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MaddenNFL64
Member
(02-27-2008, 08:12 AM)
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Maybe some around here have experienced it like I have, but you'd have to put in about 250 hours on a PC, and 400 to 500 on Xbox 360/PS3 to set this game killing bug in motion.

Called the Animation bug, or "ABomb" by some, it's a bug that effects all secondary animations, like doors, magic spells, fire, even butterflies etc. It all gets "frozen", or animates EXTREMELY slowly. So in a real sense, unless you can spend 10 minutes equipping, and unequipping items, and flipping the 3rd person camera around to move the animation along, it can pretty much end your game. And who wants to play with spell effects frozen all over your character as you run around?

Video of the "Animation Bug" happening

More frozen fire and spells

Here's the unofficial thread that Bethesda has forwarded people to, when they encounter this bug (Yes, there were 7 versions of this thread).

This is Thread #8 (old one hit near 200 post limit)

Now, what creates this bug? I've brought up earlier that in all cases, the biggest factor is hours played, but it's also framerate. Thats why it occurs much faster on PC's who have the FPS tweaked well beyond the consoles set 30fps.

Well, here's the technical reason, and a workaround fix for PC users from the threads I linked to:

Temporary workarounds:

Hex editing a savegame (Disclaimer: there is no full official understanding, yet, of what the byte in question does, other than that it causes and cures the problem depending on its value).
Quote of The other Felix: "The saved game files contain a four byte sequence that appears to be be continuously incremented during play, triggering the problem when it reaches a certain value (possibly when changing from FFFFFF48 to 00000049), and with values beyond that increasing its severity. The editing consisted of decreasing the value of the last byte in that sequence by using a hex editor on an affected save. I suspect that the problem will reappear once the 'magic' value is reached again, but that can probably be delayed indefinitely by further editing."

Here are 3 programs that will change the value (listed in order of most used fix) :
1. zBobG's program can be used to examine, as well as fix, the byte link
2. RenderFred's program will modify all saves at once if you so choose link
3. For advanced users, Wrye's program, Wrye Bash, has, among its many features, a function for resetting the byte.

zBobG's fix and quick explanation of the Float number transition where the the animation bug occurs:
The 48 to 49 transition is just the quick-and-dirty test for the animation bug. That byte is the first of 4 bytes (that you can see in OAF) and all 4 bytes are the binary representation of a Float (a decimal) number. Testing has found that when that Float number exceeds a certain value then the animation sticks. The 49 is just an indicator that the value has been exceeded. The fix, replacing 49 with 40, is just a quick-and-dirty method of easily reducing the value of that Float number.
Don't worry about messing up your game, only that one byte is changed and nothing else in the game is affected, except the animation being fixed of course. You can also fix your game any number of times with no bad effect.

In short, these smart individuals found out that it's a float point number transitioning from 48 to 49 in the savegame. With a hexedit tool (lots of options linked to in the above linked threads), you can decrease this number to continue your game unharmed. This number will incrementally increase again, but just decrease it after a time, and all will be fine.

The reason i'm making this long ass thread is for one reason; I'm on Xbox360, and cannot fix my game this way. The Xbox will auto corrupt save files that have been tampered with, so that's out. Only way is for Bethesda to make an official patch, but they cannot figure it out, and refuse to use "quick and dirty" fixes as a patch.

Here's the official response, which can be found in the above linked threads as well. It's from a Community liaison called GStaff. He responds to a forum members inquiry into whether Beth will ever fix this game killing bug.

Originally Posted by GStaff

So here's the deal

Our team is well aware of this issue, but it is one we have not been able to resolve because of the nature of the problem and any fixes related to it. We are continuing to look into it and will let folks know if/when we are able to address it in the future.

Then, soon after Bethesda Tech Support sends this to a forum member.

Hello,

This issue will not be fixed.

There is no official patch or fix to correct this issue from within the
game. We are aware of this issue, but it is one we have not been
able to resolve because of the nature of the problem and any fixes related
to it. We are continuing to look into it and will let folks know
if/when we are able to address it in the future.

For the PC version, there are 3rd-party tools that "fix" saved games
that seems to correct this issue for some users. You can read more here
in our forum:
http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/i...owtopic=522143. Please
note that this is an unofficial 3rd-party fix for PC only, and we
cannot guarantee the functionality of this fix nor any side effects this
may have on your game."




Your customer number is
Please refer to case #:: if you have any further questions.

If you need further assistance, you can also reach us online at
http://support.bethsoft.com or our technical support staff at
(410)-568-3685. Please include all previous replies when/if responding to this
message.

Best Regards,
James H. at Bethesda Softworks Technical Support
support04@bethsoft.com

BTW, these were from almost 1 year ago, no further response, they just forward people to those threads now :lol. So that's it, they cannot fix it, and won't. Maybe it's a bug in the middleware they use, who knows, but it seriously sucks, and after putting so much time into one character, starting over was not an option for me. The fact that no media outlet picked up on it, or asked them questions about it is pretty poor. If you go their message board, you can clearly see the traffic that thread 7 had before it was locked 2 days ago. Not to mention the fact that there were 6 threads before this. It's not isolated, or a small issue, and to leave it broken is pathetic on their part.

Anyway, wanted to let everyone know about this bug (if they didn't already), before it's forgotten. They use the same tools for Fallout 3, so who knows if that's effected as well :P.
Last edited by MaddenNFL64; 02-27-2008 at 11:22 AM.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
(02-27-2008, 08:13 AM)
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So much effort went into this thread, yet you messed up on the simplest part
MaddenNFL64
Member
(02-27-2008, 08:15 AM)
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:lol oops.

Can a mod move this to gaming?

edit: yeah, I usually don't post topics :\
MickeyKnox
Member
(02-27-2008, 08:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by grandjedi6

So much effort went into this thread, yet you messed up on the simplest part

Like a knife slicing through an eye.
Tyrannical
Banned
(02-27-2008, 08:44 AM)
I had this problem with the PC version, the crusher elevator platforms in the Oblivion towers would not work right. They woulkd make the noise that they were moving, but would not actually move. BUT if I cast a spell, while the casting effect was going on they would move. Annoying yes, but it wasn't a big deal after I figured that out.
Pimpbaa
Official Forum Cocksucker
(02-27-2008, 09:57 AM)
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This is not surprising considering Bethesda never did fix the crash to desktop (usually during battles) problem in Morrowind. They need better programmers (and artists).
Zzoram
Member
(02-27-2008, 10:00 AM)
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I'm lucky I tapped out at 200 hours on PC.
MaddenNFL64
Member
(02-27-2008, 10:44 AM)
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Oh, thanks for the move :).

Really didn't want to write this long ass thing, but felt I had to write something about it on GAF. When this problem came to my attention, I just figured some website, or mag would get on it someday. 'Oh Beth isn't going to fix this? Why? Maybe I should find out', but that never happened. I know "Journalists" don't really exist in this industry, more trade reporters, but I was hoping for one of these publications would want to dig into this.

BTW, I think this vid shows how annoying this bug is. The creator of this vid thinks its triggered directly from his athletics going to 83, or something, but really it's that hex number being pushed past 48 (probably inched forward from the change in atheltics).

Even better one :P. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_-PD8sNng0
Last edited by MaddenNFL64; 02-27-2008 at 10:57 AM.
Confidence Man
360 release: 2005
PS3 release: 2007
I need the reminder.
(02-27-2008, 10:51 AM)
Reminds me of the NPC drift bug in Morrowind, where over time game-critical NPCs could drift right through a wall and disappear for good.
MaddenNFL64
Member
(02-27-2008, 11:03 AM)
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Right, I remember that bug. I purposely made that orc in the mages guild to drift towards the inside of the building, so she wouldn't disappear into the wall. Course even with that one, I could remedy it myself. This glitch, only way to stop it is, not play the game, or play it quickly... not my style. I like to take my time. Man I shaped that lvl 50 char. of mine the way I wanted. Sucked when the glitch happened :(.
Takeda Kenshi
blew Staal
(02-27-2008, 04:58 PM)
Considering how unbelievably buggy every single Bethesda Softworks game has been, this does not suprise me in the slightest.
YYZ
Junior Member
(02-27-2008, 05:05 PM)
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I'm not positive but I think there's a fix for your saved game if you use Wrye Bash. If you don't know what that is then you'll have to invest some time looking into the mod community.

Oh I just noticed you mentioned this in the OP, sorry.
Vaxadrin
Banned
(02-27-2008, 05:09 PM)
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There was a Bethesda blog post on IGN saying they were hiring bug testers. I was thinking of applying since I live nearby and it would be for the good of all open-world RPG fans.
Anerythristic
(02-27-2008, 05:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Confidence Man

Reminds me of the NPC drift bug in Morrowind, where over time game-critical NPCs could drift right through a wall and disappear for good.


That bug affected me. Ugh.
Minsc
(02-27-2008, 05:33 PM)
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I remember reading about this like 1 year ago, real old news :lol

Don't know if a bug that stops you after 250-500 hours is necessarily a bad thing. Even I have limits...
Tyrannical
Banned
(02-27-2008, 05:57 PM)

Originally Posted by Vaxadrin

There was a Bethesda blog post on IGN saying they were hiring bug testers. I was thinking of applying since I live nearby and it would be for the good of all open-world RPG fans.

Yes, we would no longer have an anonymous company to lay blame on anymore. It'll be all your's baby!

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