[Thaedolus]

I really hope Caprica or some other show can pick up where BSG is gonna leave off and deliver some good drama...I'm gonna miss it so much

[MrCheez]

I haven't followed this thread so I apologize if bringing this up is beating a dead horse around here, but...

Anyone think we're ever going to get an explanation for Baltar's visions of Six in the first few seasons? :/ It almost seems like it's something they've forgotten about.

[The Storyteller]

That scene with Felix and Gaius. :o Amazing.

God I feel exactly the same way. What drew me to the show initially was this intense "HOLY FUCK WE'RE IN SPACE AND WE HAVE NO FUCKING WATER" premise. It was completely engrossing. There were, of course, moments of similar engagement throughout the series, but yeah, the religion stuff completely overtook it. I'm liking a return to that mood currently.

This was good in the first couple of seasons but there was a point where the show needed that tonal shift to keep things fresh. I'm so glad that the show has changed dramatically throughout its run, there was a point where cylons as a 1 dimensional unseen enemy and another OH SHIT WERE RUNNING OUT OF PAPER like storyline weren't gonna cut it. I like that the third and the fourth season in particular have made such a strong balance between the elements that have made this show so good.

[BenjaminBirdie]

This was good in the first couple of seasons but there was a point where the show needed that tonal shift to keep things fresh. I'm so glad that the show has changed dramatically throughout its run, there was a point where cylons as a 1 dimensional unseen enemy and another OH SHIT WERE RUNNING OUT OF PAPER like storyline weren't gonna cut it. I like that the third and the fourth season in particular have made such a strong balance between the elements that have made this show so good.

You can still tell stories about survival for a very long time. You're floating through space counting on a fleet of like twenty ships. There's any number of permutations there that can alter circumstances. Anyway, it's not like it ever became unwatchable or anything but eventually they reached a point where it didn't matter that the Battlestar was a washed up Intrepid that has to be humanity's last hope. Everything settled into a status quo and they shifted more into the mythology of the tribes. That stuff has always been interesting, but never as gripping, to me at least, as the more ground level stuff about surviving and battling Cylons and humans they disagreed with.

[Spotless Mind]

You can still tell stories about survival for a very long time. You're floating through space counting on a fleet of like twenty ships. There's any number of permutations there that can alter circumstances. Anyway, it's not like it ever became unwatchable or anything but eventually they reached a point where it didn't matter that the Battlestar was a washed up Intrepid that has to be humanity's last hope. Everything settled into a status quo and they shifted more into the mythology of the tribes. That stuff has always been interesting, but never as gripping, to me at least, as the more ground level stuff about surviving and battling Cylons and humans they disagreed with.

Yeah, i don't see how it shifted from that theme at all. The scrolls of Pythia have always been a major driving force for the story. Season 1 and 2 has the characters on Kobol looking for the coordiantes for earth as described in the prophecies. Season 3 we have New Caprica. The fleet having settled down finds themselves fighting for survival from the cylon occupation and it dealt with the aftermath of its effects on the fleet as a whole.

Survival has been THE major continuing theme and pretty much every issue raised in the last 2 seasons was related to the end goal of finding earth, so that the human race could survive. It only made sense that as the characters came closer to their goal, that they would go deeper into the mythology, but even then, the alliance with the rebel cylons - season 4's major plotline - was all about preserving the human race. How was making a pact with the cylons in any way settling into a status quo?

I actually think it has been fairly light on mythology aspects as well, aside from the final five revelations. We don't know anything about the tribes as yet. Starbuck is an enigma, but hardly the major force of the story and Head Six has been relegated to the side (though im sure she will come to the forefront in these final eps). The only real difference in season 3 and 4, is that they aren't being relentlessly pursued by the cylons, but it made sense to move away from that.

The show became much more thematically satisfying to me when the writers began to show the point of view of the cylons. It seems to me that people are mistaking the lack of pew pew lasers!!! and the immediate threat of cylon destruction as a shift towards more mythology, which i just haven't found to be the case.

I also have to join in with icarus-daedalus and The Storyteller in saying season 4 is the best yet. The way the writers are playing off 4 years worth of discontent festering within the fleet is seriously powerful stuff.

[BenjaminBirdie]

The show became much more thematically satisfying to me when the writers began to show the point of view of the cylons. It seems to me that people are mistaking the lack of pew pew lasers!!! and the immediate threat of cylon destruction as a shift towards more mythology, which i just haven't found to be the case.

Well, I don't mean that at all. I'm talking about on a scene by scene basis, there was a shift from stuff directly related to the survival of a species to stuff like people in weird outfits cajoling Laura Roslin into reading her scripture and overlit sequences in opera houses. For a little while that stuff was off balance. What the show was always expert at, though, was propelling it forward through character. No matter how hokey and annoying a lot of the religious stuff was in the show, Baltar and Roslin both pretty much knew it, but we still had to sit through a lot of exposition about it.

You can have dozens of episodes without any space fighting (which we've had for a while now) and still have intense scenes about survival. I'm sure there are people out there who just want the last reel of Jedi spread out over four seasons, but I certainly am not one of them.

[Mission]

I could have sworn the second pilot said, "Just follow fucking orders." Lampkin is the goddamn man.

I am pretty sure I heard it too. I intended to re-watch it but so far I didn't.

[Darklord]

Whats going on with the other Cylons? The non-friendly ones? We haven't seen them for a while now. Same with any Centurions. You got a feeling they'd rebel then that story just dropped off the place of the planet.

[icarus-daedelus]

I dunno. How many more planets looking like blue-green-tinted Canadian wilderness do you guys really want them to desperately search for food/water/tylium (or however the fuck you spell it) on? Resource deficiency-of-the-week ftl.

I like the space battles and tension and scary robots from the earlier seasons, but I also like the slightly more chill pace this season because it's allowed a lot of character building, theme exploration, and, believe it or not, more time for plotlines like that of the last two weeks to simmer and build. I also feel like the fundamental POV shift, post-Downloaded, towards inclusion of the human-variety Cylons is one of the best and most interesting things this show has done, though it hasn't been without its bumps. Variety is the spice of life, food, and television, and the first two seasons still exist on DVD if you prefer their style.

I'm sure there are people out there who just want the last reel of Jedi spread out over four seasons, but I certainly am not one of them.

Oh come on, now you're just being ridiculous. :lol

[Freshmaker]

Whats going on with the other Cylons? The non-friendly ones? We haven't seen them for a while now. Same with any Centurions. You got a feeling they'd rebel then that story just dropped off the place of the planet.

If they were smart, they'd just go home.

[B.K.]

Whats going on with the other Cylons? The non-friendly ones? We haven't seen them for a while now. Same with any Centurions. You got a feeling they'd rebel then that story just dropped off the place of the planet.

Maybe they're jumping around looking for the fleet. Space is a big place.

[Jonnyboy117]

I started watching BSG from the beginning (on DVD) last summer and just finally caught up with broadcast as of tonight. The most recent two episodes were absolutely incredible, some of the best they've ever done, and that's saying a lot. This has to be one of the best TV series ever made.

[Spotless Mind]

I dunno. How many more planets looking like blue-green-tinted Canadian wilderness do you guys really want them to desperately search for food/water/tylium (or however the fuck you spell it) on? Resource deficiency-of-the-week ftl.

Exactly. :lol Saying it shifted away from survival issues is wrong on so many levels. It's just presented in a more intensely character driven way and more low-key situations within the fleet in comparison to incoming cylon baseships nuking the crap out of the fleet.

I like the space battles and tension and scary robots from the earlier seasons, but I also like the slightly more chill pace this season because it's allowed a lot of character building, theme exploration, and, believe it or not, more time for plotlines like that of the last two weeks to simmer and build. I also feel like the fundamental POV shift, post-Downloaded, towards inclusion of the human-variety Cylons is one of the best and most interesting things this show has done, though it hasn't been without its bumps. Variety is the spice of life, food, and television, and the first two seasons still exist on DVD if you prefer their style.

More eloquently put than me. :D Agreement x1000.

Well, I don't mean that at all. I'm talking about on a scene by scene basis, there was a shift from stuff directly related to the survival of a species to stuff like people in weird outfits cajoling Laura Roslin into reading her scripture and overlit sequences in opera houses. For a little while that stuff was off balance. What the show was always expert at, though, was propelling it forward through character. No matter how hokey and annoying a lot of the religious stuff was in the show, Baltar and Roslin both pretty much knew it, but we still had to sit through a lot of exposition about it.

I'm having trouble remembering any major quotings of the scriptures from Roslin in season 3 and 4. Actually, i think season 1 and 2 were much heavier on this stuff. The "hokey" opera house has also been a major iconic image for the show since season 1. The show is in it's final season. Sorry, but i would like to see how this figures into the show at some point. The series has always been heavy on the religious imagery and themes. I still don't see this big shift. The big shift you are speaking of was the switch to the POV of the cylons.

You can have dozens of episodes without any space fighting (which we've had for a while now) and still have intense scenes about survival.

To each their own, but that's exactly where i think the writers have succeeded.

[Phoenix]

Whats going on with the other Cylons? The non-friendly ones? We haven't seen them for a while now. Same with any Centurions. You got a feeling they'd rebel then that story just dropped off the place of the planet.

Oh I'm sure we'll be seeing them soon enough....

[Phoenix]

Roslin's speech was so damn awesome it just needs to be posted. :P

What I'm really curious about is whether or not the damaged basestar is still more than a match for Galactica. Its pretty clear through all their battles that Basestars >>>>>>>> Battlestars in terms of firepower and sustaining damage. I think the only benefit the Galactica would have is CAP since the cylons don't seem to have any raiders anymore.

[Kak.efes]

Basestars always seemed rather flimsy to me, personally.

[Kapsama]

What I'm really curious about is whether or not the damaged basestar is still more than a match for Galactica. Its pretty clear through all their battles that Basestars >>>>>>>> Battlestars in terms of firepower and sustaining damage. I think the only benefit the Galactica would have is CAP since the cylons don't seem to have any raiders anymore.

I think it's the opposite. Basestars seem much more fragile than Battlestars.

btw. a crossover ending with Stargate Atlantis would have been awesome with the Rag Tag Fleet arriving just as the Hive ship is attacking Earth. :D

[Stoney Mason]

What I'm really curious about is whether or not the damaged basestar is still more than a match for Galactica. Its pretty clear through all their battles that Basestars >>>>>>>> Battlestars in terms of firepower and sustaining damage. I think the only benefit the Galactica would have is CAP since the cylons don't seem to have any raiders anymore.

If there was a Galactica RTS this wouldn't be in question!

[Big-E]

I think Basestars are less durable than Battlestars. Remember Pegasus was outnumbered and still fucked up a lot of them and caused a lot of damage before committing suicide.

[Kapsama]

If there was a Galactica RTS this wouldn't in question!

If there was a Galactica RTS the developer would probably go the easy route and make them equals.

[Karakand]

Whats going on with the other Cylons? The non-friendly ones? We haven't seen them for a while now. Same with any Centurions. You got a feeling they'd rebel then that story just dropped off the place of the planet.

Casualties on the altar of writers wasting time for 1.5 seasons.

[icarus-daedelus]

Pegasus took out TWO basestars, in its dying throes, without even firing a shot. No contest.

I'm having trouble remembering any major quotings of the scriptures from Roslin in season 3 and 4. Actually, i think season 1 and 2 were much heavier on this stuff. The "hokey" opera house has also been a major iconic image for the show since season 1. The show is in it's final season. Sorry, but i would like to see how this figures into the show at some point. The series has always been heavy on the religious imagery and themes. I still don't see this big shift. The big shift you are speaking of was the switch to the POV of the cylons.

The only really blatant religious plotline in 4 has been the Baltar cult storyline, which I found humorous more than anything else, though I can see how others wouldn't like it; it's also a touchstone for characters like Tyrol and Tory. Well, there was also Madame President's breakdown upon realizing that the Prophecies might have been total bullshit, but that made perfect sense and had to happen, really. And yeah, the prophecies were a huge deal when they spent maybe a dozen episodes in/on/around/looking for Kobol in the first and second seasons.

[Kak.efes]

I think Basestars are less durable than Battlestars. Remember Pegasus was outnumbered and still fucked up a lot of them and caused a lot of damage before committing suicide.

That's from Exodus, and yeah, it obliterated a Basestar within seconds after it engaged it with it's forward cannons. Also from Exodus, wasn't Adama expecting to outlast multiple Basestars over new Caprica? Long enough for the ships on the surface to escape? Only after many more appeared, did he concede they would fail.

[Karakand]

If Basestars > Battlestars they wouldn't have needed h4x to beat the 12 Colonies.

[davepoobond]

im pretty sure battlestars were made to destroy cylon ships.

[Zen]

That's from Exodus, and yeah, it obliterated a Basestar within seconds after it engaged it with it's forward cannons. Also from Exodus, wasn't Adama expecting to outlast multiple Basestars over new Caprica? Long enough for the ships on the surface to escape? Only after many more appeared, did he concede they would fail.

I think Ron Moore said during the ramp up to the series that a BaseStar was 'superior' to Galactica in every way. Remember the Cylons and the 12 Colonies fought to a stand still last time.

Since the series has progressed, I've been under the assumption that Basestars are more easily damaged, but have a greater amount of indirect fire, range, missiles, and fighters. They're designed to stay at a distance and control the range of the conflict whilst raining down so much offensive that it overwhelms the target. Battlestars like Galactica seem to be more oriented toward suppressing incoming fire, and Pegasus seems geared towards being a tough ship designed for direct engagement with the Basestars, able to absorb enough damage from the Cylon missiles and fighters that it can get up close, so to speak. Galactica was made during a different era, of course, so it could have been quite capable of powerful direct engagement in its day, but the main tactic for Galactica is typically to throw up a very impressive wall of flak.

In the mini series didn't 1 Basestar punish Galactica enough for them to withdraw? But Galactica didn't have a full Viper wing, or what not, at the time.

[Drozmight]

I thought Galactica was some POS ship they were going to decom when the shit went down.

[icarus-daedelus]

I thought Galactica was some POS ship they were going to decom when the shit went down.

It is. That's probably where the cracks are from.

[Drozmight]

It is. That's probably where the cracks are from.

I bet they're going to have to ditch galactica and move to the rebel basestar because galactica can't jump anymore or something.

[SnakeXs]

I bet they're going to have to ditch galactica and move to the rebel basestar because galactica can't jump anymore or something.

And take Adama's ship from him? I can't believe they'd do that.

[Zen]

Adama will go down with his ship.

[The Storyteller]

I bet they're going to have to ditch galactica and move to the rebel basestar because galactica can't jump anymore or something.

Previously on Baltar's Basetar.

Adama will go down with his ship.

Yes he will. That's a given.

[Hellraizer]

I bet they're going to have to ditch galactica and move to the rebel basestar because galactica can't jump anymore or something.

They'll probably just do the upgrades they wanted to do before the uprising, problem solved.

Also, god damn at the trailer for the upcoming episode.

[Stoney Mason]

Just to give another dap to Richard Hatch, apparently the original plan was for the quorum to support Tom Zarek and then for him to kill them anyway in that scene from the last episode.


He complained to Ron Moore rightfully that it didn't make any sense and it was changed to what actually occured in the episode.

[rhino4evr]

so, I have a feeling we will get some big revelations tonight. I accidently watched the preview last night, and it gave away a lot (as usual)

so my main question about the 5th Cylon is if she is one of the final five, and gets resurrected, wouldn't she be younger? Sol and Ellen have been together for a long time, and have grown older together. So its obvious Cylons can age. Having Ellen resurrect as an older cylon doesn't make any sense. Unless they only resurrect at their current age.

[Freshmaker]

so, I have a feeling we will get some big revelations tonight. I accidently watched the preview last night, and it gave away a lot (as usual) so my main question about the 5th Cylon is if she is one of the final five, and gets resurrected, wouldn't she be younger? Sol and Ellen have been together for a long time, and have grown older together. So its obvious Cylons can age. Having Ellen resurrect as an older cylon doesn't make any sense. Unless they only resurrect at their current age.

They seemed to have always been old judging by the flashback on earth.

[rhino4evr]

They seemed to have always been old judging by the flashback on earth.

true, but you are fogetting that Odama and Sol grew up together. They have even mentioned it in the show, when Ty confessed to Odama.

[Freshmaker]

Who's Odama?

I get the impression between the 2000 year gap and how unfamiliar they are with other Cylons that they initially weren't resurrected through the same means that current Cylons are. (It'd also be impractical for one of them to be resurrected as a baby relative to the storyline.)

[Sir Fragula]

true, but you are fogetting that Odama and Sol grew up together. They have even mentioned it in the show, when Ty confessed to Odama.

You're doing that just to piss me, off aren't you...

[~Kinggi~]

cant wait for tonight!

[distantmantra]

My wife and I are seeing Sarah Vowell tonight, so we won't get to see this episode until tomorrow. Thank God for DVR capability.

[MotherFan]

true, but you are fogetting that Odama and Sol grew up together. They have even mentioned it in the show, when Ty confessed to Odama.

Perhaps not all the final five arrived on the colonies at the same time? Plus, look at Anders and the Chief. They are younger than Saul. So, I don't think we know when exactly each of the final five resurrected. Plus, all of them are the same age they died on earth.

[rhino4evr]

You're doing that just to piss me, off aren't you...

no. pure freudian slip. ha ha

[The Storyteller]

true, but you are fogetting that Odama and Sol grew up together. They have even mentioned it in the show, when Ty confessed to Odama.

They didn't grow up together, they met either when they joined the military or during the first cylon war.

[Coop]

They didn't grow up together, they met either when they joined the military or during the first cylon war.

According to Battlestar Wiki to met 20 years after the first cylon war.

[The Storyteller]

According to Battlestar Wiki to met 20 years after the first cylon war.

Or that.

[Treo360]

where the frak is everyone?

Ellen is . . .nah won't spoil it for the Pacific guys

[~Kinggi~]

this is an interesting start.

[Treo360]

this is an interesting start.

isn't it?, and fuck what is up with Adama? That is interesting

[Neodiablo22]

Battlestar Galactica is presented by Viagra