NeoGAF

icecream · (11-13-2007, 08:28 AM)

Originally Posted by Bebpo

I don't see how this can continue. Japanese game companies were already barely getting by on PS2 sales.

Are you sure? Because there are a lot of Japanese PC/Console companies that sell at most 50K a lifetime and they're still doing well.

Originally Posted by msdstc

will they sell? NOPE and I'm pretty sure RE5 is exclusive.

It will be released for both the 360 and PS3 in Japan.

And one comparison of note is Bladestorm, which is currently not selling as much on the 360 compared to the PS3 version. I suspect this will hold true for VF5 and Gundam Musou as well, at least in Japan.

Dahbomb · (11-13-2007, 08:30 AM)

Originally Posted by Bebpo

If Dynasty Warriors outsells SMG, but still "bombs" I think all 3 hardware companies are going to be hitting the panic button in terms of consoles.

...though at least Nintendo has Wiifit/Smash. If for some reason those don't cause the hardware to take off, they are just as fucked as Sony/MS on the console front.

Yeah hitting the panic attack in Japan but not anywhere else. Software sales on consoles are still at an all time high in US and Europe. In Japan console sales have stagnated pretty much since the launch of the DS.

And RE5 is NOT PS3 Japan exclusive.

Fafalada · 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by JoshuaJSlone

He wasn't saying they should be expected to sell as well on PS3. He was responding to a post claiming no appealing PS3 games in Japan, which he disagreed with by showing several very successful series which have already showed up on PS3 to little effect.

Ignoring hardware sales for a moment - PS2 had a lot more market appealing software in its first year then PS3 does, and software sales/attach rates were still abysmally bad - especially compared to PS1 iterations (after all, the "they just buy it for movies" was originally spawned in that year).
What I recall, it wasn't until an original IP success (Onimusha) that software noticeably picked up.

Ultimately he was just stating the obvious (PS3 doing far worse overall then PS2 in Japan) - aside for that, I don't think generational switch trends have changed much.
But since you're here, can I bother you for an answer about R5 and HSG4 numbers - from what I recall R5 didn't reach 500k before greatest hits, and is that HSG4 number really without GH also?

Originally Posted by Bebpo

Resolution is still a bit too low for TV output and it's got dithering/jaggies everywhere.

Doesn't that exactly describe GC/PS2 though? :P

wazoo · (11-13-2007, 08:42 AM)

Originally Posted by Bebpo

Nah, not good enough. Resolution is still a bit too low for TV output and it's got dithering/jaggies everywhere. Plus it has to be a handheld where the software sells like crazy DS/PS2 style.

I disagree with that. Graphics are good enough considering we have seen many times that Japan does not care as much as us about 3D graphics.

Bebpo · 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by Dahbomb

Yeah hitting the panic attack in Japan but not anywhere else. Software sales on consoles are still at an all time high in US and Europe. In Japan console sales have stagnated pretty much since the launch of the DS.

And RE5 is NOT PS3 Japan exclusive.

The issue is not about the games with worldwide appeal. Companies like Capcom will do fine this gen because they produce games in genre that are accepted worldwide.

Guess what we won't be seeing from Capcom this gen on next-gen hardware? Breath of Fire VI.

The discussion mainly focuses around genre that are big in Japan and not anywhere else in the world. Rpgs, strategy games, life simulations, shmups, 2d fighters, 2d games in general, music games, weird & wacky games. People who like these genre do not want to see them die on the console front and end up on handheld or nothing.

Originally Posted by wazoo

I disagree with that. Graphics are good enough considering we have seen many times that Japan does not care as much as us about 3D graphics.

Eh, I dunno how receptive they'd be to less than PS1 resolution on their hdtvs....

Originally Posted by john tv

PS3 is never going to see the success PS2 saw; I dunno why this is so hard for some people to believe. Times have changed, markets have changed. PS3 will be moderately successful in Japan but it's never going to come anywhere close to approaching Wii, and MGS4 and FFXIII aren't going to change that.

I saw a few people buying the new PS3s yesterday, BTW. Glad to see them finally moving a bit!

No system is going to be the PS2 this gen unless you're counting handhelds and then obviously DS is. Unless there is some AC/NSMB type shoot-off with the in the next year, the chances of Wii/PS3/X360 being the "sure hit" console for companies to put their major franchises is gone.

Honestly 5 years from now I expect the console market in Japan to be like 30/35/35 in market share unless SOMETHING takes off on one of the consoles and makes it a hit for the gaming crowd.

Truespeed · (11-13-2007, 08:50 AM)

Originally Posted by wazoo

I disagree with that. Graphics are good enough considering we have seen many times that Japan does not care as much as us about 3D graphics.

Not so according to the Minister of 3D Graphics in the Japanese parliament.

AnimeTheme · (11-13-2007, 09:56 AM)

Originally Posted by Jonnyram

There is no longer a single platform that can maintain the sales that those games enjoyed. Had Koei released the game for PS2, the sales would likely have been higher - that pretty much sums up this console war. The market is different and developers need to adapt. I don't see games like MGS4 and FFXIII coming close to their PS2 predecessors, because they're treading the same path and not adapting.

That's why FF13 is not a single "game" anymore but a project which includes several games.

JoshuaJSlone · (11-13-2007, 03:58 PM)

Originally Posted by Fafalada

But since you're here, can I bother you for an answer about R5 and HSG4 numbers - from what I recall R5 didn't reach 500k before greatest hits, and is that HSG4 number really without GH also?

My PS2 info isn't very full, and the main English source I use for a quick check cuts off at 200K LTD so a lot of detail is missing.

Checking the Famitsu 2000 Top 100, though, RRV was at 612K at the end of its first year. Seems pretty early on for a rerelease, and usually they list those separately anyway.

Looking back at HSG4, I'm not sure what total the pre-budget version reached, but it looks like it stayed in the top 30 for a few months, and was at 1.03 million the week before it dropped from the top 30. I didn't go further to see if it'd come back.

Pureauthor · (11-13-2007, 04:09 PM)

Originally Posted by Bebpo

The discussion mainly focuses around genre that are big in Japan and not anywhere else in the world. Rpgs, strategy games, life simulations, shmups, 2d fighters, 2d games in general, music games, weird & wacky games. People who like these genre do not want to see them die on the console front and end up on handheld or nothing.

Actually...

spwolf · (11-13-2007, 04:15 PM)

Originally Posted by Lightning

I can't wait to see the Japan sales for VF5 and Gundam Musou on the 360, that will be something.

And the PS3 is not the only console struggling in Japan, they all are. When Mario Galaxy, the Wii's biggest title of the year, only provides a boost of 10k first week then there is definitely something wrong. There is little Sony/Nintendo can do about this, Japan as a market is changing and I think there is very strong evidence to support this.

I am sure Sony and Square Enix are a little concerned right now but there is not a lot they can do about it.

If 170k first day sales are true, thats not actually half bad... was 150k for HGS best on PS3 so far?

JoshuaJSlone · (11-13-2007, 04:34 PM)

Originally Posted by spwolf

If 170k first day sales are true, thats not actually half bad... was 150k for HGS best on PS3 so far?

I don't know what it's first day was, but Famitsu has 176K as its first week. Gundam Musou was a 171K first week.

Bebpo · (11-13-2007, 05:09 PM)

Originally Posted by JoshuaJSlone

I don't know what it's first day was, but Famitsu has 176K as its first week. Gundam Musou was a 171K first week.

Well DW6 got 3 less days than those other games because of the Sunday launch. Otherwise it probably would have done 200-300k and been the highest selling opener on PS3.

Riskbreaker23 · (11-13-2007, 05:38 PM)

Originally Posted by Bebpo

Yeah, actually I think in Japan a one console future would work and be the best bet. For the US/Euro not so much.

I actually think what might be the eventual solution to all this is a next-gen handheld that can do PS2/GC level of graphics and has the ability to play on your tv. Then the franchises that are have a solid following but don't sell enough to justify production costs on a console can get released for this handheld and gamers can just play it on their tv. This might be the ideal solution for most of the rpg companies from the PS2 gen.

so you are saying the psp is the ideal solution because it can do all that right now.

spwolf · (11-13-2007, 05:41 PM)

Originally Posted by JoshuaJSlone

I don't know what it's first day was, but Famitsu has 176K as its first week. Gundam Musou was a 171K first week.

it was released on Sunday. So first week = first day in this case.

InterMoniker · (11-13-2007, 05:42 PM)

It's on like donkey kong!

spwolf · (11-13-2007, 05:46 PM)

Sales of Sony's PS3 video games console surged 300 per cent after the company released a cheaper model in Japan last week, according to leaked survey data.

Sony Japan introduced the new PS3 model with a 40GB hard disk drive on November 11. One day later, local PS3 weekly sales figures had soared from an average of 16,000 to almost 66,000.

The figures are contained in preliminary data from the latest edition of a regular survey by Japan-based video games publisher and market survey firm, Enterbrain.

The substantial surge in weekly sales comes despite the release of the console occurring on the last day of the week. It is unclear what proportion of the sales resulted from pre-orders.

PS3 takes top spot
The huge increase in sales enabled the PS3 to take the top spot in full-sized console sales from Nintendo's Wii console for the first time. The Wii typically sells less than 35,000 per week in Japan, although sales have risen to 37,500 following the release of the popular game, Super Mario Galaxy.

The 40GB unit retails for $100 less than older models. The new console also lacks some features, including a flash memory device reader, two of the original four USB ports, and backwards compatibility with PS2 games. The Japanese version of the 40GB PS3 features a new 'Ceramic White' case color

Source:
http://www.texyt.com/40GB+Sony+PS3+s...+Famitsu+00120

PS3 almost the double of Wii sales?
I think this will be interesting. I need to buy an beer for Segata :D

Pureauthor · (11-13-2007, 05:47 PM)

The rivers, they are a'intersecting?

schuelma · (11-13-2007, 05:48 PM)

Originally Posted by spwolf

Source:
http://www.texyt.com/40GB+Sony+PS3+s...+Famitsu+00120

PS3 almost the double of Wii sales?
I think this will be interesting. I need to buy an beer for Segata :D

I hope Tabris is allowed in this weeks MC thread.

Y2Kev · (11-13-2007, 05:49 PM)

Originally Posted by schuelma

I hope Tabris is allowed in this weeks MC thread.

he's, very sadly, banned

JoshuaJSlone · (11-13-2007, 05:50 PM)

Originally Posted by spwolf

it was released on Sunday. So first week = first day in this case.

Yeeeeah, but that doesn't tell us what MNG5's first day was. Though 150K the first day with 26K in the following three days seems very unlikely.

Jokeropia · (11-13-2007, 05:50 PM)

Originally Posted by Bebpo

Honestly 5 years from now I expect the console market in Japan to be like 30/35/35 in market share unless SOMETHING takes off on one of the consoles and makes it a hit for the gaming crowd.

Err… for this to happen, something completely unprecedented would have to take off for both PS3 and 360.

Originally Posted by spwolf

it was released on Sunday. So first week = first day in this case.

HSG wasn't, and that what's you asked about.

schuelma · (11-13-2007, 05:51 PM)

Originally Posted by Y2Kev

he's, very sadly, banned

Well he needs to be unbanned for this. He's been waiting for this to happen for like 10 months. I say let him have his fun.

PistolGrip · (11-13-2007, 05:51 PM)

Originally Posted by spwolf

Source:
http://www.texyt.com/40GB+Sony+PS3+s...+Famitsu+00120

PS3 almost the double of Wii sales?
I think this will be interesting. I need to buy an beer for Segata :D

Oh Snap!

mandatory gif:

"It has begun!"

gkryhewy · 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by spwolf

Source:
http://www.texyt.com/40GB+Sony+PS3+s...+Famitsu+00120

PS3 almost the double of Wii sales?
I think this will be interesting. I need to buy an beer for Segata :D

That's impressive for PS3 and disappointing for Wii (for mid-November) if both of those numbers are accurate (the way the Wii numbers are mentioned makes it a bit unclear). I doubt it'll really have legs without any major game releases, but impressive first week.

This could be a week where there will be some odd discrepancies between enterbrain and MC - I wonder whether the 'first day' issue will affect them differently due to their differing survey methods.

PistolGrip · (11-13-2007, 05:56 PM)

Originally Posted by gkrykewy

That's impressive for PS3 and disappointing for Wii (for mid-November) if both of those numbers are accurate (the way the Wii numbers are mentioned makes it a bit unclear). I doubt it'll really have legs without any major game releases, but impressive first week.

Well Rachet and DW6 released should give it some legs. Plus GT5 Prologue is coming.

Can we get a more provoking title on this thread? Or perhaps have a new thread with this new info.

mckmas8808 · (11-13-2007, 05:58 PM)

SRG01 · (11-13-2007, 05:59 PM)

Originally Posted by spwolf

Source:
http://www.texyt.com/40GB+Sony+PS3+s...+Famitsu+00120

PS3 almost the double of Wii sales?
I think this will be interesting. I need to buy an beer for Segata :D

Wait, if these were Famitsu numbers, doesn't that mean the MC numbers would be somewhat larger if we're following the trend for the past few weeks? :O

Elios83 · (11-13-2007, 06:00 PM)

Originally Posted by gkrykewy

That's impressive for PS3 and disappointing for Wii (for mid-November) if both of those numbers are accurate (the way the Wii numbers are mentioned makes it a bit unclear). I doubt it'll really have legs without any major game releases, but impressive first week.

Not counting HS this week, they will have Winning Eleven next week, and then GT5 Prologue.
It's not a full assault lineup (but it's not like Wii has a better one with WiiFit the only big shot left this year) but they have things to sustain sales.

JoshuaJSlone · (11-13-2007, 06:02 PM)

Originally Posted by gkrykewy

That's impressive for PS3 and disappointing for Wii (for mid-November) if both of those numbers are accurate (the way the Wii numbers are mentioned makes it a bit unclear).

The Wii numbers are for the week of October 29 - November 4. Based on data from previous years, the normal holiday rampup in sales will probably start to be noticeable the week of November 12 - 18, or possibly the one after.

schuelma · (11-13-2007, 06:02 PM)

Originally Posted by Elios83

Not counting HS this week, they will have Winning Eleven next week, and then GT5 Prologue.
It's not a full assault lineup (but it's not like Wii has a better one with WiiFit the only big shot left this year) but they have things to sustain sales.

Well, I'd argue that Wii has a stronger lineup overall for the holiday season.

RE:UC this week, then Mario and Sonic, then Wii Fit, NiGHTS, Chocobo's Dungeon, then Smash in January.

Looks pretty good to me.

Jokeropia · (11-13-2007, 06:04 PM)

1 year until a crossing of streams is a comparatively long time. Last generation, it happened on GC's launch week:

2001-09-10 - 2001-09-17

PS2: 45,651
GC: 133,719

And again on Smash Bros release week:

2001-11-19 - 2001-11-26

PS2: 37,381
GC: 129,377

Originally Posted by schuelma

Well he needs to be unbanned for this. He's been waiting for this to happen for like 10 months. I say let him have his fun.

Eh, I don't think rampant stupidity makes things more fun.

Originally Posted by PistolGrip

Can we get a more provoking title on this thread? Or perhaps have a new thread with this new info.

There was no special title or extra thread when 360 outsold PS3, so I don't see why.

Elios83 · (11-13-2007, 06:05 PM)

Originally Posted by schuelma

Well, I'd argue that Wii has a stronger lineup overall for the holiday season.

RE:UC this week, then Mario and Sonic, then Wii Fit, NiGHTS, Chocobo's Dungeon, then Smash in January.

Looks pretty good to me.

It's rich for gamers who already have the console, but the only potential KA I see is WiiFit. If Mario did next to nothing to hardware sales I wouldn't expect Mario and Sonic or Chocobo's Dungeon to change that.

gkryhewy · (11-13-2007, 06:08 PM)

Originally Posted by JoshuaJSlone

The Wii numbers are for the week of October 29 - November 4.

Thanks - the PS3 estimate we're talking about here is for the following week, though, correct? So we don't have a Wii estimate yet?

Dragon · (11-13-2007, 06:09 PM)

Originally Posted by Jokeropia

There was no special title or extra thread when 360 outsold PS3, so I don't see why.

The 360 outsold the PS3 by like 1,000, this is almost double (and I realize it's new hardware so it needs to establish a pattern before we go OMG PS3 FTW IN NIPPON) the Wii.

Jokeropia · (11-13-2007, 06:16 PM)

^
Well, I'd say Xbox outselling Playstation in Japan is equally newsworthy even if it's only by a small margin.

Originally Posted by Elios83

It's rich for gamers who already have the console, but the only potential KA I see is WiiFit. If Mario did next to nothing to hardware sales I wouldn't expect Mario and Sonic or Chocobo's Dungeon to change that.

Then why expect Winning Eleven (also on PS2) and GT5P to do more for hardware than Gundam Mosou and MnG?

Segata Sanshiro · (11-13-2007, 06:17 PM)

Originally Posted by spwolf

Source:
http://www.texyt.com/40GB+Sony+PS3+s...+Famitsu+00120

PS3 almost the double of Wii sales?
I think this will be interesting. I need to buy an beer for Segata :D

sp, if you popped into the Media Create threads more often besides when Sony has good news, you'd have seen me say many times that I was hoping both for these streams to cross and that I'd generally like to see more competition, because it makes trying to predict things more fun.

Those are definitely what I would have classified as "best case scenario" numbers for the PS3 price drop, so that's excellent news for them.

Elios83 · (11-13-2007, 06:19 PM)

Originally Posted by Jokeropia

^
Then why expect Winning Eleven (also on PS2) and GT5P to do more for hardware than Gundam Mosou and MnG?

Umm WE is not a killer application anymore in Japan but it will help to sustain sales in November.
GT5 on the contrary could raise sales not including the natural December increase.
But hey we'll see what happens :P

Aggelos · (11-13-2007, 06:20 PM)

Originally Posted by spwolf

Source:
http://www.texyt.com/40GB+Sony+PS3+s...+Famitsu+00120

Go, go, go PS3!!!!! I hope for 8 million units sold by the end of this year (in total).

schuelma · (11-13-2007, 06:22 PM)

Ahh this week will be so much fun for Sales Agers like myself.

Lot of great stuff to look for this week:

PS3 hardware in Japan

Wii hardware in Japan

Galaxy 2nd week s ales

NPD in all its glory- specifically GH3 breakdowns.

Then on Friday 1st day sales for RE:UC in Japan.

JoshuaJSlone · (11-13-2007, 06:27 PM)

Originally Posted by Elios83

It's rich for gamers who already have the console, but the only potential KA I see is WiiFit. If Mario did next to nothing to hardware sales I wouldn't expect Mario and Sonic or Chocobo's Dungeon to change that.

Chocobo's Dungeon will be the first FF spinoff on the system, as well as the first Mysterious Dungeon, so it will probably attract some new element. But more importantly is that they're hitting in a fairly short span during the biggest time of the year, so effects could be multiplied. *shrugs* We'll see.

Originally Posted by gkrykewy

Thanks - the PS3 estimate we're talking about here is for the following week, though, correct? So we don't have a Wii estimate yet?

Right. We usually don't hear early rumblings of Famitsu numbers yet; we'll probably hear about the rest tomorrow.

SRG01 · (11-13-2007, 06:31 PM)

Originally Posted by Jokeropia

^
Well, I'd say Xbox outselling Playstation in Japan is equally newsworthy even if it's only by a small margin.
Then why expect Winning Eleven (also on PS2) and GT5P to do more for hardware than Gundam Mosou and MnG?

Because Galaxy has not targetted the audience that now exists on the Wii. It's easy to hope that the Wii userbase has a lot of older Nintendo fans, but it's more realistic that their current base -- like the DS -- has a large chunk of casual players.

JoshuaJSlone · (11-13-2007, 06:32 PM)

Originally Posted by Elios83

Umm WE is not a killer application anymore in Japan but it will help to sustain sales in November.
GT5 on the contrary could raise sales not including the natural December increase.
But hey we'll see what happens :P

Gran Turismo 4 Prologue hit about 750K. Since then four PS2 Winning Eleven games topped that.

Jokeropia · (11-13-2007, 06:35 PM)

Originally Posted by Elios83

GT5 on the contrary could raise sales not including the natural December increase.

Well GT5 Prologue isn't quite GT5, is it? GT4 Prologue sold ~748k compared to ~1066k for GT4. It also had a much smaller start than GT4 with 203k first week compared to 664k for GT4. (GT4 had the shortest legs in the franchise.)

Originally Posted by SRG01

Because Galaxy has not targetted the audience that now exists on the Wii. It's easy to hope that the Wii userbase has a lot of older Nintendo fans, but it's more realistic that their current base -- like the DS -- has a large chunk of casual players.

How is this related to Winning Eleven and GT5P's performance compared to Gundam Mosou and MnG?

Firewire · (11-13-2007, 06:41 PM)

Are they saying that was the number for first day sales of the 40GB (the Sunday) or over the first 3 days? Sorry for the stupid question my coffee maker is still broken, and I feel particularly dense right now in trying to understand this info! :lol

schuelma · (11-13-2007, 06:43 PM)

Originally Posted by Firewire

Are they saying that was the number for first day sales of the 40GB (the Sunday) or over the first 3 days? Sorry for the stupid question my coffee maker is still broken, and I feel particularly dense right now in trying to understand this info! :lol

I believe they are saying that for the entirety of last week, 66K PS3's were sold. That includes one day with the new model, so if the first 6 days were similiar to the previous week, i.e like 2.5 a day, then it sold like 50K on Sunday.

Segata Sanshiro · (11-13-2007, 06:44 PM)

Originally Posted by Firewire

Are they saying that was the number for first day sales of the 40GB (the Sunday) or over the first 3 days? Sorry for the stupid question my coffee maker is still broken, and I feel particularly dense right now in trying to understand this info! :lol

It reads to me like it's the week ending Sunday, which would be the span of time Enterbrain tracks. So the six days prior to the 40 GB launch plus one day of 40 GB sales. Pretty damn huge considering that!

Firewire · (11-13-2007, 06:45 PM)

Originally Posted by schuelma

I believe they are saying that for the entirety of last week, 66K PS3's were sold. That includes one day with the new model, so if the first 6 days were similiar to the previous week, i.e like 2.5 a day, then it sold like 50K on Sunday.

Oh ok, thanx! :)

Kildace · (11-13-2007, 06:48 PM)

It begins, etc, etc.

Great news for HD gamers everywhere, though. Hope it can sustain a high level of sales throughout the holliday season.

Sirolf · (11-13-2007, 06:50 PM)

Originally Posted by spwolf

Source:
http://www.texyt.com/40GB+Sony+PS3+s...+Famitsu+00120

PS3 almost the double of Wii sales?
I think this will be interesting. I need to buy an beer for Segata :D

Good news for the HD market and Sony!!

The videogame market is so interesting with all the big 3 fighting..

Winners= Gamers

Elios83 · (11-13-2007, 06:51 PM)

Originally Posted by Jokeropia

Well GT5 Prologue isn't quite GT5, is it? GT4 Prologue sold ~748k compared to ~1066k for GT4. It also had a much smaller start than GT4 with 203k first week compared to 664k for GT4. (GT4 had the shortest legs in the franchise.)

I think there's a big difference here.
GT5 Prologue is the first next gen game in the series so many will be interested in it just to see the graphics as happened with GT3, but it also introduces a big first: online gaming. Quite a different situation from GT4 Prologue which was a game that only hardcore GT fans would consider to buy.
I think that GT5P will do much better than WE but we'll see I don't have a crystal ball, PS3 in the end had it's killer applications on 11/11 and they worked, these games will help to sustain them (I believe that Prologue could even raise them a bit independently from the natural holyday season boost).