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MojoRisin
Member
(10-23-2009, 07:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by karasu

That was fucking dumb.

I never advertised myself as bright, but you're entitled to your own opinion.
Black-Wind
(10-23-2009, 07:03 PM)
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What would I do as what?

The chump that was too trusting in the kindness of strangers or the guy who pulled off some kick ass bail out/ great escape shit?

I can't really take a side on this one. On one hand maybe the guy was too old to care for himself or see clearly or something . . . but on the other hand its a dog eat dog world and if I somehow got my hands on that ticket IDK what I would do . . . going to a place where that money can have a massive effect (Like Mexico) or just going somewhere with universal heath care (like Canada) seems like a cool idle.
RubxQub
φίλω ἐξεχέγλουτον καί ψευδολόγον οὖκ εἰπόν
(10-23-2009, 07:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by numble

More details--the clerk knew the store had a million dollar ticket before the winner came to cash it.

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dw...23a1a3176.html

So what is the guy being charged with again?
karasu
Likes his fat guys jiggly
(10-23-2009, 07:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by MojoRisin

I never advertised myself as bright, but you're entitled to your own opinion.


Dammit. Your calm reply makes me feel bad about my assessment of your post. I'm sorry, buddy.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
(10-23-2009, 07:07 PM)

Originally Posted by MojoRisin

If I handed you a dollar and asked you to check if it is real and it was but i said no and kept the dollar, that's me scamming you? That's you scamming yourself out of ignorance.

yes, it's scamming. that's like me handing a clerk a twenty, the clerk uses a marker on the twenty, says it's fake, and pockets the money.


how can anyone defend this guy! :lol fucking hell gaf.
Last edited by Particle Physicist; 10-23-2009 at 07:10 PM.
PetriP-TNT
Member
(10-23-2009, 07:08 PM)
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Thank you come again
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
(10-23-2009, 07:10 PM)

Originally Posted by RubxQub

So what is the guy being charged with again?


State authorities are looking for a Grand Prairie convenience store clerk who allegedly stole a $1 million lottery ticket from a customer.

i would assume.. theft.
Seires
Member
(10-23-2009, 07:10 PM)

Originally Posted by goomba

The victim had no idea it was the winning ticket. Loads of people take lotto tickets to lotto outlets to be quickly checked.

The system should alert its a winning ticket. If its anyones fault its the lotto system for allowing the winner to be cheated.

^This.

I don't know where this took place, but our (Ontario's) lotto system plays an audio file and prints off a receipt whenever you check a ticket, win or lose it's hard to miss (unless you are deaf and don't take your receipt).

Also, trust is not a trait I would equate to idiocy. Perhaps naive in this case, but then context is a bit of a factor. What if he shopped at the same store often enough that he and the clerk knew each other, at least by face if not by name. How well would you have to know someone to assume they wouldn't pull this kind of shit?

As to the OP's question:

On the clerk's side of it, "Hey grats, you just won a big bag with a coin on the side!"

On the custerom's side of it. Well I am rather spiteful, so I suspect it would involve a trip overseas. Might have to learn a new language, I wouldn't be surpised if I ended up investing more time into it that the money would actually be worth :)
MojoRisin
Member
(10-23-2009, 07:11 PM)
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After hearing everyone elses side of the story I see the fault in my argument.

The guy's a stealing bastard. :lol
Pterion
Member
(10-23-2009, 07:11 PM)

Originally Posted by PetriP-TNT

Thank you come again

:lol
FFChris
Member
(10-23-2009, 07:14 PM)
Wow Gaf, you guys are a bunch of assholes. How can you blame the 67 year old bloke for someone running off with his money?

This single ticket probably wasn't a big deal for this guy, I bet he just plays because of habit and has been doing so for years. He'll have gone in, same as he has done for the past however many years, got his ticket checked and bought his next ticket. The last thing he'd expect was to win the jackpot and for someone to steal it.
numble
Member
(10-23-2009, 07:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by RubxQub

So what is the guy being charged with again?

It's not piracy if I can trick the software into reading my key-generated serial number right?
Black-Wind
(10-23-2009, 07:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by quadriplegicjon

yes, it's scamming. that's like me handing a clerk a twenty, the clerk uses a marker on the twenty, says it's fake, and pockets the money.


how can anyone defend this guy! :lol fucking hell gaf.

But in your case you thought it was a 20 and the clerk directly fooled your easy-to-convince ass.

If you gave him a 20 because you had no clue if it were real or trash then your too trusting in strangers and too lazy/ stupid to confirm it yourself. NOT saying what the clerk did was right but the chump was being a CHUMP.


And shouldn't the chump be able to take the store chain to court for the actions of one of their workers?
The Faceless Master
(10-23-2009, 07:19 PM)
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*internet hi-5* to the clerk
WickedAngel
Banned
(10-23-2009, 07:20 PM)

Originally Posted by Black-Wind

But in your case you thought it was a 20 and the clerk directly fooled your easy-to-convince ass.

If you gave him a 20 because you had no clue if it were real or trash then your too trusting in strangers and too lazy/ stupid to confirm it yourself. NOT saying what the clerk did was right but the chump was being a CHUMP.


And shouldn't the chump be able to take the store chain to court for the actions of one of their workers?

Conning people is illegal (Regardless of whether or not they're "chumps").
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
(10-23-2009, 07:22 PM)

Originally Posted by Black-Wind

But in your case you thought it was a 20 and the clerk directly fooled your easy-to-convince ass.

If you gave him a 20 because you had no clue if it were real or trash then your too trusting in strangers and too lazy/ stupid to confirm it yourself. NOT saying what the clerk did was right but the chump was being a CHUMP.


And shouldn't the chump be able to take the store chain to court for the actions of one of their workers?


oh come on. it wasn't a random person. part of this guys job is to check lottery tickets. the guy lied, and stole the money.
numble
Member
(10-23-2009, 07:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Black-Wind

But in your case you thought it was a 20 and the clerk directly fooled your easy-to-convince ass.

If you gave him a 20 because you had no clue if it were real or trash then your too trusting in strangers and too lazy/ stupid to confirm it yourself. NOT saying what the clerk did was right but the chump was being a CHUMP.


And shouldn't the chump be able to take the store chain to court for the actions of one of their workers?

They are only liable for negligent acts of their employees--like driving a bus unsafely, making a floor too wet, etc. They are off the hook the moment the employee wants to do something criminal, like assault somebody (unless force is part of their jobs, like a police officer, security guard, etc.) or steal someone's property.
Black-Wind
(10-23-2009, 07:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by WickedAngel

Conning people is illegal (Regardless of whether or not they're "chumps").

Thats why I never said the clerk was "right".

I'm just stuck between feeling sorry for the guy (cause we have all been cheated by a clerk in some way. I was more so screwed over then "conned/ cheated") and wanting to give the clerk a high 5 for the great escape.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
(10-23-2009, 07:27 PM)
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ITT: Way too many people think hitting someone from behind with a brick and stealing their money is fine because, "If you didn't want to get hit with a brick, you should've been paying attention."
Black-Wind
(10-23-2009, 07:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by numble

They are only liable for negligent acts of their employees--like driving a bus unsafely, making a floor too wet, etc. They are off the hook the moment the employee wants to do something criminal, like assault somebody (unless force is part of their jobs, like a police officer, security guard, etc.) or steal someone's property.

Oh, I guess that makes sense.
Burai
shitonmychest57
(10-23-2009, 07:29 PM)
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GAF. The only place where downloading a video game should be punished by hanging because Oh won't someone think of the developers, but stealing a million dollars from an infirm man is an act of heroism and fuck the victim.
Twilight Princess
Member
(10-23-2009, 07:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Burai

GAF. The only place where downloading a video game should be punished by hanging because Oh won't someone think of the developers, but stealing a million dollars from an infirm man is an act of heroism and fuck the victim.

the reason is simple, gaf cares about developers and clerks.
RubxQub
φίλω ἐξεχέγλουτον καί ψευδολόγον οὖκ εἰπόν
(10-23-2009, 07:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by numble

It's not piracy if I can trick the software into reading my key-generated serial number right?

The owner of the item willingly handed the item to someone else. The owner of the item didn't know the item's value, and asked for nothing in return, and left.

Did the clerk lie? Yes.
Is lying illegal? No.

The only way they could possibly nail this guy is if there is something that clearly states that a clerk dealing with lottery tickets is required by law to give accurate and correct instructions on how to claim his earnings and must clearly state that the ticket being presented is in fact a winner.

When you win an amount over a certain dollar value, you are supposed to contact the lottery agency directly, not go to a store clerk, exactly for these reasons.

It's ABSOLUTELY an asshole thing to do, but I don't see how he can be held accountable.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
(10-23-2009, 07:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by RubxQub

The owner of the item willingly handed the item to someone else. The owner of the item didn't know the item's value, and asked for nothing in return, and left.

Did the clerk lie? Yes.
Is lying illegal? No.

Uh, the clerk stole 750k from the man. That's why it's illegal.
RubxQub
φίλω ἐξεχέγλουτον καί ψευδολόγον οὖκ εἰπόν
(10-23-2009, 07:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Freshmaker

Uh, the clerk stole 750k from the man. That's why it's illegal.

If you handed me a signed check for $750K and walked away, how is it my problem that you either didn't know what you were doing or didn't realize the value of what you gave me?

Again, I'm not saying the dude isn't an asshole, I just don't see how it's illegal unless explicitely stated somewhere.
SimleuqiR
Member
(10-23-2009, 07:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by RubxQub

If you handed me a signed check for $750K and walked away, how is it my problem that you either didn't know what you were doing or didn't realize the value of what you gave me?

Again, I'm not saying the dude isn't an asshole, I just don't see how it's illegal unless explicitely stated somewhere.

U.S. Marshals are working with law enforcement officials abroad to try and locate Joshi, whose exact whereabouts are unknown. He has been indicted by a Travis County Grand Jury for claiming a lottery prize by fraud, a second degree felony. Bond was set at $10 million.

I believe there is enough evidence to convict the guy of fraud. If he would had found the ticket on the floor out on the street, that's another matter.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
(10-23-2009, 07:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by RubxQub

If you handed me a signed check for $750K and walked away...

That's not what happened though.

"Check this ticket please"
"Nope, not a winner" *pockets ticket*
numble
Member
(10-23-2009, 07:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by RubxQub

Did the clerk lie? Yes.
Is lying illegal? No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud
Burai
shitonmychest57
(10-23-2009, 07:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by RubxQub

The owner of the item willingly handed the item to someone else. The owner of the item didn't know the item's value, and asked for nothing in return, and left.

Did the clerk lie? Yes.
Is lying illegal? No.

The only way they could possibly nail this guy is if there is something that clearly states that a clerk dealing with lottery tickets is required by law to give accurate and correct instructions on how to claim his earnings and must clearly state that the ticket being presented is in fact a winner.

When you win an amount over a certain dollar value, you are supposed to contact the lottery agency directly, not go to a store clerk, exactly for these reasons.

It's ABSOLUTELY an asshole thing to do, but I don't see how he can be held accountable.

Because it's called fraud. He gained money by deception. This faces a very severe penalty in most civilised countries.
Sol..
I am Wayne Brady.
(10-23-2009, 07:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by goomba

The victim had no idea it was the winning ticket. Loads of people take lotto tickets to lotto outlets to be quickly checked.

The system should alert its a winning ticket. If its anyones fault its the lotto system for allowing the winner to be cheated.

here in georgia theres a little machine in most stores that you can just scan it and see.
Boogie9IGN
<3 Looking for Sailors <3
(10-23-2009, 07:52 PM)
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Use it, bitches!
RubxQub
φίλω ἐξεχέγλουτον καί ψευδολόγον οὖκ εἰπόν
(10-23-2009, 07:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by SimleuqiR

I believe there is enough evidence to convict the guy of fraud. If he would had found the ticket on the floor out on the street, that's another matter.

You are probably right, now that I've re-educated myself in what is included within fraud. (thanks for the link)

Had this not all happened at the store with survailence cameras, however, I don't think the poor dude would have a case.
SimleuqiR
Member
(10-23-2009, 08:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by RubxQub

You are probably right, now that I've re-educated myself in what is included within fraud. (thanks for the link)

Had this not all happened at the store with survailence cameras, however, I don't think the poor dude would have a case.

Yup. Also, I'm no expert but I would think that the cardboard slips you fill in are traced...as in how many times they are used to generate tickets, when they are used, etc. If this Willis Willis guy would used the same one until it would ware off, he might still have the same one he used to generate the ticket. That can also be used as evidence. If it was quick-pick the video tape might be the only proof of when he played the numbers.
DJ_Tet
Banned
(10-23-2009, 08:10 PM)
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Who the hell is named Willis Willis?

Dude hit the lottery twice, once when he was born and named with that awesome moniker.
Askani
Member
(10-23-2009, 08:40 PM)
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I don't know the ins and outs of all of this, so I'm just asking: Is the store on the hook for this somehow? A customer comes into the store. A device they own/license sells a winning ticket. Their employee uses that device a second time to verify the ticket is a winner. Then, that employee knowingly commits fraud against the customer while working as an active and "on-the-clock employee" at the time.

I know that there are clauses in some business liability insurance policies that cover employees stealing from customers, so there's obviously some kind of a precedent. Just didn't know if it applied in this case or not.
SleepingInsomniac
Member
(10-23-2009, 08:45 PM)
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Here in Illinois, we also have that little machine where people can check their tickets. Its an old piece of shit though so most of the time they ask us to check them. We scan them and a little beep means its not a winner and if it is a winner, you can hear the printer print the player's copy. Its always the same people playing every day though, so they begin to trust you. New people will ask for reciepts.
MIMIC
Why won't homeless people take my money????????
(10-23-2009, 08:52 PM)
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Wow. That's fucking low. Hopefully the clerk gets hit by a bus or something. And people are defending this asshole? Fucking GAF.

BTW...I didn't think that people who work at the store were eligible to win.
Dark Octave
Banned
(10-23-2009, 08:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by -COOLIO-

no we need a dick theif getting rich.

this is one of those times this forum amazes me.

Dick theives are getting rich (more rich) everyday. I guess morons do as well.

This is a situation where it would have been best to just give me the ticket. Y'know, for safe keeping.
Wario64
works for Gamestop (lol)
(10-23-2009, 09:06 PM)
Nepal? Sounds like a job for Nathan Drake
DarienA
The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
(10-23-2009, 09:16 PM)
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Truth be told I just skimmed this thread... but... are there ppl here actually defending the store clerk?

Yeah I get it the old guy should have checked himself... but come on now... that's a bit of a jump from yeah its ok for the store clerk to lie to him about the ticket...

Please tell me I got that wrong...
Cubsfan23
Banned
(10-23-2009, 09:17 PM)
:lol :lol :lol @ the idiots in this thread saying a crime wasn't committed

yeah it was so legit, the guy just went back to his native country for the hell of it. Morons.
Messypandas
Member
(10-23-2009, 09:23 PM)
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i thought it was illegal to cash tickets you didn't purchase? Someone in Britain found a winning ticket on the street and cashed and was later arrested (IIRC). This is why you should also fill out the personal details on the back so the ticket can always be legitimately traced back to you.

Also, dick move by the cashier but what do you expect everyone wants an easy buck
Salmonax
Member
(10-23-2009, 09:23 PM)
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I'm sure plenty of bounty hunters would be on the job for a cut of the winnings.
Montresor
Member
(10-23-2009, 09:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by AVclub

Everything worked out for the best. Do we really need someone as dumb as the original winner to have that much spending money?

Post #35 in the thread, submitted before the new details emerged. Can a post this stupid be justified though? Does the new article change your perspective? Even before the new information was posted, the original article still stated that:

1) The lottery customer asked a clerk to check the numbers on a ticket

2) The clerk lied when he saw it was a million-dollar ticket, and pocketed the ticket.

3) The clerk makes off with $750,000, the lottery winner with nothing.

=/
TAJ
Member
(10-23-2009, 09:35 PM)
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He just payed an idiot tax.
Not only would I check my own tickets, but if I won, I'd drive halfway across the state to turn it in to the lottery office myself. I wouldn't even tell anyone I won.
Dresden
on the run
(10-23-2009, 09:39 PM)
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If the guy offered a 50% cut of the profit to hunt this guy down, I'd think about heading to Nepal.

I wouldn't do it, but man, it's make for a fun trip. With guns.
Wickerman
Member
(10-23-2009, 10:02 PM)
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Dateline had a story about lottery scams similar to this one a few months back.

Some of you guys defending the clerk should watch it

How Luck Can You Get? (Part 1-5)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...24594#30550460
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...24594#30550461
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...24594#30550464
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...24594#30550473
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...24594#30550482
Ventrue
Member
(10-23-2009, 10:07 PM)
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The store clerk is a jerk: he didn't earn that money at all!
Dark Octave
Banned
(10-23-2009, 10:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ventrue

The store clerk is a jerk: he didn't earn that money at all!

Nobody ea...
...

...

Oh, I see what you did there.

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