[TAJ]

Actually, Nintendo patented the concept of emulators running on handheld game systems... likely because they plan to do it, and didn't want to get sued by some other paper company who might've patented it at some point. :lol

That's what I originally heard, too, but it's wrong. The patent in question (US patent 6,672,963) describes "a software emulator for emulating a handheld video game platform".

Nintendo hasn't yet used the patent to shut down any emus I'm aware of either...

They immediately shut down a GBA emulator for the Tapwave Zodiac after being granted the patent.

[jarrod]

They immediately shut down a GBA emulator for the Tapwave Zodiac after being granted the patent.

Actually, Nintendo sent a C&D which was ignored by Crimson Fire Entertainment... you can download the emulator in question off their website right now even. For $17.99.

[leroy hacker]

1 - Prove it.

In this thread one allegedly bogus patent by Nintendo has been named. I can't find the article I mentioned before, but here are a few from Microsoft that came up quickly in a Google search:

double-clicking
Bayesian spam filtering
Microsoft copies BlueJ, admits it, then patents it(In this case MS abandoned the patent application once this news got out, claiming it was an 'accident' but I have to wonder how many similar 'accidents' from them slip through)

3>1 so the ball is in your court.

[Dever]

Iwata responds:

Ok yeah hang on, I think I've got that much in my back pocket

[Woo-Fu]

What the hell's up with these unknown companies suing mega corporations these days? It must be the latest trend for them. It's like having the emo kid in the corner cry out for attention by cutting himself because the mega corporations are more popular than him.

Lots of the tech that eventually makes it to market is initially developed by "unknown companies". Your comparison is ridiculous.

[rSpooky]

THis whole patenting thing is is confusing. You would think that if you want to patent anything you would at least have a working prototype to submit? If you can just file any type of ramblings in the hope it will be invented later, or worse read of some break though idea and quickly beat the inventor in getting patent for it, thats just bad.

[MrPing1000]

It must be near time for Nintendo to sue Immersion

[Neomoto]

Iwata responds: Ok yeah hang on, I think I've got that much in my back pocket (laughs)

Fixed. ;-)

[borghe]

Yes. For reference, here's a story from a few weeks ago about a $104 million dollar patent verdict against DirecTV by this same judge getting overturned on appeal.

lol... that verdict was god damn fucking ridiculous. a company basically patented the prioritization of information over a network (yeah, whatever). They then sued DirecTV because DirecTV sends it's guide data over it's satellite based on length of time in the future. So for example they might send out the next hour's worth of guide data every 5 minutes, 1-4 hours of guide data every 15 minutes, 4-12 hours of guide data every hour, etc.

It's basically both a topic of patent squatting AND ridiculous interpretations of broadly worded patents (which are damn near the same act, though not exactly)

If this IS along those same lines, then this is entirely bullshit.

[Kuramu]

I went ahead and patented the concept of filing patents to concepts predating the patent.

edit: Oh crap, I just got sued by my holding company

[poppabk]

the thing with suing... you dont sue early in the process when there is no money to be made. Otherwise, what's the point?

Thats why the patent system is broken.
The intent of patents is to protect your invention so that you can make a product and sell it without others being free to copy you.
The reality is that people file patents then wait for someone else to make a viable product, market it, sell it and then file for patent infringement. Large software companies file thousands of patents as protection and for use in bullying other companies. Small shell companies sit on patents until someone else makes them valuable. Great system.

[jgkspsx]

Patent squatting is a totally degenerate case of IP rights. Limited patent protection on inventions does help with convincing management that a product is worth the R&D costs, in my experience. But when there's no product on the market, no plans to make a product, and no efforts to sell the design to the big guys, the case for patent protection is exceedingly thin.

[Htown]

Here is the patent in question, filed by Anascape in November 2000:

"A hand operated controller or converter structured for allowing hand inputs to be converted or translated into electrical outputs, the controller structured with a plate or platform moveable relative to a base or housing about two mutually perpendicular axes generally parallel to the platform to effect a plurality of sensors for defining output signal(s) based on movement of the platform. The sensors each have an electrically active activator spatially separated from an electric contact surface. A tactile feedback motor with shaft and offset weight is mounted as a component of the controller for providing vibration to be felt by a hand operating the controller. In some embodiments the sensors are pressure sensitive variable output sensors. "

[Metaphoreus]

Here is the patent in question, filed by Anascape in November 2000: "A hand operated controller or converter structured for allowing hand inputs to be converted or translated into electrical outputs, the controller structured with a plate or platform moveable relative to a base or housing about two mutually perpendicular axes generally parallel to the platform to effect a plurality of sensors for defining output signal(s) based on movement of the platform. The sensors each have an electrically active activator spatially separated from an electric contact surface. A tactile feedback motor with shaft and offset weight is mounted as a component of the controller for providing vibration to be felt by a hand operating the controller. In some embodiments the sensors are pressure sensitive variable output sensors. "

In other words, they saw the DualShock, patented the concept, and then saw the DualShock 2 and threw that in at the end, as well. But didn't sue Sony because then it would be obvious.

[MalevolentPanda]

You guys really need to stop letting juries decide on such things.

[Hero of Legend]

What happens if Nintendo loses the appeal?

Also, didn't Sony have to cough up $90 Million from the Immersion lawsuit?

So it's not THAT bad, especially considering Iwata has that much money in his ear anyway. :P

[devildog820]

What happens if Nintendo loses the appeal? Also, didn't Sony have to cough up $90 Million from the Immersion lawsuit? So it's not THAT bad, especially considering Iwata has that much money in his ear anyway. :P

I thought the Immersion patent was one that held up under scrutiny?

[Stalfos]

You guys really need to stop letting juries decide on such things.

Yeah the average jury is going to have a tough time understanding the language in patent claims. Hell, my job right now involves searching though patents and there are times where I have no fucking idea what a claim is actually saying.

[MalevolentPanda]

Yeah the average jury is going to have a tough time understanding the language in patent claims. Hell, my job right now involves searching though patents and there are times where I have no fucking idea what a claim is actually saying.

Indeed, it's that, and allowing them to set damages is really insane, routinely resulting in stupid awards which are then reduced after a lengthy and expensive appeal. What's the point?

[Stumpokapow]

The Immersion patent is fine because it covers a specific implementation of a concept. This patent is not fine because it covers the concept itself (or rather a superset of all possible physical implementations of the concept).

Also, I would think that companies would have learned not to sue Nintendo. It doesn't generally work out so well for them in the end.

[jrricky]

yeah, just saw this scrolling on my wii news channel.

man, these companies try anything.

[Vinci]

How did they manage to lose this one, considering they invented the fucking thing in the first place?

This is what has me completely confused. They got sued by a company that was building tech based on something Nintendo themselves had invented. Did Nintendo not patent the damn analog stick? I thought they patented every body odor and bowel movement -- they didn't patent the analog?

[Yoschi]

Yeah the average jury is going to have a tough time understanding the language in patent claims. Hell, my job right now involves searching though patents and there are times where I have no fucking idea what a claim is actually saying.

I just imagined a jury thinking that, while both sides are looking at him for an answer :lol

[kylej]

Good for Anascape I guess. Not like Nintendo cares.

[Pellham]

a measely $21 million. that's like three weeks worth of Iwata's personal toilet paper.

[maharg]

Microsoft actually probably hurt Nintendo's case pretty bad with the settlement, and to be perfectly honest probably knew that they would be hurting their case. Oh well, Nintendo is now down to only $999,999,999,999,999,999,979,000,000 in the coffers now.. they should be fine.

Settlements do not establish precedent.

[Ranger X]

Is Analscape actually using their patent? Seriously it should be harder to bring shit like that to court.

I'd extend some law and say something like "If you're not using this patent, you cannot charge for damage". This would seriously reduce abuse from business only putting patents "just in case they can sue at some point".

[HK-47]

Why would you patent something you didn't invent? Simple. Because you're scum. Also, emulation does not equal piracy, though Nintendo's Virtual Console could be considered robbery.

Robbery it is, and now at zero games a week

[The Faceless Master]

Here is the patent in question, filed by Anascape in November 2000: "A hand operated controller or converter structured for allowing hand inputs to be converted or translated into electrical outputs, the controller structured with a plate or platform moveable relative to a base or housing about two mutually perpendicular axes generally parallel to the platform to effect a plurality of sensors for defining output signal(s) based on movement of the platform. The sensors each have an electrically active activator spatially separated from an electric contact surface. A tactile feedback motor with shaft and offset weight is mounted as a component of the controller for providing vibration to be felt by a hand operating the controller. In some embodiments the sensors are pressure sensitive variable output sensors. "

that explains how the wiimote/nunchuk combo isnt included, because there's no dual analog, but how does the wavebird count, it doesn't have rumble...

[Great Rumbler]

Is Analscape actually using their patent?

Considering that I went through seven pages of Google searching for "Anascape" and only came up with links to articles about their lawsuit, I really doubt it.

[A Black Falcon]

The Immersion patent is fine because it covers a specific implementation of a concept. This patent is not fine because it covers the concept itself (or rather a superset of all possible physical implementations of the concept). Also, I would think that companies would have learned not to sue Nintendo. It doesn't generally work out so well for them in the end.

Immersion also actually had proof that they came up with the idea first and also were actually using similar ideas, heavily, in their own products. None of those things are true here.

[Rocket Punch]

3D controller with vibration Abstract A hand operated controller or converter structured for allowing hand inputs to be converted or translated into electrical outputs, the controller structured with a plate or platform moveable relative to a base or housing about two mutually perpendicular axes generally parallel to the platform to effect a plurality of sensors for defining output signal(s) based on movement of the platform. The sensors each have an electrically active activator spatially separated from an electric contact surface. A tactile feedback motor with shaft and offset weight is mounted as a component of the controller for providing vibration to be felt by a hand operating the controller. In some embodiments the sensors are pressure sensitive variable output sensors.

yup, that's it right there. nintendo should be ashamed.

[Evander]

I'm curious for more iformation before I judge anyone, but I just can't resist saying "Analscrape".

[Wii]

Anascape, more like...

ANALSCRAPE!

EDIT:

I'm curious for more iformation before I judge anyone, but I just can't resist saying "Analscrape".

HI FIVE! :lol

[GhettoGamer]

/Tay Zonday


Hahaha mere peanuts

[daCuk]

This is the same Nintendo that patented emulation of handheld game systems, to fight existing emulators.

The existence of IDeaS and Visual Boy Advance makes me think that didn't work too well for Nintendo.

[Kuramu]

Now my holding company has filed a patent on the process of lowering internal pressure to facilitate the inflow of atmospheric oxygen for a supplementary fuel source.




You guys can all settle out of court with me personally if you want to keep breathing.

[leroy hacker]

This is what has me completely confused. They got sued by a company that was building tech based on something Nintendo themselves had invented. Did Nintendo not patent the damn analog stick? I thought they patented every body odor and bowel movement -- they didn't patent the analog?

Nintendo does have patents, which were even referenced in the Anascape patent. That's the beauty of east Texas courts.

However, some of Anascape's key claims originate in a 1992 patent of theirs. IANAL, but I don't see how Anascape could win this without showing their 1992 patent invalidated Nintendo's patents. Given that this judgment seemingly didn't invalidate Nintendo's patents, and its surprisingly small size, I can't imagine there was any merit at all.

It definitely shows how terrible the patent office is though-whether or not Nintendo's patents were novel with respect to Brad Armstrong's patents should have been conclusively settled before they were approved and not be a subject of legal controversy many years later.

[Higgy]

21 mil? That drops out of Nintendo's pocket when their shaking the tinkle out of their wienies.

[Weenerz]

In the end, Nintendo will win the appeal, get a huge reward for wasting time and Analscrape will go bankrupt.

[leroy hacker]

get a huge reward for wasting time

Does that ever actually happen in these cases? Awards like that are much rarer than they should be.

[AstroLad]

what a bunch of bullshit. i guess creating lifelong memories for millions of people around the world and being the most innovative company ever doesnt count for shit in american kangaroo court. i know very well who is in the right in this case without having to delve into anything beyond who the defendant is.

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I did a google search for Anascape and nearly all of the results so far have been their legal tussles with Microsoft and Nintendo...they don't even have a page on wikipedia.

Anyone know their website?

[Defcon7]

Yeah,I had never even heard of this one. Darn and I was indeed hoping for more DS games...

[Vinci]

what a bunch of bullshit. i guess creating lifelong memories for millions of people around the world and being the most innovative company ever doesnt count for shit in american kangaroo court. i know very well who is in the right in this case without having to delve into anything beyond who the defendant is.

Well played. :D

[Pimpwerx]

The idea of patents was established with honest intentions, but is completely nonsensical. You don't even have to make the item you patent, just buy the idea. That's bullshit. You should be forced to market and produce the product if you're gonna horde innovation. PEACE.

[JavyOO7]

what a bunch of bullshit. i guess creating lifelong memories for millions of people around the world and being the most innovative company ever doesnt count for shit in american kangaroo court. i know very well who is in the right in this case without having to delve into anything beyond who the defendant is.

You just blew my mind.

[leroy hacker]

I've been looking through the court documents here

http://news.justia.com/cases/feature...cv00158/97919/

and it seems that three of Anascape's patents were entirely invalidated by the USPTO as a result of re-examinations during this case. For some reason that page only has documents up to October-does anyone have any idea where I can find a copy of more recent court documents including the decision?

[Amir0x]

Actually, this is worrying to me in a different way. If Nintendo does end up having to appeal, that's 21 Million out of the shoot...and we all know how much Nintendo hates losing money, no matter the amount. Just look at how many corners they cut with the Wii. I can hardly imagine what this might mean for the Wii's successor. RF inputs? 56K online? A return to cartridges? I wouldn't put it past Nintendo at this point.

transparency, bye bye forever!

BAN REASON: Being an insufferable anti-Nintendo troll

[Firewire]

The whole patent system needs to be re-tooled.