A case for America to implement cultural sanctions and boycotts against Holland

[Kabouter]

Came across this forum posting through google, thought it worthy of a thread.

A case for America to implement cultural sanctions and boycotts against the Netherlands (Holland) Dear Rev. Al Sharpton I heard about the protest in New York about the celebration of Holland's theft of Manhattan as a docking station for the slaves of Peter Stuyvesant. This is no secret to black people but there is something that not very many of us are aware of. I ask you for a little of your time to make you aware of one event that will shock you and others of the National Action Network. So called Dutch tolerance has been marketed around the world and all though those who would necessarily be the victims of their intolerance see it as anything but the former, the status quo prevails in it's practice of social and cultural bigotry within the confines of it's borders. For over 10 years I have resided in Amsterdam, Holland as an artist after living in New York City for 25 years as one, which is where I came to admire your devotion in fighting for justice and the equal rights of our people. I grew up in Memphis, Tenn during the volatile 60's and southern segregation, I was 16 when Dr. King was assassinated. I am one of many African Americans living in Holland but unlike most of them, I've decided to export the "pathological" racist nature of Dutch culture back to America. At some point, President Obama will visit Holland and when he does, I hope it is not in the month of November because should he come during this time, it would easily become the most embarrassing moment of his presidency. Like most African Americans living abroad, especially in Europe, we stayed up through the night because of the 6 hour difference and at about 4 am when CNN announced he had won, we cried in the early morning hours. Later I went out to get a coffee and when I walked into one of the mini malls, all through the public spaces were hanging "black face dolls" and cutouts of the same in most of the store windows. I had forgotten the Dutch were starting the celebration of their infamous " Sinta Klaus and Swarte Piet ( black Pete) " Christmas, it has to be the most racist celebration in contemporary western civilization. This spectacle of Dutch white supremacy does not happen without protest from many inside of the country and from outside the country as well. Most protest are met with threats and acts of violence. These actions are to no avail as the Dutch and their government defend it by saying it is their right to celebrate whatever they want to and that it is a harmless affair for the children. What they really mean is, it's meant to make them fearful and treat all Black people with absolute disdain and for the last 159 years it has worked very well. They always resort to a position of self-entitlement and their rights of tradition when critical debate is had in the media about the racist connotations of this event.To make this point clearer, a few weeks later they celebrate the normal Christmas in December 3 weeks later. The Black Pete character was started in 1850, at the height of Dutch slavery in the Americas. As a black companion of the old white red suit wearing Sinta Klaus, he is never to stand taller than the old white man and he speaks with an inferior dialect as he threatens the children with kidnapping them and taking them back to Spain. There are literally thousands of these "black faces" running around during this time of the year intimidating people of color. The country of Belgium also celebrates this repulsive event, mostly in the north of the country where they share the same border with the Dutch. Belgium is another story. To commemorate their King Leopolds brutal rule over the Congo, when he had the hands of Congolese people cut off if they refused to slave for, the Belgians celebrate this with small chocolate hands that are sold along with chocolates of the Dutch Swarte(black) Piet. Below is an image of a group of Dutch people with their faces painted black. They get angry and become violent if you say it is racist. The uniform is that of a royal clown. Besides being one of the most despicable, degrading and vile celebrations in western civilization, it serves as a "virtual assault" on all black and brown people living in Holland, making it very difficult to fulfill basic civil rights during this month long permeating assault on the communities. I and other black friends of mine have been called " Black Piet" by Dutch citizens. Dutch television is infested with these characters at this time of the year.The historical relationship between Holland and African people has never been one of humane awakenings, all one need do is refer to their horrific contributions to world colonialism, slavery and the inhumane system of Apartheid in South Africa. Since the election of President Obama, Europe has not been able to fully accept this "change" it now finds itself having to adjust to. As long as the American President was white and conservative, Europe could hold on to it's prejudice and racist condescending attitudes but now, the Dutch in particular are under the spot light for this celebration more than ever before. I do not care if the Dutch celebrate their Sinta Klaus and their Swarte Piet, I do care about America practicing the principles we hold dear as Americans. The relationship between the Dutch and Black people has not changed that much since slavery. They have become more civil and less violent but the majority still refer to African people as "dark people" and "coloreds", words like "negers and negresses" are often used as well, from childhood through adulthood. They operate on a "multi cultural caste" system in Holland, which goes like this; Dutch, Indonesians, Arabs ( Turkish then Moroccan ), Suriname ( light complexion to dark), Antilles (light complexion to dark) and Africans. Non Dutch speaking foreigners are next to last in the "pecking order", especially Americans. Another example of the unfair treatment of Americans, most Dutch people speak English as a second language, the city of Amsterdam has officially declared English as the second language. Recently a new rule was put into effect, authored by a Rita Verdonk one of many card carrying racist parliament members that sit in parliament, where only EU members like the French, Italians, Germans, ect., ect., don't have to learn to speak Dutch and are allowed to work in Holland. Even though English is the second language in Holland, Americans have to learn Dutch or leave the country. The EU countries I mentioned do not have to learn Dutch even though English is how they communicate to do business. The law is designed specifically to target Americans. Most Dutch people seem to have a perplexing love/hate way of relating to Americans, they love American products but dislike it's people. Dutch television currently and consistently show images of blacks like you saw in America during the 50's and 60's. *Last week a commercial for a local electronics store called BCC showed a Dutch man repairing a laptop and wearing a T-shirt with a black face image eating a watermelon. *Tele 2 the mobile telephone provider did a commercial using a "black sheep" that clearly is designed to "subliminally" mimic particular racist perceptions of black people. The sheep speaks in English not Dutch like other commercials in Holland, complains about being different from white sheep in a slow unconcerned accent. The wooly black hair.......now of course the Dutch will say it's comedy and too much is being read into it. If that is the case, why did the Austrian campaign against foreigners (Africans) use the same "black sheep"commercial to make its point? Like most northern Europeans, the Dutch practice and subsidize "denial therapy" for it's people. The Sinta Klaus and Swarte Piet Christmas is one of those sessions with the therapist. Most of the history in their books concerning slavery and other crimes against humanity have been either eliminated or altered to a more friendlier perception of the country. Marketing. The conservative prime minister's attempt to deny that slavery was sanctioned by the Dutch government is a good example of this denial. The Dutch Monarchy has and always have had absolute rule in the Netherlands, it is the ruling body that sanctioned the horrors of the Mercenaries known as the Dutch East Indian Company on African people, Native Americans and Indonesian people. The Monarchy still has absolute rule. Look at the Nightwatch painting by one of their so called Dutch Masters, Rembrandt and you will see a good example of the business class that ruled Holland during slavery with the blessing of the monarchy. Police brutality in Amsterdam's south east community; 2005- 11 African immigrants die in a fire while being held in detention in a large storage container. Police and airport security made no attempt to save them while standing a few meters away. 2005- Ghanaian man falls mysteriously from 7th floor balcony in police raid. Police said he jumped. 2007- Massive police raid at The Grand Cafe. Over 100 black customers are separated from Dutch customers and other cultures. All were taken away and those without proper ID were released in remote areas far away from their homes, while others say they were ported out of the country to eastern European countries and then transported back to their homes in Africa. 2008- Martin Luther King jr. awards Amsterdam mayor an achievement award for his actions as mayor over all of this. The King Foundation contacted no black leaders or anyone in the community prior to the award given the Mayor Cohen. Amsterdam mayor receives Martin Luther King Award | DutchAmsterdam.nl 30 May 2008 ... Amsterdam mayor Job Cohen becomes the first non-American to receive ... the spirit of the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. — was handed ... http://www.dutchamsterdam.nl/298-job...her-king-award - 2009- Jesse Jackson visits Amsterdam, did not meet with any representatives in the black community, purposely avoiding this issue. Absolutely no prior contact with the black community was made by Rev. Jackson. 2009- 4 black men fall mysteriously from 6 and 7 floor balconies in one day during police raid. One dies and others are in serious condition. A national police investigation has given the community no results. Boycott Dutch interest in America and rescind cultural ties! Why? The Dutch call the time of slavery their "Golden Age", a time when they made so much profit that they are still able to meet a national budget just with the accrued interest earned on their 300 years of exploits. They still own property in New York City from the colonial times and are one of the major business investors in America, many Dutch companies operate in the states and have subsidiary interest there as well. Many Dutch people live and enjoy the multiple dynamics of freedom in America as citizens, residents and visitors. There is no national holiday that insults them or any other American. Since the election of President Obama, American principles concerning equal and human rights, exceed past the nation's borders and are now an integral part of our foreign policies. Why should Zimbabwe have American sanctions against it and not Holland? Because Holland is more passive with it's aggression? Partly true but mainly because the Dutch are northern Europeans and for that reason and that one alone, is all they need to insult over 100,000,000 black and brown Americans as they consume Dutch products. If African Americans entertainers and artists refuse to perform or exhibit their work in the Netherlands, not to force the Dutch stop the racist "ritual" but to show them there are no more debates to have on this subject. It is their prerogative to be racists, it is our duty as African Americans to avoid doing business with a country that encourages it's people to portray black people as a demeaning black face character crouched and serving a white man. In 2009, the 400 year celebration of Henry Hudson's voyage to America on the ships the Dutch built to transport African slaves is being celebrated at this moment in New York City. Dutch royalty is traveling there as well as other descendants of Dutch slave masters to celebrate this event. This is the perfect year to initiate the boycott of Dutch products, protest any and all cultural celebrations of this 400 year anniversary in NYC. know you are the one person in New York capable of initiating a effective and substantial action to bring national attention to this. We will viral this "historical movement" to other network sites throughout the internet, to celebrity and high profile political figures. We proved how effective the internet can be with the election of President Obama, now is the time to show it's effectiveness in orchestrating a trans-Atlantic protest and boycott. We look forward to having NAN support us in anyway possible, especially in building a viral network to reach millions of people. Peace be with you, A. Murrell

http://en-gb.facebook.com/topic.php?...30&topic=10503

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas

Discuss.

[DeathNote]

what's with the sudden burst of black face themed threads...?..

[Drkirby]

what's with the sudden burst of black face themed threads...?..

Maybe it has to do with that holiday in Holland.

[Mistouze]

I remember a Sinterklass thread from last year. Poor dutch poster who only tried to share about a tradition he liked from his country...

Although I understand clearly how this can be shocking to people form the US, this tradition has not the same history around it than the old american black face. I'm not dutch nor black so I don't feel confortable commenting about it's correctness or lack of.

But on paper, Black Pete looks like a likeable character... but I wonder how black dutch people feel about that.

Not worth of a boycott, but worth a good thinking in dutch society.

[xbhaskarx]

Wait, so this isn't even written by Al Sharpton, it's just a letter addressed to the Rev?
Who writes letters to Al freaking Sharpton?


Also, Holland is an awesome country, and every country has racism.

And if Americans are at the bottom of their supposed "pecking order of hate" then it can't be all that bad, not a single American I know has complained about how they were treated there.

[Ignis Fatuus]

There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.

[SimleuqiR]

There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.

edit:
Ha! Beaten!

[ItsInMyVeins]

Might be a bit OT, but was Disney's character Pete (a.k.a. Black Pete) inspired from this tradition or something? Just looking at the wiki about it and they even mention a damn steamboat, you know.

[flsh]

This is probably a very loaded subject on GAF, but I would have to say the bit about calling black people by a certain name is not necessarily racist. It might be in America, but in some places around the world there is nothing harmful when black people are called a certain way. I only say that because it was in the post, and I admit that I don't know what the correlation is in Holland, but keep in mind that because some country has a nickname for black people it doesn't mean that it is a racist term.

With that being said, racism against anyone is wrong and if there really is that much racism in rituals in Holland (and Belgium) than that is quite sad.
Also, the part about how Americans have to learn dutch when they move to Holland to get a job is quite justified. If you move to a country, learn the language. It is different with Europeans probably because of special permits between countries in the European union. When an American moves, it is probably for a long time. A German, for instance, can live in Germany and work in Holland because of a shared border.
Also, Obama will own their asses. The guy has charisma in spades and is very collected.

[xelios]

If you move to a country, learn the language.

God how I wish that worked in the USA.

[Saya]

*Tele 2 the mobile telephone provider did a commercial using a "black sheep" that clearly is designed to "subliminally" mimic particular racist perceptions of black people. The sheep speaks in English not Dutch like other commercials in Holland, complains about being different from white sheep in a slow unconcerned accent. The wooly black hair.......now of course the Dutch will say it's comedy and too much is being read into it. If that is the case, why did the Austrian campaign against foreigners (Africans) use the same "black sheep"commercial to make its point?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5OnLsRyUl4

This has racist perceptions?

[ItsInMyVeins]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5OnLsRyUl4 This has racist perceptions?

No, I don't think so. It's clearly about Tele2 being the black sheep among their competitors due to their cheap prizes. You need the english language to even make that pun.

[PolarBearsClub]

Holy shit people are actually defending ANYTHING about this?

Holy shit.

[xbhaskarx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5OnLsRyUl4 This has racist perceptions?

I just watched it for the first time, and I'd have to say anyone who thinks that commercial is racist is a complete idiot.

[SmokyDave]

Holy shit people are actually defending ANYTHING about this? Holy shit.

Did you just see the picture in the OP and get outraged?

It's easy to defend. It's a cultural tradition. If I moved to the US and protested every 4th of July I suspect I'd be told to GTFO.

[Dat_Drink_Ik_Op]

This is probably a very loaded subject on GAF, but I would have to say the bit about calling black people by a certain name is not necessarily racist. It might be in America, but in some places around the world there is nothing harmful when black people are called a certain way. I only say that because it was in the post, and I admit that I don't know what the correlation is in Holland, but keep in mind that because some country has a nickname for black people it doesn't mean that it is a racist term. With that being said, racism against anyone is wrong and if there really is that much racism in rituals in Holland (and Belgium) than that is quite sad. Also, the part about how Americans have to learn dutch when they move to Holland to get a job is quite justified. If you move to a country, learn the language. It is different with Europeans probably because of special permits between countries in the European union. When an American moves, it is probably for a long time. A German, for instance, can live in Germany and work in Holland because of a shared border. Also, Obama will own their asses. The guy has charisma in spades and is very collected.

Most of the social tensions in Holland come from cultures and religions that have a hard time to adept and root itself in the Dutch society, its a large problem and much more then blatant racism.
Calling it racism is too easy and ignorant of what is happing in Holland (and Western Europe).

And what does Obama have to do with this ?, the general population does not think any less of him because he is black if that is what you are referring to.

[Ignis Fatuus]

It's easy to defend. It's a cultural tradition.

Hoo boy.

[SmokyDave]

Hoo boy.

Yeah, I meant to put 'harmless' but I figured people would take issue with that too. Might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb. As this tradition does not involve inflicting harm on others I would consider it harmless, others may feel differently.

[flsh]

Most of the social tensions in Holland come from cultures and religions that have a hard time to adept and root itself in the Dutch society, its a large problem and much more then blatant racism. Calling it racism is too easy and ignorant of what is happing in Holland (and Western Europe). And what does Obama have to do with this ?, the general population does not think any less of him because he is black if that is what you are referring to.

Read the OP.
"At some point, President Obama will visit Holland and when he does, I hope it is not in the month of November because should he come during this time, it would easily become the most embarrassing moment of his presidency"

[Danielsan]

I'm sorry but at the letter in the OP.

[Graf Nudu]

Yeah, nuke the Netherlands. We need another beach for Western Germany.

[PhoenixDark]

Did you just see the picture in the OP and get outraged? It's easy to defend. It's a cultural tradition. If I moved to the US and protested every 4th of July I suspect I'd be told to GTFO.

Jesus fucking Christ, just stop it. Comparing the 4th of July to a holiday that parades around imagery that mocks black people is preposterous. Zwarte Piet is merely a Dutch version of the blackface stereotypes that appeared in America a couple decades earlier. It's a shame that it's still practiced in 2009, end of story. Just because it's a "cultural tradition" doesn't excuse the ignorance and backwards imagery propagated.

The country of Belgium also celebrates this repulsive event, mostly in the north of the country where they share the same border with the Dutch. Belgium is another story. To commemorate their King Leopolds brutal rule over the Congo, when he had the hands of Congolese people cut off if they refused to slave for, the Belgians celebrate this with small chocolate hands that are sold along with chocolates of the Dutch Swarte(black) Piet.

Disgusting, indefensible practice. Usually I dismiss cases similar to this, arguing that many European countries aren't aware of the impact blackface and other racially tinged imagery has, and mean no disrespect or harm by them.

[PolarBearsClub]

Did you just see the picture in the OP and get outraged? It's easy to defend. It's a cultural tradition. If I moved to the US and protested every 4th of July I suspect I'd be told to GTFO.

Dude, open your fucking eyes. It doesn't matter what country this happening in, I don't care. Whether or not whoever celebrates this wants to admit this tradition is steeped in the racism of the 1800s, it clearly is. It's just wrong man.

And a more similar (more similar- not perfect) analogy would probably be to protest Columbus day, in which case plenty of Americans would already be on your side.

[ItsInMyVeins]

I pretty much agree with PhoenixDark on this one, yeah. Saying it's a tradition doesn't in any way make it less of a parade of racist imagery.

[Steppenwolf]

My belief is that when people get offended over things like this it has much more to do with a low self esteem then racism.

I mean look at it it seems to be a funny tradition. It's non-violent, people are having a good time, the depicted character seems to be a nice guy. I bet when you are a black and dress in this costume and party with the others you would have a good time and nobody would look down on you.

[KiNeSiS]

WTF Holland does blackface like it's cosplay?!?!

Simply surreal....

In this day in age especially it's some Twighlight Zone/ Outer Limits Shit...

[Number 2]

im not a fan of the whole PC trend but this seems pretty offensive.

[Arjen]

Ooh man, not this shit again. Every god-damn-year.
I guess i can understand why people are mad, but i fuckin love this holiday and i hope it will stay the same for a long time

[MrHicks]

as a belgian i have to say the whole "sinterklaas" thing is incredibly innocent
these days it has absolutely NOTHING to do with looking down on black people or making fun of them or anything like that

basicly "zwarte piet" is this....a guy who climbs down chimneys to bring presents to children and is black as fuck because of all the chimney shit (dunno the english word)

black people is belgium and the netherlands dont find it offensive at all
so funnt to see foreigners defending those who don't even feel offended

sinterklaas is a wonderful event for children and i hope it never goes away

[Socreges]

I'd like to say that I know some pretty rad Dutch people, not racist, nor anti-American. One guy actually married an American military woman and moved to the States. Go figure.

My belief is that when people get offended over things like this it has much more to do with a low self esteem then racism.

Interesting belief. I'm offended, despite being white and with generally high self-esteem.

If that is the case, why did the Austrian campaign against foreigners (Africans) use the same "black sheep"commercial to make its point?

Oooh, this is one of them fallacious argument thingamajigs, isn't it? What's this one called... false equivalence? Can't remember.

as a belgian i have to say the whole "sinterklaas" thing is incredibly innocent these days it has absolutely NOTHING to do with looking down on black people or making fun of them or anything like that basicly "zwarte piet" is this....a guy who climbs down chimneys to bring presents to children and is black as fuck because of all the chimney shit (dunno the english word) black people is belgium and the netherlands dont find it offensive at all so funnt to see foreigners defending those who don't even feel offended sinterklaas is a wonderful event for children and i hope it never goes away

Good to get another perspective.... I don't know who to believe!

[Salazar]

Discuss.

GAF is not a seminar.

[gerg]

Jesus fucking Christ, just stop it. Comparing the 4th of July to a holiday that parades around imagery that mocks black people is preposterous. Zwarte Piet is merely a Dutch version of the blackface stereotypes that appeared in America a couple decades earlier. It's a shame that it's still practiced in 2009, end of story. Just because it's a "cultural tradition" doesn't excuse the ignorance and backwards imagery propagated.

What is and isn't racist will be invariably linked to cultural standards and cultural norms. Furthermore, I'd argue that racism almost always lies with intent. As a result, I find it hard to believe that one can instantly scream "racist!" without considering these other factors.

[PolarBearsClub]

My belief is that when people get offended over things like this it has much more to do with a low self esteem then racism. I mean look at it it seems to be a funny tradition. It's non-violent, people are having a good time, the depicted character seems to be a nice guy. I bet when you are a black and dress in this costume and party with the others you would have a good time and nobody would look down on you.

Jesus CHRIST it's not hard.

This kind of shit is irresponsible man. Imagine being a black child in Holland. Skin color can't just be made into a joke. It's not in good fun if you don't want to be a part of it. Minorities shouldn't have to buy into a bullshit "cultural" tradition embedded (obviously! Jesus Christ are you blind?!) in racism because it's all in good fun and no one's getting hurt.

[Danielsan]

I used to defend the tradition of Sinterklaas but at this point I wouldn't mind if we stopped celebrating it. Just put some extra effort in Christmas (the Santa variation) and forget about Sinterklaas. Those two holidays spaced so closely together are overkill anyway.
The imagery can come across as racists especially to people who did not grow up with the tradition

That said. I don't believe there is any hateful intend behind it. It may have started out that way but that certainly dissapeared long before I was born. The kids absolutely adore the "Zwarte Pieten" and the festivities.

[Socreges]

What is and isn't racist will be invariably linked to cultural standards and cultural norms. Furthermore, I'd argue that racism almost always lies with intent. As a result, I find it hard to believe that one can instantly scream "racist!" without considering these other factors.

Seems like you ripped that post out of the conclusion of someone's essay. In so doing, you have irrevocably demystified the contextual relationship between academia and GAF.

[jorma]

Hello, i am A Murrel - I am just another boring american who believes that everything that is deemed improper and indecent in the good old US of A should automatically be considered improper and indecent everywhere.

Because morals and proper behavour are always absolutes and there is no room for cultural manifestations anywhere else in the world if they clash with how we view the world in the US.

USA USA USA

[Steppenwolf]

I'm offended, despite being white and with generally high self-esteem.

Thats ridiculous.

[MaddenNFL64]

That's a fucked up tradition. Horrible shit.

They may mean nothing harmful, but cultural traditions aren't all equal. They gotta let this go.

edit: Black Pete? Holy crap the more I read, the more I want this shit ended. It's whole existence is based in slavery & bigotry.

[hiro4]

Ooh man, not this shit again. Every god-damn-year. I guess i can understand why people are mad, but i fuckin love this holiday and i hope it will stay the same for a long time

This!
And GTFO if you say that the dutch are all racist since they all like Zwarte piet, there have been a lot of controversy and discussion about the roll of Zwarte piet in the Netherlands.

I fucking love Zwarte piet and also the awesome role he has in the celebration of this holiday.

Give me black people over midgets with pointy ears any day!
Oh oops, am I a racist now?!

[Steppenwolf]

Jesus CHRIST it's not hard. This kind of shit is irresponsible man. Imagine being a black child in Holland. Skin color can't just be made into a joke. It's not in good fun if you don't want to be a part of it. Minorities shouldn't have to buy into a bullshit "cultural" tradition embedded (obviously! Jesus Christ are you blind?!) in racism because it's all in good fun and no one's getting hurt.

Why is the act of wearing black makeup racist per se? Its only because you make it racist by saying that it is. Its completely innocent if you do it without racist intentions. Its nothing else then wearing a indian or samurai dress on carnival.

As long as people like you gett butthurt over harmless things like this racism will always be a huge topic around the world.

[Danielsan]

Give me black people over midgets with pointy ears any day! Oh oops, am I a racist now?!

Haha that reminds me. Has PC America ever tried to get rid of Santa's little helpers because Santa is basically promoting the slavery of, now let me get this right, the vertically impaired?

[hertog]

Holy shit people are actually defending ANYTHING about this? Holy shit.

Yes because for it to be racist it has to have a racist meaning. It's a freaking holiday for kids, who cares if they paint their faces black?

Just let the kids have their fun and let us keep one of our few traditions we still have left.

[gerg]

Seems like you ripped that post out of the conclusion of someone's essay. In so doing, you have irrevocably demystified the contextual relationship between academia and GAF.

I'm not sure I follow.

As I've suggested, I think that people in America will have a "tainted" (for a lack of a better word) view of stereotypical imagery because, historically, that stereotypical imagery has always been a result of, or used in accordance with, wider aspects of the culture - such as law - that purport racism. This creates a culture where the racism becomes intrinsically linked with the stereotype, but I find that hard to defend.

[Socreges]

Thats ridiculous.

Now I have low self-esteem.

Blackface. History of racism, remaining connotations impossible to divorce. etc. Things like that. But if you'd prefer, I'll just say that I'm co-opting black people's victim status and leave it there.

I'm not sure I follow.

You write real good.

[ItsInMyVeins]

Hello, i am A Murrel - I am just another boring american who believes that everything that is deemed improper and indecent in the good old US of A should automatically be considered improper and indecent everywhere. Because morals and proper behavour are always absolutes and there is no room for cultural manifestations anywhere else in the world if they clash with how we view the world in the US. USA USA USA

I really do hope this is a joke post, because even without the same history of "blackface" that you might find in the US and whatnot, it's pretty damn obvious why people would react to this (which they clearly do since there seems to be a debate about it on a yearly basis).

[laserbeam]

Haha that reminds me. Has PC America ever tried to get rid of Santa's little helpers because Santa is basically promoting the slavery of, now let me get this right, the vertically impaired?

Athiest Americans more concerned with removing all the meaning of Christmas to worry about the little people.

They will be next.

Both of the Historical reasonings behind Black Pete are harmless and have no negative connotations to them. Black Pete either represents chimminey sweeps or Moors saved from death by Saint Nicholas.

[SmokyDave]

I happened to be in Prague this year around Easter time. Everywhere I went they were selling birch twigs with ribbons on the top. I asked what this was about and I found out that it is an easter tradition for the boys to chase the girls around and beat them with sticks. I promptly bought a stick and chased my missus all over the town, thwacking her legs.

I realise now I should have started a domestic violence leaflet campaign and tried to bring those horrifying mysoginistic abusers down from the inside.

[Arjen]

Jesus CHRIST it's not hard. This kind of shit is irresponsible man. Imagine being a black child in Holland. Skin color can't just be made into a joke. It's not in good fun if you don't want to be a part of it. Minorities shouldn't have to buy into a bullshit "cultural" tradition embedded (obviously! Jesus Christ are you blind?!) in racism because it's all in good fun and no one's getting hurt.

So i guess al the black friends i had in school all pretended to like the holiday?

[gerg]

You write real good.

Oh. Thanks.

[Socreges]

Athiest Americans more concerned with removing all the meaning of Christmas to worry about the little people.

Atheist Americans are attacking rampant consumerism and materialism?