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Andrex
ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
(11-23-2009, 07:48 AM)
On Zelda's controls on DS and Wii:

Originally Posted by Eiji Aonuma

The Difference between the two platforms (Wii and DS) is big. The experience with Spirit Tracks, trying to enhance an already 'near-perfect control,' is what pushed us on learning how to rack our brains. With Wii it is the same, we want to make the most of its controls. We want the player to control the game in the best possible way. On Wii, the camera is more realistic. Graphics are more realistic, too, and controls have to be, therefore, much more realistic.

No FF7R OoTR for you:

Originally Posted by Eiji Aonuma

There were a lot of things we couldn't do [with Ocarina of Time] due to technical limitations. But I think we've been solving those issues with every Zelda since then. With each entry, I've tried to add things I couldn't do before. Actually, it's like I've been remaking it during these years. So if you ask me if there's going to be a Zelda remake... I thought I was making it all this time! So it maybe I haven't done well enough, I haven't been up to the expected level.

The "Zelda guy" himself discredits GAF's #1 game of all time:

Originally Posted by Eiji Aonuma

It's complicated. Past things belong to our memories, and they grow bigger in there. If you play Ocarina of Time nowadays, you notice that it's not that good. Sometimes it doesn't move as fast as it should, graphics aren't as beautiful as they should be; there are some confusing parts... Any present Zelda is technically superior. Everything goes faster, more fluid... but to best Ocarina of Time, a great change –comparable to what happened back then- must be introduced. And that'll be rather complicated.

He also thinks him and Miyamoto see more eye-to-eye now:

Originally Posted by Eiji Aonuma

I didn't know our discussions were so well known! I believe we have different visions because Mr. Miyamoto is just a genius; he's got an innate talent, and everything I do, I had to learn step by step. And it took a lot for me, I have no natural talent. I've spent many years with Mr. Miyamoto and, since the beginning, the moment I have to bring my work and show it to him for his opinion is a very special moment, and I enjoy with it. [...] He notices things I'd never see. After this time, our visions are starting to match up more and more. However, I have a lot more left to try to reach his level.

...No more overturned tea tables? That will probably only help development in the end.

Original Interview: Revogamers.net
Translation: Good Net Inn
Pureauthor
(11-23-2009, 07:49 AM)
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Hmm. Looks like a pretty good interview.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
(11-23-2009, 07:49 AM)
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Andrex I was gonna make this thread but I didn't have the balls.

You da man.
Jangaroo
Always the tag bridesmaid, never the tag bride.
(11-23-2009, 07:50 AM)
Kind of surprised to see him say that OoT doesn't hold up well today. It's still very playable.
bearcatjosh
Member
(11-23-2009, 07:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by Regulus Tera

Andrex I was gonna make this thread but I didn't have the balls.

You da man.

Indeed; he stepped up.
Rez
(11-23-2009, 07:51 AM)
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it's nice to know that he's very much aware of the nature of his body of work. it makes it easier to trust him.
Vinci
Danish
(11-23-2009, 07:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jangaroo

Kind of surprised to see him say that OoT doesn't hold up well today. It's still very playable.

LttP alone is more playable than OoT is today. Nevermind Link's Awakening.
luka
Loves Robotech S1
(11-23-2009, 07:53 AM)
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He's right. I'd rather play WW than OoT any day of the week, despite how amazing and revolutionary it was. It's simply a better game (unless you absolutely hate sailing).
Andrex
ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
(11-23-2009, 07:53 AM)

Originally Posted by Regulus Tera

Andrex I was gonna make this thread but I didn't have the balls.

You da man.

Heh, thanks? :lol

*Note: The original post does not necessarily reflect the views of the original poster (although they probably really do.)
bearcatjosh
Member
(11-23-2009, 07:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by Rez

it's nice to know that he's very much aware of the nature of his body of work. it makes it easier to trust him.

I appreciate this as well; Aonuma always seems brutally honest to me. He's the best kind of creative type.
ShockingAlberto
Member
(11-23-2009, 07:53 AM)
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Andrex, you should know better than to make sensationalist thread titles.
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
(11-23-2009, 07:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jangaroo

Kind of surprised to see him say that OoT doesn't hold up well today. It's still very playable.

Sort of. Some of the puzzles and bosses are still excellent, but even aside from obviously outdated aspects (like the controls) the design of the game is generally very bloated and slow.
toythatkills
(11-23-2009, 07:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jangaroo

Kind of surprised to see him say that OoT doesn't hold up well today. It's still very playable.

Indeed. I played it through for the first time last year (maybe the year before) and it was excellent, better than most games that have gone since.
cosmicblizzard
Shounen Iconoclast
(11-23-2009, 07:57 AM)
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Aonuma's a pretty modest guy. Funny how he praises Miyamoto so much when he's the more trusted one by a lot of fans.
cartman414
Member
(11-23-2009, 08:00 AM)

Originally Posted by Chairman Yang

Sort of. Some of the puzzles and bosses are still excellent, but even aside from obviously outdated aspects (like the controls) the design of the game is generally very bloated and slow.

Oh, very very much so.

The game would need to be overhauled for a remake.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
(11-23-2009, 08:00 AM)
-COOLIO-'s Avatar
gaf, before you overreact, this is of course very much true because of the rampant evolutions in gameplay and technology over the past decade.

though it is arguably deserving of 'the best game ever' title because it was so good when it first came out.
Buckethead
Member
(11-23-2009, 08:02 AM)
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I think I remember Andrex making a crazy ass thread a couple of years ago.
I liked his style then, I like his style now.

[IMG]http://i46.************/jshw6a.gif[/IMG]
andymcc
Member
(11-23-2009, 08:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by -COOLIO-

gaf, before you overreact, this is of course very much true because of the rampant evolutions in gameplay and technology over the past decade.

though it is arguably deserving of 'the best game ever' title because it was so good when it first came out.

well, it came out around the time i got a dreamcast, it was hard for me to play it alongside my DC games. :lol
cartman414
Member
(11-23-2009, 08:04 AM)
Besides, the old-school 2d Zeldas are the ones that need the remake love. (Of course, the first just got an unofficial one of sorts with 3d Dot Game Heroes.)
ZealousD
Member
(11-23-2009, 08:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by Vinci

LttP alone is more playable than OoT is today. Nevermind Link's Awakening.

Bleh. No. LttP is even worse.
aryies
Junior Member
(11-23-2009, 08:07 AM)
i replayed oot about...2 months ago? still the best game ever, in my eyes, so *shrug*
andymcc
Member
(11-23-2009, 08:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by ZealousD

Bleh. No. LttP is even worse.

yeah, its world map is really just not fun at all to traverse through.
Black-Wind
(11-23-2009, 08:13 AM)
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Is this a new interview?

He has really opened the flood gates recently! 0_o

He is pretty much saying that people's memories have gotten bloated by allowing the game to grow in their minds over time. Nostalgic and all that stuff.

And he is also saying that instead of trying to make something that advances OoT he now sees that he has to make something better then it by making another revolution/ innovation with the series.

OoT gets bloated in people's memories as being better then it really was because it was the first 3D LoZ, the revolution/ innovation that was kickass for the series . . . instead of doing a better OoT he wants to make a new change which is what I have been hoping they would do. TP was a great send off to the formula, time to do something different.
Last edited by Black-Wind; 11-23-2009 at 08:30 AM.
Balb
Member
(11-23-2009, 08:15 AM)
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OoT is still by far the best game ever in my opinion, but it's interesting to hear his opinion on the game. His standards are obviously very high, and I have high hopes for the next Zelda.
Andrex
ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
(11-23-2009, 08:24 AM)

Originally Posted by ShockingAlberto

Andrex, you should know better than to make sensationalist thread titles.

I should? Why is that? :P

Originally Posted by Buckethead

I think I remember Andrex making a crazy ass thread a couple of years ago.
I liked his style then, I like his style now.

[IMG]http://i46.************/jshw6a.gif[/IMG]

:lol I dunno man, the only topic that comes close is my Ubisalt thread.
Last edited by Andrex; 11-23-2009 at 08:27 AM.
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
(11-23-2009, 08:30 AM)
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What creator ever looks back on their work and doesn't wish they did things differently?

It's just another example of this phenomenom IMO. Majora's Mask is still the best Zelda BTW! :D
Oblivion
Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
(11-23-2009, 08:32 AM)
ATTENTION OOT HATERS PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING BEFORE BECOMING TOO HAPPY

I'm pretty darn sure 99.9999% of people aren't going to read the actual quote and just go from the thread title, but Aonuma's referring to the technical aspects. Which he is correct about, since all its sequels (shockingly enough!) are on more powerful systems.
Last edited by Oblivion; 11-23-2009 at 08:37 AM.
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
(11-23-2009, 08:33 AM)
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I don't especially trust Aonuma with the series anymore (despite the fact that MM is one of my favorites) because both his musings and the actual games lead me to believe he's chasing a red herring as far as what makes a "better" Zelda game. True, WW and TP are superior to OoT on a purely technical level, but imo the real problem with Zelda these days isn't that it doesn't do enough new things (which seems to be the common refrain), but rather that the overall integration between elements is lacking. These games have a thousand brilliant little bits and pieces strewn throughout, but those aren't what makes a game great in and of themselves. Everything from the controls to art direction have changed and evolved from game to game, but the underlying structure from which they hang has gotten progressively looser and more unbalanced. On a surface level the newer games have all the bells and whistles you expect from a generational leap, yet some of the core principles like balance and pacing seem to suffer. It's as if the games are hitting a lot of notes simultaneously, but they lack harmony.

I'm not against seeing the series move in a new direction, but I don't think that's ultimately what's paramount. As much as Aonuma seems to believe it's essential to move the series forward in a new direction I believe it's necessary to look back at and see what makes some of the earlier games so timeless. Introducing new ideas and mechanics is all well and good, but ultimately how tightly they're woven into the foundational experience is what makes or breaks a game of this sort.
Last edited by GrotesqueBeauty; 11-23-2009 at 08:43 AM.
Mr.NiceGuy
Member
(11-23-2009, 08:34 AM)
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Go Aonuma, put some sense in the Nin fans.

It's so obvious that OOT is not the "best" game at the moment but who can convince them ?

OOT being No1 in GAF's list is something laughable, I mean the game is great but I can name more than 100 games that has better core gameplay and mechanics than OOT.
Osuwari
fem. sing. acc.
ἡ ἀρίνγη -ας d.o.
(11-23-2009, 08:34 AM)
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heh, i always knew it. MM > OoT.
the whole jump to 3D put OoT above what it really was.
Oblivion
Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
(11-23-2009, 08:35 AM)
Andrex, where did the original interview come from? I know it's on the revo-gamers link, but did they transcribe it from that ONM interview, or somewhere else?
VOOK
We don't know why he keeps buying PAL, either.
(11-23-2009, 08:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mr.NiceGuy

Go Aonuma, put some sense in the Nin fans.

It's so obvious that OOT is not the "best" game at the moment but who can convince them ?

OOT being No1 in GAF's list is something laughable, I mean the game is great but I can name more than 100 games that has better core gameplay and mechanics than OOT.

Cool story bro
TheExodu5
(11-23-2009, 08:36 AM)
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I agree. It, like most N64 games, has not aged well. The fluidity of it is the biggest problem for me. Damned 20fps games.
_Alkaline_
Member
(11-23-2009, 08:36 AM)
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I completed OOT for the first time only about maybe five years ago, and I absolutely adored it. I'm sure it would be the same way if I played it for the first time this year. Even in a technical sense it still looks charming - the only thing that stuck out to me were the pre-rendered backgrounds in some areas, but they looked horrible back in the 90s as well.

The Kokiri Forest remains one of my favourite places in games to visit and immerse myself in. It still looks amazing.
andymcc
Member
(11-23-2009, 08:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheExodu5

I agree. It, like most N64 games, has not aged well. The fluidity of it is the biggest problem for me. Damned 20fps games.

i think super mario 64 has aged much, much better than oot.
cosmicblizzard
Shounen Iconoclast
(11-23-2009, 08:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mr.NiceGuy

Go Aonuma, put some sense in the Nin fans.

It's so obvious that OOT is not the "best" game at the moment but who can convince them ?

OOT being No1 in GAF's list is something laughable, I mean the game is great but I can name more than 100 games that has better core gameplay and mechanics than OOT.

Butthurt much?
bluemax
Banned
(11-23-2009, 08:40 AM)
HA! I'm vindicated at last! I've been saying that OoT doesn't hold up anymore and now it comes from the man himself!

YES!
TheExodu5
(11-23-2009, 08:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by andymcc

i think super mario 64 has aged much, much better than oot.

That's because it's one of the very few 30fps N64 games out there. The vast majority are locked at 20fps, which is pretty unplayable by today's standards.
_Alkaline_
Member
(11-23-2009, 08:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mr.NiceGuy

Go Aonuma, put some sense in the Nin fans.

It's so obvious that OOT is not the "best" game at the moment but who can convince them ?

OOT being No1 in GAF's list is something laughable, I mean the game is great but I can name more than 100 games that has better core gameplay and mechanics than OOT.

People who think that OoT is one of the best games of all time are absolutely correct. It is one of the best games of all time, and still has several crucial elements that have yet to be surpassed.

People who blame nostalgia are just as bad as people who are blinded by it.
A Twisty Fluken
Member
(11-23-2009, 08:41 AM)
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he sounds like he's got his shit together, which gives me faith. i like that he realizes that recreating OoT is about recreating the feeling (which is what made OoT so great. like SM64, it wasn't a zelda game, it was a new game that captured that core feeling of zelda. it wasn't just LTTP in 3D, and that achievement is what knocked all of us on our asses)
Oblivion
Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
(11-23-2009, 08:46 AM)
this thread is going to cause me to not use my inside voice

Originally Posted by Osuwari

the whole jump to 3D put OoT above what it really was.

Yep. As evidenced by the fact that games like Sonic Adventure 1 and Castlevania 64 are likewise considered the best games in their series.

Originally Posted by bluemax

HA! I'm vindicated at last! I've been saying that OoT doesn't hold up anymore and now it comes from the man himself!

YES!

sorry bro

Originally Posted by The man himself

"I'm happy that a title I worked on some time ago remains highly praised to this day, but that also shows how none of the subsequent games in the series have surpassed it," Aonuma said in an interview with Nintendo Power (via Nintendo Everything). "As someone who is still working on the series, I have mixed feelings about that. Because I haven't yet surpassed it, I can't quit. Surprisingly, that simple motivation may be the reason I continue to work on the Zelda series."



Also, how do I change the color of text again? If there was ever a case to need red text...
Black-Wind
(11-23-2009, 09:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by Oblivion

Yep. As evidenced by the fact that games like Sonic Adventure 1 and Castlevania 64 are likewise considered the best games in their series.

Come on man, don't throw in BS if your trying to make at point.

When a famed and loved series or IP or w/e goes to the "next level" like from 2D to 3D (or B&W cartoons that went into color) and its done well people love it.

When they go into the "next level" and it turns out shit then people say " . . . maybe NEXT time they will get it right . . . " and some part of them knows it will not likely happen but they hope it will.

No one said it wasn't done well, just that over time, because of how its the first in the series to open up such a new world (3D), those feelings from playing it back then effect how people see it now.
AniHawk
Cranky. Very cranky.
Rather sarcastic to boot.
(11-23-2009, 09:08 AM)
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The circumstances that led to OoT's release made it a huge deal for me. While I might not recognize it as the greatest game ever anymore (TP is a better game), the experience I had, the feeling I felt when I played it makes it my favorite. It was a strong sense of joy I had playing the game that was in stark contrast to everything else that was going on in my life at that time. It provided three solid weeks of much-needed escapism and most of that is just because how well it was designed.

But yeah, TP came out at a point where everything was pretty hunky-dory, so the situation was different and I didn't have the same emotional response. It is a pretty fantastic game though, and better than OoT, but it's not my favorite.
Scrow
Still Tagged Accordingly
(11-23-2009, 09:10 AM)
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these comments by aonuma make me worry that he doesn't actually understand why OOT was/is so good.
Cygnus X-1
Member
(11-23-2009, 09:18 AM)
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I'm so happy that Aonuma is aware that the next Zelda needs changes. Ocarina of Time was not fantastic only because of its content, but mostly because the gameplay mechanics, in particular the z-lock-on system was a revolution and it worked incredibly well. So well, that until now it has been used in every Zelda it followed.

Time for a change, as he correctly said.

Originally Posted by Jangaroo

Kind of surprised to see him say that OoT doesn't hold up well today. It's still very playable.

It' a matter of opinion I guess. Notice: this interview came out exactly a few days after the GAF decided democratically that Ocarina of time is the best game ever. Quite ironic.
MvmntInGrn
Member
(11-23-2009, 09:21 AM)
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Thats confusing. He is saying the newer Zeldas are technically (as in elements like visuals) better but have not bested OOT right?

Thats what it sounds like, if so he didn't discredit anything.

EDIT: I agree that the series needs a new step, but I'm afraid what that will be honestly.
RockmanWhore
Member
(11-23-2009, 09:22 AM)
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I totally agree with him, enough with the OoT "remakes", I need some new stuff! Now I'm more hyped for the next Zelda games :p
Oblivion
Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
(11-23-2009, 09:22 AM)

Originally Posted by Black-Wind

Come on man, don't throw in BS if your trying to make at point.

When a famed and loved series or IP or w/e goes to the "next level" like from 2D to 3D (or B&W cartoons that went into color) and its done well people love it.

When they go into the "next level" and it turns out shit then people say " . . . maybe NEXT time they will get it right . . . " and some part of them knows it will not likely happen but they hope it will.

No one said it wasn't done well, just that over time, because of how its the first in the series to open up such a new world (3D), those feelings from playing it back then effect how people see it now.

Except the thing is, this criticism, that OoT just got lucky cause it was the first 3D Zelda ignores all the other things it did to make itself seem memorable. Plenty of games do something first, but rarely do those games get the same amount of praise. Why is OoT one of the few exceptions to this rule?



edit: here's the full interview, btw

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...nvmK_pzZ4gFXZg
Last edited by Oblivion; 11-23-2009 at 09:26 AM.
Nekofrog
Member
(11-23-2009, 09:25 AM)
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Misleading subject is misleading. Shame on you.
SCReuter
Member
(11-23-2009, 09:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by luka

He's right. I'd rather play WW than OoT any day of the week, despite how amazing and revolutionary it was. It's simply a better game (unless you absolutely hate sailing).

Here's another quote:

"When a project grows continuously, you have to split it to pieces. I was the director for Wind Waker, but I let different people be responsible for different parts of the production. I had control of how things were going for them, but at the end of the production we fought against the clock and there were parts that I was forced to approve even though it didn't feel complete. I apologize that we didn't fix the triforce hunt at the end of the game. It was slow and dull." -- Eiji Aonuma

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