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Call of Duty: Modern Warfare: [R E F L E X] (Wii) Screens

thomaser

Member
Well I dunno about the rest of you, and I'm sorry about the positivity, but I had tons of fun with CoD WaW on the Wii, and will definitely get this one too. I really appreciate what the developers did last time (WaW is the best online shooter on the Wii by miles), and I'm sure they will do even better now.
 

fyzxwhyz

Neo Member
AceBandage said:
Actually, it was CoD3, not WaW.
But yeah, Okami was also kind of a quicky port job (Capcom wouldn't even give RAD assets to the game for a long time).
Really is amazing how third parties expect Wii owners to just lap up this crap... but I guess that it is just free money.
You have to remember that cod3 was a launch title, and industry wisdom at the time was that the wii was going to be a flop. I wouldn't blame a publisher for not putting massive development resources on a port for a system not expected to sell well. Also, we already had the big red one engine working on the gamecube, and the amount of work needed to update that engine for the wii wasn't anywhere near the kind of work needed to downport the cod4 engine for WAW. There also wasn't a need for a separate wii art team to crunch the next-gen assets. The powers that be have since learned somewhat, and have been more realistic about staffing the wii team since the relative success of WAW.
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
thomaser said:
Well I dunno about the rest of you, and I'm sorry about the positivity, but I had tons of fun with CoD WaW on the Wii, and will definitely get this one too. I really appreciate what the developers did last time (WaW is the best online shooter on the Wii by miles), and I'm sure they will do even better now.
Bu bu bu but the textures! How could you have fun with the textures!?

;)
 

Lenardo

Banned
Haunted said:
Oh right, my bad. Doesn't make the process any better, though! Maybe Activision will grant the Wii a real development team in two or three years, that would be exciting.

And I guess they're not releasing new screens because people in Activision marketing are focused on MW2. I would expect Reflex to be treated as an afterthought in all development stages.


edit: oh my, that came out harsher than I intended. Oh well.


no worries it seems to be the truth.

i'd love to see what treyarch/IW could do if they had 2 years to do an fps on the wii...of course it's 2 years TOO LATE NOW- the Wii should have had a dedicated team set up when after a year it was still selling like gangbusters. but that is beside the point Now- the 3rd party Devs for the most part have missed their opportunity to capitalize.. at this point in time the Wii should have it's own MW2 coming out. it's own (insert random AAA title by a 3rd party) but the higher up's in each individual company missed the ship, when HVS can put out the best controlling fps for the wii, something is wrong with the 3rd party devs..moh:h2 came close but the Conduit's control scheme is better. if they only had had better artists and more experience at fps games-in general, it would have been even better.
 

boyshine

Member
thomaser said:
Well I dunno about the rest of you, and I'm sorry about the positivity, but I had tons of fun with CoD WaW on the Wii, and will definitely get this one too. I really appreciate what the developers did last time (WaW is the best online shooter on the Wii by miles), and I'm sure they will do even better now.
So, 249 on Tendo to boost sales? ;)
 

Razien

Banned
EDIT: fyzxwhyz, thanks for being so helpful putting the word out, and telling us stuff you probably aren't supposed to (although Activision lacks so much care that I believe they won't even know that you are giving insightful info about the game for probable consumers).
We can see the effort put into CoDWaW, and I'm sure it'll show up again here. I just wish you had a bigger team doing original, high quality stuff on Wii, and not stuck doing yearly ports of the same games without enough resources to do what you want to do (extra mp modes last year, WiiSpeak support, stuff like that).

donny2112 said:
  • Wii owners didn't get the first when it came out previously.
  • IW doesn't do Wii games.
  • Assuming MW1 sells (and I think it will), MW2 will come when IW gets to doing MW3.

Thankfully, Treyarch isn't against doing Wii games (and they seem to be getting better and better at it with each CoD release), so the odd number CoDs will get a competent Wii port at the same time. And as a by-product of being in charge of porting the IW CoDs since IW won't/can't, the Wii versions are getting practiced on every year and should be getting better and better.



Only IW CoDs. Treyarch's got the Wii covered. :)

Still, there is only a small team that makes the Wii games. Which means that, while Treyarch is doing CoD7, the Wii team is stuck with CoD4, which means always a year less for development for each Wii CoD, and that to keep us getting old ports every two years.

I'd rather have a full team working on exclusive Wii CoDs. It is not like they sold less than a million units each, from 3 to 5. With the knowledge those guys got from making AI, big environments, physics and scripting from 360 games on Wii, they could make a AAA class original game, with less enemies and tighter environments but better AI, scripting, physics, features and control.
 

aeolist

Banned
beef3483 said:
Because there's more to a game than just graphics. If this game retains all the gameplay that people praise COD4 for, then it can look like Doom 1 for all I care. Wii FPS controls own dual analog and they alone have the potential to make a game worth owning.

It's not a FPS, but I recently finished playing Dead Space on PS3, and all I could think about was how IR pointing coupled with tilt functionality would've made the game so much more fun. But most people don't compare that way. I think it's unfair how Wii games get crapped upon for not living up to HD systems standards, but HD games never get contrasted to Wii's strengths.
I'm not shitting on the game because it's not living up to the 360/PS3 version's standards but because it's not living up to the standards set by other Wii games.

Whether it plays well or not it looks like garbage and there are competent Wii FPSs that look better.
 

Massa

Member
aeolist said:
I'm not shitting on the game because it's not living up to the 360/PS3 version's standards but because it's not living up to the standards set by other Wii games.

Whether it plays well or not it looks like garbage and there are competent Wii FPSs that look better.

Have you seen the game running yet?
 

hellclerk

Everything is tsundere to me
aeolist said:
I'm not shitting on the game because it's not living up to the 360/PS3 version's standards but because it's not living up to the standards set by other Wii games.

Whether it plays well or not it looks like garbage and there are competent Wii FPSs that look better.
competent Wii FPSs? you mean like The Conduit? HA! that game's weapon balance is so boring i just about slept through the whole thing, and don't even start with MoHH2, it's just as bad, if not worse. And good luck getting online multi in MP3. No joke, this game is going to be by all measures of competence the best FPS on the Wii to date. that's a sad sad statement as far as i'm concerned.
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
fyzxwhyz said:
Do those screenshots look bad? Yes. Does the game itself look bad? No. I'm not defending those screenshots, because they aren't accurate in the first place. No, I don't know why Activision released them. No, I don't know why they don't release new media already. But at least let the game come out before you dismiss it out of hand. The press's impressions of the graphics at the Gamescom demo were all positive, which should at least give you a hint that the game looks a lot better than those screens suggest.

I hope so.

I own CODWAW on wii, and would be interested in buying MWR if it were a full featured (wiispeak, decent visuals, local multi) release even though I already played it on 360. MW2 will be played on PC at some point.

Btw, i know I am being critical, but i do appreciate the fact that you are taking the time to post on the forum . ( if you are actually involved in the making of the game in some way)

wii owners are just sick of constantly getting the shaft
 

Ormberg

Member
fyzxwhyz said:
Fun fact: cod 3 was literally ported to the wii by two guys, using ps2 assets. I'm not even exaggerating. So cut us a break on that one.
This is a great bit of information, something I hope some journalist will pick up and ask Activision about.
I really appreciate you dropping this information fyzxwhyz. I guess you're not allowed to answer this but is there a dedicated Wii team for CoD-franchise? I would hope so since it's actually selling.
Or is it, as you suggest, a hard working, understaffed team handling the port with half the development cycle as compared to the fully fledged titles on the HD consoles?
 

Vagabundo

Member
Just like to chime in fizzbzzzyytgg: your doing more to sell this game to me than any PR could.

I'm in the market for a good FPS Wii shooter now and this is on my radar, I played through some of COD3 before getting frustrated with some of the controls. I'm actually pretty impressed that is was just two guys.

I didnt get WAW as my Wii was collecting dust - due to home renovation reasons - but it is now all hooked up to a projector in a new room.

When is this game out anyway??
 

fyzxwhyz

Neo Member
Ormberg said:
This is a great bit of information, something I hope some journalist will pick up and ask Activision about.
Who cares? Cod3 is old news. Activision takes Wii development more seriously now that the sales have justified it.

Ormberg said:
I really appreciate you dropping this information fyzxwhyz. I guess you're not allowed to answer this but is there a dedicated Wii team for CoD-franchise? I would hope so since it's actually selling.
Or is it, as you suggest, a hard working, understaffed team handling the port with half the development cycle as compared to the fully fledged titles on the HD consoles?
Treyarch has a dedicated core Wii team. The main SKUs need more resources because they have to handle the design and asset creation. It works.
 

GDGF

Soothsayer
Could you tell us how large the team was this time, fyzxwhyz?

Also, could you tell us the general attitude of the people working on the team (did they enjoy working on the project, or were they wishing that they were working on a HD game...and if they were wishing they were on another project would you say that attitude is common for developers put on a Wii project, port or not)

We could get a hell of a lot settled on ongoing debates if the latter question was answered, actually.
 

Ormberg

Member
fyzxwhyz said:
Who cares? Cod3 is old news. Activision takes Wii development more seriously now that the sales have justified it.


Treyarch has a dedicated core Wii team. The main SKUs need more resources because they have to handle the design and asset creation. It works.
Thanks for taking time to answering qn's :)

1. That is indeed true, but I got the impression that porting to the Wii was still a case like this, albeit with a bit more manpower. So let's drop the cod 3 thing, I was misinformed I guess :)

2. Regarding the dedicated team (which is great to hear about), how much manpower is that compared to the main game? I don't expect it to be of the same size, that'd be absurd, but some rought figures would be very interesting to hear about.
Also, is there any ideas about actually writing a Wii engine for CoD? To me it seems like a no brainer, but I'm no executive game boss handling the monies ;)
 

fyzxwhyz

Neo Member
Ormberg said:
Regarding the dedicated team (which is great to hear about), how much manpower is that compared to the main game? I don't expect it to be of the same size, that'd be absurd, but some rought figures would be very interesting to hear about.
GDGF said:
Could you tell us how large the team was this time, fyzxwhyz?

Also, could you tell us the general attitude of the people working on the team (did they enjoy working on the project, or were they wishing that they were working on a HD game...and if they were wishing they were on another project would you say that attitude is common for developers put on a Wii project, port or not)

We could get a hell of a lot settled on ongoing debates if the latter question was answered, actually.
It fluctuates. I don't know if I can give you a figure as to what the size of the team is. Everyone was pretty stoked to work on this project - it brings it's own set of rewards and challenges. People on the wii team could work on the HD projects if they wanted, but they choose not to.

Ormberg said:
Also, is there any ideas about actually writing a Wii engine for CoD? To me it seems like a no brainer, but I'm no executive game boss handling the monies ;)
Cod4 Wii, like all call of dutys (except maybe the portables) runs on a heavily modified quake 3 arena engine. That engine was itself a descendent of Doom and Wolfenstein 3d. (There are still references in the code base to slime and lava damage lurking around.) That's almost 20 years of development, optimization, and iteration on more or less the same piece of software. It's been the backbone of dozens of successful games. Most of the kinks were worked out long ago. It's fast and easily adaptable to new hardware. It also makes it easy to share tech with other projects using the same engine. You give all of that up when you start from scratch and create a new engine.

Obviously there are some advantages to creating an engine ground-up, but the drawbacks of giving up our existing tech are huge.
 

maxmars

Member
fyzxwhyz said:
Everyone was pretty stoked to work on this project - it brings it's own set of rewards and challenges. People on the wii team could work on the HD projects if they wanted, but they choose not to.

That's fine. I'm stoked, too, to play MW on Wii. I can't play without the zapper online and I could get the HD version if I wanted (MW2) but I'm not going to.
 

Ormberg

Member
fyzxwhyz said:
It fluctuates. I don't know if I can give you a figure as to what the size of the team is. Everyone was pretty stoked to work on this project - it brings it's own set of rewards and challenges. People on the wii team could work on the HD projects if they wanted, but they choose not to.


Cod4 Wii, like all call of dutys (except maybe the portables) runs on a heavily modified quake 3 arena engine. That engine was itself a descendent of Doom and Wolfenstein 3d. (There are still references in the code base to slime and lava damage lurking around.) That's almost 20 years of development, optimization, and iteration on more or less the same piece of software. It's been the backbone of dozens of successful games. Most of the kinks were worked out long ago. It's fast and easily adaptable to new hardware. It also makes it easy to share tech with other projects using the same engine. You give all of that up when you start from scratch and create a new engine.

Obviously there are some advantages to creating an engine ground-up, but the drawbacks of giving up our existing tech are huge.
Wow, thanks for the detailed information! Truly show how versatile the Q3A engine was/is!

While I do understand using a well known engine, how much has been put into work making it Wii-specific? Was the engine modified for Gamecube development, and if so, perhaps it would be an easy task to upgrade drivers, functions and tweaks so that it would work for Wii?

Then again, I do feel it's a bit sad that Wii only get to work with an old enigne, especially if only a small amount of work goes into tweaking the engine to work with Wii. Since the new CoD games are getting new a engine (or so I assume, do correct me if I'm wrong), I'd like to see a Wii specific engine. The userbase would suggest such a task would be doable. But then again, that amount of work would probably best have started a couple of years ago to be successful!


Last note, I pity the developers working with this project. Not that the project itself is futile, it actually seems like a fun thing to work on, but rather that management attitude towards it is just horrible and I would recent my bosses with a passion. No media? No hype? Bullshit screenshots? That's just mean!
 

fyzxwhyz

Neo Member
Ormberg said:
While I do understand using a well known engine, how much has been put into work making it Wii-specific?
Massive.

Ormberg said:
Since the new CoD games are getting new a engine (or so I assume, do correct me if I'm wrong)
It's the same core engine that evolves from one title to the next.
 

Ormberg

Member
fyzxwhyz said:
Massive.


The same core engine evolves from title to title. Neither IW or Treyarch is creating a brand new engine - it would be kind of silly for the reasons I pointed out.
This might come off as kind of stupid but I thought working with multiple cores and all that jazz required a new iteration of the engine, i.e. making a brand new one (though looking at existing engine and reusing most that would work).

Anyway, thanks for answering my qn's. I hope the game will sell since, from your comments at least, it looks like there's actually a lot of work put into this title.
Ashame of the media though.

Speaking of media, how is Treyarch approached by the media? Are there any curiosity from the press regarding this title or is it all MW2?
 

ShinNL

Member
Mmm, I'm getting interested in the game thanks to fyzxwhyz. But I want to boycott Activision for treating Wii owners like crap. Mmmm, what to do, what to do.
 

jufonuk

not tag worthy
fyzxwhyz just a quick question how is the game play in regards to using the Wii mote to aim etc? is it smooth and fast and responsive, does it add to the experience also would you as a consumer buy this game?

Many Thanks
 

GDGF

Soothsayer
fyzxwhyz said:
It fluctuates. I don't know if I can give you a figure as to what the size of the team is. Everyone was pretty stoked to work on this project - it brings it's own set of rewards and challenges. People on the wii team could work on the HD projects if they wanted, but they choose not to.

That is really good to hear.
 

MiniDitka

Member
fyzxwhyz said:
Who cares? Cod3 is old news. Activision takes Wii development more seriously now that the sales have justified it.


Treyarch has a dedicated core Wii team. The main SKUs need more resources because they have to handle the design and asset creation. It works.
Its too bad they don't take promoting Reflex seriously : ( If it looks as good as you say it does it must be frustrating for your team knowing that the only thing out there representing your work are some crappy beta screens and that Activison doest seems to be in any hurry to do anything about it.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
MiniDitka said:
Can I play too :D

NDVD_006.jpg


NDVD_016.jpg


NDVD_026.jpg


NDVD_030.jpg


NDVD_036.jpg
Those aren't exactly shining examples of great textures. The textures themselves are very simple. Most of the detail comes from the use of actual geometry, not textures. The textures are also simple in the fact that they seem to be single layered (I don't think they are using any diffuse, specular, or normal maps in that game).

Honestly, I think MP3 looks fantastic, but its textures aren't exactly amazing.

how about to stop derailing the thread?
it's ridiculous. 95% of the posts in this thread have nothing at all to do with the thread topic.
What exactly is wrong with that? I love these comparison threads. They are great fun.

This is an old thread, there is no new information on the Wii version of MW, and we all know how the game originally played. Sticking to the topic would be dull.

What was said, however, was that the a few high quality Wii games have better textures than many HD games (which is actually true).
I don't really think that's true, technically speaking. Even many of the worst looking HD games still feature higher resolution, more complex surface textures...they are simply ugly in some cases.

Better than some textures in some HD games? Yep, I think that's a fair comment.
Again, I think some people are mistaking geometric detail for textures. That second SSBB shot, for instance, has very little in the way of detailed textures. It is not the textures that make for an impressive model.

And good luck getting online multi in MP3. No joke, this game is going to be by all measures of competence the best FPS on the Wii to date. that's a sad sad statement as far as i'm concerned.
I don't think the Wii is a great platform for the genre, really. It doesn't really seem to have the horsepower to deliver what the genre demands these days. The PS2 and Gamecube certainly did not, for instance. It seems that there is a lot going on in the background of modern shooters that is too difficult to handle on the Wii. It goes much deeper than the visuals we see on screen. If they are having issues with a heavily modified Q3A engine, imagine what it would be like converting something designed around the current Unreal Engine or something.
 

MiniDitka

Member
dark10x said:
Those aren't exactly shining examples of great textures. The textures themselves are very simple. Most of the detail comes from the use of actual geometry, not textures. The textures are also simple in the fact that they seem to be single layered (I don't think they are using any diffuse, specular, or normal maps in that game).
Since everyone else decided to post pics I thought I'd join in on the fun. They weren't meant to sway the discussion/argument one way or another, I was just goofing around :D

Edit: I could care less about this kind of stuff, the only thing that concerns me in this topic is what Reflex looks/plays like and not how Wii textures look compared to 360/PS3.
 

hellclerk

Everything is tsundere to me
dark10x said:
I don't think the Wii is a great platform for the genre, really. It doesn't really seem to have the horsepower to deliver what the genre demands these days. The PS2 and Gamecube certainly did not, for instance. It seems that there is a lot going on in the background of modern shooters that is too difficult to handle on the Wii. It goes much deeper than the visuals we see on screen. If they are having issues with a heavily modified Q3A engine, imagine what it would be like converting something designed around the current Unreal Engine or something.
well, that largely has to do with the specific optimizations of the engine in question. for example, UE3 depends on heavy use of normal maps as opposed to geometry for visual depth, and that's very difficult to pull off on the Wii with enough scale. similarly, this Q3A engine has been heavily modified and optimized for use on multi-core systems and i would imagine that's the most difficult part. i do have faith that this engine can be re-optimized for Wii to similar performance as the HD version, but doing so will take some time and some good dedicated engineers.

I would have to say that the Wii lends itself quite well to shooters as well. if FPSs were all about the horsepower, we should only get them on PC. besides, i'm sure even you can agree that by "today's standards" MW2 is already starting to look dated. what makes the game great is a cohesive art direction and excellent gameplay. without those things, the game would hardly be a footnote. both of those things are reproducible on the Wii as well.
 

Sadist

Member
Nice this shitty thread actually turned quite good.

Kudos regarding fyzxwhyz for all the info he's sharing. Wish more developers would be so open about everything. Especialy when looking at the Wii's situation. But man, that CoD 3 fun fact is kind of brutal. Oh well, the CoD Wii team nowadays is bigger :D
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
doomed1 said:
I would have to say that the Wii lends itself quite well to shooters as well. if FPSs were all about the horsepower, we should only get them on PC. besides, i'm sure even you can agree that by "today's standards" MW2 is already starting to look dated. what makes the game great is a cohesive art direction and excellent gameplay. without those things, the game would hardly be a footnote. both of those things are reproducible on the Wii as well.
People always say that, but they forget that sales are also a driving factor. The 360 and PS3 are a good mix in that they are reasonably powerful platforms that can bring in the sales. Making a PC-only game these days isn't going to bring the same numbers in. You don't have to go to extremes when the 360 and PS3 offer a great middle ground (performance + sales). The PC and the Wii are on the opposite ends of the spectrum in that regard (PC = performance, Wii = sales)

Crysis showed us what can be done on the PC when constraints are lifted, and it was amazing. There's a reason why the sequel will show up on consoles, however.

I wouldn't say Modern Warfare is really at the top of the game, however. It's very popular, sure, but even in 2007, I thought it looked kind of dated. There are much better examples out there today, I think. Of course, I've always been harsh the game as I feel it is a pretty dated shooter, gameplay wise, in single player.

I believe what this console generation allowed us to do is finally start to match what you could do on the PC. What we started seeing on the PC in 2004 (Half-Life 2, Far Cry, and Doom 3 for instance) were early indicators of where games shooters were heading tech wise). The XBOX could just BARELY handle stripped down ports of these games, but it was really at its limits. The PS2 and Gamecube really couldn't deliver experiences of that type.
 

gamingeek

Member
Thanks, fyzxwhyz really interesting to read your insights.

Can I ask, how does the lean feature work? I haven't played COD on PC so I was wondering if it worked like Medal of Honor Heroes 2 on Wii. You use the nunchuk but is it analogue lean like in that game?

Also have you considered using the rotate-the-remote-to-zoom sniper method that that game used? It was suprisingly accurate and responsive.

When I was talking about ADS mode, what I like is when the screen is frozen and you can shoot anywhere on the screen as quickly as you physically can, without being restricted by having to wait for instance for a slow cursor, or gun animation to catch up. Is that what the Marksman mode is?

Has the Treyarch Wii team ever asked to develop their own ground up Wii FPS and if so what was the response from Activision? If not, would it be something feasible to consider asking?

I thought that WaW wii looked pretty good for the most part on Wii using an SDTV, but when you put it on an HDTV is suffers quite badly as some games do. Is there anything you guys do to negate this? Any testing done?

Treyarch seem to be doing wii versions of their COD games, unlike IW. Can we assume that Treyarch's next COD game will hit all platforms simultaneously too?
 
dark10x said:
I believe what this console generation allowed us to do is finally start to match what you could do on the PC. What we started seeing on the PC in 2004 (Half-Life 2, Far Cry, and Doom 3 for instance) were early indicators of where games shooters were heading tech wise). The XBOX could just BARELY handle stripped down ports of these games, but it was really at its limits. The PS2 and Gamecube really couldn't deliver experiences of that type.
Yeah, PS2 can't handle simple corridor shooters like Doom 3 :lol Not sure what your point is, given that Black was technically more advanced than any of the games you listed. They weren't ported to the PS2 because they relied heavily on DirectX architecture, but that doesn't mean that shooters developed for the PS2 from the ground up couldn't deliver similar experiences.
 

donny2112

Member
gamingeek said:
Has the Treyarch Wii team ever asked to develop their own ground up Wii FPS and if so what was the response from Activision? If not, would it be something feasible to consider asking?

I honestly don't see the point. Would a ground up game look better? Yes, but if you really want visuals, get the PC version and figure out how to mod it to work with the Wiimote. If you're getting the Wii version, you've already decided to make some compromises visually, so the more important aspect is that the game is being made. And even better, being made competently by people who want to be making it. What engine is used is way down there on the list of priorities, in my opinion.

Edit:
D'oh! I thought you were asking about a new engine being made just for the Wii, but you were actually asking about a new game being made just for the Wii. To that, the answer is "No chance." This is Activision we're talking about. Annualizable. Multi-platform. It's their thing.

gamingeek said:
Treyarch seem to be doing wii versions of their COD games, unlike IW. Can we assume that Treyarch's next COD game will hit all platforms simultaneously too?

I think that's a nobrainer. Treyarch's got the Wii covered. ;)
 

Razien

Banned
dark10x said:
I don't think the Wii is a great platform for the genre, really. It doesn't really seem to have the horsepower to deliver what the genre demands these days. The PS2 and Gamecube certainly did not, for instance. It seems that there is a lot going on in the background of modern shooters that is too difficult to handle on the Wii. It goes much deeper than the visuals we see on screen. If they are having issues with a heavily modified Q3A engine, imagine what it would be like converting something designed around the current Unreal Engine or something.

Come on. Timesplitters, Metroid Prime 3, Half Life, Black and even goddamn Perfect Dark are still awesome shooter experiences, even by today's standard. Add some online (which, with some effort, the Wii can deliver almost flawlessly) and you got some kickass games.
The key here isn't technology, but good design. That is why I believe a brand new CoD for Wii would be better than a port - ports consider that the machine can run dozens of enemies with advanced AI, large envirnments and physics going on. If the game was made specifically for the Wii, those things would be lessened, but other things would be done to compensate, like more agressive enemies, closed quarter battles, and cleaner environments.

CoDWaW Wii is supposed to use a modified CoD4 engine, which means the CoD4 engine itself is a heavily modified Q3A engine.
 
nincompoop said:
Black was technically more advanced than [Half-Life 2, Far Cry, and Doom 3].

No. Stop now.

Your tiny child fingers are fragile and soft, and they are being hurt on the sharp corners of this thread. Put your safety helmet back on and go back to a thread where you know what you're talking about, though I'm not sure if one exists.
 

[Nintex]

Member
nincompoop said:
Yeah, PS2 can't handle simple corridor shooters like Doom 3 :lol Not sure what your point is, given that Black was technically more advanced than any of the games you listed. They weren't ported to the PS2 because they relied heavily on DirectX architecture, but that doesn't mean that shooters developed for the PS2 from the ground up couldn't deliver similar experiences.
wat
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
nincompoop said:
Yeah, PS2 can't handle simple corridor shooters like Doom 3 :lol Not sure what your point is, given that Black was technically more advanced than any of the games you listed. They weren't ported to the PS2 because they relied heavily on DirectX architecture, but that doesn't mean that shooters developed for the PS2 from the ground up couldn't deliver similar experiences.
Uhhh, yeah, you probably should not be arguing about any of this if you really think Black is more technically advanced than those PC titles.

That's just laughable.

The fact that you feel that way definitely proves how important it is to work within your limitations. Black is technically inferior to those three games in a big way, but it still looks nice as it was designed with clear limitations from the start. If more Wii games were approached in this fashion you can bet that the results would be much better.
 
dark10x said:
Uhhh, yeah, you probably should not be arguing about any of this if you really think Black is more technically advanced than those PC titles.

That's just laughable.

The fact that you feel that way definitely proves how important it is to work within your limitations. Black is technically inferior to those three games in a big way, but it still looks nice as it was designed with clear limitations from the start. If more Wii games were approached in this fashion you can bet that the results would be much better.
The amount of on-screen action in Black's busiest scenes, when you take into account the screen-filling particle effects combined with the massive amount of enviornmental geometry, far surpasses that of any of the three games you listed. Are you seriously trying to dispute that?

All four games being discussed do certain things better than any of the other three, so maybe it's not as cut-and-dry as saying one game has a complete advantage over the others. But each of the three PC games' major selling points (Doom 3 - lighting and shadows; Half-Life 2 - physics; Far Cry - Large open enviornments with massive draw distances) have been replicated in other PS2 games, so your claim that the experience offered by those games is impossible to replicate on the PS2 is ludicrous.
 

fyzxwhyz

Neo Member
Razien said:
CoDWaW Wii is supposed to use a modified CoD4 engine, which means the CoD4 engine itself is a heavily modified Q3A engine.
Correct. Look at the fine print on the back of the box of any cod game, cod4 included, and you'll see the id software license.
 
nincompoop said:
The amount of on-screen action in Black's busiest scenes, when you take into account the screen-filling particle effects combined with the massive amount of enviornmental geometry, far surpasses that of any of the three games you listed. Are you seriously trying to dispute that?

All four games being discussed do certain things better than any of the other three, so maybe it's not as cut-and-dry as saying one game has a complete advantage over the others. But each of the three PC games' major selling points (Doom 3 - lighting and shadows; Half-Life 2 - physics; Far Cry - Large open enviornments with massive draw distances) have been replicated in other PS2 games, so your claim that the experience offered by those games is impossible to replicate on the PS2 is ludicrous.

Except all three of the games you mentioned have better textures, lighting, shaders, geometry, AI, and physics than Black.
 

Mamesj

Banned
nincompoop said:
The amount of on-screen action in Black's busiest scenes, when you take into account the screen-filling particle effects combined with the massive amount of enviornmental geometry, far surpasses that of any of the three games you listed. Are you seriously trying to dispute that?

All four games being discussed do certain things better than any of the other three, so maybe it's not as cut-and-dry as saying one game has a complete advantage over the others. But each of the three PC games' major selling points (Doom 3 - lighting and shadows; Half-Life 2 - physics; Far Cry - Large open enviornments with massive draw distances) have been replicated in other PS2 games, so your claim that the experience offered by those games is impossible to replicate on the PS2 is ludicrous.


agreed
 

fyzxwhyz

Neo Member
gamingeek said:
Can I ask, how does the lean feature work? I haven't played COD on PC so I was wondering if it worked like Medal of Honor Heroes 2 on Wii. You use the nunchuk but is it analogue lean like in that game?
No, it's a little different. You are either leaning fully left, leaning fully right, or not leaning. There is no in-between. Once you tilt the nunchuk more than about 30-40 degrees in either direction, you're leaning. Tilt it back upright and you stop leaning. Functionally, leaning is the same as the PC versions of cod4, where it is mapped to the Q and E keys by default. Leaning is turned off by default, so you'll have to enable it from the options menu if you want to use it.

gamingeek said:
Also have you considered using the rotate-the-remote-to-zoom sniper method that that game used? It was suprisingly accurate and responsive.
Cod doesn't have adjustable-zoom scopes.

gamingeek said:
When I was talking about ADS mode, what I like is when the screen is frozen and you can shoot anywhere on the screen as quickly as you physically can, without being restricted by having to wait for instance for a slow cursor, or gun animation to catch up. Is that what the Marksman mode is?
Oh, what you are talking about is camera lock. If you hold down the A button (A by default, anyway) the camera will stop rotating, so you can just focus on pointing the cursor where it needs to go.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
dark10x said:
I don't think the Wii is a great platform for the genre, really. It doesn't really seem to have the horsepower to deliver what the genre demands these days. The PS2 and Gamecube certainly did not, for instance. It seems that there is a lot going on in the background of modern shooters that is too difficult to handle on the Wii. It goes much deeper than the visuals we see on screen. If they are having issues with a heavily modified Q3A engine, imagine what it would be like converting something designed around the current Unreal Engine or something.
Halo 2 was the top game played on the 360 for almost an entire year before they segregated the lists making it impossible to track. COD4 and WaW are indeed based on a modified Q3A (1999) engine, and WaW 'worked' on Wii in nearly all instances. You may be right that the discerning FPS player might be interested in games that are impossible on Wii, and the graphic whores will never be satisfied with a Wii version, but in terms of mechanics, I think you are grossly exaggerating what the mass audience 'needs' in their FPS games.
 
poppabk said:
Halo 2 was the top game played on the 360 for almost an entire year before they segregated the lists making it impossible to track. COD4 and WaW are indeed based on a modified Q3A (1999) engine, and WaW 'worked' on Wii in nearly all instances. You may be right that the discerning FPS player might be interested in games that are impossible on Wii, and the graphic whores will never be satisfied with a Wii version, but in terms of mechanics, I think you are grossly exaggerating what the mass audience 'needs' in their FPS games.
...?
 
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