MMV: 3/4 of our Wii games lost money, 4/5 of our PSP games made money

[Allan Holdsworth]

MMV games seem to sell like shit on DS/PSP, too (last one released Sakura Note sold 3k first week ), but because of the lower budgets they make a profit. Should stick to those platforms, then.

Nintendo is not going to help them, when they're happy to see most of their mid-tier games bomb again and again.

[markatisu]

And thus, PS3/X360 NMH happened.

I thought the issue was MMV was losing money, unless you are going to buy 50-100k of that they will still be losing money

Its sad to think, the one game I that is succeeding in NA (Muramasa) is not published by them. Its like they cannot catch a break.

[ivysaur12]

MMV games seem to sell like shit on DS/PSP, too (last one released Sakura Note sold 3k first week ),

Did it really? Ugh.

[Black Rainbow]

I'm not arguing that 3rd parties cannot succeed on the Wii and I'm not arguing Marvelous should start developing for the HD platforms. I'm saying the Wii isn't working for Marvelous and that they should stick to the portable space.

That's probably a good strategy for survival considering what they've managed to accomplish recently.

[schuelma]

MMV games seem to sell like shit on DS/PSP, too (last one released Sakura Note sold 3k first week ), but because of the lower budgets they make a profit. Should stick to those platforms, then. .

Did you not read the title of the thread?

[duckroll]

Did it really? Ugh.

No. Actually I think it sold 2k.

[Vinci]

Its sad to think, the one game I that is succeeding in NA (Muramasa) is not published by them. Its like they cannot catch a break.

No, you're mistaking not '[catching] a break' and cause and effect in that scenario.

[BigNastyCurve]

1. Games targeted for Japans shrinking market with limited international appeal 2. ..... 3. Loss.

Fixed?

[Tyrant_Onion]

I'm happy that LKS sold so much copies (compared to the others), especially in Europe because the director wanted to give this game a strong european atmosphere and he was hoping that it would please the european audience.

@Big Nasty Curve

No, that's the joke.

[EvilMario]

I did my part, buying quite a few of their Wii titles. I would have picked up Super Swing at launch, if only it had online play. And maybe I would have double dipped on Magical Melody (at least buying it for a few friends), if they didn't deliver a stripped down version.

[JJConrad]

I can't decide if there's more spinning going on here, or in the Famitsu thread. This must be a busy week for Wiitards.

You seem to be doing more in here. You even had to resort to using "Wiitards"... that's kind of sad.

- Small publisher's games don't sell on all systems.
- PSP games cost less to make and therefore profitable.
- Small publisher blames themselves.

Anything else is pure spin.. you're posts included.

[Cedille]

MMV may need to cut down the budget for the music. Uematsu, Mitsuda, Sakuraba, Koshiro, Sakimoto, Shimomura. Some of them are just there for a promotional role, but still.

[BigNastyCurve]

@Big Nasty Curve No, that's the joke.

True, I forgot about that in the context of south park.

[I AM JOHN!]

no wonder why I haven't heard of the PSP games, terrible lineup :<

Half-Minute Hero is great. :(

[rohlfinator]

It would be unfair to blame the Wii for this, but it's another example of how hard the Wii market seems to be for third parties to "get". I doubt that these games would have done any better on the 360/PS3, but most third parties would have understood that and targeted different types of games toward those consoles.

The audience for MMV's style of games seems to be split between all three consoles, so this has to be a tough generation for those smaller niche developers. Those who have said they'd be better off sticking to handhelds are probably right, at least for this generation. Maybe next time there will be a more PS2-like dominant console for them to thrive on.

Seems like it wouldn't hurt for them to port some of their smaller games to XBLA/PSN/WiiWare, though... It might cost a bit, but porting at least to the HD consoles wouldn't require as much optimization, and it could get them a little more recognition.

[schuelma]

I don't know why people keep basically only talking about consoles, i.e porting stuff to PS360.

Why are we ignoring the systems where Marvelous actually has some success?

[thefro]

I don't think it's really that hard.... you either make a AA/AAA game with mass appeal to the core audience, a casual-focused game, or a niche game on a cheap budget.

Where developers have hurt themselves is by making 1) core games that don't have mass appeal due to celshading or weird artstyles, terrible game titles, on-rails, etc and 2) Making core games more "casual-friendly" to the point where neither core nor casual gamers buy the games.

[Durante]

It would be unfair to blame the Wii for this, but it's another example of how hard the Wii market seems to be for third parties to "get". I doubt that these games would have done any better on the 360/PS3, but most third parties would have understood that and targeted different types of games toward those consoles.

I'm not so sure about this, I think ARF at least (even with the exact same budget for assets) would have done better as a PS3 title.

[Y-Z]

Don't pull numbers out of your ass. They are both just over 800,000.

Crisis core sold 800.000 in japan alone. US isnt the world :)

[DeaconKnowledge]

I guess that's why Valhalla Knights Wii looks like garbage; re-used PSP assets and the like.

I'm disappointed they're not making money on the Wii, they're one of my favourite Wii devs this gen. Better they slow development for the console than release themselves into an early grave.

I'm not so sure about this, I think ARF at least (even with the exact same budget for assets) would have done better as a PS3 title.

Doubt it. I think the problem isn't necessarily how much they're selling, but how much their selling relative to the budget Marvelous puts into the titles. If that's the case a PS3 version would have to blow the Wii sales out of the water to turn profit. Whether that's possible, who knows?

I don't know why people keep basically only talking about consoles, i.e porting stuff to PS360. Why are we ignoring the systems where Marvelous actually has some success?

Because few of the people arguing in here want Marvelous games for the PSP/DS, either.

[Black Rainbow]

I'm not so sure about this, I think ARF at least (even with the exact same budget for assets) would have done better as a PS3 title.

Is that realistic though?

[Durante]

Doubt it. I think the problem isn't necessarily how much they're selling, but how much their selling relative to the budget Marvelous puts into the titles. If that's the case a PS3 version would have to blow the Wii sales out of the water to turn profit. Whether that's possible, who knows?

That's why I said with the same budget.

Is that realistic though?

Sure, it would look just like ARF but with less aliasing, higher resolution and better lighting/shadows. Slightly better textures and models as well in some cases (not more detail -- that requires more time/budget -- but higher limits for artists to work with).

[rohlfinator]

Where developers have hurt themselves is by making 1) core games that don't have mass appeal due to celshading or weird artstyles, terrible game titles, on-rails, etc and 2) Making core games more "casual-friendly" to the point where neither core nor casual gamers buy the games.

I dunno, 1) seem like pretty minor complaints, and plenty of games have had success (at least niche success) with those kind of "problems" in the past. I don't think those would really put off any serious buyers.

2)... I can't think of many instances where that's happened, but maybe I'm missing some obvious stuff.

I'm not so sure about this, I think ARF at least (even with the exact same budget for assets) would have done better as a PS3 title.

Could be, the PS3 does seem like a pretty strong platform for JRPGs (for a current-gen console).

[DeaconKnowledge]

That's why I said with the same budget. Sure, it would look just like ARF but with less aliasing, higher resolution and better lighting/shadows. Slightly better textures and models as well in some cases (not more detail -- that requires more time/budget -- but higher limits for artists to work with).

There's no way that wouldn't increase the budget. The devkits alone are a huge investment.

[gunther]

the wii isnt the problem, the problem is japan, only big names/games sell well enough to make money.

[ivysaur12]

No. Actually I think it sold 2k.

Too bad. I thought it looked interesting.

If you say anything...

[Sadist]

To bad for Marvelous, I like their games. I'm still planning on buying ARF though even if comes out in Europe.

Guess more PSP development for them ey?

[Kaijima]

Well, I bought my US copy of Muramasa :(

Told everyone I know who wasn't aware of the game to check it out, too. A couple did. That's at least two more sales, I guess.

[amtentori]

Muramasa was not published by MMV in the US.

The game sold decently here, but I dont think MMv will see any of it... :?




This is a case where nintendo should have helped market the titles. Most of the titles are high quality wii exclusives. Nintendo should have helped market these games instead of say, the new play control titles. It would be beneficial for the wii in the long run...

[DeaconKnowledge]

This is a case where nintendo should have helped market the titles.

Just curious; why?

Why is it Nintendo's responsibility?

[PataHikari]

Why are we ignoring the systems where Marvelous actually has some success?

Because handhelds aren't real gaming systems. Duh

[Nirolak]

I don't know why people keep basically only talking about consoles, i.e porting stuff to PS360. Why are we ignoring the systems where Marvelous actually has some success?

Handhelds don't fuel our console wars.

Though I'm assuming that was a rhetorical question.

[Evlar]

I still don't know what people who buy a PSP in America actually do with it. I mean, piracy doesn't even begin to explain what the fuck is going on there

[raises hand]
I play Monster Hunter! Sometimes.

[TheUnknownForce]

Muramasa was not published by MMV in the US. The game sold decently here, but I dont think MMv will see any of it... :? This is a case where nintendo should have helped market the titles. Most of the titles are high quality wii exclusives. Nintendo should have helped market these games instead of say, the new play control titles. It would be beneficial for the wii in the long run...

Funny thing is that they pushed Muramasa, if but a little bit. The NYC Nintendo Store had a special launch event, and Nintendo Week and the Nintendo Channel all had coverage of the game to a good extent, I would say. Commercials, not so much, but that's usually the case.

And MMV won't get any of that benefit. In my opinion, LKS probably got a small profit, based on their sales. However, had they published Muramasa in America, they probably would have gotten profit from that game as well.

[amtentori]

Just curious; why? Why is it Nintendo's responsibility?

I didnt say responsibility. I truly think that it would be beneficial to Nintendo to promote high quality exclusive games. It would help fill their software gaps, it would probably increase satisfaction and retention rate of wii gamers, it would create a more active and healthier software environment, etc.

I also think nintendo should do more to promote, some of their more obscure games like excitebots. it would help in similar ways.

[Htown]

I can't decide if there's more spinning going on here, or in the Famitsu thread. This must be a busy week for Wiitards.

Wow. "Wiitards"? Really?

[jaundicejuice]

It's always somewhat disheartening to read how much Marvelous has struggled, for my money they've had a hand in providing some of the better third party games on the Wii: No More Heroes, Little King's Story, Muramasa: The Demon Blade and soon No More Heroes: Desperate Struggle. I hope that Desperate Struggle and No More Heroes HD nets them some sort of success in the west like the first NMH game did. I plan on buying both.

[Linkup]

I didnt say responsibility. I truly think that it would be beneficial to Nintendo to promote high quality exclusive games.

MMV hasn't released any of those, ok maybe one.

Truth is I'm shocked to hear Arc Rise is anything but another generic low budget rpg. The design is worse than Tales and Tales already looks horrible. I can't really understand that one at all.

[TheEastonator]

Are people really going to blame the underperformance of niche titles on the Wii being their platform? Really? You think Muramasa would have sold gangbusters on PS360?

Notice the most mainstream title, NMH, has performed just fine (right?).

[larvi]

I purchased both Harvest Moon and Little King's story for the wii so I tried to help. I wonder how their gamecube sales were as a comparison?

[laserbeam]

MMV should have made 2 Wii games and took the budget for the other 2 and used it to advertise. Then they could profit and make game #3

[Oxx]

Even despite the cart prices, given the lower cost overall and the number of games sold, I'd be pretty surprised if Marvelous didn't earn a profit on their DS Harvest Moon games, or stuff like the three Rune Factories, the Luminous Arc games, or Avalon Code.

In the same report where Marvelous forecast Little King's Story selling 289k they had one of the DS Harvest Moon games at 450k in Europe alone.

Obviously if they missed their HM forecast to the extent that they missed their LKS forecast things look slightly less rosy, but I'd imagine that the HM franchise is still one of their most profitable endeavours.

[Haunted]

Damn.

No More Heroes = awesome
Little King's Story = awesome
Muramasa = awesome

Clearly, making/publishing awesome games isn't a guarantee for success nowadays. :(


I'll just echo the many other voices in here and say that small-ish Japanese developers and publishers should probably stick to handhelds.

[bon]

What time period does this cover? Isn't Tree of Tranquility an '07/'08 release?

I certainly hope Rune Factory Frontier turned a profit.

[WinFonda]

Google ads win again

[Jocchan]

[IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/2nl5wsl.jpg[IMG] Google ads win again

Damn, I need to listen to that cartoon character's advice.

[jcm]

There's no way that wouldn't increase the budget. The devkits alone are a huge investment.

PS3 dev kits cost $2000 each. That's hardly a huge investment. It's probably not much more than Wii dev kits cost.

[Hero of Legend]

but I dont think MMv will see any of it... :?

And MMV won't get any of that benefit. In my opinion, LKS probably got a small profit, based on their sales. However, had they published Muramasa in America, they probably would have gotten profit from that game as well.

Why wouldn't MMV see money from games localized by anyone but XSEED? It's their IP and everything.

What about the HM, River King, and Reel Fishing series and they're all published by Natsume over here, and NMH was published by Ubisoft, and its success over here is the very reason a sequel is on the way, why would MMV greenlight a game that was successful in a region where they wouldn't get money from the game?

Someone explain this to me.

[onipex]

Damn. No More Heroes = awesome Little King's Story = awesome Muramasa = awesome Clearly, making/publishing awesome games isn't a guarantee for success nowadays. :(

It never was in any generation.

Are people really going to blame the underperformance of niche titles on the Wii being their platform? Really? You think Muramasa would have sold gangbusters on PS360? Notice the most mainstream title, NMH, has performed just fine (right?).

I think so, because that would make this generation pretty consistent. Any game that does not sell well on the Wii is due to the Wii or Wii owners. The game being niche or receiving no marketing does not count.

[donny2112]

In Japan it actually is a software monster. Not as much as the DS, but still very respectable.

Then since Wii is above PSP in software in Japan, that makes Wii a "software monster," too. :P

PSP is doing better than the doldrums of 2007, but it is far from being a general "software monster."