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Dizzle24
Member
(01-19-2009, 04:10 PM)
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Why aren't there more games available that run at 60 frames per second? I mean.. seriously.

2 out of my collection of 13 PS3 games are running around 60 frames per second; Devil May Cry 4 and Burnout Paradise.

Why is this such a difficult task for current generation game developers?

When can we expect most, if not all games to be running at this speed on consoles?
John Dunbar
correct about everything
(01-19-2009, 04:11 PM)
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i can't tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps.
BobsRevenge
I do not avoid women, GAF, but I do deny them my essence.
(01-19-2009, 04:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by John Dunbar

i can't tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps.

Play Wipeout HD in spiltscreen if you're curious about the difference. :lol

The game is, like, twice as hard to play when it runs at 30fps during it instead of 60fps.
Last edited by BobsRevenge; 01-19-2009 at 04:21 PM.
Spire
Subconscious Brolonging
(01-19-2009, 04:12 PM)
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PC gaming ftw.
oneHeero
Member
(01-19-2009, 04:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by John Dunbar

i can't tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps.

60 FPS-Defense Force will say you have horrible eye sight.
Fewr
Member
(01-19-2009, 04:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by John Dunbar

i can't tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps.

I can't either. I'm glad about it though, for it saves me from lots of nerd rage posts.
border
Banned
(01-19-2009, 04:14 PM)
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Because gamers can't tell much of a difference and developers are lazy/sloppy. You're lucky to find console games that even maintain 30 fps all the time, these days.

Come to the PC darkside if you want 60 FPS.
Jax
Banned
(01-19-2009, 04:14 PM)
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...well, the reason why its lacking is because visuals/FX over framerate. oh well, I don't care. I like visuals. For a lot of genres, it don't matter.
Zombie James
(01-19-2009, 04:14 PM)
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Well, 60fps is always ideal but 30fps is still smooth. You only really start noticing things becoming stuttery when you get into the sub-20fps range.
sykoex
Lost all credibility.
(01-19-2009, 04:14 PM)
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People expect too much from visual quality of games for devs to worry about framerate. The same thing will happen next gen.
BobsRevenge
I do not avoid women, GAF, but I do deny them my essence.
(01-19-2009, 04:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by oneHeero

60 FPS-Defense Force will say you have horrible eye sight.

The main thing is being aware of the cues as to what the frame-rate is. Once you can see it it can't be unseen and you begin to realize the detriment of 30FPS, which frankly isn't a big deal at all to me anyways except in cases like Wipeout and Gran Turismo.

When I play PC games I set the settings as high as they can go to maintain 30fps. If I can get 60fps at the highest settings that's great, but I'll keep setting them higher until they drop below 30.
PuppetMaster
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(01-19-2009, 04:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dizzle24

Why aren't there more games available that run at 60 frames per second? I mean.. seriously.

2 out of my collection of 13 PS3 games are running around 60 frames per second; Devil May Cry 4 and Burnout Paradise.

Why is this such a difficult task for current generation game developers?

When can we expect most, if not all games to be running at this speed on consoles?

In my collection, games that run at 60 FPS are
Wipeout HD
GT5P
Ratchet & Clank Future
VF5
SC4
Tekken5 DR
Burnout
DMC4
Ninja Gaiden Sigma
Orlics
Member
(01-19-2009, 04:16 PM)
People who can't see 60 fps have probably never tweaked a PC game in their lives.
Nirolak
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(01-19-2009, 04:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dizzle24

When can we expect most, if not all games to be running at this speed on consoles?

Probably never, because the number of people who care about graphics tends to vastly outweigh the people who care about the difference between 30 fps and 60 fps.

I mean, for every foreseeable generation right now you can get better graphics by lowering the framerate.
ghst
thanks for the laugh
(01-19-2009, 04:16 PM)
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60fps is much harder to market than a game with superior iq.

the bigger concern is how often console games drop below 30fps (all the fucking time), that is unacceptable.
TheRagnCajun
(01-19-2009, 04:17 PM)
games running at sub-HD resolutions is the bigger issue, IMO
Mohonky
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(01-19-2009, 04:19 PM)
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Eh same argument every generation: Why aren't there more games at 60fps? Because developers push visual fidelity over frame rate. Personally I don't see a need for 60fps in many titles, 30fps locked is perfectly playable, games like WipeOut are definitely very cool at 60fps but I don't see it as essential and incidently, neither do many developers.
SolidSnakex
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(01-19-2009, 04:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dizzle24

a difficult task for current generation game developers?

When can we expect most, if not all games to be running at this speed on consoles?

Probably never since developers are going to continue to aim for really high visuals which end up impacting the framerate. Racing games and fighters are really the only two genres where you'll see quite a few 60fps games.
BobsRevenge
I do not avoid women, GAF, but I do deny them my essence.
(01-19-2009, 04:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheRagnCajun

games running at sub-HD resolutions is the bigger issue, IMO

Oh my God yes. I fucking hate it. Looks terrible. MGS4 would've looked absolutely fantastic if not for it. Instead it just looks pretty muddy. Halo 3 is terribly ugly to look at in general because of it coupled with a lack of AA.
cameltoe
Member
(01-19-2009, 04:20 PM)
cod 4 runs at 60fps for the most part
Dunlop
DID YOU KNOW:
TLOU invented the HD Remaster?
Also, Halo is the first FPS.
(01-19-2009, 04:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by BobsRevenge

Oh my God yes. I fucking hate it. Looks terrible. MGS4 would've looked absolutely fantastic if not for it. Instead it just looks pretty muddy. Halo 3 is terribly ugly to look at in general because of it coupled with a lack of AA.

Terribly ugly?

.......really?

edit: ah not in HD..gotcha. My bad
JudgeN
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(01-19-2009, 04:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by BobsRevenge

Oh my God yes. I fucking hate it. Looks terrible. MGS4 would've looked absolutely fantastic if not for it. Instead it just looks pretty muddy. Halo 3 is terribly ugly to look at in general because of it coupled with a lack of AA.

MGS4 looked clean as shit for something sub HD, never would have noticed until someone told me.
Threi
notag
(01-19-2009, 04:22 PM)
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i swear to god we have this thread every week :lol


anyways the answers haven't changed:


1. Developers want to slab framerate-killing effects all over their game.
2. Console gamers generally want to play games that have framerate-killing effects slabbed all over it.
Mohonky
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(01-19-2009, 04:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by cameltoe

cod 4 runs at 60fps for the most part

At a sub HD resolution.
minx88
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(01-19-2009, 04:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by sykoex

People expect too much from visual quality of games for devs to worry about framerate. The same thing will happen next gen.


This. Personally I would rather have an amazing looking game LOCKED at 30 fps at 720p over a alright looking game at 60fps at 1080p. I'm actually hoping next generation Sony or Microsoft doesn't do something stupid like require all games to be at 1080p.
BobsRevenge
I do not avoid women, GAF, but I do deny them my essence.
(01-19-2009, 04:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dunlop

Terribly ugly?

.......really?

edit: ah not in HD..gotcha. My bad

Yeah man, if that game was in 720p with some 2x AA it would've been gorgeous aside from the horrible, horrible faces they slapped onto the characters.

edit: @JudgeN, I thought the game looked muddy as shit the first time I saw it and then when I was told it wasn't actually 720p I was like "OH! That's what that was." It kind of looks clean, but certainly not as clean as it would at 720p. I thought on the whole MGS4 was a pretty ugly game, and the sub-HD resolution had a lot to do with that along with the muted colors where one color pretty much took over the screen. It all just looked very muddy to me a lot of the time. There were a few scenes that were absolutely jaw-dropping though, but those were exceptions to the general ugliness of the game.
Last edited by BobsRevenge; 01-19-2009 at 04:27 PM.
ghst
thanks for the laugh
(01-19-2009, 04:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by cameltoe

cod 4 runs at 60fps for the most part

i'd say more around high 40's/low 50's.

jesus fraps, what have you done to me?
jay
Member
(01-19-2009, 04:24 PM)
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I find the willingness of developers to sacrifice performance on the alter of presentation this generation to be abhorrent.
Stink
Member
(01-19-2009, 04:25 PM)
lock at 30 first, then try and lock at 60. Anything under this sucks. Tearing sucks.
soldat7
(01-19-2009, 04:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by BobsRevenge

Play Wipeout HD in spiltscreen if you're curious about the difference. :lol

The game is, like, twice as hard to play when it runs at 30fps during it instead of 60fps.

Wipeout is actually a better game at 30fps. I wish console games would allow you to toggle the fps like on PC. I don't like the 'soap opera' look of games at 60fps for most games (racing, FPS in particular). 60fps for platformers, fighting games, and action games is great though.
Campster
Do you like my tight white sweater? STOP STARING
(01-19-2009, 04:26 PM)
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Clearly we are failing as a medium if we can't hit 60 frames per second.
Stinkles
sober, clothed, willing
(01-19-2009, 04:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Orlics

People who can't see 60 fps have probably never tweaked a PC game in their lives.


They barely even count as human. We're so much better than they are, it's not even funny. Also, I listen to music exclusively on vynil through crystal valve amps.
Pojo
Banned
(01-19-2009, 04:26 PM)

Originally Posted by Mohonky

At a sub HD resolution.

Still looks better because of the 60FPS. It has an incredibly smooth feel to it. I got over the mediocre graphics quickly. I think it's quite silly in retrospect to be concerned with the graphics because sooner or later, everything will look like Goldeneye. I only wish Perfect Dark had a decent framerate.

What does World at War run at, if anyone knows?
Raistlin
Post Count: 9999
(01-19-2009, 04:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dizzle24

Why is this such a difficult task for current generation game developers?

Because neither console is particularly well-suited to output HD graphics with lots of effects/etc.
soldat7
(01-19-2009, 04:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Campster

Clearly we are failing as a medium if we can't hit 60 frames per second.

60fps is not clearly better though.
chandoog
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(01-19-2009, 04:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by John Dunbar

i can't tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps.


ditto.

and im glad otherwise i might have been obsessing over it too like some folks here.
Threi
notag
(01-19-2009, 04:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by OuterWorldVoice

They barely even count as human. We're so much better than they are, it's not even funny. Also, I listen to music exclusively on vynil through crystal valve amps.

If they talk the talk they should be willing to walk the walk.
Stitch
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(01-19-2009, 04:28 PM)
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most games don't even manage to stay at 30
Raide
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(01-19-2009, 04:29 PM)
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I can tell the difference but as long as it does not drop way below 30, I don't really care. :lol
Shnookums
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(01-19-2009, 04:30 PM)
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People really don't notice how buttery smooth COD games are compared to other shooters? It's freakishly smooth coming from other shooters.
kodt
Banned
(01-19-2009, 04:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by soldat7

Wipeout is actually a better game at 30fps. I wish console games would allow you to toggle the fps like on PC. I don't like the 'soap opera' look of games at 60fps for most games (racing, FPS in particular). 60fps for platformers, fighting games, and action games is great though.

... we are talking about the soap opera look in games now?

As far as I am concerned higher is always better for games, 100-120fps would be ideal.

I can feel a difference between 60 and 100 in CS 1.6.

30fps is fine for single player, but too low for MP unless everyone else is locked at 30 as well.
callous
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(01-19-2009, 04:30 PM)
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Yeah, the more 60FPS the better. It's not that it's visually immediately apparent to me, but it makes everything feel more instantaneous, more live.
ja30278
Member
(01-19-2009, 04:31 PM)
because you can't see framerate in screenshots.
Ysiadmihi
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(01-19-2009, 04:31 PM)
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A mixture of hardware not being up to the task + developers who are unwillingly to sacrifice visuals for the sake of smoother gameplay.
Dabookerman
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(01-19-2009, 04:35 PM)
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Call of Duty 4 is incredibly wow because of the framerate. The animations and experience over all is just that much more amazing. A lot of gamecube games were 60, and this was one reason why I was impressed with a lot of the games. Smash Bros, F-Zero especially. Damn
Dizzle24
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(01-19-2009, 04:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by callous

Yeah, the more 60FPS the better. It's not that it's visually immediately apparent to me, but it makes everything feel more instantaneous, more live.

This.

I don't obsess over the 30fps vs. 60fps.. but it makes the game feel more "alive."
Bo
shoot bullets from her arse
(01-19-2009, 04:46 PM)
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I can tell the difference between 30 and 60, but I don't really care. Aside from the PC, I've been playing games on a tube TV, so I can't say I'm particularly concerned with image quality or antialiasing. There's things infinitely worse than jaggies, such as tearing (something you can't unsee if it gets bad, no matter what).
brain_stew
Hello friend! Have you heard the good news about Jesus PC gaming?
(01-19-2009, 04:49 PM)

Originally Posted by John Dunbar

i can't tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps.

Then you need to visit an optician because your eyes are broken. I'm deadly serious, the difference is that striking.
Ranger X
Kohler: 1, Ranger X: 0

PS: Itoi > Kojima by a good green country mile
(01-19-2009, 04:51 PM)
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For as long as 60fps isn't a selling point, devs and publisher will stay with the "30fps is smooth enough".

Hopefully gamers' exigences will rise over time. Right now most people don't give a crap.
TTP
Have a fun! Enjoy!
(01-19-2009, 04:52 PM)
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Yeah it's like COD4 didn't teach anything. Sadface.

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