[Kosma]

I haven't seen it here yet on GAF. Honestly I can't wait.

The 1 hour vid

Things I already love about WAR:

-Healing classes must engage in melee combat to heal
-You can only raid enemy dungeons when you take control of their city
-Many customizations to your character
-It's about PvP
-Tome of Knowledge = Achievement Whore dream
-Statues of top players
-Cities have different levels of development , depending on how well you do in the WAR,the higher it is the more stuff you can do
-It's more about community and the common good then about individual achievement
-Raid cities, sack cities, kill dwarfs

[krzyspc]

Freaking sweet.

[traveler]

Is there not a significant PvE element to this game? I really like what I've seen but I'm more of a PvE dude than a PvP.

[Elbrain]

Funny thing I was just checking this out at at the Warhammeralliance website and started downloading this like 4 mins before it was posted.

[krzyspc]

Is there not a significant PvE element to this game? I really like what I've seen of this game but I'm more of a PvE dude than a PvP.

There is, instances will exist and at low levels will be more PvE areas, but as you level PvP will become more dominant.

Expect WoW type raids, with less grinding and rep building.

[HocusPocus]

I fear this game will involve too much PvP for my tastes, but I hope it's a good game. WoW needs a strong competitor.

[Elbrain]

I fear this game will involve too much PvP for my tastes, but I hope it's a good game. WoW needs a strong competitor.

That is what I have wanted after playing WoW shitty pvp system got tired of the same old same old pve stuff just new skin. Hopefully Mythic can deliver awesome pvp/rvr stuff like DAOC.

[Kosma]

The focus is on PvP yeah, but there will be enough PvE too. Each capital city has 3 dungeons at least. And if you capture your enemies city you can raid theirs.

[Wes]

The longer they wait and make sure everything is right for the launch the better. A steady launch, I feel, is really it's only hope.

I still think Blizzard are just waiting for them to announce a release date so they can announce their date for Lich King.

[nataku]

Awesome, watching this now.

I'm so hyped up for this game, more than I've been for any other game in a long while.

[elseanio]

Up to the RvR bit. They're talking it up as something unique to them, but can someone explain how its any different from WoW battle grounds?

[Rakthar]

Is there not a significant PvE element to this game? I really like what I've seen but I'm more of a PvE dude than a PvP.

Don't get fooled by the PR, much like Bioshock focused on "It's a really kick ass shooter" in their PR, Warhammer Online is focusing on the PvP in their movies to differentiate from WoW.

Warhammer Online will be first and foremost a PvE game with a huge amount of content. The prominence of the PvP will hopefully be more than it is in WoW, and given Mythic's history with DAOC that will be likely. Still, the biggest change looks to be the idea of instanced quests / battlegrounds counting towards faction control, and the large scale public quests.

From what I've seen and heard, if WoW has a 90% PvE and 10% PvP focus, Warhammer Online may end up with something like 75% PvE and 25% PvP. Or let's say in the wildest, craziest, most optimistic scenario, 60% PvE and 40% PvP.

In addition, the PvP they want is structured - basically more involved versions of battlegrounds and quests. The idea is not to have it be a gankfest, but to incorporate some kind of overall meaningful struggle into the game to serve as an added way to flesh it out and to make the PvE achievments more real and meaningful.

As an aside, from what I hear so far the game is quite underwhelming, and I say this as someone who hopes for a good MMO to come out sometime soon. The most damning criticism has been that Warhammer Online is just so, so utterly bland and fails to to be exciting or compelling. Or rather, it's like someone did a reskin of Dark Age of Camelot 2 with Warhammer and couldn't quite make it gel. It's a mix of the setting, the mechanics, and all that - but basically there seems to be a disconnect between what the trailers are promising and what people are seeing so far.

I continue to hope that either this or AOC will turn out awesome. I really hope they do.

[Kosma]

Up to the RvR bit. They're talking it up as something unique to them, but can someone explain how its any different from WoW battle grounds?

Because the outcome influences the entire server, not just your personal honor rating.

[Seiken]

Fuck me, I'm gonna watch this right now. Thanks for the link!

Impressions coming soon.

[Elbrain]

Up to the RvR bit. They're talking it up as something unique to them, but can someone explain how its any different from WoW battle grounds?

Scenarios are kind of like battle grounds but they are going to have more objective than just the 4 they have in wow. There will be multiple maps as well to play in. Rvr is more of the open pvp but again more than just a set number of people think Eastern plague lands if it had actually people pvp for the objective. They shifter their focus from scenarios a few months ago to Open rvr because that is what the beta testers seemed to be more interested in so in oder to capture the capital you will get more points from open field rvr than scenarios.

Plus they will have sieges with keeps they explain more on the video about that which really has me excited for the game. KEEPS!

[Rakthar]

Up to the RvR bit. They're talking it up as something unique to them, but can someone explain how its any different from WoW battle grounds?

WoW battlegrounds are just one offs that have no impact on the world or environment. You run them for fun and/or honor and there's really nothing bigger than that. They also don't tie into World PvP or the PvE aspect as well.

The idea behing Warhammer Online is to achieve that thing that many MMOs are lacking so far (aside from let's say Eve Online which is a bit too hardcore) - a point beyond just leveling and getting purps. By adding a long term, persistent campaign / struggle between the sides, they hope to make everything within the game more compelling.

It's the same way that if you add an XP and Class system to COD4, the rounds themselves become more enjoyable because you have something you're working on. Every kill isn't just a great move, it gets you closer to your goals.

With Warhammer Online the idea is to make it so that PvE feeds right back into the PvP system and creates a total-setting like "War" that can be waged in different ways. You can contribute to your faction's success by raiding, doing PvPish quests, public quests - whatever. Basically, they want to make it so that you can be part of a big struggle between the factions no matter your playstyle, but also that the PvP component will be much bigger and more in depth than WoW's.

So far we haven't seen much evidence that the content and mechanics are there to actually deliver on this design goal, but that's what they're trying to do. So Warhammer Online is trying to do to WoW what COD4 did to Halo 3 - add in a whole big metagame and make the gameplay itself thus more meaningful and compelling.

[elseanio]

Yeah, I should have kept watching before making that comment (thought they were finished when they went onto something else, but it was still covering RvR). Keeps sound awesome. It will be hard to get the balance right though. IN my experience in WoW, my server sucked. I pretty much had to find a decent guild to win in a BG, or get anywhere near the PvE content the other faction was covering. I hope, if this occurs again in WAR, it wont ruin my game so to speak.

[Elbrain]

Rakthar are you actually saying they things you are saying because you know something we don't or of the stuff you have seen? Cause form what I have seen the game is going to be more RvR than just 72 / 25.

Yeah, I should have kept watching before making that comment (thought they were finished when they went onto something else, but it was still covering RvR). Keeps sound awesome. It will be hard to get the balance right though. IN my experience in WoW, my server sucked. I pretty much had to find a decent guild to win in a BG, or get anywhere near the PvE content the other faction was covering. I hope, if this occurs again in WAR, it wont ruin my game so to speak.

Well for keeps it's not going to be a like in WoW where you just rush in and hit a button or flag and then it's yours. You first have to siege the keep with you weapons that you place and then you have to have and actual group ramming the walls down. From there you have to assault the people that are in there and take them out and if you do all of that then you have too kill the keeps lord and his guard to ensure people just don't attack the keep like at 3 am or something. The devs have said that anyone can be part of the keep assault if you see or hear that one is attacking or defending the only thing is Guilds are the only one that can put their guild banner or thing over the conquered keep.

[Opus Angelorum]

Watching now, been interesting and humorous so far.

[Rakthar]

Rakthar are you actually saying they things you are saying because you know something we don't or of the stuff you have seen? Cause form what I have seen the game is going to be more RvR than just 72 / 25.

That's just my gut feeling given the media they've released, the posts they've made in their newsletter, and the realities of the market.

They're gonna hype the extensive RvR and PvP aspects of course, but what I'm saying is they will deliver a strong PvE portion because they have to. That's the market, it's just that they are going to try to tie that PvE portion back into the RvR (where possible).

Consider Guild Wars, which is more or less a PvP centric game - there's still a ton of PvE content for questing, and unlocking skills. PvE is your bread and butter content, no matter how big the focus on PvP any big budget MMO will have a fleshed out portion of it.

[Elbrain]

Watching now, been interesting and humorous so far.

Yeah I only wish that Paul would of been there probably would of made the thing even more interesting.

[ridley182]

Quick honest question:

What's so special about Warhammer online? In other words, who is developing it and why should I care?

I saw an ad for the Limited Edition at GS when I went to pick up my MGS4 Saga DVD and it looked pretty darn sweet!

[Kosma]

So far we haven't seen much evidence that the content and mechanics are there to actually deliver on this design goal, but that's what they're trying to do. So Warhammer Online is trying to do to WoW what COD4 did to Halo 3 - add in a whole big metagame and make the gameplay itself thus more meaningful and compelling.

Thats a pretty good summary.

You're saying they haven't delivered yet, but the game is still months and months off. WoW in Beta wasn't so hot and balanced either. If anyone can pull this off it's these guys with EA's backing.

Quick honest question: What's so special about Warhammer online? In other words, who is developing it and why should I care?

Just watch the video. Plus it's Warhammer. Plus it's the guys behind DAOC.

[Rakthar]

You're saying they haven't delivered yet, but the game is still months and months off. WoW in Beta wasn't so hot and balanced either. If anyone can pull this off it's these guys with EA's backing.

I agree and hope they do deliver.

However, given how unfinished and how far they have to go in development, I have a feeling even shipping in fall of 08 is ambitious at this point. My hunch is they need at least 15 more months to truly deliver an experience that is fundamentally different from WoW, but the problem is they're running out of time.

If I was them I'd let Blizzard own holiday 08 with WOTLK. WoW's problem is that every expansion basically destroys all the content that came before it, in terms of PvP and PvE endgame. Sure, it gives you a new set of instances and gear to get, but it immediately makes all the previous content worthless aside from as something to sit through to get you to level 70.

Then, in Summer of 09, deliver a polished game that is much more expansive and offers a lot more than WoW does.

Both Age of Conan and Warhammer Online are behind schedule, haven't shown any of their "defining" features in Beta, and are supposedly a few months from release, with a WoW expansion looming in the background to boot.

As someone who dislikes WoW and hopes for the industry to move forward, the whole thing just looks like bad news for everyone that isn't Blizzard. I want to see more successes, and less Hellgate Londons :(

[Kosma]

As someone who dislikes WoW and hopes for the industry to move forward, the whole thing just looks like bad news for everyone that isn't Blizzard. I want to see more successes, and less Hellgate Londons :(

I really like your posts Rakthar. And I agree that they shouldn't rush it too much, but at this stage WoW wasn't much more polished either, and it still hasn't delivered on many promises that were made for release (hero classes anyone?).

The previews I have seen in the last couple of days show that the real difference becomes clear in the endgame, with city sieges. I have faith in this project.

[Elbrain]

I really like your posts Rakthar. And I agree that they shouldn't rush it too much, but at this stage WoW wasn't much more polished either, and it still hasn't delivered on many promises that were made for release (hero classes anyone?). The previews I have seen in the last couple of days show that the real difference becomes clear in the endgame, with city sieges. I have faith in this project.

I agree with you Kosma the more and more that they have shown especially these last few weeks has really gotten me excited and I hope it come through. I still don't know what class I am going to playing but for sure it will be on the Order side maybe Swordmaster or KOTBS really like their Spaniard look to them.

[Kintaro]

WoW's problem is that every expansion basically destroys all the content that came before it, in terms of PvP and PvE endgame. Sure, it gives you a new set of instances and gear to get, but it immediately makes all the previous content worthless aside from as something to sit through to get you to level 70.

Not that WoW needs defending, but I actually view this as a good thing and not a problem at all. HOwever, this is coming from a guy who played a MMO with absolutely ZERO progression in the MMOs entire life span.

[Seiken]

Okay, this vid was amazing. I'm really looking forward to it now.

[krypt0nian]

I wish Age of Conan would open up the media waterfall soon.

[No Means Nomad]

Not Addicted just ripped apart the beta (breaking the TOS and getting kicked out, which they laughed over because they hate the game).

http://www.notaddicted.com/node/173

Not really sure if I expect much from this game.

[Elbrain]

Not Addicted just ripped apart the beta (breaking the TOS and getting kicked out, which they laughed over because they hate the game). http://www.notaddicted.com/node/173 Not really sure if I expect much from this game.

I wouldn't trust that blog spot since a lot of the replies to it seem to say that he was part of the old beta test so yeah.

[No Means Nomad]

I wouldn't trust that blog spot since a lot of the replies to it seem to say that he was part of the old beta test so yeah.

NA is legit, despite it's silly nature.

He didn't get banned until February 29th, which seems pretty recent to me.

[Sinatar]

I wouldn't trust that blog spot since a lot of the replies to it seem to say that he was part of the old beta test so yeah.

I know a few folks in the beta, nothing they mention in that article contradicts what I've heard. The game was just delayed for a reason folks, in it's current state it sucks bad. Hopefully the extra time works out for them, honestly I think they should delay till sometime in '09.

[KyanMehwulfe]

Up to the RvR bit. They're talking it up as something unique to them, but can someone explain how its any different from WoW battle grounds?

As a starting point:

http://www.warhammeronline.com/engli...ion_final.html
http://mythicmktg.fileburst.net/war/...es_BR1000.html

It's a world war. Not just an instanced match of sport pvp.

[bounchfx]

is there a link to DL this? the original link to the vid is great and all, but the download link isn't working for me and i dont want to watch a small ass screen for an hour

I just had to use IE.. peh.

[knitoe]

WoW BG sux big time. PVP was much better before they came along. Raids on opponents capital cities were the shit then. Too bad the shitty servers couldn't handle them, and thus, Blizzard made stupid Quake style Battle Grounds BS instead of trying to fix the problem.

Hoping, Warhammer Online is like DAOC's golden times before they mess it up with all stupid expansions packs after Shroud Isles.

[derder]

I can't watch this shit. They're sooooo annoyinggggg.

[Kosma]

That Not Addicted guy is trying too hard to copy Maddox style. Fail.

[Psychotext]

Tome of knowledge thing seems like a good idea. In fact there's a lot of good stuff here... but I'm never playing an MMO again because they're life killers.

[Kinan]

Not Addicted just ripped apart the beta (breaking the TOS and getting kicked out, which they laughed over because they hate the game). http://www.notaddicted.com/node/173 Not really sure if I expect much from this game.

What a jerk. Hillariously stupid one at that. Game was 1 year till release when he was invited into beta to help make it better and what he is doing? Breaking nda, shitting all over small imbalances and calling it "unpolished turd"? Doesnt even seem that he tried to write some feedback to Mythic or contribute to developement of the game in any way. The fuck, that makes me angry. Is that fucking open beta or something so you expect that game practically ready and is there only for your pleasure?

Dont take anything he wrote to consideration, every aspect of the game has changed to better since. And I do mean every single one.

About the PvE/PvP ratio in the game - its up to you, you can spend most of your time in RvR during leveling if you wish so. Or you may level only in PvE and ignore RvR aspect if you are afraid of big brutal green dudes with mean look. hehe.
There is not much info yet about endgame PvE apart of some city dungeons which may or may not be endgame, but endgame RvR structure is pretty clear, and its awesome to the max.

[Twig]

-Statues of top players -It's more about community and the common good then about individual achievement

Seems like a contradiction.

(Not a knock on the game, jus' sayin'.)

[Dunlop]

-Healing classes must engage in melee combat to heal

This makes me happy, I love playing healing classes, but so say you are removed from the action was the understatement (WOW raiding was a big game of whack a mole with 40 health bars).

Preordered the limited edition the other day, my firewall from work is blocking the video so I'll check it out tonight, very psyched for this game

[Kinan]

Seems like a contradiction. (Not a knock on the game, jus' sayin'.)

There is always place for heros on the battlefield, but you need an army to win a battle.

[Twig]

There is always place for heros on the battlefield, but you need an army to win a battle.

You need 40 people to raid Molten Core in WoW. You need 40 people for Alterac Valley.

Just because you need a lot of people doesn't mean the "individual achievement" focus isn't there. The very fact that there are in-game STATUES of the top players means that people will be constantly fight for the top. So, unless there are a LOT of statues (and I mean a lot), the individual achievement focus is going to be there. It may be unintentional, but that's just how people are.

[Dunlop]

So, unless there are a LOT of statues (and I mean a lot), the individual achievement focus is going to be there. It may be unintentional, but that's just how people are.

I think of the lives that were ruined, families broken up over people that PVP'ed in WOW for GrandMarshall PVP sets under the old system (for people not familiar to WOW, you were compared to all the people on the server for the given week,it was about the equivilant of playing non-stop 16-20 hours a day for 4-5 months, taking time off lowered your ranking)


Then I think of the suicides when they dumbed up the system and you could just purchase specific items with PVP "credits

I see the statues being the same thing

/shudders

I do not know of any real suicides or tragedies

[Psychotext]

I do not know of any real suicides or tragedies

I know one guy that got institutionalised... but that's for the best as he was probably well on his way to killing himself.

[Xater]

This is the only MMO that could make me paly a MMO again. I love the Warhammer universe and they are doing some interesting stuff.

[fizzelopeguss]

Obsessing about, Getting reaaaally creepy about

Great idea, just take the piss out of your main target audience.

[Kinan]

You need 40 people to raid Molten Core in WoW. You need 40 people for Alterac Valley. Just because you need a lot of people doesn't mean the "individual achievement" focus isn't there. The very fact that there are in-game STATUES of the top players means that people will be constantly fight for the top. So, unless there are a LOT of statues (and I mean a lot), the individual achievement focus is going to be there. It may be unintentional, but that's just how people are.

You are missing the point. IF there were a lot of statues, than it would be focused on individual achievement (there is only 10 of them in your home city, btw). The aim is not get you a statue, the aim is to destroy your enemy, capture their city, pillage and butcher its inhabitants. Global win is the motivator (along with phat loot from enemy city, of course).
The statues are there to honor top players of the week, and they are normally hardcore crowd anyway, so their motivations are a bit different than for average players. Statues give them ultimate e-peen extending goal to fight for, but for general public it will be unachievable, dream like motivation. Statues do not give you any advantage in rvr or uber loot, so it is rather pointless to fight your arse off anyway if your only goal to get a statue of your avatar for a week or less, since it may be destroyed by enemy players that captured your city while you were busy posing.

Honouring individual achievements is very important, and this game will have that of course, but focus here on achievement of your guild, your race, your realm. Frankly speaking, there will be no place to put a statue if your capital is in ruins, so you gotta protect it at the very first and only then think about your personal gains (since they are enabled only by success of the whole realm).

[Dunlop]

I know one guy that got institutionalised... but that's for the best as he was probably well on his way to killing himself.

I have no doubt it has happened.

The WOW forums make GAF threads look like a hippy lovefest