a powerful machine - just doesn't have to raw bandwidth to emulate these small but important parts of the GS. Sony may have a solution. I don't like to have faith though, I like to look at evidence and what I've been able to research about this (albeit with my limited technical understanding) makes SW emulation of the GS on PS3 seem very difficult. Adding to this is Sony's PR distancing itself from BC and downplaying it... Well, I'm hoping for a pleasant surprise but in the meantime, I'm just going to assume Sony's being honest when they say they don't care about BC anymore. |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
03:49 AM)
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#136
Originally Posted by Fatghost:
EE (Emotion Engine) core = The PS2's main processor which runs 8x faster than the PSX processor with registers twice the size (128bits) altho in general cases only 64 bits are used, where the PSX uses 32bits as a general rule. The other difference is the R5900 (EE) has many extra instructions, multimedia instructions and extra co processors which arent in the PSX, so we have a processor thats 8x faster and at least 3 times more complex. IOP (In Out Processor) core = This is identicle to the PSX core, it is the same chip with a few extra dma channels, it is also clocked 3mhz higher than the PSX but we can assume its basically the same chip. VU (Vertex Unit) = The PS2's equivilant to the graphics engine on the PSX, it is seen as an extra processor (yes another one) altho the PSX one was 4 times slower than the VU and also the VU has its own memory and run independantly from the main CPU where as the PSX one is cpu dependant. This is the main reason for the slow 3d games on PCSX2, intense vertex processing done by the game using 4 32bit vertex's which makes up the 128bit floating point registers that it contains. This unit also processes textures and 2d information on a part of the unit called the VIF which unpacks texture data and sends it to the GS. SPU2 (Sound Processing Unit 2) = This is literally, the SPU found on the PSX but doubled, so there is now 2 of them to handle GS (Graphics Synthesiser) = This is the PS2 version of the GPU, which does a simular job, but has the ability to do anti aliasing and alsorts of other fancy things, altho some were rarely used, this does all the vertex/texture mapping that you see on the screen. SIF = Now this didnt appear on the PSX, it connects the IOP to the EE and is used to transfer data between the 2, as the DVD, sound etc is situated on the IOP side, pretty much layed out as the PSX was. Altho its function seems simple, its required that we emulate it which takes extra time as expected. These are the main, intesively used parts of the PS2 which are used in the emulator, as you can tell from the comparison that the PS2 is much more complex than the PSX and requires a lot more time. To add insult to injury on the real machine a lot of work will be done asynchronously, so say while the VU is doing something the processor will be doing something else, but unfortunately we cant do this, so we have to run 1 and pause the rest, when thats done let something else do the work and so on, and running all that processing power on a single CPU is very very intensive work. Now take all that and throw on at least FIVE times the requirements due to the emulation needing to process the original data and convert to ix86 So it's basically just a lot more complex to get going than PS1 was, it doesn't seem like the Graphics Synthesizer alone is the thing holding them back. |
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Gas Guzzler
(10-15-2007,
04:05 AM)
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#137
Originally Posted by kay:
IIRC the problem is about the RSX's bandwidth being 22.1 GB while the GS had 48 GB memory bandwidth. |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
04:08 AM)
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#138
They might be strategically absorbing all this feedback before an official US announcement in order to provide the most soothing prognosis they can IMO.
Edit: They could say "Stay tuned for future announcements in regards to PS2 backwards compatibility for key titles!" Last edited by ThePeter : 10-15-2007 at 04:18 AM. |
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Gas Guzzler
(10-15-2007,
04:10 AM)
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#139
Originally Posted by ThePeter:
I'm sure SCEA is watching the internet for blowback, but they probably don't have a lot of room to adjust their strategy around it. |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
04:20 AM)
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#140
Call me crazy, but I think it's still too expensive.
If they really wanted to get aggressive, they should have gone to $299 or less, by taking out more stuff. Really go for the bare minimal - like 1 usb port, (and introduce attachable usb hub later on), no wifi, unified AV port including HDMI, and sell their prioritary HDMI cable separately. That, I think, will fly off the shelves, pronto... even w/ no backward compatibility, and I can't imagine Sony won't try anything to do apply software emulation at some point for these, anyhow... at least in MS style. If anyone knows PS1 and PS2 architecture and all - its Sony themselves. Last edited by lachesis : 10-15-2007 at 04:33 AM. |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
04:30 AM)
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#141
Originally Posted by ThePeter:
The best way to sooth perceptions or concerns from here is to tell us that the 80 gb unit is here to stay as the system of choice for those that want everything (BC). Losing BC in one unit was very dissapointing, but what happens from here could turn this situation to being acceptable or non-acceptable in my opinion. SCEE says that the 40 gb model will be the only one moving forward, but I don't believe it. When the 20 gb sku was discontinued here in the US due to the public's favor towards the 60 gb, the word from Sony was:
Quote:
It made sense then and it makes sense now to keep 2 sku's. Early reports from Europe also appear that the 60 gb unit is in far more demand than the 40 (although it could be mentioned that the 60 comes with 2 games over there). A quick look at Amazon UK's sales chart supports this notion. Next-gen article regarding the 20 gb's termination in the US: http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?op...=5194&Itemid=2 |
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Gas Guzzler
(10-15-2007,
04:32 AM)
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#142
Originally Posted by Guy Legend:
I'm pretty sure the public didn't "favor" the 60 GB over the 20 GB so much because the public preferred the higher tech option, but more that Sony just shipped significantly more 60 GBs than 20 GBs. More bought the 60 GB because there was a much larger supply of 60 GBs. Plus, a 2 sku strategy doesn't necessarily mean a BC and non BC mobo strategy...Sony could always move forward on the non BC mobo for everything, save the 25 bucks per unit, and just focus on adding in pack in games/bigger HDDs in the "high end" sku. That enhances the bottom line better than producing two mobo versions. |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
04:37 AM)
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#143
IMHO, one of the big reasons that 60g was more popular than 20g was... that due to the fact that the ones who bought the machine early on were all ready for the all the high-tech gadgets. Early adopters, who probably have enough money and already have HDTV and all, and preferred to have the fully fleshed out version, not some tard pack. (sorry) I think the ones who bought PS3 so far are the hardcore market... and they now need to appeal to the masses.
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Member
(10-15-2007,
04:49 AM)
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#146
Originally Posted by lachesis:
At launch the 20GB was never available long enough to actually gauge consumer demand. Some more units fell out of the pipe to scattered retail locations some months later after PS3 demand had dropped in general, but there was never really a time where the 20GB and 60GB were selling everywhere side-by-side, and that's the only way to really judge the demand. It is generally considered at this point that reducing losses is the real reason that Sony pulled the 20GB. I and several other GAF members tried really hard at launch to find 20GB units but it was absolutely impossible. Some of us settled for 60GB units that we didn't really want. |
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Member
(10-15-2007,
04:50 AM)
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#147
Originally Posted by lachesis:
I agree. But there are still plenty of hard-core gamers, people interested in higher end models, and others that would like to play PS2 games that there should be enough interest in keeping the 80 gb model as is. I think the XB 360 elite has proven that there is a market for a higher end system (and there's perhaps less of a difference between the pro/elite than 40gb/80 gb PS3).
Originally Posted by Fatghost:
That's a possiblity, but that would entail that Sony completely throws BC away and turns their back on a lot of Playstation fans. I don't think they will do that. The extra revenue ($100) that a 80 gb brings in over a 40 gb more than makes up for any cost of implementing the GS chip. Yes, they could save a little more dough by removing the GS, but BC is a big selling point by itself to spend the extra cash on the 80 gb. Bottom line is that I think they would sell a lot more 80 gb units with BC rather than without it. The PS2 is still going strong and having the extra incentive for these owners (old and new) to eventually step up to the PS3 is still quite valuable. But we shall see what happens. I'm looking forward to the SCEA announcement to see what they say about this. |
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The 'H' stands for hentai.
(10-15-2007,
05:03 AM)
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#148
I think a bigger question would be if the newer 80 gig models will be sporting the 40 gig model improvements like reduced heat production, lower watt usage, and less weight while maintaining BC, 4 USB ports, and Memory Card slots or if it will be removed to have a standard motherboard across all the systems.
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Member
(10-15-2007,
05:07 AM)
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#149
Originally Posted by Hcoregamer00:
I honestly doubt if any 80GB units are in production right now, there are probably enough in the pipe to last the rest of the year. I really think that the 80GB will only go back in production if consumer demand is strong enough. If they decide to keep a BC unit around, I'm sure it will get revised when it goes back into production. The PS2 went through many motherboard revisions. |
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