Carmack: iPhone could defeat NDS and PSP to become the No.1 portable gaming device

[UbiSoftologist]

John Carmack expressed his optimism for iPhone as a portable gaming device and talked briefly about id Software's plan for developing iPhone games:

1. $1 million budget for an iPhone game

John Carmack, co-creator of the “Doom” and “Quake” franchises, though, believes the time is coming when someone will spend $1 million or more to build an iPhone game. “I wouldn’t be shocked if someone has one in development right now, though they probably don’t realize it will run that high yet,” he says. “If a title could do well at $9.99, you could put [Nintendo] DS level development expenses into it.”

2. iPhone to become the No.1 portable gaming device

While he’s best known for his work on PC games – and, more recently, traditional console systems—Carmack says the iPhone is where he’s having the most fun. He also sees Apple’s popular smartphone as the gaming system with the biggest potential for future growth. It could, in fact, become the dominant portable gaming system, he says, relegating the Nintendo DS and Sony PSP to second and third place. “I think mid- to long-term it’s a significant threat,” he says. “I don’t carry a DS or a PSP around, but I’ve got my iPhone everywhere. So if it plays good games, I’m less likely to pick one of the others up. ... I think the stars could align and it could start to eclipse those other systems in terms of unit sales.”

3. id's game plan for iPhone

Carmack’s id Software plans to release one iPhone game per quarter over the next year. It has just put out “Doom Classic,” a port of the seminal first-person shooter. Still to come are iPhone versions of “Quake” and a second “Doom” role-playing game. The company also hopes to have an iPhone version of “Rage” ready to release when it launches he new action franchise, likely in 2010. Carmack’s best known for pushing the limits of computer graphics – something none of the previous iPhone ports have really done. And he’s getting itchy to flex his muscles. “I’m probably going to work on some nifty, gee-whiz tech demo for the 3GS,” he says. ......While he has enjoyed working on the iPhone, Carmack says he’s less eager to put together games for phones using Google’s Android operating system. “I have mixed feelings about Android,” he says. “I‘ve got a warm feeling about the open source model, but a lot of the things that make Linux not-so-wonderful seem to be there in Android. On the iPhone, you know everyone on that device [has the same functionality and hardware], while on Android, you’re across the board on a number of different things. … The marketplace is also apparently not well handled. And from what I hear, nobody’s making a lot of money on these.” id’s iPhone focus is becoming so concentrated, in fact, that the company is winding down its development of more traditional java and brew mobile titles. Games using those systems are actually more profitable than the ones the company makes for the iPhone, but Carmack often spars with the carriers over the limits they impose.

Source: Chris Morris's column on CNBC: http://www.cnbc.com/id/33721096/site...t%7C&par=yahoo

[Peronthious]

I can see that happening in the long term, as long as the App Store policies are put together properly with pricing and such, among other things. The iPhone certainly doesn't have the stigma of a PSP or DS.

[eznark]

In terms of volume, definitely. In terms of quality? Show me a decent full game first, then start talking.

[Draft]

Carmack loves the iPhone.

[UbiSoftologist]

In terms of volume, definitely. In terms of quality? Show me a decent full game first, then start talking.

I hope Rockstar won't disappoint me with GTA:CtW.

[lorddct]

I do not believe this will be the case. Touch based gaming is just not that responsive yet :p. And is not as accurate as you want it. And with ID based games? No more of those easy headshots and probably will have a harder time doing those rocket jumps. FPS will always go with keyboard and mouse. Other games maybe a different story but I still prefer the controller over having to touch the screen in most games. RPGS, and tactical games can work pretty well though. But there will probably be times you go I wanted that tile not there god damn it!

I just don't see this happening.

[mrklaw]

His 'carry everywhere' is only really valid for iPhone. That simply doesn't have the volumes needed, and there will be fragmentation over the years as the tech improves

if he includes iPod touch he has a point, but then you're back to making a decision to carry it rather than the ubiquity of a phone. Plus the entry level iPod is older tech so slower

[maniac-kun]

the iphone is to expansive to threaten the ds

[A Link to the Snitch]

It won't, simply because its focus is too far off from games. Its premise is too "off" to actually dominate the handheld gaming market.

[truth-lasers]

Show me a decent full game first, then start talking.

What's a "full game"? Would you consider Tetris a "full game"?

I've had more fun with Space Invaders: Infinity Gene and Hook Champ on the iPhone than anything on DS or PSP this year.

As for "full games" (although being re-releases), we've seen Beneath a Steel Sky and Monkey Island on the platform.

EDIT: And TNA Wrestling is the best game in the often overlooked "turn based wrestling j-rpg game"-category ever.

[Buckethead]

If Apple were to put out a beefed up gaming iPod, sure, but fact is people are trying to put lipstick on the iPhone/iPod Touch and call it a sexy hardcore experience when infact it's something much less.

I love my iPhone but stuff like Paper Toss, Rolando, Time Crisis, etc. that don't need a d-pad and take full advantage of the touch control is what iPhone games should be about.

Not Assassin's Creed. Not Madden football. etc, etc.

[Ello]

I still prefer to play games on my PSP rather than on my iPod Touch. But that's just me.

[TouchMyBox]

the iphone is to expansive to threaten the ds

Over here the iPod Touch is $20 more and does a whole lot more shit.

[dark10x]

Meh. It may be successful, but it is NOT a great gaming platform. The quality of the software is just not up to snuff and the interface options are simply too limited. The PSP and DS are MUCH better GAMING devices...

[PopcornMegaphone]

the iphone is to expansive to threaten the ds

It won't be forever.

[Pimpbaa]

iPhone AND iPod Touch maybe.

[Tiktaalik]

While he’s best known for his work on PC games – and, more recently, traditional console systems—Carmack says the iPhone is where he’s having the most fun. He also sees Apple’s popular smartphone as the gaming system with the biggest potential for future growth. “I think mid- to long-term it’s a significant threat,” he says. “I don’t carry a DS or a PSP around, but I’ve got my iPhone everywhere. So if it plays good games, I’m less likely to pick one of the others up. ... I think the stars could align and it could start to eclipse those other systems in terms of unit sales.”

I think the points he makes here that the iPhone has the largest potential for growth is true and that the "good enough" factor and ease of access of the iPhone could make people spend less on other portable console games is also true. However, I can only really see this cutting into the PSP's market share or DS marketshare among adults. The iPhone/iPod Touch for the time being and likely for quite a while is out of reach of the large kid market and so for that reason I can't see the DS being knocked off its pedestal. I could see the iPhone/iPod Touch becoming a #2 player in the portable space at some point though.

It is worth pointing out that Carmack did say "mid to long term." In the mid to long term the iPod Touch, with the same game playing abilities of the iPhone, will become ubiquitous as the entry level iPod that everyone has. At this point the marketbase for iPhone/iPod Touch games will be massive.

[outunderthestars]

the iphone is to expansive to threaten the ds

Nintendo DSi: $169.99
8GB ipod touch: $199.99


That is getting pretty damn close in price. Nintendo and Sony need to get the prices of their systems down to the $99 range.


That said, the touch screen only interface of the apple platform leaves much to be desired for all but the most basic of gaming experiences.

[MDSLKTR]

I love my psp but I agree with him (please no more fps on it tough, the controls are disgusting).

[JodyAnthony]

i personally won't pay $10 for a game on my ipod touch. in fact, i don't think I've purchased anything over $5. The only games that work well to me on the touch are simpler puzzle games and such. If I am going to play a regular game like a platformer or RPG or whatever, I am not going to use onscreen buttons, no way.

If the iphone/ipod touch had a d-pad and a couple of buttons, that would be one thing. but touch only? no thanks.

[cvxfreak]

Meh. It may be successful, but it is NOT a great gaming platform. The quality of the software is just not up to snuff and the interface options are simply too limited. The PSP and DS are MUCH better GAMING devices...

Agreed.

[RedShift]

Just the iPhone? Not a chance.

The combination of iPhone and iPod touch, definitely. My poor DS Phat hasn't been used since I got my iTouch. Especially now I can get all my GBA, Gameboy and SNES games on it.

[NintendosBooger]

Apple is simply putting its foot in the door right now with iPhone in terms of gaming. Once they've secured enough consumer mindshare and third-party support, I have no doubt that they'll create a new multimedia device or simply extend the capabilities of their Touch device to specifically address games. Bad for Sony; not so bad for Nintendo.

[Paznos]

That would probably be true if the iphone gets some real buttons otherwise I don't really see it happening, I hate playing most games on my ipouch touch.

[botticus]

Developer making games for one platform says it could be more successful than platforms for which he is not making games. I'm shocked.

[Zeliard]

I can't imagine how iPhone Quake will work. And if it's just going to be SP, there's not even any point.

[LCfiner]

I'd be pretty surprised if this ever happened. There's no first party Apple games (aside from texas Hold 'em) and no real IPs on the iPhone that give it any identity.

I love my puzzle games on the iPhone and I've had quite a few good gaming experiences on it but I don't see it doing better than the DS anytime soon (despite the fact that I'm tiring of m DS).

[fallengorn]

......While he has enjoyed working on the iPhone, Carmack says he’s less eager to put together games for phones using Google’s Android operating system.

Ooh, can't wait for the "ID: iphone community 'head and shoulders above Android', agree?" thread.

[RockmanWhore]

Why isn't he working on Rage instead of doing shit for the iPhone? >:(

[Zombie James]

Only if the iPhone gets Phoenix Wright and Castlevania games.

[CerberusE]

I would say something against this but I am playing Soosiz on my iPhone and that has to be the best platformer I've played in the past couple of years. 7 hours in and haven't collected every gold medal yet, and it was only $3.

[squicken]

No one's ever going to give a 7 year old a cell phone. Or at least no one smart. Nintendo will be selling handhelds and games to little kids for the next 50 years.

[troushers]

In the same mid to long term we will see Sony and Nintendo act against further erosion to iPod touch or iPhone gaming. I expect they will release something like Iwata's 3G gaming device, that will replicate some 'good enough' minor messaging or calling functions.

iPhone / iPod touch are also inherently limited by their digital distribution. How are games to be bought as a gift, especially for kids, or seen on store shelves? "Apple points", anyone?

[LCfiner]

No one's ever going to give a 7 year old a cell phone. Or at least no one smart. Nintendo will be selling handhelds and games to little kids for the next 50 years.

iPod Touch.

how many times does this need to be repeated in all these Apple threads? it's the same OS with the same games.

[DMeisterJ]

Sales wise, it can definitely go toe to toe with the PSP and to a lesser extent DS, but quality wise, the portable GAMING platforms are far better at gaming than the iPhone. And 'real' games will never work on it.

[salva]

Whenever i get a new game on my ipod touch i play it for about 5-10 minutes and that's it. I just hate the controls most of the times.

[obonicus]

Boy, Carmack's just been picking fights with GAF lately.

[LazerRanger]

Had not to sound generic and repetitive in iPhone threads but unless they intergrate a d-pad and buttons into the next gen of iPhones. DO NOT WANT!

[yurinka]

Tell me how to play decently a Street Fighter in the iPhone, Carmack

[Xeke]

No one's ever going to give a 7 year old a cell phone. Or at least no one smart. Nintendo will be selling handhelds and games to little kids for the next 50 years.

That's what the iPod Touch is for. They probably have less a chance of damaging the Touch compared to a PSP and DS. My Touch has a few scratches and nics on the the screen but I've had it for over a year and I've put it through hell.

There are nothing like a hinge, slider, UMD drive, buttons or switches to break on the Touch. But the lack of buttons is what holds it back.

[Nirolak]

Mid to long term threat?

How long is he expecting the DS and PSP to keep going? 10 more years?

[Kintaro]

If this turns out true, then I weep for the future of portable gaming.

I don't think so though.

[clashfan]

iPhone is the great disruptor. Can we have a PHD level thesis talk about disruption?

[brain_stew]

the iphone is to expansive to threaten the ds

An Itouch can be had for $200 these days, that's only $30 more than a DSI and it'll play any game on the app store just fine.

Why isn't he working on Rage instead of doing shit for the iPhone? >:(

His work on Rage was finished up quite a while ago. He's the technology guy, and the technology for Rage is done.

[Peronthious]

I see comments here and elsewhere about the iPhone/iPod Touch not having a proper control interface and not having quality games, among other things. These are certainly true to an extent, but it doesn't change the fact that rarely do I see an person over the age of 15 (or even around that age) playing games on a PSP or DS. Meanwhile, every day I see at least one person with an iPhone/iPod Touch, most of the time playing a game on the device, whether it be one of the more 'headline' games or a smaller pick up and play type application. I realize this is only anecdotal, but I can't help but feel that there is definitely a stigma around the DS and PSP that does not exist around the iPhone or iPod Touch, mostly because the latter two are known as communication and music playing devices. While it is true that the average person plays video games, on a portable device these are primarily relegated to short time wasters, not the extended epic games we on GAF are interested in. However, it's certainly reasonable to expect that these sorts of games will make their way onto the iPhone, iPod Touch, or whatever successor hardware as soon as App Store pricing and policies are in order.

[ZAK]

"Mid-to-long-term," DS and PSP will probably be replaced by successors. So that's kind of a meaningless statement.

[npm0925]

The iphone / ipod touch could certainly defeat the PSP, given the ludicrous pricing structure that Sony has in place on both the hardware and software. The DS will reign #1 until Nintendo kills it off simply due to its price and the number of units already sold.

[AndyD]

In terms of volume, definitely. In terms of quality? Show me a decent full game first, then start talking.

This. He said in terms of volume. But a game at 10 bucks needs to sell 3-4 times as much as a PSP/DS counterpart and its not quite there yet. ANd long term the DS and PSP will evolve and who knows what will happen.

[Number 2]

Isnt piracy a huge issue with the Apple devices?

[Peronthious]

Isnt piracy a huge issue with the Apple devices?

Certainly, but the platform is in its infancy. This is already starting to be addressed with in-app transactions, but of course it will never be completely eliminated. Developers working with the App Store will have to contend with the same hardships related to piracy as devs on other platforms.