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Himuro
Banned
(03-16-2009, 08:20 PM)
RE5 would have been better if it gave the option for co-op or no co-op at all. Due to the fact the game is clearly designed around co-op, I don't think the game will be as timeless as RE4. On top of this, due to designing the game around co-op the single player game suffers. I understand that co-op is so FUN and INTERESTING and people can't play games by themselves anymore even if something was a single-player based game franchise to begin with, but is it really necessary for every game now to have co-op?

It seems almost every game I read about now, people are clamoring for co-op, or reviewers are knocking points because a single-player game doesn't have online game matching or something. I especially recall this in the gametrailers review. They complained the game doesn't have any in-depth online options as if such a thing really matters.

Me? I blame reviewers. I can recall on more than an occasion when reviewers took points away because a game was something it wasn't, expecting co-op or online functioning when the game clearly wasn't designed for or about such a thing.
jon bones
hot hot hanuman-on-man action
(03-16-2009, 08:23 PM)
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I really hate mandatory co-op... but co-op itself is a great feature.

Some games don't need it (cough, bioshock 2, cough) but some games really shine with local co op (gears of war 2). It's a tough call because it's clear so much of RE5 was designed for co op play... when I was living alone, I hated it (online 1 + 1 co op blows, so that's not even an option) but now that I'm moving in with one of my friends, co op becomes awesome.
crowphoenix
rising from soot, not ashes
(03-16-2009, 08:23 PM)
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I can see where you are coming from, but honestly, I love this game more than 4 because of the co-op system. I enjoy almost any game more if I have the option to play through it with my buddies. Of course, there are exceptions, but, to me, this isn't one of them.
MoxManiac
Member
(03-16-2009, 08:24 PM)
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I kinda agree. I like RE5 a lot, but the co-op does seem forced. I think it's a cool first for the series, but I typically like to take my time in these games and fart around.
Tain
Member
(03-16-2009, 08:24 PM)
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I prefer developers to focus on one approach rather than many. Half-Life was a great game designed for one player, and Resident Evil 5 just happens to be a (likely) great game designed for two. And, hell, UT3 is a great game designed for twelve.

As it is, being designed for two people rather than one is one of the few reason I don't dismiss RE5 as entirely worse than RE4; it stands on its own as a different game because of it.
Full Recovery
(03-16-2009, 08:24 PM)
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Forced co-op needs to stop. But some games can benefit from co-op.
Himuro
Banned
(03-16-2009, 08:24 PM)
Yeah, I don't have a problem with co-op, I just wish traditionally single player franchises like RE or friggin Ninja Gaiden shouldn't be pressured to having to include online options because of review pressure or because it's what everyone else does.
Doubledex
Banned
(03-16-2009, 08:25 PM)
Sure as hell no. But people need something to bitch about (see KZ2)
Wario64
works for Gamestop (lol)
(03-16-2009, 08:26 PM)
I dont think you can blame it solely on reviewers. If you go back in a time machine when RE4 came out and rounded up everyone's wish list for the next RE game, I'm sure you can find tons of people wishing for a co-op mode to compliment the game.

The problem here is that Capcom heard those outcries and used co-op as the main focus of RE5 instead of making a side-scenario for a co-op mode.
Stoney Mason
Banned
(03-16-2009, 08:26 PM)
It's probably a one off for the resident evil series I'm guessing but who knows. After a gazillion resident evil games I don't mind the change of pace for this one.


I doubt the makers of resident evil were "pressured" to make this one co-op. It's probably simply something they wanted to do.
BarrenMind
Member
(03-16-2009, 08:27 PM)
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I'm not sure what you mean about RE5 lacking the option for co-op. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point but co-op is disabled by default to prohibit anyone from joinging your game.

I am disappointed by a few elements of RE5's game design but I'm not sure co-op is specifically the problem, though I would have preferred that they approach that idea in a different way. Mainly I dislike the inventory system and level select. It makes the game far too exploitable. Sure, if you don't like the idea of replaying levels to rack up items and gold to "cheat" your way through later sections, don't do it, but I just feel the design lacks polish because this flaw exists.
dalin80
Banned
(03-16-2009, 08:27 PM)
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forced coop ruined red alert 3's sp game.
jon bones
hot hot hanuman-on-man action
(03-16-2009, 08:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Wario64

The problem here is that Capcom heard those outcries and used co-op as the main focus of RE5 instead of making a side-scenario for a co-op mode.

This right here. Imagine if RE5 was based on single player, but had a mercinaries mode at the end that was optional co-op.

Shit, I'd take a brain dead Ashley over an AI / random xbox live dude Sheva.
Tain
Member
(03-16-2009, 08:27 PM)
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If coop weren't the main focus of RE5, I'd probably care about the game a lot less. Even from a single-player perspective, honestly.
Sadist
Member
(03-16-2009, 08:28 PM)
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Hate the forced co-op trend.

I played Resident Evil 5 for a bit and I like the game and all, but the singleplayer was a bit ruined by Sheva being a bit of a troublemaker. And I'm not that big of a fan of co-op games in general, so that makes RE 5 for me less enjoyable when compared to RE 4.
Y2Kev
The Last Guardian is Dead. Sorry.
(03-16-2009, 08:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Stoney Mason

It's probably a one off for the resident evil series I'm guessing but who knows. After a gazillion resident evil games I don't mind the change of pace for this one.

I don't think they will go back. Maybe optional, but this is it. I wouldn't be shocked if the RE6 reboot is a full on shooter.
BeEatNU
WORLDSTAAAAAAR
(03-16-2009, 08:29 PM)
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force coop doesn't bother me if the fucking AI wasn't so damn retarded.
dark10x
60 fps 60 fps 60 fps 60 fps 30 fps 60 fps 60 fps 30 fps
(03-16-2009, 08:29 PM)
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Nope, it was a great addition. I enjoyed the game much more than I have any other recent games due to the fact that I could enjoy the entire thing in CO-OP using system link. That said, I had an optimal setup (I had doubles of everything necessary to enjoy the game with a friend in the same room) and I realize that most people won't be able to enjoy it quite as easily.
Spasm
Member
(03-16-2009, 08:30 PM)
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I know devs think they're being clever by designing co-op into the campaign, but I agree. Go back to Halo CE style co-op, where they don't even acknowledge there's a second Spartan.
Stoney Mason
Banned
(03-16-2009, 08:30 PM)

Originally Posted by BarrenMind

Mainly I dislike the inventory system and level select. It makes the game far too exploitable. Sure, if you don't like the idea of replaying levels to rack up items and gold to "cheat" your way through later sections, don't do it, but I just feel the design lacks polish because this flaw exists.

It's not an mmo where there is a global economy involved or what you do impacts someone else in some sense. I'm not sure what the issue is then.
crowphoenix
rising from soot, not ashes
(03-16-2009, 08:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by BarrenMind

I'm not sure what you mean about RE5 lacking the option for co-op. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point but co-op is disabled by default to prohibit anyone from joinging your game.

I am disappointed by a few elements of RE5's game design but I'm not sure co-op is specifically the problem, though I would have preferred that they approach that idea in a different way. [b] Mainly I dislike the inventory system and level select. It makes the game far too exploitable.[b] Sure, if you don't like the idea of replaying levels to rack up items and gold to "cheat" your way through later sections, don't do it, but I just feel the design lacks polish because this flaw exists.

See, I actually like this, because as soon as I saw that my mind went "Loot!," and I was hooked.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
(03-16-2009, 08:32 PM)
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I saw a lot of things wrong with RE5 as an RE game, but the Co-op was nowhere near that list. I thought they pulled it off close to flawlessly. They could have added more sections where you are forced to split up, but I thought the rest was done well enough.
Stoney Mason
Banned
(03-16-2009, 08:32 PM)

Originally Posted by Y2Kev

I don't think they will go back. Maybe optional, but this is it. I wouldn't be shocked if the RE6 reboot is a full on shooter.

We'll see. I think it is possible that it will increasingly include co-op features because clearly to extend the life of your game most people want things like that but I'm not sure the main plot storyline will be the co-op adventure in the same style as 5. We'll see though.

As far as action it is obvious since RE4 that the game is moving in a more action oriented direction although what you mean by full on shooter and what I mean might differ.
proposition
Banned
(03-16-2009, 08:33 PM)
The XBL account specific inventories annoys me much more.
MirageDwarf
Member
(03-16-2009, 08:37 PM)
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This shit needs to stop. Either have competent AI partner or have separate campaign for co-op.

And people should stop defending a game saying this game is meant to be played on co-op. If that's how it is, then do not give SP at all.
Tain
Member
(03-16-2009, 08:38 PM)
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And people should stop defending a game saying this game is meant to be played on co-op. If that's how it is, then do not give SP at all.

I don't see what's wrong with saying the game is meant to be played with two people; it is. SP is a formality. I don't 100% disagree on your second point, but you're asking for a lot of balls on the part of any developer and publisher with that.
BarrenMind
Member
(03-16-2009, 08:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by crowphoenix

See, I actually like this, because as soon as I saw that my mind went "Loot!," and I was hooked.

Heh, I had a similar reaction too. It reminds me of exporting / importing characters in Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance. Or for that matter, playing Diablo II or Champions of Norrath online. As a gamer I'm happy about it, it's just a much more drastic change from RE4 than I was expecting. I even had expectations that the co-op would allow a Guest to jump into a game at any point with their items, but no progress or inventory would save to their local system.

It's weird that after adapting to RE as an action series I now have to adapt to it being a dungeon crawler. :lol
Mamesj
Banned
(03-16-2009, 08:40 PM)
Not necessary, but happening. Seems like every game has to have an online mode shoe-horned in or reviewers/players knock it.

but is there anyone still playing the Darkness online MP today? No, but they talk about a lot of the lackluster aspects of the SP mode, which could've been ironed out had the team not spent time making a shitty online mode.

and now Riddick and Bioshock 2 are both getting MP modes.



On the other hand, I would LOVE to see a Ninja Gaiden/DMC type game with well-implemented co-op or MP of some sort.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
(03-16-2009, 08:40 PM)
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[IMG]http://i39.************/xn5c0g.jpg[/IMG]

capcom: "look, er uh, we have included co-op in our newest resident evil as you requested!"

[IMG]http://i41.************/s2f709.jpg[/IMG]

capcom: "i'm sick you people. you're just a bunch of fickle mushheads."

us: "they're right! give us hell, capcom!"
Fersis
It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
(03-16-2009, 08:40 PM)
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KZ2 reviews say: YES
Stoney Mason
Banned
(03-16-2009, 08:42 PM)
And honestly the major measure of whether this was a successful experiment or not for RE 5 is sales. If sales are great and beyond expectations then we will probably see more of this. If sales are below expectations then we will probably see less of this. I'm also fine with that.
Nizz
Member
(03-16-2009, 08:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Duck Amuck

Yeah, I don't have a problem with co-op, I just wish traditionally single player franchises like RE or friggin Ninja Gaiden shouldn't be pressured to having to include online options because of review pressure or because it's what everyone else does.

I agree. I'm old fashioned when it comes to single player games. I'm more the "lone wolf" type in that I like to play games solo. I'm not too thrilled with the fact that a lot of games seem to be shooting for co-op in the campaign mode. I'd rather take a purer, solid single player experience than have an AI partner for a considerate amount of time in the game which could cause you grief (I still have "great" memories of Dom from Gears 1).
jmdajr
Member
(03-16-2009, 08:45 PM)
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I have had so much fun playing co-op games that I can only hope for even better ones in the future. For me this is THE way to play. But yes, the ai needs to be better when you cannot find a buddy to play with.
IzzyF3
Member
(03-16-2009, 08:47 PM)
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I do admit that having the Sheva's AI blowing through all of my ammo is ridiculously frustrating. She sprays machine gun bullets at a downed enemy for god sake.

The reason why the inventory space is so small is because we're supposed to manage it with a co-op partner. I would have liked a single player mode that excluded Sheva and increased my inventory space. Then again actually playing co-op with reduced inventory space will be really annoying.
sykoex
Lost all credibility.
(03-16-2009, 08:48 PM)
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I don't really care. It's just like when Halo came along, we thought all there'd be to play was FPS games. Yeah, there's a fuckton of them now, but I can still find genres I like to play.
Ysiadmihi
Member
(03-16-2009, 08:50 PM)
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I hope not. Some genres just don't benefit from co-op at all.

My cousin and I were going to play RE5 co-op yesterday and about 5 minutes in we decided to just take turns in Bad Company instead :lol
gcubed
Member
(03-16-2009, 08:53 PM)
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RE5 in co-op with a friend is awesome, i havent enjoyed playing through a game in a while as i had with this. That being said. Trying to play it SP with an AI controlled Sheva is freaking atrocious.
LCfiner
Member
(03-16-2009, 08:54 PM)
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I love co-op games but I feel they need to be designed to work well as single player games, too.

making co-op essential to the experience will block out a large number of people from truly getting the most out of the game.

it's a tricky balance.

I can still enjoy myself playing Gears SP, but it takes on a whole new level when my buddy is online and we play it together.
Danne-Danger
Banned
(03-16-2009, 08:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Full Recovery

Forced co-op needs to stop. But some games can benefit from co-op.

All games benefit from optional co-op, that's a fact.

Hell I remember enjoying Armorines: Project SWARM (PSone) for a few minutes because of co-op. :lol
StuBurns
just talking loud
and saying nothing
(03-16-2009, 08:57 PM)
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I adore co-op, it's the most fun I've had with gaming, but I hate partner AI.

I think, ideally, every developer would do what Insomniac did with R2 (but with a game I like).
alr1ght
bish gets all the credit :)
(03-16-2009, 08:58 PM)
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NES style co-op is fine (make Chris #2 have an alternate costume). Please don't stick me with a brain-dead AI partner in a horror game.
TheExodu5
(03-16-2009, 08:58 PM)
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The only people complaining about RE5 being coop are the ones who didn't play it coop.

RE5 is hands down the best coop game ever made. It really blew me away.
Torquill
Member
(03-16-2009, 08:58 PM)
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You do know you are not forced to play in co-op mode, right? You can play single player and prevent online people from taking over Sheva.

I'm guessing this is really a rant about having a partner the entire game? Cause I'm fairly certain you couldn't have missed the ability to play single player :p.
MoogPaul
Member
(03-16-2009, 08:59 PM)
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When you think about it, the co-op in RE5 is kind of lame considering how amazing it could have been if the series remained puzzle heavy.

I like the idea of co-op but most of the time, it comes off as forced.
Ysiadmihi
Member
(03-16-2009, 09:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Torquill

Is this rant really about Co-op play or having an AI partner the entire game?

But the permanent AI partner is there because the game is so built around co-op, so it really doesn't matter what the rant is about.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
gimme some of that "black man dap"! hey, where are you all going? guys? guys
(03-16-2009, 09:01 PM)
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The coop is great in RE5 and I'm really enjoying the game, but I agree that it weakens the single player. As a result I don't think it's near as good as RE4 which was an amazing game.

Edit: And also I don't like the trend that some sort of multiplayer HAS to be in every game. Like with RE5 it often takes away from the single player mode.

As for coop the game that does it best for me (and games that have a similar style) is Saints Row 2. It's in there, but it doesn't have any impact on the single player mode.
Last edited by Count of Monte Sawed-Off; 03-16-2009 at 09:05 PM.
Torquill
Member
(03-16-2009, 09:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ysiadmihi

But the permanent AI partner is there because the game is so built around co-op, so it really doesn't matter what the rant is about.

I disagree vehemently. If it was actually forced co-op you'd see me in here ranting too :p.
crowphoenix
rising from soot, not ashes
(03-16-2009, 09:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by MoogPaul

When you think about it, the co-op in RE5 is kind of lame considering how amazing it could have been if the series remained puzzle heavy.

I like the idea of co-op but most of the time, it comes off as forced.

Unfortunately, RE did away with a lot of the puzzles with 4. All RE5 did was take that a step further.
Reilly
Self-Confessed Team Killer Scumbag, Want my Gamertag?
(03-16-2009, 09:04 PM)

Originally Posted by MoxManiac

I think it's a cool first for the series...


[IMG]http://i40.************/hsszd5.jpg[/IMG]
ibu
Member
(03-16-2009, 09:05 PM)
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I dont think I will ever be able to finish even the demo unless I play it in co-op... looks great... amazing but archaic controls are killing me man.

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