Interview with SCE Engineers about PS3 Firmware 2.20

[Nightz]

Sorry if old. Did a search and couldn't find anything. A lot of video stuff in there, but I bolded some parts that you guys might find interesting.

AV Watch has an interview with SCE engineers about 2.20. http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...0403/rt057.htm * Apparently movie studios are satisfied with BD-Live functions in PS3. Its processing speed / graphics rendering is much faster than dedicated players and the performance gap won't get narrower soon. Even among current BD-Java titles, some are doing performance profiling in a loading screen and show richer effects on PS3. Such differentiation by player performance may happen for BD-Live too. It is not something special only for PS3, it's in the spec of the BD format. * 2.20 has neither Managed Copy (w/ transcoding) nor Portable Copy (w/o transcoding, demoed at CES) implemented. * In-game XMB is one of the features discussed at SCE, but they can't comment on the date and so on yet. Though some of the XMB functions are already available in-game by an update, not many games support them yet. * To licensee developers, it was announced that 2.20 could reduce system memory resource usage a lot. * The web browser runs faster and has better streaming support than before. Though they can't comment on which particular service they'll support at this point, it will be improved further. * Though it's technically possible that PS3 charges fees for certain updates, they continue free updates as the basic concept of PS3 is a hardware that evolves with updates. * Optical discs and media files (including DLNA) are played back through 2 different paths in PS3. Functions such as noise reduction are first implemented in the optical disc player, then some of them are applied to the media player. While an optical disc player only requires an implementation in the range of an official spec, a media player needs a different know-how or sometimes a new algorithm to support files authored by general users with varied encoding settings. The playback quality of AVCHD is currently higher when you open it from a disc or a memory stick than from a file in a folder. * The main target of mosquito noise reduction is recordings from digital TV. It assumes a use case where a user plays a long MPEG-4 AVC file recorded on a BD. The upconversion in 1.80 was useless for a noisy movie, so noise reduction (not only the specific function of mosquito noise reduction, but also other filters) has been improved in 2.20. * Though mosquito noise reduction is high on the processing load, the total load is lower than that of the first version of the PS3 BD player or 1.80. In 1.80, it was almost full load when upconverting a DVD, but not now due to optimization. Currently it doesn't reach full load unless it plays back 2 AVC streams in Picture-in-Picture while running high-load BD-Java. * As for 1080 deinterlacing and DTS-HD MA, "please look forward to them." * The LTH support took time since they had to test it with a LTH disc recorded with a Sony BD recorder. * The update schedule is not different from before, basically a large update is once in a quarter. However the next update may be soon because of the PS Store. * It's recommended to update a PS3 since BD titles with new encryption keys start to appear. Though 1.80 already has the latest key, image quality in the latest firmware is a lot better. An updater for PS3 is also contained in some movie titles. The Blu-ray version of Resident Evil 3 has a 2.10 updater.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread...51#post1145651

[Blablurn]

17.4.2008!

Believe!

[RoH]

* In-game XMB is one of the features discussed at SCE, but they can't comment on the date and so on yet. Though some of the XMB functions are already available in-game by an update, not many games support them yet.

I have always suspected that ingame XMB would be implemented by the devs, ala Xbox1. This almost confirms it for me!

[TheExodu5]

* As for 1080 deinterlacing and DTS-HD MA, "please look forward to them."

Wooo DTS-HD MA!

I have always suspected that ingame XMB would be implemented by the devs, ala Xbox1. This almost confirms it for me!

No, that's how it's currently implemented. A universal In-Game XMB will be implemented later on.

[nofi]

I have always suspected that ingame XMB would be implemented by the devs, ala Xbox1. This almost confirms it for me!

Absolutely. Anyone that thinks it's going to magically appear retrospectively on older games is kidding themselves.

[Wollan]

Didn't Scott Steinberg say 'ingame communications' will arrive in 2.4?
Basically the next update after next weeks.

[itxaka]

Though it's technically possible that PS3 charges fees for certain updates

you bolded the wrong part.

[TheExodu5]

Absolutely. Anyone that thinks it's going to magically appear retrospectively on older games is kidding themselves.

How, exactly? It's very possible for the PS Home button to pop up the in-game XMB.

you bolded the wrong part.

Well of course it's technically possible. But they keep confirming, time and time again, that updates will remain free. The only possibility I might see for charging for certain updates might be for adding proprietary decoders or something similar.

[Rabid Wolverine]

* As for 1080 deinterlacing and DTS-HD MA, "please look forward to them."

Only DTS-HD MA decoding or full pass through?

[badcrumble]

I have always suspected that ingame XMB would be implemented by the devs, ala Xbox1. This almost confirms it for me!

An earlier interview (can't source it off the top of my head, sorry) said that in-game XMB is going to become a part of required compliance for all PS3 games, and that earlier 1st-party games will receive patches to be compatible with it. I think it was said that games as early as January of this year have been meeting that standard, or maybe February.

[123rl]

* As for 1080 deinterlacing and DTS-HD MA, "please look forward to them."

Do it and the PS3 becomes the greatest device in the history of the world. Bitstream output isn't necessary and isn't going to be cost-effective (maybe 2% of people will have an amp with HD audio decoders). But converting it to PCM can't be that hard, surely? If it can work perfectly with TrueHD then it should work with DTS as well

[nofi]

How, exactly? It's very possible for the PS Home button to pop up the in-game XMB.

I'm not convinced.

Stealth edit: possible via patches, of course.

[AmericanNinja]

Sorry if old. Did a search and couldn't find anything. A lot of video stuff in there, but I bolded some parts that you guys might find interesting. http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread...51#post1145651

I was just going to post this Nightz lol! I was this close to pushing the submit button but decided to check and see if anyone had posted it lol

[LiquidMetal14]

Absolutely. Anyone that thinks it's going to magically appear retrospectively on older games is kidding themselves.

At least it's there. We can't complain about that can we GAF?!?!?!?

[Jim]

Absolutely. Anyone that thinks it's going to magically appear retrospectively on older games is kidding themselves.

Eh? It's more of an OS thing NOT a game specific thing. And yes, In-game XMB "functions" (friend's list and such) have always been available for the dev to implement.

you bolded the wrong part.

If you bought a 40GB PS3 with no PS2 BC.. would you pay $19 to now have PS2 BC?

[SolidSnakex]

you bolded the wrong part.

Why? The point is they could charge your for it. They could charge you for online play also but they don't.

[Mamesj]

* In-game XMB is one of the features discussed at SCE, but they can't comment on the date and so on yet. Though some of the XMB functions are already available in-game by an update, not many games support them yet.

what the hell does that means? In-game XMB isn't something they can just add?


we're never getting it, are we -_-

[LiquidMetal14]

you bolded the wrong part.

I suppose you wanna stir things up when he said they don't but they technically could.

Snake got to you first. He wins this time :(

[TheExodu5]

I'm not convinced. Stealth edit: possible via patches, of course.

Well the PS Home button accesses the PS3's own methods, not the game's methods. Therefore, the PS3 methods could be redirected to popping up an in-game XMB, rather than the traditional black screen menu.

[AmericanNinja]

There are some pics over at http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=131990

They show some BDlive stuff and blu-ray to PSP transfer.

[OuterWorldVoice]

you bolded the wrong part.

That was the answer to a question. Of course it's technically possible, but there's no chance they'll do it. The guy is just trying to be precise with his answer.

[badcrumble]

Eh? It's more of an OS thing NOT a game specific thing. And yes, In-game XMB "functions" (friend's list and such) have always been available for the dev to implement. If you bought a 40GB PS3 with no PS2 BC.. would you pay $19 to now have PS2 BC?

I think it's entirely possible that what may happen is a graphical replacement of the current in-game PS button menu (which is just a list of options, plus the current controller's battery life) with an XMB-styled options menu. Perhaps memory will be freed up enough to retroactively impose a working friends list on all older games as well (I don't see why not since we are already notified of people signing in and out and whenever we receive a message). The issue that would require patching is custom music in-game, if that indeed becomes a requirement for every new PS3 game.

[RoH]

Wooo DTS-HD MA! No, that's how it's currently implemented. A universal In-Game XMB will be implemented later on.

I guess we will really find out when its released, but for right now if it works like RB6V2 I fine with it.

[devildog820]

How, exactly? It's very possible for the PS Home button to pop up the in-game XMB.

Right, but I think games could lock down resources that the XMB would need. Although in game XMB would probably work with all titles to some degree, it may not work well with all titles.

That's just my speculation, based on my working with somewhat similar systems.

[Jim]

I think it's entirely possible that what may happen is a graphical replacement of the current in-game PS button menu (which is just a list of options, plus the current controller's battery life) with an XMB-styled options menu. Perhaps memory will be freed up enough to retroactively impose a working friends list on all older games as well (I don't see why not since we are already notified of people signing in and out and whenever we receive a message). The issue that would require patching is custom music in-game, if that indeed becomes a requirement for every new PS3 game.

Yeah, I'm talking about messaging primarily. To me In-Game XMB = In-Game Messaging. Custom Soundtracks is a whole other issue and IS game specific. And they have to contend with that universal Custom Soundtracks patent that Microsoft has a firm grip on.

They supposedly reduced the OS memory footprint quite a bit in the most recent SDK (~50%)... which is what they needed to be able to universally implement messaging and other XMB functions.

[TheExodu5]

Right, but I think games could lock down resources that the XMB would need. Although in game XMB would probably work with all titles to some degree, it may not work well with all titles. That's just my speculation, based on my working with somewhat similar systems.

Well to implement in-game XMB, they just have to make it fit into the size they currently have alotted to the OS. The in-game XMB can of course kill the framerate of the game while popped up, but memory wise, it shouldn't pose a problem (as long as they make it fit without increasing the OS memory allocation).

[dallow_bg]

Only DTS-HD MA decoding or full pass through?

Decoding.

The chip cannot bitstream either of the high res formats.

[Wollan]

In regards to already releases games.. my guess:

Home features of any kind: Patching needed (though I'm guessing a few games this spring will have stuff on the disc in secrecy)
Custom soundtrack: Questionable, they may make it 'manual' in that you can run your tracks and the game music at the same time with older titles with you turning off one of them by yourself. New games should follow a updated trc.
Messaging/voice chat: No patching should be needed.
Invites: If they have it, it will be based of the same code that Home launching uses. Patching needed.

And they have to contend with that universal Custom Soundtracks patent that Microsoft has a firm grip on.

That wasn't a April fools? Can people actually patent that?

[tha_con]

I don't know why Sony doesn't just ditch the gamer pics for their 'in-game' xmb, as it would considerably lower the memory requirements.

On that note...ADD MORE FREAKING GAMER PICS SONY. JESUS H. CHRIST!

[somuchwater]

Maybe this isn't new to anyone else, but at least now I know the difference between Managed Copy and Portable Copy - i.e. that Managed Copy will be transcoding and Portable Copy will have a portable version on the disc.

[liquidspeed]

Yeah, I'm talking about messaging primarily. To me In-Game XMB = In-Game Messaging. Custom Soundtracks is a whole other issue and IS game specific. And they have to contend with that universal Custom Soundtracks patent that Microsoft has a firm grip on. They supposedly reduced the OS memory footprint quite a bit in the most recent SDK (~50%)... which is what they needed to be able to universally implement messaging and other XMB functions.

Wait, cnan I have a link to the official source stating that the OS memory footprint has been reduced by that much?? It was origonally 96 MB, so that would be 46 - 47 mb?
Nice

[Oni Jazar]

They supposedly reduced the OS memory footprint quite a bit in the most recent SDK (~50%)... which is what they needed to be able to universally implement messaging and other XMB functions.

And that's the best news right there.

[Classic_Gs]

The playback quality of AVCHD is currently higher when you open it from a disc or a memory stick than from a file in a folder.

This is very interesting and good to know as I just recently purchased a Sony HD camcorder. I had been loading clips that I filmed via usb and it is good to know that it is a better way to go then streaming as far as picture quality goes. Great read and thx to the OP for the article.

[ThirdEye]

When will we get a game that requires 2.20?

[Wollan]

Wiat, cna I have a link to the official source stating that the OS memory footprint has been reduced by that much?? It was origonally 96 MB, so that would be 46 - 47 mb? Nice

The OS memory print was 74MB last I heard (posted at Innerbit) and that was implemented in the 1.90 dev sku (last Augustish).

[Jim]

Wait, cnan I have a link to the official source stating that the OS memory footprint has been reduced by that much?? It was origonally 96 MB, so that would be 46 - 47 mb? Nice

Very close... and yeah, there's no link.

[Elbrain]

So the question now becomes when?!

[TheExodu5]

Wait, cnan I have a link to the official source stating that the OS memory footprint has been reduced by that much?? It was origonally 96 MB, so that would be 46 - 47 mb? Nice

That is a frieking massive improvement. I had no clue the footprint was anywhere that high before.

[shidoshi]

* Optical discs and media files (including DLNA) are played back through 2 different paths in PS3. Functions such as noise reduction are first implemented in the optical disc player, then some of them are applied to the media player. While an optical disc player only requires an implementation in the range of an official spec, a media player needs a different know-how or sometimes a new algorithm to support files authored by general users with varied encoding settings. The playback quality of AVCHD is currently higher when you open it from a disc or a memory stick than from a file in a folder.

This is one of the parts I really found interesting. I understand where the difference in processing of AVCHD files from a disc could come into play, but why a difference between the memory stick and the hard drive? Both would be the exact same type of file, unless this difference exists specifically because of the "Portable Copy" option.

[Full Recovery]

They supposedly reduced the OS memory footprint quite a bit in the most recent SDK (~50%)... which is what they needed to be able to universally implement messaging and other XMB functions.

That is great news, they may be further along with in-game XMB than I had originally thought. I know they have said "summer" but I really wasn't expecting it until the fall or winter update.

Sony, surprise me!

[PjotrStroganov]

A unified friendslist would be awesome if possible.

[Zeitgeister]

you bolded the wrong part.

Possible pricing has been part of the PSN / firmware agreement(s) from day one.

Nothing new there.

[Ranger X]

This whole thing does not distract a little bit from the fact that in-game messaging (the whole corresponding column in the XMB) could appear in every game as an option in the list when you press PS Button. Of course you won't see the whole XMB in-game for a fucking while. (if ever)

[Shinblade]

I have always suspected that ingame XMB would be implemented by the devs, ala Xbox1. This almost confirms it for me!

it's always been that way with PS3.


In-game XMB really refers to standardisation of that for every single game so all games support the same features and interact with the PSn and other parts of the system in the same way.

[DarkJC]

This whole thing does not distract a little bit from the fact that in-game messaging (the whole corresponding column in the XMB) could appear in every game as an option in the list when you press PS Button. Of course you won't see the whole XMB in-game for a fucking while. (if ever)

If you think about it though what parts of the XMB would you expect to see? Aside from the friends and music tab, what else would you need while you're in game? Certainly not settings/video/photo.

[RoH]

Ok I have changed my mind, I see how it could work with the PS button as apposed to using /\. Fundamentally you would have the same in game message system appear in RB6V2 using the PS button.

[PistolGrip]

I noticed the bluray version of "Enchanted" display a cool thumbnail like games do on the movie menu. First time I saw it. Guess more and more bd support is on its way

[Classic_Gs]

This is one of the parts I really found interesting. I understand where the difference in processing of AVCHD files from a disc could come into play, but why a difference between the memory stick and the hard drive? Both would be the exact same type of file, unless this difference exists specifically because of the "Portable Copy" option.

The difference that is described is storage (Disc, Memory Stick) picture quality verus streaming (via DNLA to a PC) picture quality, not memory stick to hard drive as you suggested.

[Mr. Mister]

I know its minor but can they make it so pressing the home button pauses the game?

[androvsky]

Wait, cnan I have a link to the official source stating that the OS memory footprint has been reduced by that much?? It was origonally 96 MB, so that would be 46 - 47 mb? Nice

As of 1.8, it was 72 MB total including system and video ram. http://www.innerbits.com/blog/2007/08/21/ps3-180-sdk/

Half that would be 36 MB, right in 360 territory. Very nice. Kinda kills my in-game Home theory though :(

And yeah, in-game XMB can be done without patching, it's the magic of having a multi-threaded OS, which the PS3 appears to have. Games have no business and likely no ability to know or care what the OS does when the PS button is pressed (with the possible exception of games that already implemented in-game friend's list, which is probably handled by Sony's libraries anyway). I think all Sony says is that they may lose an SPE temporarily (may not be the case any more), and PPE usage may go up a little. Unless a game was coded in such a way that there are side effects to increased OS cpu usage (and such games probably don't exist as I'm sure Sony tests that as part of QA), then no patches should be required.