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TheOddOne
Member
(04-23-2008, 09:05 PM)
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Information overload but interesting stuff:

http://kotaku.com/382637/microsoft-r...-remote-rumors

Rumors have abounded regarding an upcoming motion control device for the Xbox 360, purportedly codenamed "Newton" first, a loquacious anonymous source told MTV that such a controller is in development with support from developer Rare, and next 8bitjoystick pegged patents from Gyration, the same company responsible for Nintendo's Wii remote technology, as the likely tech behind Microsoft's top-secret project.

Gyration, however, unequivocally denied yesterday that it has any such project in development with Microsoft. However, talking to Rare, Microsoft and a company called Motus revealed more items of interest regarding the "Newton"

"There's absolutely no truth to the rumors, and I have no idea where they're coming from," said a genuinely perplexed-sounding Zac Rivera, the PR rep for Movea Inc., the company that purchased Gyration in January 2008. He added, "Gyration is working on some game-related projects, but it won't be announced until later this year, and it is not related to the Xbox 360."

However, when it comes to motion controls, Gyration is not the only game in town. Boston-based Motus also develops motion controller tech for games, and, looking into the company for possible information on the "Newton," we learned that it has an existing product on the market already called the "Darwin."

Coincidence?

Motus calls its Darwin controller "the evolution of the Wii" (Darwin, evolution, SEE WHAT THEY DID THERE?), but Motus chairman Satayan Mahajan says he's not trying to trash-talk: "We really admire the Wii; we think it's a great device. It's done a lot for us... in bringing motion sensing out to the rest of the world. Darwin offers the next generation of Wii."

Mahajan says he's never heard of a project codenamed "Newton," but while Gyration offered an outright denial of a relationship with Microsoft, Mahajan refused to comment on what companies are currently using its technology. "There are publishers in studios using it right now, but we have not announced our relationships."

So does Motus' Darwin aim to compete with existing motion controls, or add that kind of technology to products that don't currently have it?

"That's a tough question," Mahajan says. "We're doing what we're doing; we've created motion-based technology that offers wonderful control. Competition is kind of a natural part of doing business. Our goal is not to compete, but to do what we do and do it very well. We're not knocking down the Wii; we respect it and we admire it."

So where is Darwin aiming? "Darwin will work on console as well as PC. One [console] has very good motion controls... the PlayStation's Sixaxis struggled a little bit, and I think the other consoles, as well as PC, are looking for full motion-based solutions too," said Mahajan. "If you look at the rumor mill... it looks like Microsoft is coming up with something, and we have something... So motion-based control is needed on the other consoles, as well as PC."

The other consoles? You mean, other than PC, PlayStation and the one with "very good motion controls"? Isn't that just one console?


Motus has a previous relationship with Microsoft, too. Its iClub technology encompasses motion analysis and capture, and they've been at that for nearly five years now. The iClub technology was used in Microsoft's Links golf title in 2005. Is Motus continuing to work together with Microsoft?

"I couldn't tell you that," Mahajan said. "I would love to tell you that, but I can't."

One point Mahajan made is that when publishers release Wii titles where motion plays a key role - say, a Harry Potter - they lose "two thirds of their revenue" because without the motion controls that make magical wand-waving what it is, those titles don't sell as well on Xbox 360 and PS3.

We talked to Aaron Greenberg, director of product management for Xbox 360 and Xbox Live to see how concerned Microsoft is about losing the attention of that waggle-loving, more casual market.

"Nintendo's success is great for us," says Greenberg. "It's helped broaden the industry, and we feel like we're a part of that effort. I think that Xbox 360 is a great compliment to that experience; our belief is we offer an experience that has a broad appeal from teens to adults and even young adults... what we're seeing right now, coming out of last holiday, is that the fastest-growing segment for us is teenagers and teenage girls. With Guitar Hero, Rock Band, Dance Dance Revolution... the music genre has really exploded and those titles are selling best on Xbox 360."

In Greenberg's view, the all-inclusive motion-based Wii experience is a gateway drug for young consumers who eventually "graduate" to the Xbox 360. But the Wii has the broadest install base among current consoles how much of that does Greenberg feel is due to the Wii's controls? "Motion control in particular... I wouldn't say that has been the differentiator. It helped contribute to the Wii's success but it created a backlash for Sony. It's not necessarily about motion or no motion, but it's about the implementation of that experience."

He continues, "People buy your console to be entertained, and they buy it for an entertaining gaming experience. By having motion, that doesn't make the gaming experience any better. There's certain types you've seen where it's definitely been unique... and some where you don't want a motion control, like when playing GTA or Madden or a racing game or an RPG. Wii Sports worked well, but in this industry, people want a lot more variety beyond the whack-a-mole type of experience that you get with that."

Does that mean Microsoft has plans to add motion controls only for certain kinds of games? "We haven't announced anything like that," he said. "We really don't comment on those types of speculative rumors."

But does the company think it's necessary to take a cue from Wii and loop in more of the casual audience? Not necessarily, says Greenberg, implying the hardcore gamer is still the platform's main priority. "The fact is, if you look at the top selling and best-rated games in the industry, you'll find that majority of those titles are on Xbox 360," he says. "Four genres drive 80 percent of sales. We've got the top-rated games and the most exclusives in those genres. If [gamers] are only going to buy one system, we feel like we offer the complete experience."

Leaked documents on a possible upcoming Rare title called The Fast And The Furriest, featuring surly squirrel Conker, suggested that the game might include a Wii-like motion control scheme. But an anonymous source inside Rare says that game is just a rumor, noting, "A new Conker game doesn't really factor that high up on our agenda."

Apparently, says the source, lead designer and Conker creator Chris Seavor is sick to death of the character and the franchise, and prefers to back-burner any title featuring the Rare mainstay. "We really don't want to run the risk of being pigeonholed as a casual games developer," adds the source. However, Rare belongs to Microsoft now. "They own us outright, but they still respect our creative integrity," stresses the source.

Still, our source could neither confirm nor deny rumors that the game was once or is currently in development, and nor would the source comment on the waggle rumors. "Many things are possible, but that's not to say that any of them could be true," the source says.

In fact, adds the source, "All this speculation couldn't have come at a worse time for us." Why? Rare would prefer fans focus not on rumors, but on the very true impending launch of Banjo 3, about which the whole team is enormously excited. "Don't expect a traditional platformer," promises the source, "We've gone away and invented a game mechanic that's never been in any game before."

So Microsoft may feign disinterest in the women, kiddos and seniors who've caught the Wii-waggle bug, Rare may be sick of Conker and prefer not to be a "casual developer," and Gyration swears it's not involved. But Darwin developer Motus is keeping the truth close to its chest, so it's unlikely the rumors about the "Newton" will die down anytime soon.

bryehn
Member
(04-23-2008, 09:07 PM)
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I wanna see the Emotiv EPOC make it's way to consoles, screw motion controls.
Shiggy
Banned
(04-23-2008, 09:11 PM)
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"We've gone away and invented a game mechanic that's never been in any game before."

Somehow I expect spherical worlds to be in Banjo 3 now.
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
(04-23-2008, 09:14 PM)

In fact, adds the source, "All this speculation couldn't have come at a worse time for us." Why? Rare would prefer fans focus not on rumors, but on the very true impending launch of Banjo 3, about which the whole team is enormously excited. "Don't expect a traditional platformer," promises the source, "We've gone away and invented a game mechanic that's never been in any game before."

What the heck. I hope this will be not a change in the wrong direction. *Cross fingers*
DefectiveReject
Banned
(04-23-2008, 09:15 PM)
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http://www.motusgames.com/
Vomit
Biggest rip off i ever did see...... I think Nintendo are gonna be ahead of this already for the next Wii?
Vaxadrin
Banned
(04-23-2008, 09:16 PM)
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Screw the waggle shit, I want to hear more about Banjo 3!
Jamesfrom818
Banned
(04-23-2008, 09:19 PM)
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"Don't expect a traditional platformer," promises the source, "We've gone away and invented a game mechanic that's never been in any game before."

Instead of going from left to right, you'll go from right to left.
Son of Godzilla
Banned
(04-23-2008, 09:20 PM)

Microsoft, Rare, Gyration Talk 360 Wii Remote Rumors

No, not really.
tak
Member
(04-23-2008, 09:23 PM)
I still cannot wait until May 13th.

I've been waiting for a new Banjo for so long.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
(04-23-2008, 09:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jamesfrom818

Instead of going from left to right, you'll go from right to left.

I hope Dimps are taking notes!
evilromero
(04-23-2008, 09:27 PM)
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So now consoles are looking for motion-based solutions? Great timing.
levious
That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
(04-23-2008, 09:28 PM)

Originally Posted by Shiggy

"We've gone away and invented a game mechanic that's never been in any game before."

Somehow I expect spherical worlds to be in Banjo 3 now.


that plus paint brush mechanics
belvedere
Junior Butler
(04-23-2008, 09:29 PM)
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Imagine the sex scenes in ME now!
MutFox
Member
(04-23-2008, 09:30 PM)
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LOL, can't wait to see what next gen is like.
Input is gonna be the key. :P
evilromero
(04-23-2008, 09:31 PM)
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Nintendo's blue ocean is already starting to get bloody. It sure didn't take long.
ScrabbleBanshee
Member
(04-23-2008, 09:33 PM)
Uh oh, creationists are going to have some major issues with this.
YYZ
Junior Member
(04-23-2008, 09:42 PM)
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In Greenberg's view, the all-inclusive motion-based Wii experience is a gateway drug for young consumers who eventually "graduate" to the Xbox 360

I love how he's so confident about this. I don't think it's true, for 360 or PS3.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
(04-23-2008, 09:43 PM)
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I am hoping that Banjo is a free-roaming platformer, like Crackdown, only more mascot-y.
speculawyer
clairvoyancy is no excuse for trollin'
(04-23-2008, 09:46 PM)
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Well I'm codenaming my new controller 'Einstein' . . . so take that!
Neomoto
Member
(04-23-2008, 09:46 PM)
It would be funny if all consoles were to get into motion controll next-gen, and Nintendo goes a completely different direction again (in addition to the Wii2mote and other succesfull Wii aspects).
speculawyer
clairvoyancy is no excuse for trollin'
(04-23-2008, 09:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by belvedere

Imagine the sex scenes in ME now!

Ch Totoro
Member
(04-23-2008, 09:48 PM)
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I want to see Banjo 3 so badly !
This game could make me buy a 360.
tak
Member
(04-23-2008, 09:49 PM)

Originally Posted by Dr. Kitty Muffins

I am hoping that Banjo is a free-roaming platformer, like Crackdown, only more mascot-y.

It would be cool to have a GTA style Mario 64 game.
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
(04-23-2008, 09:53 PM)

Originally Posted by Ch Totoro

I want to see Banjo 3 so badly !
This game could make me buy a 360.

Same thing for me. The problem is that the old art design is infinitely better then the new one, in my opinion.
Leon S. Kennedy
Member
(04-23-2008, 09:53 PM)
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The motus games controller has some minor improvements to the wiimote/nunchuck set up, but thats pretty much it. My favorite part of the wii control is the pointer which this doesn't have. I don't think the motus controller will have much of an impact when it eventually gets PC & 360 support.
Evlar
Banned
(04-23-2008, 10:02 PM)

Originally Posted by YYZ

I love how he's so confident about this. I don't think it's true, for 360 or PS3.

They've got a deathgrip on the idea that Wii consumers are young children and they won't let it go. Doesn't matter how many times it bites them in the ass.
KTallguy
(04-23-2008, 10:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by belvedere

Imagine the sex scenes in ME now!

Gyration indeed.
pswii60
(04-23-2008, 10:02 PM)
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Article is (full of) shit. Greenberg's "comments" are just cut-and-paste quotes from old interviews. "Talked to Greenberg" my ass.
Mifune
Mehmber
(04-23-2008, 10:04 PM)
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Truly terrible article. Loads of boring speculation. The kicker is none of those guys actually talk about "360 Wii remote rumors."
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
(04-23-2008, 10:09 PM)

Originally Posted by Leon S. Kennedy

The motus games controller has some minor improvements to the wiimote/nunchuck set up, but thats pretty much it. My favorite part of the wii control is the pointer which this doesn't have. I don't think the motus controller will have much of an impact when it eventually gets PC & 360 support.

The problem with these accessories is that they are only...accessories. In other words, if a controller isn't an absolute standard, its success will be very limited. To reach Wii's popularity, one needs to sobstitute the classic controller with the new one. It is inevitable. But Microsoft will never do it, because one of the bad conseguences will be that Third parties will have big troubles to take advantage of the new gameplay, exactly as it is happening now with the Wii. Probably this will also alienate many hardcore fans and this is the last thing that Microsoft want, because it could be an advantage for the PS3. One of the strentghs of the X360 is the great attach rate due to classic, but well made FPS games. The innovations that are present are many, but not a single one is classifiable as gameplay revolution, because the controller is always the same.

This means that Microsoft, if their main objective is still the battle against the PS3, has all the interest to keep their classic controller and concentrate themself only on diversifying games and at the same time securing Third party exclusivities.
batbeg
Member
(04-23-2008, 10:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by DefectiveReject

http://www.motusgames.com/
Vomit
Biggest rip off i ever did see...... I think Nintendo are gonna be ahead of this already for the next Wii?

Holy shit, that is ugly.
trancekr
Member
(04-23-2008, 10:40 PM)
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nice job, Kotaku. nice job.
daCuk
Member
(04-23-2008, 10:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by DefectiveReject

http://www.motusgames.com/
Vomit
Biggest rip off i ever did see...... I think Nintendo are gonna be ahead of this already for the next Wii?

I am just waiting for a "look-and-feel" sue coming from Nintendo.

Nintendo's lawyers are not legendary for nothing...
Kilrogg
paid requisite penance
(04-23-2008, 10:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by evilromero

Nintendo's blue ocean is already starting to get bloody. It sure didn't take long.

The funny thing is, if this... thing is any indication, chances are the ocean is gonna get bloody as you said, only not for Nintendo itself.

Also, that controller is too bulky, too wanna-look-cool, and only sports useless new functionalities (2 controllers in one? Wow, geniuses at work... Eh). The guys at Motus have got to be kidding.
Tieno
Member
(04-23-2008, 10:51 PM)
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So does this mean more Wiiports for the 360 or some more 360 ports for the Wii?
This doesn't have to be a bad thing for Wiigamers, if it's similar to the Wiimote. More 3rd party support for motion-based Wii60 games?

They probably will pack this in with Banjoo if it's to have any success close to Guitar Hero or the Wii, depending on how good Banjoo is and how well it utilises the controller.
Frenck
Banned
(04-23-2008, 10:58 PM)

"We've gone away and invented a game mechanic that's never been in any game before."

In Banjo 3 the items collect you? Or wait, maybe you are the items? Or you let other players collect items for you over XBL?

So many opportunities to innovate Rare...
Classic_Gs
Member
(04-23-2008, 11:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shiggy

"We've gone away and invented a game mechanic that's never been in any game before."

Somehow I expect spherical worlds to be in Banjo 3 now.

:lol
[Nintex]
Banned
(04-23-2008, 11:04 PM)
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If MS is really working on a Motion controller and trying to capture the Wii market with it they're really doingitwrong.jpg

The controller is just one small part of the Wii strategy.
MightyHedgehog
Welcome to the Wasteland.
I hope you're wearing your flak vest!
(04-23-2008, 11:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shiggy

"We've gone away and invented a game mechanic that's never been in any game before."

Somehow I expect spherical worlds to be in Banjo 3 now.

The blueprint theme and the tool-like use of Kazooie in the teaser seems like it might suggest player-controlled construction/deconstruction and operation of the game world itself.
Geek
Ninny Prancer
(04-23-2008, 11:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by pswii60

Article is (full of) shit. Greenberg's "comments" are just cut-and-paste quotes from old interviews. "Talked to Greenberg" my ass.

So are you accusing Leigh or Greenberg of plagiarism?
pswii60
(04-23-2008, 11:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by daCuk

I am just waiting for a "look-and-feel" sue coming from Nintendo.

Nintendo's lawyers are not legendary for nothing...

Great Giana Sisters. Never forget.

Originally Posted by Geek

So are you accusing Leigh or Greenberg of plagiarism?

The "journalist".
Gaborn
Gaborn News:
Penetrating Your World
(04-23-2008, 11:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by [Nintex]

If MS is really working on a Motion controller and trying to capture the Wii market with it they're really doingitwrong.jpg

The controller is just one small part of the Wii strategy.

This is true. The genius of Nintendo's strategy is they're supporting games for the hardcore, but also for people who are traditionally intimidated by video games. Even my GRANDPARENTS have enjoyed a game or 10 of Wii Sports. The Wiimote emphasizes the ability to perform a variety of actions with a minimum of buttons and dificulty. Also, for more complex games or games with different needs the ability to use the nunchuk as well as other attachments really makes the controller more versatile than just about anything else.
pswii60
(04-23-2008, 11:20 PM)
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Kotaku article:

Originally Posted by Shitaku

"Nintendo's success is great for us," says Greenberg. "It's helped broaden the industry, and we feel like we're a part of that effort. I think that Xbox 360 is a great compliment to that experience; our belief is we offer an experience that has a broad appeal from teens to adults and even young adults... what we're seeing right now, coming out of last holiday, is that the fastest-growing segment for us is teenagers and teenage girls. With Guitar Hero, Rock Band, Dance Dance Revolution... the music genre has really exploded and those titles are selling best on Xbox 360."

IsSeems plagurised from this Next-Gen interview:

Originally Posted by NextGen

We think Nintendo's success, to be honest, is great for us. They're doing great things to help broaden the audience in the industry. We're playing a role as well. And Xbox is a great complement to that experience. It's interesting, because we're not really targeting the same consumer with the same kind of experience, but in many ways we're finding that as we grow and broaden...a lot of that audience is going to be graduating up from the Wii experience. We think we're a great complement to that. What Nintendo's doing is great for the industry, but it's great for us as well.

EDIT: Actually that additional bit about the 'music genre' I just read in another interview yesterday, just trying to locate it. Seems that if they did 'talk' to Greenberg, they actually just sent an email and his PA sent a stock response.
Toy Soldier
Member
(04-23-2008, 11:23 PM)
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graduating up from the Wii experience

I graduated down, it seems.

That's pretty insulting towards Nintendo, whose console has p-l-e-n-t-y for the hardcore gamer, no graduation necessary.
Tron 2.0
Member
(04-23-2008, 11:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mithos Yggdrasill

The problem with these accessories is that they are only...accessories. In other words, if a controller isn't an absolute standard, its success will be very limited. To reach Wii's popularity, one needs to sobstitute the classic controller with the new one. It is inevitable. But Microsoft will never do it, because one of the bad conseguences will be that Third parties will have big troubles to take advantage of the new gameplay, exactly as it is happening now with the Wii. Probably this will also alienate many hardcore fans and this is the last thing that Microsoft want, because it could be an advantage for the PS3. One of the strentghs of the X360 is the great attach rate due to classic, but well made FPS games. The innovations that are present are many, but not a single one is classifiable as gameplay revolution, because the controller is always the same.

This means that Microsoft, if their main objective is still the battle against the PS3, has all the interest to keep their classic controller and concentrate themself only on diversifying games and at the same time securing Third party exclusivities.

Ever since we've started hearing rumors about Microsoft's motion controller, these have been my thoughts exactly. I'm quoting the whole thing because people need to fucking read it.

Now is the wrong time for Microsoft to introduce something like this. Are they going to patch catalog titles to include motion controls?

It just doesn't make sense.
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
(04-23-2008, 11:24 PM)
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Kotaku? IMO, they have less credibility than Surfer Girl. Sometimes is a if their posts are just a quick scan of whats going in NeoGaf. Thats why I stopped visiting the site.
pswii60
(04-23-2008, 11:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I graduated down, it seems.

That's pretty insulting towards Nintendo, whose console has p-l-e-n-t-y for the hardcore gamer, no graduation necessary.

But what about the gamer?

Stop using the term 'hardcore gamer' when you simply mean 'gamer'. It's bad enough Pachter doing it without you starting.
[Nintex]
Banned
(04-23-2008, 11:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gaborn

This is true. The genius of Nintendo's strategy is they're supporting games for the hardcore, but also for people who are traditionally intimidated by video games. Even my GRANDPARENTS have enjoyed a game or 10 of Wii Sports. The Wiimote emphasizes the ability to perform a variety of actions with a minimum of buttons and dificulty. Also, for more complex games or games with different needs the ability to use the nunchuk as well as other attachments really makes the controller more versatile than just about anything else.

Exactly, it's like Nintendo wrote down a roadmap for the entire generation.

compared to the GameCube era:
"GCN will be the new NES!" ,"Online is important", "No wait, N64", "Connectivity is the shit!", "Totally mature now!", "Mario Kart forever!", "Sunshine, Wind Waker sucked we'll make it up to you we promise!", "They didn't suck?", "Why is everyone leaving, guys guys?"

Nintendo really screwed up the GameCube with their half assed strategy and weak "too little, too late" efforts. They really had no clue what they were doing at that time. The system had some amazing games that should've been marketed better. Games like F-Zero GX and Paper Mario 2 wouldn't have bombed on the Wii.
Dragmire
Member
(04-23-2008, 11:28 PM)
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I don't see what the big difference that controller has from the Wii remote and nunchuk. They can become one big stick, but what can one big stick do that one shorter stick can't? I also didn't see anything about an IR sensor or something like it.
Toy Soldier
Member
(04-23-2008, 11:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by pswii60

But what about the gamer?

Stop using the term 'hardcore gamer' when you simply mean 'gamer'. It's bad enough Pachter doing it without you starting.

FWIW, that's not a term I keep in my vocabulary, but I speak in the context of refering to Greenberg - who seems to think there's a 'next level' of gamer who will want to move up from what Wii offers. What I'm saying is that this 'next level,' or hardcore gamer, should have plenty to enjoy on Wii, as should pretty much anyone with any level of interest in gaming.

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