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wsippel
(01-05-2008, 09:31 PM)
Some new info it seems. I don't speak Japanese, so I'll try to recap what I understood from the Google translations:

- Prope is developing for and (partially) funded by Sega.
- Prope will not develop any Sonic titles.
- They have 37 employees right now, plan to increase that number to 50.
- Currently working on a Wii game (?).

There might be more, but I think I'll leave the rest to a Japanese speaking Gafer. I don't want to spread misinformations...

http://www.prope.jp
Last edited by wsippel; 01-05-2008 at 11:37 PM.
Blablurn
Member
(01-05-2008, 09:39 PM)
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if you click the circles you will see photos of the inside of trhe probe bureaus
Linkup
Member
(01-05-2008, 09:47 PM)
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gameplay is broken
Core407
Banned
(01-05-2008, 09:49 PM)
Naka, don't fail me now. Bring SEGA back!
Oblivion
Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
(01-05-2008, 10:10 PM)

Originally Posted by Core407

Naka, don't fail me now. Bring SEGA back!

Forgive me, but Naka couldn't bring back Sega when he was still FULLY affiliated with Sega, so how would he possibly do so now?
Visualante
Member
(01-05-2008, 10:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Oblivion

Forgive me, but Naka couldn't bring back Sega when he was still FULLY affiliated with Sega, so how would he possibly do so now?

Sega doesn't literally stand for Sega the company anymore.

It's more of a metaphor for what Sega used to do, the word Sega stands for mythical enlightenment that many around the World pray returneth.
Tristam
Member
(01-05-2008, 10:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Oblivion

Forgive me, but Naka couldn't bring back Sega when he was still FULLY affiliated with Sega, so how would he possibly do so now?

Naka wasn't well suited for the company figurehead role he was put in.
Scribble
it's probably crabs and fleas
(01-05-2008, 10:52 PM)

Originally Posted by wsippel

- Prope will not develop any Sonic titles.

Haha, better get that one out of the way. LOL.
ethelred
Member
(01-05-2008, 11:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tristam

Naka wasn't well suited for the company figurehead role he was put in.

Correct.

He was a great developer, though, so I'm looking forward to seeing what he's working on.
trinest
(01-05-2008, 11:09 PM)
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- Prope will not develop any Sonic titles.

Kinda disapointed cause then maybe they could of fixed the series. But it's better not to have something so run-down assosicated with a start up.
D-X
Member
(01-06-2008, 02:16 AM)

Originally Posted by Oblivion

Forgive me, but Naka couldn't bring back Sega when he was still FULLY affiliated with Sega, so how would he possibly do so now?

GAF has changed its tune with Naka. First he was all shit, now he's a saviour... fickle, uninformed GAF.

I would hazard a guess that he meant a smaller team with less pressure and more development time would create better quality titles.
ethelred
Member
(01-06-2008, 02:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by D-X

GAF has changed its tune with Naka. First he was all shit, now he's a saviour... fickle, uninformed GAF.

I would hazard a guess that he meant a smaller team with less pressure and more development time would create better quality titles.

There is no GAF Collective. People are not all of one mind on anything here.

My consistent position has always been that Naka was a talented, creative, and productive developer who shares a great deal of responsibility for creating a number of original and excellent games, but that he was not good in the role of overall developmental overseer, executive producing and managing large numbers of projects. Most of the stuff he gets trashed over comes from that era, when he wasn't even making games.

When he was put in that role, right as Sega was beginning its sharpest decline, he gave the okay to lots and lots of poor Sonic games and that was bad for the brand, bad for his team's reputation, and bad for Sega. And he didn't manage overall resources too well and yeah, there were personal conflicts. I'll readily concede he was a poor businessman and showrunner. But he's a great dev and that's why I'm pleased to see him back into the hands' on development role and looking forward to seeing what he does.
AceBandage
Banned
(01-06-2008, 02:24 AM)
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Burning Rangers Wii!
loosus
Banned
(01-06-2008, 02:45 AM)
Actually, Naka was probably a better programmer than he was anything else. If he's on a management level at this new company (which I assume he is), then I wouldn't expect anything particularly better than what he put out at Sega, unless a.) there was someone consistently fucking stuff up at Sonic Team at an alarming rate (which could be true because Sonic Team still sucks) and/or b.) there are some outstanding folks at Prope that can offset Naka.
D-X
Member
(01-06-2008, 04:23 AM)

Originally Posted by ethelred

There is no GAF Collective. People are not all of one mind on anything here.

'GAF' in the context I intended meant a large number of posters, too many to individually list (or remember), not the entire forum.

The only collective I've heard of is when upset Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft fans accuse GAF of being biased against their company. GAF being 100% in favour of anything is pretty much impossible.
Guybrush Threepwood
Banned
(01-06-2008, 04:30 AM)
I really hope they make a 2D Sonic clone.
Mockingbird
Member
(01-06-2008, 09:43 AM)
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If Naka couldn't make a good Sonic game when he was with Sega there's no way he can make a good one when he's with not Sega (unless that other company happens to be named Nintendo).
Segata Sanshiro
(01-06-2008, 09:47 AM)
*whips a ripe tomato at naka*

stay out ya bum
ethelred
Member
(01-06-2008, 09:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mockingbird

If Naka couldn't make a good Sonic game when he was with Sega there's no way he can make a good one when he's with not Sega (unless that other company happens to be named Nintendo).

I seem to recall him making several good Sonic games when he was with Sega.

Shouldn't Nintendo stick with its Arithmetic for Alzheimer's games? That seems to be what they're good at these days. Sonic might be a bit fast for that crowd.
duckroll
mashadar's Nekomimi slave
(01-06-2008, 10:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by wsippel

Some new info it seems. I don't speak Japanese, so I'll try to recap what I understood from the Google translations:

I'll help.

- Prope will not develop any Sonic titles.

Probe is not interested in developing 'sequels' or 'ports'. That's the official company line.

- Currently working on a Wii game (?).

No, Probe is currently developing on 'undetermined platforms' which 'include Wii and other next-generation consoles' and Probe also plans on eventually releasing titles on 'on consumer platforms, PC, portables and cellphones'.

There might be more, but I think I'll leave the rest to a Japanese speaking Gafer. I don't want to spread misinformations...

Thanks, that's a great attitude! We're glad to help when people aren't making up shit. The rest of the information you posted is spot on. :D


Edit: They also say that Probe has no particular preference for genre or graphical base. Based on whatever good ideas the team can come up with, they'll be willing to make a game, be it 2D or 3D. It doesn't matter. But at the same time, the foundation of the graphical style is not to be too realistic. It has to appeal to both kids and adults at the same time.
sprsk
force push the doodoo rock
(01-06-2008, 10:35 AM)
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Prope.
Gwanatu T
Junior Member
(01-06-2008, 02:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by AceBandage

Burning Rangers Wii!

MAKE IT SO! Come on Naka, you've still got some magic left in you. Believe! Please!
PowerSmell
Member
(01-06-2008, 04:20 PM)

Originally Posted by Tristam

Naka wasn't well suited for the company figurehead role he was put in.

Originally Posted by ethelred

There is no GAF Collective. People are not all of one mind on anything here.

My consistent position has always been that Naka was a talented, creative, and productive developer who shares a great deal of responsibility for creating a number of original and excellent games, but that he was not good in the role of overall developmental overseer, executive producing and managing large numbers of projects. Most of the stuff he gets trashed over comes from that era, when he wasn't even making games.

When he was put in that role, right as Sega was beginning its sharpest decline, he gave the okay to lots and lots of poor Sonic games and that was bad for the brand, bad for his team's reputation, and bad for Sega. And he didn't manage overall resources too well and yeah, there were personal conflicts. I'll readily concede he was a poor businessman and showrunner. But he's a great dev and that's why I'm pleased to see him back into the hands' on development role and looking forward to seeing what he does.

I agree. I remember Naka saying one of the reasons he started Prope was because he wanted to get back to working with a smaller team. I think this is an approach that other "big names" in gaming will follow. Isn't what Jaffe did basically the same thing?

I think Naka gets way too much undeserved hate. With Prope I'm confident he will produce something good.
Furoba
Member
(01-06-2008, 04:30 PM)
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This is Sega's way to keep Naka working for them, while avoiding Naka resigning from Sega and jumping ship, and losing a bunch of employees in his wake.

Yu Suzuki was different, he was a well respected Sega employee, but because he burnt out some while ago, they put him aside by giving him a small development team so as not to step on any toes. Anyone know what he's been up recently? The last thing I heard from Digital Rex (?) was Shenmue Online being cancelled, and a arcade game with telepathic fighters being released...
wsippel
(01-06-2008, 04:40 PM)

Originally Posted by duckroll

No, Probe is currently developing on 'undetermined platforms' which 'include Wii and other next-generation consoles' and Probe also plans on eventually releasing titles on 'on consumer platforms, PC, portables and cellphones'.

That's from the Q&A, no? Which wasn't updated since the initial website launch as far as I can tell. Did you click the question mark? I meant the first section in the job offerings:

Wiiタイトル開発に興味のある、
・プログラマー
・モーションデザイナー
・背景デザイナー
・エフェクトデザイナー 急募!

duckroll
mashadar's Nekomimi slave
(01-06-2008, 04:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by wsippel

That's from the Q&A, no? Which wasn't updated since the initial website launch as far as I can tell. Did you click the question mark? I meant the first section in the job offerings:

Oh yeah! It seems the immediate recruiting at the moment is for a Wii title. Didn't see that.
Dascu
(01-06-2008, 04:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by wsippel

That's from the Q&A, no? Which wasn't updated since the initial website launch as far as I can tell. Did you click the question mark? I meant the first section in the job offerings:

I'll translate:

Wiiタイトル開発に興味のある、
・プログラマー
・モーションデザイナー
・背景デザイナー
・エフェクトデザイナー 急募!

=

Wii Sonic Panzer Rangers of Arcadia
- Super-fast Dragons
- Extinguish fires on Airships
- Defeat the Admiral Dr Azelnik
- Waggle mini-games!

404
Member
(01-06-2008, 04:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dascu

Wii Sonic Panzer Rangers of Arcadia
- Super-fast Dragons
- Extinguish fires on Airships
- Defeat the Admiral Dr Azelnik
- Waggle mini-games!

:lol I would so buy that

can't wait to see what he's up to
would love a 2d ds game
kinn
Member
(01-06-2008, 09:16 PM)
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Glad we finally got some new info on what Prope have been up to. Hopefully we wont have to wait just as long to see what they are working on.

I know they said no sequels but Chu Chu Rocket on the Wii FTW!
Hero of Legend
Member
(01-07-2008, 12:03 AM)
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Well I've updated PROPE's Wiki page with the new info and such.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PROPE_Ltd.

Can you see any other new info duckroll?
Oblivion
Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
(01-07-2008, 05:50 AM)

Originally Posted by Segata Sanshiro

*whips a ripe tomato at naka*

stay out ya bum

:lol


So my question is this, if the issue was that Sega wanted to keep Naka, but not bust his balls as some of you claim, why not just give him his own little team within Sega and let him do what he wants, instead of going through the trouble of building this whole other studio?
Night_Trekker
Member
(01-07-2008, 06:06 AM)
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Could this be the game about the "popular bearded character" or was that scrapped?
Sega1991
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(01-07-2008, 06:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by trinest

Kinda disapointed cause then maybe they could of fixed the series. But it's better not to have something so run-down assosicated with a start up.

Like Naka did while he was still at Sega, right? You forget - he was the one who basically gave the first presentation of the Sonic 2006 abomination.

I don't trust this guy. I've heard he's egotistical and xenophobic. He has been responsible for getting people to quit working at Sonicteam because of his attitude.
TreIII
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(01-07-2008, 06:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by Sega1991

Like Naka did while he was still at Sega, right? You forget - he was the one who basically gave the first presentation of the Sonic 2006 abomination.

I don't trust this guy. I've heard he's egotistical and xenophobic. He has been responsible for getting people to quit working at Sonicteam because of his attitude.

Pretty much.

The very reason Artoon exists in the first place was because Naka went all diva, and systematically kicked out the likes of Naoto Oshima and others because he thought they were of no use to him, even though they had more of a say in how Sonic became who he was in the 90s than Naka did, himself.

I suppose I can look forward to seeing if maybe Naka has changed up his act in his time away from the spotlight, but I'm not expecting any miracles. Billy Hatcher was the last game he got to create on his own artistic merit, am I correct?
ethelred
Member
(01-07-2008, 06:55 AM)
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Yup, Naoto Oshima left Sonic Team because Yuji Naka was xenophobic which was why Naka went to America, and no one on Sonic Team liked Naka which is why a bunch of them all left Sonic Team to join Prope with him.

It's all starting to come together now.

Originally Posted by Sega1991

In 1996, Sega of America wanted to use the NiGHTS technology to make a Sonic game for the Sega Saturn (the game being Sonic X-treme). Yuji Naka threw a temper tantrum and threatened to quit if the American developers got to use his NiGHTS code. Some say this was the move that killed the chances of a real Sonic game on the Saturn being produced.

Internet urban legends are awesome
Last edited by ethelred; 01-07-2008 at 07:01 AM.
Sega1991
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(01-07-2008, 06:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by TreIII

Pretty much.

The very reason Artoon exists in the first place was because Naka went all diva, and systematically kicked out the likes of Naoto Oshima and others because he thought they were of no use to him, even though they had more of a say in how Sonic became who he was in the 90s than Naka did, himself.

I suppose I can look forward to seeing if maybe Naka has changed up his act in his time away from the spotlight, but I'm not expecting any miracles. Billy Hatcher was the last game he got to create on his own artistic merit, am I correct?

Even earlier, he was known for actually quitting Sega of Japan at one time because he felt that the original Sonic the Hedgehog was a huge success he wasn't being paid enough for. Mark Cerny lured him to America where he co-developed Sonic 2 with the Sega Technical Institute, a team designed to help bridge the gap between American and Japanese game designers.

Cerny has, as I recall, said it was kind of a mess because nobody spoke each other's language. "It was interesting, but it was the sort of thing you never wanted to do again" I believe were his words.

In 1994, Hirokazu Yasuhara, one of the chief level designers behind the Genesis Sonics, quit Sonicteam because Yuji Naka was being a drama queen. He stuck around Sega until 1999 or 2000 or so where he finally left to go join Naughty Dog (he and Mark Cerny had become friends during the STI experiment, and Cerny brought Yasuhara onboard to Naughty Dog). When he left Sega, Yuji Naka actually went on public record to say Yasuhara was useless.

In 1996, Sega of America wanted to use the NiGHTS technology to make a Sonic game for the Sega Saturn (the game being Sonic X-treme). Yuji Naka threw a temper tantrum and threatened to quit if the American developers got to use his NiGHTS code. Some say this was the move that killed the chances of a real Sonic game on the Saturn being produced.

I largely ignored Billy Hatcher, actually, so I don't know how much Naka was involved with that. I think that was Shun Nakamura's baby; Shun is also, coincidentally, responsible for Sonic 2006.
masud
Member
(01-07-2008, 07:00 AM)
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I knew they'd be working on a Wii game. It better be good Naka, I'm almost done with you.
Thunder Monkey
(01-07-2008, 07:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by ethelred

There is no GAF Collective. People are not all of one mind on anything here.

My consistent position has always been that Naka was a talented, creative, and productive developer who shares a great deal of responsibility for creating a number of original and excellent games, but that he was not good in the role of overall developmental overseer, executive producing and managing large numbers of projects. Most of the stuff he gets trashed over comes from that era, when he wasn't even making games.

When he was put in that role, right as Sega was beginning its sharpest decline, he gave the okay to lots and lots of poor Sonic games and that was bad for the brand, bad for his team's reputation, and bad for Sega. And he didn't manage overall resources too well and yeah, there were personal conflicts. I'll readily concede he was a poor businessman and showrunner. But he's a great dev and that's why I'm pleased to see him back into the hands' on development role and looking forward to seeing what he does.

*claps like a cheesy 80's movie*

The dude came up with, and designed 2D masterpieces. He was stuck in a position he wasn't good at.

edit: or not. This is ethelred.
Last edited by Thunder Monkey; 01-07-2008 at 07:14 AM.
PataHikari
Should quit gaming and do something he enjoys for once
(01-07-2008, 07:09 AM)

Originally Posted by trinest

Kinda disapointed cause then maybe they could of fixed the series. But it's better not to have something so run-down assosicated with a start up.

Are you kidding?

Naka is a large reason the Sonic series is in this state today. His stubbornness, his pride, etc, drove so many stupid ideas into the series.
Jonnyram
(01-07-2008, 07:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by ethelred

Yup, Naoto Oshima left Sonic Team because Yuji Naka was xenophobic which was why Naka went to America, and no one on Sonic Team liked Naka which is why a bunch of them all left Sonic Team to join Prope with him.

It's all starting to come together now.

It's hard to tell how far you go with sarcasm sometimes, but I hope you're not actually defending Naka too seriously. After all, if it weren't for him, Mizuguchi would still be at Sega. For that alone, I hate Naka.
Core407
Banned
(01-07-2008, 07:14 AM)

Originally Posted by Oblivion

Forgive me, but Naka couldn't bring back Sega when he was still FULLY affiliated with Sega, so how would he possibly do so now?

I just mean start releasing Sega games that are on the same level as their top games in the past.
ethelred
Member
(01-07-2008, 07:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jonnyram

It's hard to tell how far you go with sarcasm sometimes, but I hope you're not actually defending Naka too seriously. After all, if it weren't for him, Mizuguchi would still be at Sega. For that alone, I hate Naka.

Defending him from what? I already said I think he did a horrible job as an executive producer responsible for running most of Sega's developmental resources, and I agreed that he allowed the Sonic franchise to be completely ruined under his stewardship.That doesn't change that people ridiculously blow things out of proportion with him, buying into all sorts of lame internet legends, vilifying him for some things where he was actually in the right, and acting like he's never actually done or contributed anything at all, or that he has no genuine talent as a developer.

The Sonic Xtreme thing is a prime example of this. So is some of the idiocy over Naka leaving Sega and going over to SoA. I have no doubt in my mind that Naka's had plenty of clashes with other creative leads at Sega (such as Oshima), but the fact remains that when he went to STI, a bunch of people followed him; when he left Sonic Team to create Prope, a bunch of Sonic Team members followed him again. "Diva" or not, it seems some people like working under him.

And by the way, I don't know that Miz would still be at Sega if not for Naka, either. My understanding was always that Miz left Sega because of Sammy shutting down Sega's satellite teams leading to a lot of losses of creative freedom. Whatever clashes Miz and Naka had, that was certainly more significant, and that decision didn't come from Naka. Aside from that, a lot of people left Sega, often with good reason. Yukio Futatsugi and Manabu Kusunoki left Sega, and to the best of my knowledge, they never had any dealings with Naka. Hell, Hayao Nakayama was the company's CEO, and he's gone, too. Sega's got Rieko Kodama slaving away on brain training shit, so I'm not going to be shocked to death if she ends up leaving, too. The company has a long history of hideously misusing its talent.
Last edited by ethelred; 01-07-2008 at 07:39 AM.
DiatribeEQ
Member
(01-07-2008, 07:48 AM)
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I still miss "Old Sega" they were so much fun.
Sega1991
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(01-07-2008, 07:51 AM)
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The Sonic X-treme thing isn't an internet legend, though. That's an actual account from people who worked on the game. There was an interview with Mike Wallis, the producer on Sonic X-treme over at Sonic Cult or whatever the hell that site is called.

He said that Sega told them to get a Sonic game out by Christmas '96 or '97 and to do that they said they'd need the NiGHTS tech. Bernie Stolar or whoever promised the team they would get it, and they did. The minute Naka heard of this, he threatened to quit. That is fact, and has been corroborated with other members of the Sonic X-treme staff (Chris Senn, an artist/musician for the game).

Naka's comment of Yasuhara is public record, too. When Yasuhara left Sega, they (that is, the press) went to Naka to get a statement (as Yasuhara was a former Sonicteamer); Naka totally ripped in to Yasuhara talking about how his time at Sega had come and gone or something, and that he "had become useless". I remember reading the news story myself back when it first broke and I'm sure there are people out there who could find you the exact news story.

The story of Naoto Oshima quitting over Naka is the only one that may be Internet Legend - I'm not entirely sure where that one was born, but it's worth mentioning that Naoto Ohshima was credited in the original release of Sonic Adventure, but his name was actually removed from the credits for the Gamecube port. That's at least suspicious.
ethelred
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(01-07-2008, 08:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by Sega1991

The Sonic X-treme thing isn't an internet legend, though. That's an actual account from people who worked on the game. There was an interview with Mike Wallis, the producer on Sonic X-treme over at Sonic Cult or whatever the hell that site is called.

He said that Sega told them to get a Sonic game out by Christmas '96 or '97 and to do that they said they'd need the NiGHTS tech. Bernie Stolar or whoever promised the team they would get it, and they did. The minute Naka heard of this, he threatened to quit. That is fact, and has been corroborated with other members of the Sonic X-treme staff (Chris Senn, an artist/musician for the game).

It's probably pretty easy for them to scapegoat Naka, but if you had looked at the link I already posted, you'd see that Sonic Xtreme's problems were a lot deeper than anything one man could be responsible for. The project had run into numerous issues -- it was the video game equivalent of The Man Who Killed Don Quixote. Take Naka out of the picture entirely, and I still seriously doubt it ever would've seen release.

Like I said before, the game was plagued by all sorts of stuff predating Naka's decision regarding the NiGHTS tech. The game had changed platforms, SoA fired the original developers, brought in new developers, fired them, rehired the old developers with a short "finish by Christmas" deadline; you had two devs on the team doing two different engines (with different game design for each) on their own; people were quitting the team; then one of the leads gets sick and can't do anymore. Even after all that, two of the team members still got enough finished to pitch the game to a totally different division of Sega, who rejected the game. None of that stuff had anything to do with Naka.

And that's all ignoring the fact that the game sucked, wasn't a particularly good Sonic game, and was right to be canceled in the first place. So yes, like I said...
Sega1991
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(01-07-2008, 08:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by ethelred

It's probably pretty easy for them to scapegoat Naka, but if you had looked at the link I already posted, you'd see that Sonic Xtreme's problems were a lot deeper than anything one man could be responsible for. The project had run into numerous issues -- it was the video game equivalent of The Man Who Killed Don Quixote. Take Naka out of the picture entirely, and I still seriously doubt it ever would've seen release.

Like I said before, the game was plagued by all sorts of stuff predating Naka's decision regarding the NiGHTS tech. The game had changed platforms, SoA fired the original developers, brought in new developers, fired them, rehired the old developers with a short "finish by Christmas" deadline; you had two devs on the team doing two different engines (with different game design for each) on their own; people were quitting the team; then one of the leads gets sick and can't do anymore. Even after all that, two of the team members still got enough finished to pitch the game to a totally different division of Sega, who rejected the game. None of that stuff had anything to do with Naka.

And that's all ignoring the fact that the game sucked, wasn't a particularly good Sonic game, and was right to be canceled in the first place. So yes, like I said...

You don't have to tell me about Sonic X-Treme. You could probably say I was the guy who got The Sonic Cult an interview with Mike Wallis. Most of what you listed there (the two engines, people quitting, people working themselves to death) were a direct result of Naka denying Sega of America access to the NiGHTS engine.

If they had been able to use the NiGHTS code, a major hurdle in the development process would've been cleared; they would've had a mostly finished gameplay engine to start with (one of the most impressive on the Saturn for the era), rather than spending months muddling on trying to write their own rushed technology.

Chris Senn has recounted experiences in how, even in the original meeting to pitch Sonic X-treme, Yuji Naka was arrogant and disconnected, with sort of a snide "Yeah, whatever" attitude about the whole project.
Oblivion
Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
(01-08-2008, 01:33 AM)

Originally Posted by Core407

I just mean start releasing Sega games that are on the same level as their top games in the past.

I understood what you meant. I was just originally asking why it would be more possible with Naka getting (from what I understand of Japanese business) a demotion, with less power than he had before.
Hero of Legend
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(01-08-2008, 01:40 AM)
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Hopefully, even if Sega does publish this Wii game of his, he'll not rush the game, he should have 100% freedom with this game, and should release it when he thinks it's good and ready.

Hopefully the 10 other Sonic Team members he brought with him were whatever was left of the good Sonic Team, not some poor programming geeks that's been making the recent Sonic games buggy and all that shit.
Ryu Hayabusa
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(09-22-2008, 04:39 PM)
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"world first, the game that even penguins can play"

Site > http://prope.sega.jp/
Last edited by Ryu Hayabusa; 09-22-2008 at 04:56 PM.

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