• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF
  • Like

segarr
Member
(04-01-2008, 02:48 PM)
People are so quick to stop playing games and too jaded. I won't let anything get in my way I'll overcome it and triumph.
The-Switcher
Banned
(04-01-2008, 02:49 PM)

Originally Posted by Draft

Yeah that's right it's OK.

:lol

Dunno why that made me laugh.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
(04-01-2008, 02:54 PM)
~Devil Trigger~'s Avatar

Originally Posted by Draft

The camera hate is really just out of control.

I imagine at this point it's rationalization from people too limp wristed or slow of mind to tackle the intense action of Ninja Gaiden. Bubububu the camera got me killed!

It's not a perfect camera, or even a great camera, and it does occasionally get itself into a spot that's less than conducive to, you know, seeing stuff. But the idea that you need to wrestle with it is asinine. It generally affords a good view of the action, and the snapping it behind Ryu is an inelegant but effective remedy for when it wonks out.

Go ahead, quote this post and my avatar. It will help alleviate the shame that lives deep in your heart.

but when you have to "snap it back" behind Ryu a bunch of times in one fight scene, its a problem

look the cam is THE biggest complaint about the series, no its not "camera hate", its bad fucking camera. Its managable most of the time, the game is not unplayable, but its pure ass at times.

its not bitchin', its something they need to improve on, and hoping NG2 does
Draft
(04-01-2008, 02:59 PM)
Draft's Avatar

Originally Posted by ~Devil Trigger~

but when you have to "snap it back" behind Ryu a bunch of times in one fight scene, its a problem

look the cam is THE biggest complaint about the series, no its not "camera hate", its bad fucking camera. Its managable most of the time, the game is not unplayable, but its pure ass at times.

its not bitchin', its something they need to improve on, and hoping NG2 does

It's never that bad.

You don't have to snap it back that much.

But even if you do, it's an instant snap. Very responsive.

Besides, you move around SO MUCH in NG fights that the camera that the camera is always shifting, and it generally shifts to a position which provides a favorable view of the enemy you are trying to fight.

The camera is only a true pain when you are trying to aim at something very far away, like the radio tower boss, or during jumping puzzles.
USD
Member
(04-01-2008, 03:08 PM)
USD's Avatar
On the whole camera issue, I think it's impossible for the game to have the camera some people expect it to have. The nature of the gameplay makes having a camera that captures all the action but still gives you a good view of the closeup action nearly impossible. Ninja Gaiden and Ninja Gaiden II or both very high-paced with heavy emphasis on horizontal movement, compared to other action games that put more stress on vertical movement (something like DMC) or relatively little movement at all.

And after having gone some 12+ hours of not playing NGII, I really need this game. It really felt so good playing it. The demo and home release can't come soon enough, but I'm willing to wait until Team Ninja finishes working on the game's issues.
Last edited by USD; 04-01-2008 at 03:17 PM.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
(04-01-2008, 03:09 PM)
~Devil Trigger~'s Avatar

Originally Posted by Draft

It's never that bad.

You don't have to snap it back that much.

But even if you do, it's an instant snap. Very responsive.

Besides, you move around SO MUCH in NG fights that the camera that the camera is always shifting, and it generally shifts to a position which provides a favorable view of the enemy you are trying to fight.

The camera is only a true pain when you are trying to aim at something very far away, like the radio tower boss, or during jumping puzzles.

Which is part of the problem too, the cam can barely keep up with Ryu and other fast moving enemies, and it tries to stay close to Ryu sometimes. Its fine most of the time, but in some combat and platforming situations, ewww

edit: I dont expect a cam to show me all the infomation in a scene in a shot, thats impossible. No game has that.
Last edited by ~Devil Trigger~; 04-01-2008 at 03:13 PM.
Mamesj
Banned
(04-01-2008, 03:12 PM)
I had some issues with it in the initial release of NG, but then Hurricane Pack 1 or 2 added full camera control, which fixed almost everything. Is it difficult to judge how you should jump on some parts? does the camera occasionally give me an unfavorable angle in a fight? yeah, definitely.
but most 3D games that have a dynamic camera have these same problems.
commariodore64
Member
(04-01-2008, 03:22 PM)

Originally Posted by segarr

People are so quick to stop playing games and too jaded. I won't let anything get in my way I'll overcome it and triumph.

Nah - they just need excuses to move on to easier games... :D
Llyranor
Member
(04-01-2008, 03:42 PM)
Llyranor's Avatar

Originally Posted by USD

I could see it getting a bit repetitive (it was mostly fight enemy group, move on repeat, with the occasional minor fetch-item puzzle), but I had a blast playing it.

Thanks for the impressions.

I see this part as a good thing. NG for me is all about the combat. I absolutely love the combat in NGB, but my overall impression of the game went down because of other aspects of the game (awful platforming/puzzling/first-person archery - the camera wouldn't be so much of a problem if I didn't have to deal with those elements). Just give me fight after fight, Team Ninja! NG DS did a good job in terms of pacing (mainly combat, minimal platforming/puzzling). I didn't so much mind the camera during combat.
FFChris
Member
(04-01-2008, 03:49 PM)
Great impressions USD, thanks.

The framerate is my only worry for this game, but I doubt TN will let it out the door without a solid 60.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
(04-01-2008, 03:54 PM)
-tetsuo-'s Avatar
I love the snap action camera system in NG >.>
Renji Zabimaru
Banned
(04-01-2008, 03:59 PM)

Originally Posted by ~Devil Trigger~

but when you have to "snap it back" behind Ryu a bunch of times in one fight scene, its a problem

look the cam is THE biggest complaint about the series, no its not "camera hate", its bad fucking camera. Its managable most of the time, the game is not unplayable, but its pure ass at times.

its not bitchin', its something they need to improve on, and hoping NG2 does

At least you can snap it back behind Ryu, with DMC1,2,3 and some sections in 4, you don't have that option and must deal with the horrible camera angle that they give. I remember the first time I fought Phantom in DMC1. That boss was the easiest boss in the whole game, but my God was that fucking camera horrible. I swear the camera was your fucking worst enemy.
∀ Narayan
the carnival of stupid
(04-01-2008, 09:38 PM)
∀ Narayan's Avatar

Originally Posted by _dementia

What do you mean here? On Xbox, all non-firewheel Ninpo was 30 fps.

Was it? I'm really not so sure about that. I'm pretty certain that, 90% of the time, the ninpo would fire off for me at 60 frames.
jett
D-Member
(04-01-2008, 09:40 PM)
jett's Avatar

Originally Posted by Renji Zabimaru

At least you can snap it back behind Ryu, with DMC1,2,3 and some sections in 4, you don't have that option and must deal with the horrible camera angle that they give. I remember the first time I fought Phantom in DMC1. That boss was the easiest boss in the whole game, but my God was that fucking camera horrible. I swear the camera was your fucking worst enemy.

I had close to no camera issues with DMC4. In comparison Sigma's camera is oh so horrible.
TheDuce22
Banned
(04-01-2008, 09:47 PM)
I hope they keep the camera exactly the same. How hard is it to hit a button and center it behind you? Its a non issue for fans of the series.
Mrbob
how can the baaasheep
enjoy the shootbang?
(04-01-2008, 09:48 PM)
Mrbob's Avatar
I rarely snap the camera in fights in Ninja Gaiden.

Have some depth perception with the environment.

Perhaps years of Dynasty Warriors has trained me to realize where the enemies are on all sides around me. Not just in front.
Skilletor
Banned
(04-01-2008, 09:49 PM)
Skilletor's Avatar

Originally Posted by TheDuce22

I hope they keep the camera exactly the same. How hard is it to hit a button and center it behind you? Its a non issue for fans of the series.


When you're moving as much as Hayabusa is, it's pretty annoying.
Renji Zabimaru
Banned
(04-01-2008, 09:50 PM)

Originally Posted by jett

I had close to no camera issues with DMC4. In comparison Sigma's camera is oh so horrible.

Of course you didn't. DMC4 camera is atrocious at times. Especially when you are running one direction and the camera will switch it and you will start running the other direction. Very annoying .
TheDuce22
Banned
(04-01-2008, 09:53 PM)

Originally Posted by Skilletor

When you're moving as much as Hayabusa is, it's pretty annoying.

To me its the best and basically the only solution. I fell in love with it in Shinobi for ps2. Fixed cameras are far more annoying.
FFChris
Member
(04-01-2008, 10:17 PM)

Originally Posted by Renji Zabimaru

Of course you didn't. DMC4 camera is atrocious at times. Especially when you are running one direction and the camera will switch it and you will start running the other direction. Very annoying .

Actually, I didn't really have a problem with the DMC4 camera.

Backtracking through almost the entire game on the other hand..
FFChris
Member
(04-01-2008, 10:24 PM)
Edit: Double post.
NullPointer
#INTESTINAL
(04-01-2008, 10:25 PM)
NullPointer's Avatar

Originally Posted by USD

On the whole camera issue, I think it's impossible for the game to have the camera some people expect it to have. The nature of the gameplay makes having a camera that captures all the action but still gives you a good view of the closeup action nearly impossible.

How about Team Ninja and Ninja Theory have a pow-wow? The camera in Heavenly Sword was just about perfect.
alr1ght
bish gets all the credit :)
(04-01-2008, 10:28 PM)
alr1ght's Avatar
I'm playing NG: DS right now and would love a camera like that for the console games. I would prefer a pulled out camera ala GOW, DMC, or NG: DS to a camera like NG where I'm constantly fighting it, along with the enemies.
Classic_Gs
Member
(04-01-2008, 10:44 PM)
Classic_Gs's Avatar
Thx for the impressions OP. Hopefully the technical issues will be addressed before the games release. I cannot wait for the demo to hit XBL.
gstaff
Bethesda Community Lead
(04-01-2008, 11:07 PM)
gstaff's Avatar

Originally Posted by TheDuce22

I hope they keep the camera exactly the same. How hard is it to hit a button and center it behind you? Its a non issue for fans of the series.

Agreed...I never really had problems with it.
Opus Angelorum
Member
(04-01-2008, 11:13 PM)
Opus Angelorum's Avatar
I have faith in Itagaki, but I have to say these impressions raise issues that I was concerned about.
Spruchy
Member
(04-01-2008, 11:23 PM)
Spruchy's Avatar
Not excited for this game anymore T.T
Narag
Member
(04-01-2008, 11:40 PM)
Narag's Avatar

Originally Posted by Renji Zabimaru

Of course you didn't. DMC4 camera is atrocious at times. Especially when you are running one direction and the camera will switch it and you will start running the other direction. Very annoying .

Actually that only happens if you change direction yourself. So long as you hold the direction you were heading in before the angle change, you'd continue along that path.
permutated
Banned
(04-01-2008, 11:50 PM)

Originally Posted by Linkzg

DMC1 to DMC3 (there was never a DMC2, strange thing Capcom did) was a pretty huge change gameplay wise.

You knw some people enjoyed DMC2.

WTF is everyones hangup with it?

Originally Posted by NullPointer

How about Team Ninja and Ninja Theory have a pow-wow? The camera in Heavenly Sword was just about perfect.

Too bad the rest of the game was crap.
∀ Narayan
the carnival of stupid
(04-02-2008, 12:00 AM)
∀ Narayan's Avatar
I wonder how a second-person-view (over the shoulder) would work in this.

Huh, now that I'm thinking about it. It could totally work.
jet1911
Member
(04-02-2008, 12:01 AM)
jet1911's Avatar

Originally Posted by U K Narayan

I wonder how a second-person-view (over the shoulder) would work in this.

Huh, now that I'm thinking about it. It could totally work.

I think the game is way too fast for that.
∀ Narayan
the carnival of stupid
(04-02-2008, 12:04 AM)
∀ Narayan's Avatar

Originally Posted by jet1911

I think the game is way too fast for that.

Regardless, I can envision it working really well.
Chamber
love on your sleeve
(04-02-2008, 12:19 AM)
Chamber's Avatar

Originally Posted by Renji Zabimaru

At least you can snap it back behind Ryu, with DMC1,2,3 and some sections in 4, you don't have that option and must deal with the horrible camera angle that they give. I remember the first time I fought Phantom in DMC1. That boss was the easiest boss in the whole game, but my God was that fucking camera horrible. I swear the camera was your fucking worst enemy.

Only DMC1 didn't have the option. 2-4 allow you to center the camera with a click of the right stick.

Also, outside of the Phantom fight the fixed camera in DMC1 gave you perfect angles.
winter
Member
(04-02-2008, 01:08 AM)

Originally Posted by U K Narayan

Regardless, I can envision it working really well.

It would not work in any way whatsoever. Getting attacked by enemies that you couldn't see behind you was a problem in Godhand. I can't even imagine how much worse the problem would be in a game with much faster and more mobile enemies.
HokieJoe
Member
(04-02-2008, 01:20 AM)
HokieJoe's Avatar

Originally Posted by TheDuce22

Its a non issue for fans of the series.

</.>

Once I got past the first two bosses, I never paid anymore mind to the 'issue'. There's too much personal glee extracted from NG to let the learning curve for the camera deter anyone. If you were deterred, go back and try it again. Once you get into the game you'll become a believer.
∀ Narayan
the carnival of stupid
(04-02-2008, 01:38 AM)
∀ Narayan's Avatar

Originally Posted by winter

It would not work in any way whatsoever. Getting attacked by enemies that you couldn't see behind you was a problem in Godhand. I can't even imagine how much worse the problem would be in a game with much faster and more mobile enemies.

God Hand had a radar. Also, enemies not visible in the camera were pretty easy to deal with.

When I envision a second-person-view in Ninja Gaiden, I envision it working really well. Just because you can't see it working well doesn't mean that it simply won't. Furthermore, with that statement - the same applies to my opinion.
KdoubleA
Member
(04-02-2008, 02:09 AM)
KdoubleA's Avatar
Oh c'mon guys...Why are so many people complaining about the camera? Just center it to Ryu's back by pressing the right trigger occasionally (It is still R, right? )...Integrate it more often into your gameplay; it becomes second nature...I have hardly had any problems with the camera because I always use the right trigger!

It's very tough to implement an excellent dynamic camera for a fast-paced action game like this...Dude...Ryu is so fuckin badass the game can't keep up with him :P
∀ Narayan
the carnival of stupid
(04-02-2008, 02:15 AM)
∀ Narayan's Avatar

Originally Posted by KdoubleA

Oh c'mon guys...Why are so many people complaining about the camera? Just center it to Ryu's back by pressing the right trigger occasionally (It is still R, right? )...Integrate it more often into your gameplay; it becomes second nature...I have hardly had any problems with the camera because I always use the right trigger!

It's very tough to implement an excellent dynamic camera for a fast-paced action game like this...Dude...Ryu is so fuckin badass the game can't keep up with him :P

The camera is pretty easy to cope with. But I have to admit that the camera is prone to get stuck in odd places during boss battles. It was really annoying when I played (and beat) Master Ninja mode.

For the most part, the camera is pretty easy to deal with. One would argue that having to deal with it is a flaw itself, but -- come on, has there ever been a 3D action game that hasn't affected others enough to generate a negative opinion upon its own camera system? Ninja Gaiden's camera system does a decent enough job.
Last edited by ∀ Narayan; 04-02-2008 at 02:18 AM.
otake
Doesn't know that "You" is used in both the singular and plural
(04-02-2008, 02:27 AM)
the camera was the major problem, very disappointing that they haven't fixed it. it was barely acceptable on zigma (few games were out at that time).

team ninja has made a lot of money off this series, they've also had a lot of time to work on it. there's just no excuse for keeping a 5 year old flawed camera system.
C- Warrior
Banned
(04-02-2008, 02:36 AM)

Originally Posted by Renji Zabimaru

Of course you didn't. DMC4 camera is atrocious at times. Especially when you are running one direction and the camera will switch it and you will start running the other direction. Very annoying .

I actually didn't have that many camera problems in DMC4. Especially considering all enemies make auditory cues, lock-on which acts as a camera-recenter, not many problems.

As for the running in one direction, you just keep pushing the analog stick in the same direction, and Nero continues to run in the same direction. It's a really simply concept, hm -- I guess it may be obtuse for -some- people to grasp, but it works okay.
∀ Narayan
the carnival of stupid
(04-02-2008, 02:37 AM)
∀ Narayan's Avatar

Originally Posted by C- Warrior

I actually didn't have that many camera problems in DMC4. Especially considering all enemies make auditory cues, lock-on which acts as a camera-recenter, not many problems.

As for the running in one direction, you just keep pushing the analog stick in the same direction, and Nero continues to run in the same direction. It's a really simply concept, hm -- I guess it may be obtuse for -some- people to grasp, but it works okay.

Yeah, I can definitely say that I didn't have many problems with Devil May Cry 4's camera. If at all, really.
Seiken
Banned
(04-02-2008, 02:37 AM)

Originally Posted by C- Warrior

As for the running in one direction, you just keep pushing the analog stick in the same direction, and Nero continues to run in the same direction. It's a really simply concept, hm -- I guess it may be obtuse for -some- people to grasp, but it works okay.

We (the hardcore DMC-fans) know this from the previos DMC games.
DarkJC
Member
(04-02-2008, 02:51 AM)

Originally Posted by Draft

The camera hate is really just out of control.

I imagine at this point it's rationalization from people too limp wristed or slow of mind to tackle the intense action of Ninja Gaiden. Bubububu the camera got me killed!

It's not a perfect camera, or even a great camera, and it does occasionally get itself into a spot that's less than conducive to, you know, seeing stuff. But the idea that you need to wrestle with it is asinine. It generally affords a good view of the action, and the snapping it behind Ryu is an inelegant but effective remedy for when it wonks out.

Go ahead, quote this post and my avatar. It will help alleviate the shame that lives deep in your heart.




Really I've only played the first 3 missions of sigma but I never noticed any huge problems with the camera. Only my skill :(
Seiken
Banned
(04-02-2008, 02:23 PM)

Originally Posted by DarkJC




Really I've only played the first 3 missions of sigma but I never noticed any huge problems with the camera. Only my skill :(

I don't get it. Spamming Flying Swallow on anything under Normal difficulty will kill ANYTHING. Of course, you need to dodge and blocks attacks too but how hard is that?
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
(04-02-2008, 02:49 PM)
Baraka in the White House's Avatar

Originally Posted by Seiken

I don't get it. Spamming Flying Swallow on anything under Normal difficulty will kill ANYTHING. Of course, you need to dodge and blocks attacks too but how hard is that?

There's your problem.

Thread Tools