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Oblivion
Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
(02-19-2008, 10:25 AM)
Me and my friend were just talking a little while ago about the state of the animation industry, and were listing our currently most hated shows. It was then that we suddenly remembered that abomination of a series that was Spike T.V.'s Ren and Stimpy. Possibly the best example of everything that's wrong with the humor in concentrated form. Such a vile, vile product.

I hear he's also an extremely arrogant jerk who think that he's the only one that can save animation or something.

Here's a review he made about Animaniacs:

Although we at Wild Cartoon Kingdom have not actually seen this cartoon, we felt that it was important to review it anyway. This is a godawful piece of trash. Don't watch this.

In true moron fashion, this cartoon is obviously written by scriptwriters who can't draw. More old jokes done badly...pies in the face...seltzer bottles...long outdated bits of vaudeville - this is the absolute worst use of animation. It just makes you sick.

I did accidentally hear the voices in a promo one saturday morning. More from the "Babs Bunny" school of disgusting, wretched voices. You know the kind - obnoxious, grating...the kind of voices that make your neck-skin crawl crawl and shiver. They're so bad you actually feel embarrassed for the actors. It's the same feeling you get watching your dad beat up by a neighbor. If you have to watch it, turn the sound off.

Where does this stuff come from? Who else?...Steven Spielberg. The guy thinks he is doing a homage to old cartoons, but he's just ruining our memories of the good stuff. We've got to get this guy out of cartoons. Like Bob Camp says, "Spielberg is not a funny guy...he wants to be Walt Disney, but he doesn't know how to make cartoons."

And why does this guy put his name on everything? Have you seen the billboards for the dinosaur cartoon? Aaaaaargh!!! Gimme a break! Pretty soon we'll be seeing billboards that say "Coming soon...a bucket of puke from Steven Spielberg!" or, "Don't miss the latest dried-out bloody-nose boogers from the man who gave you ET!" Better hide your dog's butt before "Steven" signs his name on it.

So we've heard that Warner Brothers is starting their own TV network...rumor has it that they might be taking their cartoons away from Fox to run on their own network...big loss.

Actually, we've a confession to make. After writing this review, we broke down and actually watched these cartoons to see if we were accurate. We were.


But yeah, terrible person. Thoughts?
Night_Trekker
Member
(02-19-2008, 10:29 AM)
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There was a period a year or so ago when I regularly read John K.'s animation blog. The man is undeniably a wealth of animation information, and even though I'm not personally interested, he could make it interesting to read and learn about animation.

But his opinions on modern animation (read: everything not created by John K.) are so extreme and severe that I got to the point where I couldn't take it anymore. He's clearly right in many of his criticisms of modern animation and I respect a lot of what he says, but the whining gets old, fast. I love Ren and Stimpy, but it's no wonder he isn't getting work with his attitude.
Last edited by Night_Trekker; 02-19-2008 at 10:46 AM.
Dead
well not really...yet
(02-19-2008, 10:31 AM)
Dead's Avatar
Fuck you John K. "Steven Spielberg presents Freakazoid" is 100x better than any shit you would churn out today.
bjork
(02-19-2008, 10:36 AM)
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Eh, who cares /apathyren
Brian Fellows
Banned
(02-19-2008, 10:42 AM)
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Whats wrong with Babs Bunny?
Shogmaster
Not genuinely interested in rational debate.
(02-19-2008, 10:44 AM)
Shogmaster's Avatar
John K. >>>>>>>>>> all of you. Combined.
RevenantKioku
PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
(02-19-2008, 10:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shogmaster

John K. >>>>>>>>>> all of you. Combined.

Didn't he do that 'take' on Yogi Bear that they showed on adult swim a few years back? My god that was wretchedly bad.
Oblivion
Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
(02-19-2008, 10:50 AM)

Originally Posted by RevenantKioku

Didn't he do that 'take' on Yogi Bear that they showed on adult swim a few years back? My god that was wretchedly bad.

Yes, he did.
Night_Trekker
Member
(02-19-2008, 10:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by RevenantKioku

Didn't he do that 'take' on Yogi Bear that they showed on adult swim a few years back? My god that was wretchedly bad.

What? That was brilliant.

Now, the Adult Party Cartoon, that was bad. The man knows animation quality, but when he's unrestrained his humor is just too pointlessly crass to be funny (in my opinion).

It's depressing to think that the original Ren and Stimpy was as great as it was (apparently) because he was working within the bounds of Nickelodeon censorship. That forced him to be more subtle.
Oblivion
Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
(02-19-2008, 10:59 AM)

Originally Posted by Night_Trekker

What? That was brilliant.

Now, the Adult Party Cartoon, that was bad. The man knows animation quality, but when he's unrestrained his humor is just too pointlessly crass to be funny (in my opinion).

It's depressing to think that the original Ren and Stimpy was as great as it was (apparently) because he was working within the bounds of Nickelodeon censorship. That forced him to be more subtle.

Yeah, I suppose I can stomach the fact that people could like the stuff he put on Nickelodeon/MTV, but the Spike T.V. shit was where I drew the line. It's a shame Spike didn't draw any lines for John K, tho. :/
buckfutter
Member
(02-19-2008, 12:03 PM)
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He's pretty much totally correct about the state of modern animation, but he's so grave and condescending about it that he often overlooks the positives still coming out of the industry; he lumps it all into the same pile. He's also got daddy issues, is totally stuck in the 1940's and is hilariously in love with Katie Rice. Seriously though, something completely unstructured and over-stylised from the 50's or 60's that he grew up with gets no end of praise from him, whereas worthy modern experiments with stylisation get, at absolute best, a begrudging "it's not for me".

So yeah, he's usually quite right and he's an invaluable tool to the industry that is being severely underutilised, but he's also an arrogant ass that can't see past his own backyard. Take the good with the bad.
RevenantKioku
PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
(02-19-2008, 12:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Night_Trekker

What? That was brilliant.

I watched it three times. Once out of curiosity, twice to confirm it was really god awful and a third time because I hate myself.
It wasn't funny in any way shape or form.
Night_Trekker
Member
(02-19-2008, 12:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by RevenantKioku

I watched it three times. Once out of curiosity, twice to confirm it was really god awful and a third time because I hate myself.
It wasn't funny in any way shape or form.

Then I shudder to think of your reaction to R&S:APC.
Draft
(02-19-2008, 12:16 PM)
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Great animator. He might be a wretched human being but a great animator. His blog on animation is required reading.
AMUSIX
Member
(02-19-2008, 12:34 PM)
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Sorry, but he's crap. He may have been something before, but ever since R&S all he's done is "look! it's funny and edgy because it's gross!" Without massive, dripping nostrils, pock-marked skin, bubbling pores, and mountains of zits, he is reduced to nothing. Making your character snort, burp, or fart every few seconds is not comedy or genius.
GoutPatrol
Forgotten in his cell
(02-19-2008, 12:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by AMUSIX

Sorry, but he's crap. He may have been something before, but ever since R&S all he's done is "look! it's funny and edgy because it's gross!" Without massive, dripping nostrils, pock-marked skin, bubbling pores, and mountains of zits, he is reduced to nothing. Making your character snort, burp, or fart every few seconds is not comedy or genius.

You should watch the original R&S again. Everyone has dripping nostrils, pock-marked skin, bubbling pores, and mountains of zits.
Gantz
Banned
(02-19-2008, 01:23 PM)

Originally Posted by buckfutter

He's pretty much totally correct about the state of modern animation, but he's so grave and condescending about it that he often overlooks the positives still coming out of the industry.

So what's positive coming out? Everything looks like outsourced to china crap.
Ponn01
Member
(02-19-2008, 01:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by RevenantKioku

I watched it three times. Once out of curiosity, twice to confirm it was really god awful and a third time because I hate myself.
It wasn't funny in any way shape or form.

Yea, it was bad. And what made it worse was that AS showed it over and over and over and fucking over.

It doesn't surprise me if people liked it though, hell people like Tim and Eric. Speaking of which, love the google ad or whatever at the top of the thread for Tim and Eric, makes the thread even worse.
asa
Member
(02-19-2008, 01:44 PM)
asa's Avatar
Ren & Stimpy was really good and John K rules. Wth is this topic about??
bengraven
will fuck homely black hookers in the name of progress and tolerance
(02-19-2008, 02:06 PM)
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I thought John K. was arrogant, but I liked him and Ren and Stimpy.

Then I saw him post a caricature he drew of Bill O'Reilly with "Genius" written below it.

Now him and that show I loved as a kid can go FUCK themselves.
thefro
Member
(02-19-2008, 02:20 PM)

Originally Posted by Night_Trekker

What? That was brilliant.

Now, the Adult Party Cartoon, that was bad. The man knows animation quality, but when he's unrestrained his humor is just too pointlessly crass to be funny (in my opinion).

Naked Beach Frenzy... believe (NSFW)

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/u...ies/82089.html

The shows they did for Spike that never aired were pretty brilliant... took them a while to get their timing back with a whole new crew, but then they started firing on all cylinders.
Last edited by thefro; 02-19-2008 at 02:23 PM.
woxel1
kind of like a pixel,
made of wax
(02-19-2008, 03:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Brian Fellows

Whats wrong with Lola Bunny?

Fixed.
pubba
Member
(02-19-2008, 03:45 PM)
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John K is one of my heroes.

This is the most wretched thread ever involved in NeoGAF.
sky
Member
(02-19-2008, 03:47 PM)
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Ren and Stimpy was awesome... sadly, nothing since has come close.
Great Rumbler
Member
(02-19-2008, 04:02 PM)
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Why is he reviewing something that he's never seen before?
Dilbert
Member
(02-19-2008, 04:10 PM)
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I don't know enough about the man to have an opinion one way or the other, but the first season of Ren & Stimpy was GENIUS.
jooey
Banned
(02-19-2008, 04:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by bengraven

Then I saw him post a caricature he drew of Bill O'Reilly with "Genius" written below it.

wat
Flynn
"I am so fired..."
(02-19-2008, 04:33 PM)
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If you want to talk about wretched, look no further than Ralph Bakshi. Apparently the new Ren & Stimpy episode with the Fire chief is based on a real incident when Bakshi asked one of his interns to chop up a turd that wouldn't flush with a spatula.

I have massive respect for John K. He's a crackpot and a crank, but he believes in the art of animation like no other. We need voices like him to represent one end (the traditional end)of the spectrum.

I've had friends that worked with him and said he was very difficult to work with. But then the guy makes singular cartoons. The guy was massively influential. We would never have seen any of the next generation of Cal Arts cartoonists if Ren & Stimpy had never happened.
7Th
Harunobu Madarame
is my hero
(02-19-2008, 05:09 PM)
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I enjoy his blog, even when if he obviously gets his opinions to the extreme in order to create controversy.
Cymbal Head
Member
(02-19-2008, 05:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by thefro

Naked Beach Frenzy... believe (NSFW)

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/u...ies/82089.html

404 funny not found
Docpan
My picture is in the dictionary under douchebag.
(02-19-2008, 06:26 PM)
John K. is a huge fucking dickhead. He used to post frequently on Ren and Stimpy fansites, and he was always a huge arrogant cockhole.

He completely ignores all of Ren and Stimpy (save the Adult Party, which sucked hard) after season 2, which is bullshit because some of the best stuff comes from the later episodes.
The Take Out Bandit
grrrrrrr bungle snitches!
rrrrrrrrrrrrr baba britches!
sumthin sumthin itches!
DRAGGGUUULLLAAA!!!
(02-20-2008, 04:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dead

Fuck you John K. "Steven Spielberg presents Freakazoid" is 100x better than any shit you would churn out today.

Eh?

It's not like Freakazoid is a show from 2008. :\

Try again.

John K. seems like the sort of creator you wouldn't want to meet (see also: John Byrne), but I can't deny that his influence isn't still felt around cartoons. Spongebob anyone?

Well that is when they're not still aping Genndy Tartakovsky these days.

And then there's pure shit like Family Guy.

Ugh. . .
Barrage
Modano is Satan.Modano is Bin Laden.
Modano is Lebron.
(02-20-2008, 04:40 AM)
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As you tell from the Avy, I drain the John K. Defense Force Kool-Aid and go back for seconds.

That being said, it IS irritating how much he hates on the Post Season 2 R&S-Listening to his commentary on the Season 3, 4 and 5 DVDs makes you feel like a moron for buying them (except for the final ep, in which he sucks up to the Director and keeps his bullshit to himself, but I digress.)

All that being said, he's still an absolute legend in animation and the most influencial presence in the field in the last 15 years.

P.S.-For those of you saying APC was shit from beginning to end, watch the episode "Ren Seeks Help". The other episodes are, for one reason or another, a mixed bag depending on your tastes-but "Ren Seeks Help" is authentically one of the Top 5 episodes of the show from any season.
Oblivion
Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
(02-20-2008, 04:54 AM)

Originally Posted by The Take Out Bandit

Eh?

It's not like Freakazoid is a show from 2008. :\

Try again.

Well, he was hating on Animaniacs, and that came somewhat around the same time.

John K. seems like the sort of creator you wouldn't want to meet (see also: John Byrne), but I can't deny that his influence isn't still felt around cartoons. Spongebob anyone?

Spongebob barely utilizes some of his influence (I assume you're talking about those closeups where everything is shown in ugly detail or something)

Well that is when they're not still aping Genndy Tartakovsky these days.

Thank god for that.

All that being said, he's still an absolute legend in animation and the most influencial presence in the field in the last 15 years.

How do you figure that? The man's forte was shitty gross out humor that few if any people tried to mimick during that period. I'd say Butch Hartman, Paul Dini, and Bruce Timm were far more influential (if you're talking about the 15 year thing once again). Hell, I'd even go so far as to say that other immense douchebag, Seth McFarlane was more influential.
AniHawk
Cranky. Very cranky.
Rather sarcastic to boot.
(02-20-2008, 05:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by Barrage

P.S.-For those of you saying APC was shit from beginning to end, watch the episode "Ren Seeks Help". The other episodes are, for one reason or another, a mixed bag depending on your tastes-but "Ren Seeks Help" is authentically one of the Top 5 episodes of the show from any season.

I thought the episode was okay, but Mr. Horse's rant at the end of the episode was fantastic.


Some of my favorite R&S moments:
Rubber Nipple Salesmen
End of Sven Hoek
Last edited by AniHawk; 02-20-2008 at 05:07 AM.
Sanjuro
Banned
(02-20-2008, 05:14 AM)
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He is a purist in a world that doesn't understand.

Most of his points are valid, animators have taken the easy way out and hand us shit.
White Man
Two things would happen right before I died: I would regret my entire life and I would want to live it over again.
(02-20-2008, 05:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by Night_Trekker

There was a period a year or so ago when I regularly read John K.'s animation blog. The man is undeniably a wealth of animation information, and even though I'm not personally interested, he could make it interesting to read and learn about animation.

But his opinions on modern animation (read: everything not created by John K.) are so extreme and severe that I got to the point where I couldn't take it anymore. He's clearly right in many of his criticisms of modern animation and I respect a lot of what he says, but the whining gets old, fast. I love Ren and Stimpy, but it's no wonder he isn't getting work with his attitude.

I'm the exact same way. I still poke my head into his blog. He knows his shit, but when he's talking about anything other than the classics, it's best just to skip that bit.
Barrage
Modano is Satan.Modano is Bin Laden.
Modano is Lebron.
(02-20-2008, 05:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by Oblivion




How do you figure that? The man's forte was shitty gross out humor that few if any people tried to mimick during that period.

Cow and Chicken
2 Stupid Dogs
Catdog
Angry Beavers
Megababies

off the top of my head. There's more. Then there are the dozens of cartoons that stole little things from John K. instead of outright copying them (The Big Finger)

I'd say Butch Hartman, Paul Dini, and Bruce Timm were far more influential (if you're talking about the 15 year thing once again). Hell, I'd even go so far as to say that other immense douchebag, Seth McFarlane was more influential.


:lol What, if anything, has Seth McFarlane influenced?

Other great R&S Moments:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Wg5qLx_ACeU
Ren and Stimpy: The Salesmen

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dPHtKarae2Q&feature=related
Log

http://youtube.com/watch?v=q5wNaWx2ctY
Powdered Toast Man

I swear, John K. could sell shit to a turd. I know kids who would've paid out the ass if LOG was real.
StoOgE
First tragedy, then farce.
(02-20-2008, 05:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by Gantz

So what's positive coming out? Everything looks like outsourced to china crap.


Venture Bros says high.
Lelielle
Member
(02-20-2008, 05:30 AM)
The dude does know his stuff, I am still impressed with Fleisher animation to this day, I think many new cartoons have more work in the writing or the marketability rather than the actual animation, but the few gems out there are nothing short of great art -Foster's Home...(I am a bit biased) Samurai Jack and I can't think of any others off the top my head at the moment but there are few others. I've never been a fan of John K's style (too grotesque) but he did pay a lot of attention to little details.
White Man
Two things would happen right before I died: I would regret my entire life and I would want to live it over again.
(02-20-2008, 05:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by StoOgE

Venture Bros says high.

The animation to that is done in (I believe) Korea.
Night_Trekker
Member
(02-20-2008, 05:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by Barrage

Cow and Chicken
2 Stupid Dogs
Catdog
Angry Beavers
Megababies

off the top of my head. There's more. Then there are the dozens of cartoons that stole little things from John K. instead of outright copying them (The Big Finger)

Add the recent My Gym Partner is a Monkey to that list. It uses the stock music, those gross-out close-ups and the impressionistic backgrounds.

And you could probably add Rocco's Modern Life and Camp Lazlo too, but I don't want to reduce those cartoons to carbon copy status. Joe Murray is awesome.
Oblivion
Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
(02-20-2008, 05:47 AM)

Originally Posted by Barrage

Cow and Chicken
2 Stupid Dogs
Catdog
Angry Beavers
Megababies

off the top of my head. There's more. Then there are the dozens of cartoons that stole little things from John K. instead of outright copying them (The Big Finger)

Okay, my bad. Though if his influence gave rise to stuff like Catdog and Megababies, it only further proves he's more of force of evil than good.
lunarworks
Member
(02-20-2008, 06:01 AM)
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I used to admire John K.

Then I faced-off with him on his blog.

Not someone I'd want to meet at a party.
BobTheFork
Member
(02-20-2008, 06:14 AM)
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oh wait, that was bubu goes wild or something like that. Now I remember, I thought it was pretty funny, once. It didn't bear repeating (get it? LOL) and sure as hell not once a week for 5 months. If nothing else that awful noise BuBu kept making made me laugh, once.
J2 Cool
Member
(02-20-2008, 06:45 AM)
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Yeah, he's a pretty sneaky dude. Pretty much a bit of an asshole with a huge ego underneath it all. Still a terrific designer, who can occasionally stumble upon a great cartoon concept. Unforunately if he misses, you have to deal with the worst of him.
WordAssassin
(02-20-2008, 11:47 AM)
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The guy's an asshole that's high on his own fumes. Yeah he knows a LOT of really awesome information about animation but for what it's worth he doesn't follow any of it worth dick. He croons on and on about the techniques that the golden oldies use but the cartoons he's made recently are the most lazy, poorly animated things I've seen this side of fucking Bill Plympton.

Take for example the way he "pioneered" Flash animation. Where instead of drawing a character many times and actually animating it, he does a frame of the body, and then several mouth cut-outs, and animates it that way. Then he throws in a few extreme poses with a dab of squetch here and there and says it's better than anything on TV today? Sorry. An episode of Phineas and Ferb has better animation than anything I've seen John K put out in the last 5-10 years.

And don't even get me started on his "opinions" of recent Disney movies or Pixar films...
iddqd
Member
(02-20-2008, 12:05 PM)
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yeah, i stopped reading his blog and cartoonbrew because i could not take it anymore.
old men constantly repeating how great the old times were.
polyh3dron
Banned
(02-20-2008, 12:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by asa

Ren & Stimpy was really good and John K rules. Wth is this topic about??

This.

Also;

*insert that hilariously bad still of gurren lagann episode 4 here*
Last edited by polyh3dron; 02-20-2008 at 12:49 PM.
RevenantKioku
PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
(02-20-2008, 12:51 PM)
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That Naked Beach Frenzy lacked any humor. Okay sure, titties but I can google image search titties and be equally entertained in that respect.

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