Þe Olde Officially Sanctioned Sonic & the Black Knight Thread

[RobbieNick]

I'm back from work.

What? The credits already? I just defeated King Arthur. Something's up. I don't have control of the other three yet, and my Knighthood level is still low. NP said there was a plot twist after the credits.

OMG!! Major plot twist!! I've been playing just 3-4 hours so...... IGN stopped at the credits!! That's the only explanation!! (That, and it's obvious they REALLY hate Sonic.)HAHA! Man, they're pathetic! I don't even think this is the halfway point.

[Firestorm]

I'm back from work. What? The credits already? I just defeated King Arthur. Something's up. I don't have control of the other three yet, and my Knighthood level is still low. NP said there was a plot twist after the credits. OMG!! Major plot twist!! I've been playing just 3-4 hours so...... IGN stopped at the credits!! That's the only explanation!! (That, and it's obvious they REALLY hate Sonic.)HAHA! Man, they're pathetic! I don't even think this is the halfway point.

Are you delirious? Should we call someone? Reply if you're okay.

[RobbieNick]

Are you delirious? Should we call someone? Reply if you're okay.

Delirious from what? IGN said the game was only about 3-4 hours long. That's where the credits come in, but the game is no where close to finished. They were wrong and just finished up as quickly as possible. Hell, they probably only played the preview build as they even said Sega did not send them a review copy. How could they have the review up on it's shipping day? They'd have to be very lucky to find a copy on shipping day. Then, they'd only have a few hours to review it.

Face it, they barely got through half the game or less, and slapped on a score.

P.S. I'm now I'm control of the other three knights. Also, your weapon can now be crafted.

I'm going to re-read their review and see if they mention being in control of the other knights, or any of this other new stuff.

[abstract alien]

Delirious from what? IGN said the game was only about 3-4 hours long. That's where the credits come in, but the game is no where close to finished. They were wrong and just finished up as quickly as possible. Hell, they probably only played the preview build as they even said Sega did not send them a review copy. How could they have the review up on it's shipping day? They'd have to be very lucky to find a copy on shipping day. Then, they'd only have a few hours to review it. Face it, they barely got through half the game or less, and slapped on a score.

Ok...maybe Im slow, but you are completely serious when you say this right?

If so.... @ ign

[nightside]

Delirious from what? IGN said the game was only about 3-4 hours long. That's where the credits come in, but the game is no where close to finished. They were wrong and just finished up as quickly as possible. Hell, they probably only played the preview build as they even said Sega did not send them a review copy. How could they have the review up on it's shipping day? They'd have to be very lucky to find a copy on shipping day. Then, they'd only have a few hours to review it. Face it, they barely got through half the game or less, and slapped on a score. P.S. I'm now I'm control of the other three knights. Also, your weapon can now be crafted. I'm going to re-read their review and see if they mention being in control of the other knights, or any of this other new stuff.

If so..they will redefine the definition of "FAIL!"

[RocketDarkness]

Someone posted the Black Knight Instrumental Version of It Doesn't Matter on YouTube. It's uh...different. Not bad, but not as awesome as the original. But what could be?

[RobbieNick]

Proof.

"You can beat the primary single-player mode in a few hours and then you'll unlock some extra playable characters. But there's no point in going back unless you like torturing yourself."

Wrong. You do not "beat" the game, then unlock the characters. The game gives off a false ending with credits, then the major plot twist happens and the game continues with the ability to play as the other knights. The story is still going on. Did Matt actually think that little bit was the ending?!

BTW, how do I put in those spoiler tags so I can mention the twist in the story?

[abstract alien]

BTW, how do I put in those spoiler tags so I can mention the twist in the story?

[***spoiler]Insert spoiler here[/spoiler***]

Remove the asterisks and go to town

[grandjedi6]

RobbieNick, you're acting like you've discovered the scandal of the century and have forever owned IGN. But I kinda doubt (or at least hope) most people won't get riled up about Matt being tricked by a fake out credit scene of all things.

[Black-Wind]

You put -



Wow, I guess that didn't work.

And these wouldn't be the first time IGN reviewed a Sonic game before being half done. Didn't the shit score for the 360 SU come from a guy who people fond out (from his tag) was like 43% done with it or something?

[Zen]

RobbieNick, you're acting like you've discovered the scandal of the century and have forever owned IGN. But I kinda doubt (or at least hope) most people won't get riled up about Matt being tricked by a fake out credit scene of all things.

Why would you hope that people don't get rilled up about, if true, a video game reviewer revewing a non review copy and not even properly reviewing the game? Leading to him submitting an (even more) unprofessional review of a title to one of the biggest websites? You want people to be fine with that, why? Because it's a 3D Sonic game? Does that make a shocking lack of ethics and integrity 'ok'? :|

Get some damn perspective.

Authors note: I'm in a bad mood, don't take it personal.

[Yoshi]

You put - Wow, I guess that didn't work. And these wouldn't be the first time IGN reviewed a Sonic game before being half done. Didn't the shit score for the 360 SU come from a guy who people fond out (from his tag) was like 43% done with it or something?

Hey rescued 5 of the continents IIRC. That's about halfway through the story and moszt likely he has seen up to a third of the levels, and 10% of the missions.

[Sixfortyfive]

Those bastards! They only played up to the credits!

[abstract alien]

Those bastards! They only played up to the credits!

lmao title change now!
...ok, maybe im jumping the gun, but damnit

[Rez]

I really liked Secret Rings, I think it's a very under appreciated game. I'm going to at the very least give this a rent, I haven't been following much of the released media, but if it is more Secret Rings style gameplay I'm probably going to really enjoy it.

It looks very nice, if nothing else.

[GDGF]

Delirious from what? IGN said the game was only about 3-4 hours long. That's where the credits come in, but the game is no where close to finished. They were wrong and just finished up as quickly as possible. Hell, they probably only played the preview build as they even said Sega did not send them a review copy. How could they have the review up on it's shipping day? They'd have to be very lucky to find a copy on shipping day. Then, they'd only have a few hours to review it. Face it, they barely got through half the game or less, and slapped on a score. P.S. I'm now I'm control of the other three knights. Also, your weapon can now be crafted. I'm going to re-read their review and see if they mention being in control of the other knights, or any of this other new stuff.

That's pretty fucked up if true, actually. Wonder what Matt has to say about all this.

[CiSTM]

IGN 3.9 :(

Oh well, it's still looks good so I'm gonna give it a try.

Meanwhile i'll stick with LBP.

[Rolken]

Um, why does it matter if he only played to the first credits? He didn't review the game poorly for being short, he reviewed it poorly for being bad. The length didn't even come up until the very end. Do you really think that going through to the bitter end with all the side missions would have materially affected his opinion of the game?

[abstract alien]

Um, why does it matter if he only played to the first credits? He didn't review the game poorly for being short, he reviewed it poorly for being bad. The length didn't even come up until the very end. Do you really think that going through to the bitter end with all the side missions would have materially affected his opinion of the game?

If this game is like secret rings, then yes. That is one game that really did progressively get better and better. By the end of the game, it was damn near 10x more fun, imo.

[Rolken]

Sure, but only the stalwart Sonic fans would suffer through this kind of poor experience to get to the game not sucking werehog-style. He's not reviewing for them, he's reviewing for a general audience of gamers. The Sonic fans are going to buy the game anyway.

Plus Secret Rings was a very special case in that regard, and you could tell that was how the game worked from the beginning. How many games start out bad, continue being bad, and then suddenly lift the veil of badness without warning?

I guess you can truthfully argue that it isn't a complete review as it stands, and I'd agree that it would be a better review if he had played the whole game, but it doesn't invalidate his opinion that he didn't. I don't see anyone arguing that the game gets better after the first credit sequence, after all.

[abstract alien]

Sure, but only the stalwart Sonic fans would suffer through this kind of poor experience to get to the game not sucking werehog-style. He's not reviewing for them, he's reviewing for a general audience of gamers. The Sonic fans are going to buy the game anyway.

Im not trying to pick your statement to death, as Im not sure if you were being serious with this particular statement, but its not even close to being that bad To be honest, I haven't made it very far(couple hours in), but the thought of a 3.9 is completely ludicrous, even if it stayed exactly the same as it is right now the whole way through...its just not that bad of a game. Its far from mario galaxy, but it does its job pretty decently(so far) with some flaws.

Im personally enjoying the game a lot at the moment.

[Sixfortyfive]

If this game is like secret rings, then yes. That is one game that really did progressively get better and better. By the end of the game, it was damn near 10x more fun, imo.

And as far as I can tell, that's the biggest problem with Secret Rings: you have to work/grind to reach the good parts.

I'm so sick of leveling systems in games where they don't belong.

[abstract alien]

And as far as I can tell, that's the biggest problem with Secret Rings: you have to work/grind to reach the good parts. I'm so sick of leveling systems in games where they don't belong.

Very true. The pacing could have been MUCH, MUCH better.

[plufim]

Um, why does it matter if he only played to the first credits? He didn't review the game poorly for being short, he reviewed it poorly for being bad. The length didn't even come up until the very end. Do you really think that going through to the bitter end with all the side missions would have materially affected his opinion of the game?

He gave two big reasons for the game being bad - controls and game length. So yes, it matters, since one of his reasons is invalid.

[dark10x]

Proof. "You can beat the primary single-player mode in a few hours and then you'll unlock some extra playable characters. But there's no point in going back unless you like torturing yourself." Wrong. You do not "beat" the game, then unlock the characters. The game gives off a false ending with credits, then the major plot twist happens and the game continues with the ability to play as the other knights. The story is still going on. Did Matt actually think that little bit was the ending?! BTW, how do I put in those spoiler tags so I can mention the twist in the story?

Just wanted to note that they actually did the same thing with Sonic Unleashed. The reviewer (of the 360 version) didn't even reach the halfway point in the game before quitting. Again, I suppose if he detested the game THAT much, I can see why, but still, it's pretty unfortunate.

[pakkit]

Just wanted to note that they actually did the same thing with Sonic Unleashed. The reviewer (of the 360 version) didn't even reach the halfway point in the game before quitting. Again, I suppose if he detested the game THAT much, I can see why, but still, it's pretty unfortunate.

Both of these claims are talked about in this weeks Nintendo Voice Chat podcast. There are plenty of reasons why they hate this entry, and length is definitely not the main gripe.

[Haruspex]

Yeah damn IGN for screwing up! Didn't they know the tedious bullshit lasts way longer than 4 hours?! What a set of douches, they probably didn't even unlock the amazing mini-games, or the sound test feature that lets you listen to kick-ass rock songs that sound like they were made by a bunch of whiny 14 year-olds! Sonic 4eva!

[Rolken]

Im not trying to pick your statement to death, as Im not sure if you were being serious with this particular statement, but its not even close to being that bad

Opinions differ, I guess, and I probably should have limited that statement as I'm not inclined to get into a debate about the game's quality, but at this point if you're still buying 3D Sonic games that's a sign right there that your opinions are outside the mainstream. :(

He gave two big reasons for the game being bad - controls and game length. So yes, it matters, since one of his reasons is invalid.

...You did read the review, right? The only place he mentions game length is in the 'lasting appeal' box at the end (and how do you not?) and even there he doesn't criticize the length, he reiterates that "there's no point in going back unless you like torturing yourself." Nor are his gameplay criticisms limited to controls by any means.

I'm not trying to convince you not to like the game. If you're enjoying it, that's great, you got your $50's worth. But the idea that the IGN review is somehow illegitimate is bogus. I can enjoy me some Dynasty Warriors without needing to prove the reviews wrong.

[Diablohead]

Um, why does it matter if he only played to the first credits? He didn't review the game poorly for being short, he reviewed it poorly for being bad. The length didn't even come up until the very end. Do you really think that going through to the bitter end with all the side missions would have materially affected his opinion of the game?

Would you like every reviewer to only play the first 30% of every game and give a mark for the entire game on that? or would you at least like them to get to the very end and try out a few in betweens and give a more fair review?

For what we see he never knew about the plot twist, the way the extra characters work, the forging of weapons and all the extra stages you can play among not seeing the true ending *rolleyes*

[Rolken]

Would you like every reviewer to only play the first 30% of every game and give a mark for the entire game on that? or would you at least like them to get to the very end and try out a few in betweens and give a more fair review?

If a game is good through the first half but weakens towards the end (ie Crysis), that matters, because gamers are likely to play through that and get disappointed by the weak parts. But if a game starts terrible, people aren't going to keep playing, so if it gets better towards the end, it sort of matters but not nearly as much. So there's a distinction there.

[Baiano19]

If this game is like secret rings, then yes. That is one game that really did progressively get better and better. By the end of the game, it was damn near 10x more fun, imo.

This is true in SoR ,but I have to tell you ,the good part didn´t rewarded me enough for the chore that was the beginning.

Also, if the game is that bad at first, why would you play more?
In my defense this was the last time I gave Sonic a chance, so I actually tried my best to like this game...

[SecretBonusPoint]

I assume you just play through the same stages as the different characters then? Or does it unlock A WHOLE OTHER BETTER GAME? No? Shut up then. Infact, with every single Sonic game the final levels are far less polished and more unbalanced than the first half. Sonic avatar people, move on! The plot twist is incredibly lame as well. You all act as if it would have opened Matt's eyes to the amazing storytelling of the Sonic franchise and held him in awe!

If you spent money on this and are not picking up Madworld day one this month, then you should be crucified for all to see.

[Diablohead]

If a game is good through the first half but weakens towards the end (ie Crysis), that matters, because gamers are likely to play through that and get disappointed by the weak parts. But if a game starts terrible, people aren't going to keep playing, so if it gets better towards the end, it sort of matters but not nearly as much. So there's a distinction there.

A review should cover the entire game you pay for though, not just the juicy bits or the first/last half and be done with it.

[Rolken]

A review should cover the entire game you pay for though, not just the juicy bits or the first/last half and be done with it.

I already agreed with that in principle. I just don't think it has a material impact in this case aside from the violation of that principle.

[Kulock]

Those bastards! They only played up to the credits!

There were reviews of the original Sonic Adventure that bitched about the short character endings, thinking that it ended there and having no clue about the Super Sonic scenario.

[RocketDarkness]

If you spent money on this and are not picking up Madworld day one this month, then you should be crucified for all to see.

I may have to do this just to spite people. =X

[Sixfortyfive]

There were reviews of the original Sonic Adventure that bitched about the short character endings, thinking that it ended there and having no clue about the Super Sonic scenario.

Playing more than just the Sonic stages of that game is likely to decrease your opinion of the overall package, though.

[AwakenedCloud]

Just wanted to note that they actually did the same thing with Sonic Unleashed. The reviewer (of the 360 version) didn't even reach the halfway point in the game before quitting. Again, I suppose if he detested the game THAT much, I can see why, but still, it's pretty unfortunate.

They actually addressed this on the newest nintendo voice chat, they say Hilary went through the full game on debug, which is quite plausible.

[dark10x]

They actually addressed this on the newest nintendo voice chat, they say Hilary went through the full game on debug, which is quite plausible.

Unleashed? Perhaps so, but the review text and sampling of screenshots and videos they posted suggest that Hilary did not play through the majority of the stages. Still, it really doesn't matter if the reviewer hated the game that much...

[Spirit Icana]

I assume you just play through the same stages as the different characters then? Or does it unlock A WHOLE OTHER BETTER GAME? No? Shut up then. Infact, with every single Sonic game the final levels are far less polished and more unbalanced than the first half. Sonic avatar people, move on! The plot twist is incredibly lame as well. You all act as if it would have opened Matt's eyes to the amazing storytelling of the Sonic franchise and held him in awe! If you spent money on this and are not picking up Madworld day one this month, then you should be crucified for all to see.

Well, I think it unlocks the best levels in the game that are time based, like the original games. That is, you have to finish the levels within a time limit. Also, the challenge is upped quite a bit. Their are four additional levels/worlds, not including the boss fight.

Also, the visual's for the real final battle looked real nice. But as I said before, I didn't like the story ending too much. :(

[Diablohead]

Unleashed? Perhaps so, but the review text and sampling of screenshots and videos they posted suggest that Hilary did not play through the majority of the stages. Still, it really doesn't matter if the reviewer hated the game that much...

But is it not their job to play a game and review it? saying that makes it seem like they can just play a bit, say its shit and go for an early lunch. bad game or not should they at least not play to the end where possible?

Sounds like an awesome job, I should apply!

[RobbieNick]

Gaf went down when I was still posting last night, so I didn't finish up. Here's the plot twist spoiler.

Merlina is the villain. The evil King Aurthur was just a phony. She starts to suck up the entire kingdom into a black hole. They haven't explained yet why she's doing all this outside of "Making up for my grandfathers mistake". The Lady of the Lake (Amy) shows Sonic and the Knights how to keep the kingdom from being sucked up and they split up to go stop it.

Anyway, onto the topic at hand. Imagine a movie critic that watches the first 45 minutes of "Wall-E" and decides that the environmental message is too preachy and walk out of the theater. Then, writes up a full review of the movie without seeing all of it. Would you trust his opinion?

[Firestorm]

RobbieNick, take out the asterixes in the spoiler tag -.-;

But is it not their job to play a game and review it? saying that makes it seem like they can just play a bit, say its shit and go for an early lunch. bad game or not should they at least not play to the end where possible? Sounds like an awesome job, I should apply!

If it's a good game, sure. After all, there might be something later that sours the entire experience. However, if you've played a game halfway and think it's horrible and would not recommend it, there's no way you're going to change your mind. Why put up with 6 hours of shit just to hope the last 3 or 4 hours are fun? I wouldn't pay $60 for that type of experience.

[Hero of Legend]

Perhaps they should do this as a 3D Sonic game aside from perfecting the Adventure formula (like that's even possible):

- Start with the SR gameplay, Wiimote on the side and all.

- Use a more traditional setting, like in the Adventure world or even the Classic or Dimps handheld-style environments.

- Just have the basic "get to the goal as fast as you can" missions, and MAYBE some missions like "collect X rings", but while nesseary to beat the game emblem-wise, you can choose when to play them. Make them difficult, not mind-fucking frusterating.

- Perhaps go with a cel-shaded style. An optional opinion of mine.

- For the music, I'm undecided. People agree that the music is the most liked aspect of the games today. But the music in some games like SR were not so good. In my opinion, the Adventure series had the best music by far, and everyone who did the music for those games still works for Sonic Team, so it's more than possible to get them together again, hell they worked on Journey of Dreams IIRC.

- Would it kill you guys to make a bonus Nintendogs-style Chao Garden for fuck sake?

- Please have a Japanese voice option, and for once, an option to mute the characters.

- And of course, do not substitute any item in the game for something not traditional. Rings, springs, item boxes, balloons even, leave them in as they are.

- As autopilot or not, may as well have the goal be a giant ring again, it could get clumsy trying to get Sonic to hop onto a capsule. Or how about a spinning sign post with Sonic/Robotnik's face? Yeah, that'll work!

- To avoid the risk of fucking up their gameplay, just make Sonic solo again. Would Tails and Knuckles really work in this kind of gameplay without the freedom? Of course, you could have Tails fly like how Kirby could fly up to hidden parts of the race tracks in Air Ride. Hmm... I like that actually!

- No backstepping!!! Why was this even nessesary to put in SR?!

I think I covered the ingrediants for the perfect 3D Sonic game that's not a perfected Adventure formula. But of course Sega's proven that they can even think of perfecting that as Sonic 06 proved.

[RobbieNick]

First of all that would be $50 not $60. But that's nitpicking.

Second, it does make a difference when a lot of the features of the game had not been opened up yet, so you could not talk about them in your review. There's no mention of how the knights play differently from each other, or how Tails Blacksmith shop allows you to craft weapons from the materials you've been collecting (Also, after you unlock the knights.)

If a bunch of new features open up on the second half of a game, then yes. They should be mentioned the review, but he just dropped it at the fake ending. In fact, he barely mentions any of the features in the first half. It's just poorly written.

[Spirit Icana]

Gaf went down when I was still posting last night, so I didn't finish up. Here's the plot twist spoiler. Merlina is the villain. The evil King Aurthur was just a phony. She starts to suck up the entire kingdom into a black hole. They haven't explained yet why she's doing all this outside of "Making up for my grandfathers mistake". The Lady of the Lake (Amy) shows Sonic and the Knights how to keep the kingdom from being sucked up and they split up to go stop it. Anyway, onto the topic at hand. Imagine a movie critic that watches the first 45 minutes of "Wall-E" and decides that the environmental message is too preachy and walk out of the theater. Then, writes up a full review of the movie without seeing all of it. Would you trust his opinion?

Have you watched the gameplay videos Sega provided in the Collections (I think) menu? I stink in comparison! Looks like a re-run will be quite fun. They were doing some moves I haven't been able to do yet. Looked cool.

Also, it looks like a new mission opens up to re-challenge the knights. I bet it'll be tougher now. I think Rash is going like this game at this point.

[Diablohead]

RobbieNick, take out the asterixes in the spoiler tag -.-; If it's a good game, sure. After all, there might be something later that sours the entire experience. However, if you've played a game halfway and think it's horrible and would not recommend it, there's no way you're going to change your mind. Why put up with 6 hours of shit just to hope the last 3 or 4 hours are fun? I wouldn't pay $60 for that type of experience.

I don't care what backlash I get for saying this, but bad or not it's an half-arsed job and he still gets paid for doing so.

Of course they could give the game review to someone who likes sonic or is willing to play to the end but then maybe IGN might give the game a 5 (shock!) and we can't have that from IGN can we.

[Hero of Legend]

Oh shit!

[Haruspex]

I love Sonic fans, we should put them all in a cage and cross the world like some travelling circus.

The game is a hunk of crap, anybody could see that from the off, it is plagued with the age-old Sonic problems of nonsensical enemy/obstacle/pit/trap placement, unresponsive controls, stop-start gameplay that saps the sense of speed (and thus fun), the need to memorise levels, rpg elements that force you to replay the same tedious section again and again. And with every iteration they add more padding that drags the game even deeper into the mire- more gimmicks, cringe-worthy 'stories', irritating characters, hub-worlds and that god-awful music.

And what are you all gonna say when everyone else gives the game shit reviews, despite experiencing this immense 'plot twist' and all the majestic, flawless gameplay that lies beyond?

[Diablohead]

I love Sonic fans, we should put them all in a cage and cross the world like some travelling circus. The game is a hunk of crap, anybody could see that from the off, it is plagued with the age-old Sonic problems of nonsensical enemy/obstacle/pit/trap placement, unresponsive controls, stop-start gameplay that saps the sense of speed (and thus fun), the need to memorise levels, rpg elements that force you to replay the same tedious section again and again. And with every iteration they add more padding that drags the game even deeper into the mire- more gimmicks, cringe-worthy 'stories', irritating characters, hub-worlds and that god-awful music.

Cor! you should work for IGN.