[Alucrid]

Okay, so I'm coming here for a little preamp help. The Emotiva USP-1 that kevm3 was talking about looks great. It has everything I need, mainly phono input and high pass and sub out for monitor and sub additions later on. However, at the moment I'd need a preamp with two full range RCA outputs for my bookshelf speakers and headphone amp. Any one have any suggestions within the same price range and with the same features?

Or

A DAC similar in price and performance to the DACMagic that has two RCA outputs.

[nitewulf]

hang on, pre-amps wont have speaker outputs. you need an integrated amplifier. pre-amps are designed to pass the signal to power amps, which in turn output signals to drive speakers.

[kevm3]

My passive combo is working very well, so I'm putting up the USP-1 for sale for $235 shipped if any of you gaffers are interested (CONUS only). I just want to let one of you get an opportunity with it before I put it up for sale on the emotiva forums.

I can't find the manual, but it comes with the remote and is in great condition except for a scratch on the top near the back. DAC must have scratched it. If you can live with a scratch and a manual, then nearly half off of the new price.

Front view
http://i53.************/9umdll.jpg

Scratch under normal lighting
http://i54.************/23jhh60.jpg

Scratch illuminated under direct lamplight
http://i56.************/2rgbyua.jpg

[The Lamonster]

Best 2.1 PC speakers in the ~$150-200 price range. GO!

[Alucrid]

hang on, pre-amps wont have speaker outputs. you need an integrated amplifier. pre-amps are designed to pass the signal to power amps, which in turn output signals to drive speakers.

My bookshelf speakers are internally amplified and they have an RCA audio input, so that's not a problem. Plus, when I go get monitors I'd just run the High Pass to the amp.

My passive combo is working very well, so I'm putting up the USP-1 for sale for $235 shipped if any of you gaffers are interested (CONUS only). I just want to let one of you get an opportunity with it before I put it up for sale on the emotiva forums. I can't find the manual, but it comes with the remote and is in great condition except for a scratch on the top near the back. DAC must have scratched it. If you can live with a scratch and a manual, then nearly half off of the new price. Front view http://i53.************/9umdll.jpg Scratch under normal lighting http://i54.************/23jhh60.jpg Scratch illuminated under direct lamplight http://i56.************/2rgbyua.jpg

I might take you up on that...can't see the pics at work though. I'll take a gander later tonight.

[nitewulf]

right, i get you, but i don't think they design pre-amps and dacs with speaker outputs. only L/R signal outputs. you know what i'm saying?

[Alucrid]

right, i get you, but i don't think they design pre-amps and dacs with speaker outputs. only L/R signal outputs. you know what i'm saying?

Edited my post real quick up there to clarify. But yeah, that's why when I get monitors the USP-1 would be fine because the high pass would run to the amp and the full could run to the headphone amp, but right now since I have the headphone amp and speakers taking inputs from RCA cables, only having one output and having to switch between them would be a pain. Of course I could always just man up and take it because in the long run it won't matter and at the price kevm3 is sell for...that could very well make me do so.

[kevm3]

Okay, so I'm coming here for a little preamp help. The Emotiva USP-1 that kevm3 was talking about looks great. It has everything I need, mainly phono input and high pass and sub out for monitor and sub additions later on. However, at the moment I'd need a preamp with two full range RCA outputs for my bookshelf speakers and headphone amp. Any one have any suggestions within the same price range and with the same features? Or A DAC similar in price and performance to the DACMagic that has two RCA outputs.

What amplifier are you using for your bookshelves at the moment?

[Alucrid]

What amplifier are you using for your bookshelves at the moment?

Sorry, misspoke. I meant to say "active loudspeakers" not bookshelf...they're swan M200MK3s, so no amp at the moment.

[kevm3]

Sorry, misspoke. I meant to say "active loudspeakers" not bookshelf...they're swan M200MK3s, so no amp at the moment.

If you did decide to go with the USP, you could hook the headphone amp to the full pass and the speakers to the high pass. Bookshelves would sound better going through the high pass even without a sub since you won't be sending them all of that bass information that they will have trouble reproducing. It's how I had the Mentors hooked up until I was able to afford a sub (through the high-pass). The only problem I would forsee is that both the headphones and the speakers would play since the preamp would send the signal to both at the same time. You would have to cut off the headphone amp or the speakers to avoid having them play at the same time.

** Update. I've found the manual and put it in the box.

[Alucrid]

If you did decide to go with the USP, you could hook the headphone amp to the full pass and the speakers to the high pass. Bookshelves would sound better going through the high pass even without a sub since you won't be sending them all of that bass information that they will have trouble reproducing. It's how I had the Mentors hooked up until I was able to afford a sub (through the high-pass). The only problem I would forsee is that both the headphones and the speakers would play since the preamp would send the signal to both at the same time. You would have to cut off the headphone amp or the speakers to avoid having them play at the same time. ** Update. I've found the manual and put it in the box.

Well that solves that, and luckily both the headphone amp and speakers have on/off switches.

[CurlySaysX]

Hey Ya'll.
I decided to get the Audioenergy A5s and the 3.5mm audio in jack at the top seems broken.
It works but when i wobble the plug the audio cuts in and out, is this a design flaw or is the top panel of my unit broked?
BTW these speakers sound really,really, ultra shit with the pc onboard soundcard. I had to dust off an old creative card to get the thing to sound acceptable.

[kevm3]

Hey Ya'll. I decided to get the Audioenergy A5s and the 3.5mm audio in jack at the top seems broken. It works but when i wobble the plug the audio cuts in and out, is this a design flaw or is the top panel of my unit broked? BTW these speakers sound really,really, ultra shit with the pc onboard soundcard. I had to dust off an old creative card to get the thing to sound acceptable.

Sounds like there's not a proper connection being made if the sound cuts out with you wiggling the plugs.

[Davidion]

Hey Ya'll. I decided to get the Audioenergy A5s and the 3.5mm audio in jack at the top seems broken. It works but when i wobble the plug the audio cuts in and out, is this a design flaw or is the top panel of my unit broked? BTW these speakers sound really,really, ultra shit with the pc onboard soundcard. I had to dust off an old creative card to get the thing to sound acceptable.

PC onboards are absolutely miserable for anything unless you're going optical.

[Metroid]

Would you suggest buying these:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_m...utsprecher.htm

and an active subwoofer in terms of audio quality?

[scorcho]

Hey Ya'll. I decided to get the Audioenergy A5s and the 3.5mm audio in jack at the top seems broken. It works but when i wobble the plug the audio cuts in and out, is this a design flaw or is the top panel of my unit broked? BTW these speakers sound really,really, ultra shit with the pc onboard soundcard. I had to dust off an old creative card to get the thing to sound acceptable.

you mean Audioengine? from your description, that top input jack seems defective. thankfully, Audioengine has an amazingfantasticsuper warranty. they'll send you a replacement speaker ASAP and you can simply box and return back your defective left speaker in that packaging. give them a call!

also, what internal soundchip do you have? the latest realtek HD integrated chips are pretty damn good, and i find it nearly impossible to spot any difference between that and my USB DAC - http://www.headfonia.com/audinst-hud-mx1-dac/

[Shubit]

Would you suggest buying these: http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_m...utsprecher.htm and an active subwoofer in terms of audio quality?

I'd like to hear an opinion on those too. Mainly interested in them because of the optical in; any good alternatives in this regard?

[giga]

Onkyo is having a decent sale on their refurb units (1 year warranty): http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthr...=#post35660231

The TX-8255 is a damn fine stereo amp/receiver and at $90 it’s a steal.

[drifter444]

I am really considering these. Do they seem reasonable?

Creative Labs GigaWorks T3
price:$199.99

http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Labs-.../dp/B001S10DDO

[giga]

I am really considering these. Do they seem reasonable? Creative Labs GigaWorks T3 price:$199.99 http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Labs-.../dp/B001S10DDO

Looks like your average 2.1 computer speakers with teeny satellites.

[drifter444]

How about the Creative GigaWorks T40. I heard that they are pretty good.

[Meier]

I absolutely love the look of these:



Shame they're not sold any more it looks like. :(

[dr3upmushroom]

Looks like they're still for sell, unless those are the mkii's.

[WHOAguitarninja]

I absolutely love the look of these: Shame they're not sold any more it looks like. :(

http://www.theaudioinsider.com/produ...products_id=80

I just got a pair for christmas. I'm using my Zero DAC to A/B them against my Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 (line out to the Swans, heapdohne out to the Klipsch. I can switch between the two with the press of a button.).

They absolutely wipe the floor with the Klipsch. It's not even a contest.

They're big though. At least 4x the size of the Klipsch.

[kevm3]

This amp was just what was needed. At one point I was thinking about selling the speakers for something else, but now I'm to the point where I'm afraid to change them because I like the sound so much. System synergy is a must. This combo has me just lost in the performances. Every cent well spent.

[CurlySaysX]

you mean Audioengine? from your description, that top input jack seems defective. thankfully, Audioengine has an amazingfantasticsuper warranty. they'll send you a replacement speaker ASAP and you can simply box and return back your defective left speaker in that packaging. give them a call! also, what internal soundchip do you have? the latest realtek HD integrated chips are pretty damn good, and i find it nearly impossible to spot any difference between that and my USB DAC - http://www.headfonia.com/audinst-hud-mx1-dac/

Yep. I meant the Audioengine 5.
I live in OZ so I think the cost of shipping back for replacement isn't really that convenient. I plugged in one of those L plug extension cords that come with Sony Earphones and when wobbled it the sound didn't cut out at all, so I think i'll just use that for now.

My internal sound card is a VIA Vinyl HD Audio. It was fine with my previous speakers which had SPDIF input, but it makes the A5s sound like cheap generic speakers.
I like Bass and when I turned up the bass it distorted but the bass it produce was not powerful at all, and the highs made my ears hurt.
The creative card produces good, clean , powerful bass and trebles are not as harsh.

[Bitmap Frogs]

This amp was just what was needed. At one point I was thinking about selling the speakers for something else, but now I'm to the point where I'm afraid to change them because I like the sound so much. System synergy is a must. This combo has me just lost in the performances. Every cent well spent.

You might want to consider audiophile-grade pebbles to improve the soundstage and extract more micro-information from your sources: http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm

[kevm3]

You might want to consider audiophile-grade pebbles to improve the soundstage and extract more micro-information from your sources: http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm

Yeah, putting a Class A amp into the system is the same thing as using pebbles.

[Bitmap Frogs]

Yeah, putting a Class A amp into the system is the same thing as using pebbles.

In blind listening tests people couldn't hear any difference between a Class A Mark Levinson 333 and a Class whatever Yamaha receiver.

Class A is an audiophile myth =/

[kevm3]

In blind listening tests people couldn't hear any difference between a Class A Mark Levinson 333 and a Class whatever Yamaha receiver. Class A is an audiophile myth =/

There is nothing mythical about a Class A amp.
Class A is merely a type of amp design

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...lifier#Class_A

Amplifying devices operating in Class A conduct over the whole of the input cycle such that the output signal is an exact scaled-up replica of the input with no clipping. A Class A amplifier (or operational amplifier) is distinguished by the output stage (and perhaps the driver) device(s) being biased into Class A; even Class AB and B amplifiers normally have early stages operating in Class A.



In what blind listening test was this? What speakers were used?

[scorcho]

Yep. I meant the Audioengine 5. I live in OZ so I think the cost of shipping back for replacement isn't really that convenient. I plugged in one of those L plug extension cords that come with Sony Earphones and when wobbled it the sound didn't cut out at all, so I think i'll just use that for now. My internal sound card is a VIA Vinyl HD Audio. It was fine with my previous speakers which had SPDIF input, but it makes the A5s sound like cheap generic speakers. I like Bass and when I turned up the bass it distorted but the bass it produce was not powerful at all, and the highs made my ears hurt. The creative card produces good, clean , powerful bass and trebles are not as harsh.

i think Audioengine sends you back a free shipping label inside the box, but you should call and ask when their office/customer support reopens after the Christmas holiday.

[Bitmap Frogs]

There is nothing mythical about a Class A amp. Class A is merely a type of amp design http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...lifier#Class_A Amplifying devices operating in Class A conduct over the whole of the input cycle such that the output signal is an exact scaled-up replica of the input with no clipping. A Class A amplifier (or operational amplifier) is distinguished by the output stage (and perhaps the driver) device(s) being biased into Class A; even Class AB and B amplifiers normally have early stages operating in Class A. In what blind listening test was this? What speakers were used?

A myth in the sense that they are supposed to sound better. Speakers were the revel performa f30 hooked with audiophile grade cabling.

Details:

Amp 1 -------- Previo MARK LEVINSON Nº 38S + Etapa MARK LEVINSON Nº 333
Amp 2 -------- YAMAHA RX-V 540 (AV básico)

Lector CD-------------- Sony SACD XA3000ES (Premio EISA 2004)
Cables 1 -------------- MIT Mi-330 PLUS Terminator + Audioquest Emerald
Cables 2 -------------- Rojo/negro estándar
SpeKers ----------------- Revel Performa F30 + Cables audiófilos

[WEGGLES]

I got speakers for xmas, but they won't fit where I need them to fit, so I'm looking for a different set...

Are these decent speakers
http://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-Studio...3298642&sr=8-3

And is would this cable be what I need to hook them up?

http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CPR-203-A...ef=pd_sim_MI_6

Fairly certain about the cable, but better safe than sorry :lol

These will be for listening to records on my turntable.

[kevm3]

I got speakers for xmas, but they won't fit where I need them to fit, so I'm looking for a different set... Are these decent speakers http://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-Studio...3298642&sr=8-3 And is would this cable be what I need to hook them up? http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CPR-203-A...ef=pd_sim_MI_6 Fairly certain about the cable, but better safe than sorry :lol These will be for listening to records on my turntable.

http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CMP159-St..._bxgy_MI_img_b

You would need this cable. Single 1/4 out which will go into your computer and plug each 1/4 end into those speakers.

[WEGGLES]

http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CMP159-St..._bxgy_MI_img_b You would need this cable. Single 1/4 out which will go into your computer and plug each 1/4 end into those speakers.

It's for my turntable, so I need the RCA connectors. I was more worried about the other ends of the cable :lol

[kevm3]

A myth in the sense that they are supposed to sound better. Speakers were the revel performa f30 hooked with audiophile grade cabling.

So your Yamaha sounds the exact same as any brand $75 dollar receiver from best buy, or it would sound the same if you hooked your speakers to the receiver section of a $100 boombox?

I have an HK3490 stereo receiver I was using only the amplifier section prior to installing the Plinius and it sounds nothing like the Plinius.

[kevm3]

It's for my turntable, so I need the RCA connectors. I was more worried about the other ends of the cable :lol

How do you hook your turntable up to speakers currently? It seems the speakers you posted has 1/4 connections so the original wires you posted should do the trick if your turntable allows you to hook directly to the speakers.

[ngower]

Weggles, do you have an amplifier? I'm sure you have the Debut III if I recall correctly? Basically, are powered speakers necessary?

[Dreams-Visions]

http://www.theaudioinsider.com/produ...products_id=80 I just got a pair for christmas. I'm using my Zero DAC to A/B them against my Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 (line out to the Swans, heapdohne out to the Klipsch. I can switch between the two with the press of a button.). They absolutely wipe the floor with the Klipsch. It's not even a contest. They're big though. At least 4x the size of the Klipsch.

If these are recommended, I'll pick up a set.

but I really don't have any PC audio equipment to speak of beyond some really nice headphones and amps powerful enough to drive them (and by that I mean, nothing that I expect will support serious desktop audio, but might?).

my desktop amp is this guy



Fiio E9. pretty basic stuff.

what kind of stuff should I be looking for to compliment a set of speakers like in WHO's link? could I even get away with the E9 amp with a nice preamp? or do these speakers even need a pre-amp?

[WEGGLES]

How do you hook your turntable up to speakers currently? It seems the speakers you posted has 1/4 connections so the original wires you posted should do the trick if your turntable allows you to hook directly to the speakers.

I go out RCA from my turntable to my pre-amp that also has RCA out. That goes to my speakers.

The speakers I'm looking to get don't have RCA in. So that's why I was asking about the cables I posted. They should be fine though.

Weggles, do you have an amplifier? I'm sure you have the Debut III if I recall correctly? Basically, are powered speakers necessary?

I have a Pre-amp, but not an amp. (Well I do have an old Nad amp my dad has, but it's gigantic and I don't really have room for it with my current setup.

[Alucrid]

If these are recommended, I'll pick up a set. but I really don't have any PC audio equipment to speak of beyond some really nice headphones and amps powerful enough to drive them (and by that I mean, nothing that I expect will support serious desktop audio, but might?). my desktop amp is this guy [IMG]http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/159/spd20101121234139b.jpg[IMG] Fiio E9. pretty basic stuff. what kind of stuff should I be looking for to compliment a set of speakers like in WHO's link? could I even get away with the E9 amp with a nice preamp? or do these speakers even need a pre-amp?

Unless you need the extra connections a pre amp isn't that necessary. Perhaps a DAC. I guess you would do the E7/E9 combo? I dunno. Personally I'd go for something a little higher, but you don't really need too much for those speakers.

[Dreams-Visions]

Unless you need the extra connections a pre amp isn't that necessary. Perhaps a DAC. I guess you would do the E7/E9 combo? I dunno. Personally I'd go for something a little higher, but you don't really need too much for those speakers.

sweet. thanks!

and yes, I'd just be using my E7/E9 combo. for starters. I don't know if I'd want to go "all in" for my PC rig, as it wouldn't be my primary listening location. I'd rather put that money into my main home audio setup in my living room where I'd do most of that kind of listening. so something that's really good, but not necessarily "Godlike" is fine for around the desktop in the den.

I'll probably order the M200MKII's next week.

[Alucrid]

sweet. thanks! and yes, I'd just be using my E7/E9 combo. for starters. I don't know if I'd want to go "all in" for my PC rig, as it wouldn't be my primary listening location. I'd rather put that money into my main home audio setup in my living room where I'd do most of that kind of listening. so something that's really good, but not necessarily "Godlike" is fine for around the desktop in the den. I'll probably order the M200MKII's next week.

Then yeah, the F7/E9 combo should be fine for those bookshelf speakers and it's it solely for the PC then a preamp isn't necessary. Right now my M200MKIIIs are just hooked up to my tubemagic D1 and the results are very impressive for the price.

[ThanksVision]

nvm

[Bitmap Frogs]

So your Yamaha sounds the exact same as any brand $75 dollar receiver from best buy, or it would sound the same if you hooked your speakers to the receiver section of a $100 boombox? I have an HK3490 stereo receiver I was using only the amplifier section prior to installing the Plinius and it sounds nothing like the Plinius.

Blind test with matched outputs to the milivolt or bust, brother.

The brain plays tricks on us.

[nitewulf]

Blind test with matched outputs to the milivolt or bust, brother. The brain plays tricks on us.

it could work both ways though, make distorted signals sound good as well, make cheaper equipment sound good in your mind. class A, A/B, D all work in different fashion, not to mention a less powerful amp will get saturated a lot earlier than a more powerful one. my 50 watt amp lost dynamics and used to shut off at high volumes, my 250 watt amp does music effortlessly. definitely not at all the same.

theoretically, an amp amplifies signals, true, but there are many designs. it would be presumptuous to think they would all sound the same. even in my electronics courses, perfect sinewave input signals were distorted to hell at the output of the feedback amps we used to build on bread boards. if you listened to it, it'd probably sound a lot closer to the input signal than it looked. yet, a better circuit yielding a closer approximation of the input signal would possibly sound even closer. basic circuit elements have +- tolerances to deal with, hence the closer to tolerance a device is made, ie, the more precise it is in regards to its ratings, the more expensive it is. because its harder to make it. that doesn't mean these materials have to be hand made, and cost 1000s...a good quality amp could probably very well be manufactured under $100 using off the shelf, but measured and carefully selected elements.

now better is a different issue, a lot of the times better signal isnt necessarily an accurate amplification. what sounds pleasing is subjective, and at the end of the day you guys have no talking points, even if you keep forcing the idea about psychoacoustics. what is the point if at the end of the day, the listener is more pleased with the new setup? what does it matter?

now, better power chords, usb cables and so forth, yes i would call BS on that. the power is being drawn from the outlet, through a passive conductor, and there should be no reason at all for a more expensive cable to make the power AC signal nicer for your equipment, by default its passive. if its doing anything to the signal, then its not a good cable to begin with.

[Bitmap Frogs]

theoretically, an amp amplifies signals, true, but there are many designs. it would be presumptuous to think they would all sound the same.

But that's what the results of blind listening tests suggest, Nitewulf.

With matched outputs and no visuals to indicate what's the piece of gear working people can't distinguish between a priced AAAA+ Mark Levinson and a run of the mill Yamaha receiver.

The only logical conclusion is that electronics design has progressed to the point we can make gear that sounds better than what our ears can hear for cheap.

The same blind listening tests suggest as well that audiophile cabling is nothing but a scam.

[Kylehimself]

Can somebody recommend me a set of decent speakers for around the £100 mark please?

[thesoapster]

But that's what the results of blind listening tests suggest, Nitewulf.

Are you going to cite this test? Even so, that test really does not prove much. When I played computer games with my neighbors they couldn't tell when textures were turned down, and didn't think higher resolutions improved anything (so they usually played at 800x600). To an extent you have to know what to look for and actually expect something. It took me a little while listening to my previous audio setup to really start noticing all the small different parts in each song. When my brother (who uses the Klipsch 2.1 speakers I used to have) compared the two systems he didn't notice anything special. If I hear the same music now on the Klipsch it's ridiculous how much better my setup is. So, just getting some random people who are probably used to listening to the radio through their car stereos or maybe some shitty iPod earbuds is not really a valid test in my book.

Back to back comparison done between my two amplifiers (Yamaha A-S700 and Vincent SV-236MK) showed me that the Vincent produced a crisper, cleaner, clearer sound. Tested the same sets of songs on each at the same volume.

[Bitmap Frogs]

Are you going to cite this test? Even so, that test really does not prove much. When I played computer games with my neighbors they couldn't tell when textures were turned down, and didn't think higher resolutions improved anything (so they usually played at 800x600). To an extent you have to know what to look for and actually expect something. It took me a little while listening to my previous audio setup to really start noticing all the small different parts in each song. When my brother (who uses the Klipsch 2.1 speakers I used to have) compared the two systems he didn't notice anything special. If I hear the same music now on the Klipsch it's ridiculous how much better my setup is. So, just getting some random people who are probably used to listening to the radio through their car stereos or maybe some shitty iPod earbuds is not really a valid test in my book.

Nice try, but the people who went through the test were.... drum roll, audiophiles.

By the way, the discussion is only about electronics. Loudspeakers do have noticeable differences.

These are the kind of setups the guys at Matrix HiFi use for their blind listening tests: http://matrixhifi.com/contenedor_ppec.htm