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gconsole
Member
(06-21-2008, 04:20 PM)
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Don't get me wrong. The game is pure awesome. But one thing which always bothering me is the game loading/installation. I mean, the loading time itself is already long enough especially compare to other high-profile game. But installing game every Act? Why don't make it done at once since start? Installing has already taken away the advantage of being disc base system for the console. But now installing every mission ([spoil]the game has only 5 missions by the way[/spoil]). And with the new stage installation, the old stage data will be deleted. If i stop my play at stage 3 and my brother want his own play start from stage 1, it means the game has to re-install stage1 and then re-re-install the game when i want to continue my play from stage3 :/.
Last edited by gconsole; 06-22-2008 at 05:17 PM. Reason: Change the topic
Pureauthor
(06-21-2008, 04:21 PM)
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I fail to see in what capacity this could be considered good. :/
Paranoid_Robot
Member
(06-21-2008, 04:21 PM)
I would like the option (if possible) for one huge install at the beginning but I'm not entirely sure if it's possible.

I don't mind installing games at the start if it reduces load times significantly, but the MGS4 way of doing it is not what I want to see in the future.
chubigans
y'all should be ashamed
(06-21-2008, 04:21 PM)
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How does one game constitute a "trend" again?
dog$
Hates quality gaming
(06-21-2008, 04:22 PM)
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Exactly.

How many upcoming games will have MGS4's size and scope?
MCD
Member
(06-21-2008, 04:23 PM)
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if it reduces the loading time to none i would have appreciated it but alas it doesn't.

there is now loading after every zone and about every cutscene and on top of that, you have to press start to proceed.
MrDaravon
Member
(06-21-2008, 04:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Paranoid_Robot

I would like the option (if possible) for one huge install at the beginning but I'm not entirely sure if it's possible.

I don't mind installing games at the start if it reduces load times significantly, but the MGS4 way of doing it is not what I want to see in the future.

Pretty much what I was going to say. I personally would rather have a longer first install then staggered ones. To be fair after the initial one, the ones for each act were "only" like 2 minutes, but it was still mildly annoying.

I'm hoping they do a patch that gives us that option, as well as an option to view cutscenes or something.
Kuran
Banned
(06-21-2008, 04:23 PM)
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Great, you spoiled it!
TheOddOne
Member
(06-21-2008, 04:23 PM)
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The could have fixed the problem by doing a full install at the beginning ala Devil May Cry. I hate the install screen from MGS4 like a passion now.
Router
Hopsiah the Kanga-Jew
(06-21-2008, 04:24 PM)
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Just think of all the sandwiches you will be able to make people!
dalin80
Member
(06-21-2008, 04:24 PM)
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I cant remember it being every act, off the top of my head isnt it only twice?
ElyrionX
a melancholic piano
a sea-blown wind
(06-21-2008, 04:25 PM)
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It's a bad trend. What makes it worse is the fact you brought up: you have to sit through every single installation when you replay the game. It's ironic really. If they had called it a "Loading" screen, every single review out there would have bitched about the long load times.

But instead, they call it "installation" so it doesn't get nearly as much negative attention as it really deserves.

It's fucking worse than changing discs. At least, changing discs don't require two minutes.
Costanza
Banned
(06-21-2008, 04:25 PM)
Didn't bother me AT ALL.

I just used it as a break to go pee or grab a drink. By the time I got back it was pretty much done. I really wouldn't care if other games used this install formula.
chubigans
y'all should be ashamed
(06-21-2008, 04:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by dalin80

I cant remember it being every act, off the top of my head isnt it only twice?

Nah, I think its:

2 minutes (act 1)
2 minutes (act 2)
3 minutes (act 3)
2 minutes (act 4)
1 minute (act 5)
Rez
(06-21-2008, 04:26 PM)
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Don't give a damn about install times if they are tastefully placed and aren't too long. I honestly fail to see what the issue is. It's a couple of minutes, get over it. This is coming from someone with a PS3 and a 360.
ElyrionX
a melancholic piano
a sea-blown wind
(06-21-2008, 04:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by dalin80

I cant remember it being every act, off the top of my head isnt it only twice?

You remembered wrongly.

Every. Single. Goddamn. Act.

After you complete the game and you or someone else wants to go through it again and it will also be:

Every. Single. Goddamn. Act.

Oh, please for fuck's sake, don't use that stupid argument about MGS4 being such a huge game in terms of "scope" and "size". That's just stupid. You don't need so many fucking installations for games of great scale and scope. Just look at GTAIV.
chubigans
y'all should be ashamed
(06-21-2008, 04:28 PM)
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Oh how quickly we forget:

http://www.gamespot.com/video/925777...meplay-movie-2
ElyrionX
a melancholic piano
a sea-blown wind
(06-21-2008, 04:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rez>You

Don't give a damn about install times if they are tastefully placed and aren't too long. I honestly fail to see what the issue is. It's a couple of minutes, get over it. This is coming from someone with a PS3 and a 360.

So you don't see an issue with a game having loading that are a couple of minutes long?
Costanza
Banned
(06-21-2008, 04:29 PM)

Originally Posted by ElyrionX

You remembered wrongly.

Every. Single. Goddamn. Act.

After you complete the game and you or someone else wants to go through it again and it will also be:

Every. Single. Goddamn. Act.

Oh, please for fuck's sake, don't use that stupid argument about MGS4 being such a huge game in terms of "scope" and "size". That's just stupid. You don't need so many fucking installations for games of great scale and scope. Just look at GTAIV.

GTA has like a 3 minute load every time you boot the game...
Clinton514
Member
(06-21-2008, 04:30 PM)
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It's better than sitting through 20 mins of DMC4 backstory.
Pureauthor
(06-21-2008, 04:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rez>You

Don't give a damn about install times if they are tastefully placed and aren't too long. I honestly fail to see what the issue is. It's a couple of minutes, get over it. This is coming from someone with a PS3 and a 360.

It's a couple of minutes every single time you want to play the game. If this was two minutes of 'Load times', this would be blasted all over the internet. And in practical terms, it's no different, so it should receive the same flak.
chubigans
y'all should be ashamed
(06-21-2008, 04:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Pureauthor

It's a couple of minutes every single time you want to play the game.

That's not true. You install, that install will be there next time you boot up. It's an issue when you want to skip around all over the game, but less so if you just play though it multiple times (which is the way it was "meant" to be played).
LCfiner
Member
(06-21-2008, 04:32 PM)
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I don't like the precedence set by the multiple, mandatory installations in MGS4.

Sure, they're quick, but then you still have load times between different zones in a level. They're not eliminating the shorter load times like most people thought they would. The mid level loading in MGS4 is about as frequent as the elevators in Mass Effect.
Metalmurphy
Banned
(06-21-2008, 04:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElyrionX

So you don't see an issue with a game having loading that are a couple of minutes long?

If it exists, it obviously required it. I mean... they obviously didn't do it just for the heck of it... so... what's the point in arguing?

I rather have this then downgrading the game in any aspect...
mr_bishiuk
Banned
(06-21-2008, 04:32 PM)
If the game installed all the acts in one go then I take it it would need a 20 gig install (5 acts x 4 gigs), its a bugger but I guess Blu ray has its advantages and disadvantage as a games medium. Once Blu ray players can play at faster speeds then the need for installs will go.
ElyrionX
a melancholic piano
a sea-blown wind
(06-21-2008, 04:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Clinton514

It's better than sitting through 20 mins of DMC4 backstory.

So watching Snake smoke and reading lameass "advice" off the screen for 20 minutes is supposed to be "better".

Good lord.
chubigans
y'all should be ashamed
(06-21-2008, 04:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElyrionX

So watching Snake smoke and reading lameass "advice" off the screen for 20 minutes is supposed to be "better".

Good lord.

Wow, installs are 20 minutes now? :lol
Clinton514
Member
(06-21-2008, 04:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElyrionX

So watching Snake smoke and reading lameass "advice" off the screen for 20 minutes is supposed to be "better".

Good lord.

For 1-3 mins. Sure. I have no issue with it.
Aquavelvaman
Member
(06-21-2008, 04:34 PM)
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If they weren't all 1-2 minutes it would bother me, but honestly I've waited longer for some pc/psp games to load than it takes mgs4 to install an act. Did anyone play Morrowind on xbox?

Also

Originally Posted by Costanza

GTA has like a 3 minute load every time you boot the game...

Clinton514
Member
(06-21-2008, 04:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by chubigans

Wow, installs are 20 minutes now? :lol

As far as I can remember, DMC4 is the only game with a 20 min. install. It's puzzling because I've played games that install the same amount of data (approx. 4gb) within 3-5mins.
tha_con
Banned
(06-21-2008, 04:34 PM)
There is so much FUD and idiocy in this thread it's awesome :lol
Durante
A Deadly Premonition hit his Dark Soul like a bolt of Lightning: "I can make their games better."
(06-21-2008, 04:35 PM)
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I like installs, but I'd rather have the option of installing everything at once. Let me worry about disc space.

Originally Posted by Pureauthor

It's a couple of minutes every single time you want to play the game. If this was two minutes of 'Load times', this would be blasted all over the internet. And in practical terms, it's no different, so it should receive the same flak.

So you bought a PS3? Grats.
It's not "every single time you want to play the game". It's once per act, no more (and no less).
ElyrionX
a melancholic piano
a sea-blown wind
(06-21-2008, 04:36 PM)
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Tycho from Penny Arcade summed it up best:

Originally Posted by Tycho PA

In the space of our play experience, we've already seen two separate installs. The game is still broken up into discrete areas, which I found odd, the assumption being that if we were taking time out to install shit it was because we were doing it to sustain a single world. You would have a hard time convincing me that multiple installs over the course of playing a videogame are worse than disc swapping. This has become some kind of theological question on forums, a kind of philosophical pinata, except no matter how many times you strike it no reward is forthcoming. Blu-Ray is only a convenience if it is actually convenient, if it doesn't require concessions either at the beginning of an experience or at several points throughout. It's amazing to me that this is considered progress.

The Faceless Master
(06-21-2008, 04:36 PM)
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as several people have said before, there's a Sony TRC that limits install size for games to 5GB, so MGS4 literally *cannot* install the whole game. they overwrite part of the install each act.
Rez
(06-21-2008, 04:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElyrionX

So you don't see an issue with a game having loading that are a couple of minutes long?

If they are placed tastefully to improve the games performance and future load times then I'm all for it. It isn't KojiPro's fault Sony chose Blu-Ray and then imposed an install limit.

EDIT: And please don't use the "lazy developer" thing here, MGS4 is many things; lazy isn't one of them.
Last edited by Rez; 06-21-2008 at 04:39 PM.
Kowak
Banned
(06-21-2008, 04:36 PM)
I dont mind it as waiting two minutes wont end my life. If Doing it this way means generally slower loading times for everything else then that is ok.
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
(06-21-2008, 04:37 PM)
Wow, MGS DF arrived late

Yes, the install system is retarded and I hope it doesn't become a trend in console gaming.
tha_con
Banned
(06-21-2008, 04:39 PM)

Originally Posted by ElyrionX

Tycho from Penny Arcade summed it up best:

Dude, Tycho is a fucking retarded, he didnt' sum up shit. The Installs come to the benefit of the game, coupled with the amount of data that can be stored on Blu-Ray. I think it's quite obvious Tycho has his 'preference' with consoles, and he hasn't been afraid to voice that opinion in the past.
Clinton514
Member
(06-21-2008, 04:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElyrionX

Tycho from Penny Arcade summed it up best:

:lol Right. Those guys and their selective chastising opinions.
MrTroubleMaker
(06-21-2008, 04:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Faceless Master

as several people have said before, there's a Sony TRC that limits install size for games to 5GB, so MGS4 literally *cannot* install the whole game. they overwrite part of the install each act.

To bad they couldn't have been allowed to go larger, I would rather have 1 big install instead of what we ended up with.
ElyrionX
a melancholic piano
a sea-blown wind
(06-21-2008, 04:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by chubigans

Wow, installs are 20 minutes now? :lol

I guess you're too dumb to see what I mean.

Add up all the installs you do throughout five chapters and that initial long installation and I'm pretty sure you'll get 20 minutes. Also, if you play through the game more than once, the total time spent staring at the installation screen increases even more. That's not something DMC4 had.
Duke Togo
Member
(06-21-2008, 04:40 PM)
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I will gladly accept this trend if every game that makes use of this install method is as good as MGS4.
chubigans
y'all should be ashamed
(06-21-2008, 04:41 PM)
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Blu-Ray is only a convenience if it is actually convenient, if it doesn't require concessions either at the beginning of an experience or at several points throughout. It's amazing to me that this is considered progress.

Oh give me a break.

We went from cartridges to CDs, and what were the downsides? Load times, and CD scratches. But the positives outweighed the negatives, and we moved forward. Many devs have eliminated load times altogether.

Now we have Blu-Ray instead of DVD. There are obvious benefits, but the downsides is what we see going on here in MGS. BD has come a long way since launch, and MGS 4 could have handled this a bit better methinks, but to somehow imply that DVD is a much more viable format than Blu-Ray is incredibly stupid.

I'll gladly eat those words if Xbox 720 still uses the DVD format.

Originally Posted by ElyrionX

I guess you're too dumb to see what I mean.

I think you're too stupid to realize what you're typing. :p
gconsole
Member
(06-21-2008, 04:41 PM)
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Mod. Please change topic from good to bad trend. Just my own miscommunication.

And yeah, if you take it as loading time (no matter what it is now loading or now installing) then this is not a good thing at all. I don't know why we still have this issue with the new generation of console. I remember my bad memory from long now loading since PS era. It's just getting worse.
mr_bishiuk
Banned
(06-21-2008, 04:41 PM)
Is the ISO confirmed at 30gigs? if so 4 DVD's could hold the game for 360 and if the game is broken into acts and requires install the 360 version could just have a 20 second disc swap instead. Not that I think it would be worth Konami's time in porting it.
ElyrionX
a melancholic piano
a sea-blown wind
(06-21-2008, 04:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by tha_con

Dude, Tycho is a fucking retarded, he didnt' sum up shit. The Installs come to the benefit of the game, coupled with the amount of data that can be stored on Blu-Ray. I think it's quite obvious Tycho has his 'preference' with consoles, and he hasn't been afraid to voice that opinion in the past.

:lol

Are you fucking kidding me?
Formless
Member
(06-21-2008, 04:43 PM)
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I don't really mind them. I'm not goddamn impatient.
tha_con
Banned
(06-21-2008, 04:43 PM)

Originally Posted by ElyrionX

I guess you're too dumb to see what I mean.

Add up all the installs you do throughout five chapters and that initial long installation and I'm pretty sure you'll get 20 minutes. Also, if you play through the game more than once, the total time spent staring at the installation screen increases even more. That's not something DMC4 had.

How long does it take to load certain segments of Halo 3 each time you play? Quite a few minutes.

GTA IV? Same.

Also, it's 19 minutes the first time you play, to include the intial install, after that, it's roughly 12 minutes of install times TOTAL for all the acts.

If you play GTA IV 5 separate times in one day, you're already waiting longer on THOSE load times than you are on MGS4 install times.
Pureauthor
(06-21-2008, 04:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Durante

So you bought a PS3? Grats.
It's not "every single time you want to play the game". It's once per act, no more (and no less).

No, I don't have a PS3 yet - I don't need one to play the game. (Haven't completed it yet, though...)

Also, yeah, that was poorly worded on my part, but everyone should know what I mean.

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