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Aonuma: I've been remaking Ocarina of Time for years; OoT is "not that good" today.
- Thread starter ThatObviousUser
- Start date
silverbullet1080
Banned
E3 2010 can't come soon enough.
Zoramon089
Banned
upandaway said:
You realize how insanely difficult that would be to create? Not saying it wouldn't be awesome but the fact that dungeons are so heavily linked to specific items to allow progression, the way you'd have it, it would end up with people finding dungeons, realizing they can't progress and backtracking and repeating until they find the item necessary to go on.
I can't really think of a way for them to allow you to explore dungeons in any order without their being massive backtracking. And let's say they simply made any dungeon able to be progressed through with any combination of items, what would be the point of them? To simply make it easier? There'd have to be some sort of significant incentive to get the item as opposed to just going through the dungeon. And then, let's not forget the bosses. How would they allow them to be beaten without you having the correct item?
I agree there should be WAY more sidequests and such but there needs to be some established order in progressing through dungeons. At best I could see them clustered so, let's say there are 8 dungeons. The first 3 could be done in any order, then the next 3 in any order (after the initial 3 are all completed) then the final 2 have to be done in a specific order
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Zoramon089 said:
So basically you're complaining that it would be too much like the original Zelda?
I tried playing Ocarina recently and found it to be a really tough slog.
The level of playability is just not comparable to what we expect these days. You keep hitting annoying/boring/frustrating bits that would have been playtested out of any modem game. I think our collective level of tolerance for that stuff has diminished greatly over the past 10-15 years.
The level of playability is just not comparable to what we expect these days. You keep hitting annoying/boring/frustrating bits that would have been playtested out of any modem game. I think our collective level of tolerance for that stuff has diminished greatly over the past 10-15 years.
The answer is combat. Enemies. All you need is the sword and everything else is extra.Zoramon089 said:
I didn't mention the original Zelda for nothing (this sentence goes for this whole post).
The dungeon should require the item that's in it. I don't know, maybe that's just me.
The meat of the dungeon's puzzles comes from puzzles that are built around your navigation (items are only an extension of this (unless they're items to assist combat), and if anything, they only make the puzzles easier both for the developer and the player).
The less items used during bosses, the better. Skullord is the only exception, but that's only because the Spinner is really really fun.
gamergirly
Member
silverbullet1080 said:
Yeah, even if the game doesnt release next year, something is bound to show up. I wonder what kind of cool preorder bonus they will have for Zelda Wii. A Link To The Past collectors edition this time?
He's talking about technical details folks. Not that the gameplay is "not good today".
I just gave OoT to a friend who had never played a Zelda before but is a huge game and he freakin loved it. Despite the graphics he agreed it was the best game he'd ever played. So I'm not sure what people in here are going on about.
I played OoT not that long ago and it holds up perfectly fine.
The whole time I was playing TP, I kept thinking how similar the games feel. There's nothing wrong with Ocarina.
Like with all older games, our memories will ALWAYS put a bit of extra shine on them, but that's all relative to how old we were when we played the game, and what was around at the time.
In it's day, Ocarina made us go 'Wow' even more than Uncharted 2 has done today. I still remember how many people I knew went out and bought Ocarina, and the 64 didn't have a very big install base at all, and it still sold pretty damn well.
The whole time I was playing TP, I kept thinking how similar the games feel. There's nothing wrong with Ocarina.
Like with all older games, our memories will ALWAYS put a bit of extra shine on them, but that's all relative to how old we were when we played the game, and what was around at the time.
In it's day, Ocarina made us go 'Wow' even more than Uncharted 2 has done today. I still remember how many people I knew went out and bought Ocarina, and the 64 didn't have a very big install base at all, and it still sold pretty damn well.
cartman414
Member
Parl said:
A slower pace works against a game, more often than not. Ocarina of Time is certainly no exception.
Rash said:
Following the hyperbolic praise OoT gets, and the ridiculous hate Zelda II gets, I certainly don't. Not in the least.
This. WiiWare is almost certainly the perfect venue.
blame space
Banned
Nearly unplayable in whatever buttfuck resolution/framerate the N64 put out, but it's still pretty amazing in 720p/60fps.
Version 3.0
Member
luka said:
I like the sailing, except for the tedious wind direction changing. Unfortunately for Wind Waker, I also like dungeons, difficulty, and the dual world concept. Wind Waker is better in some ways, particularly the refined controls and item management, but it's a big step backwards in others. Ocarina of Time still wins this matchup.
magicalsoundshower
Member
I disagree here, I played the Gamecube port for a bit and while the resolution and frame rate were nice, it didn't help the blurry textures and set pieces at all. The largely empty overworld was a turnoff for me too and I kind of wish the graphics artists had gone for a bolder, more saturated color scheme instead of all the olive greens and browns. While I thought the first dungeon was extremely strong and everything a first dungeon could hope to be, I was really underwhelmed when I got to explore Hyrule Field and the rest of the areas that are accessible to you after beating the first dungeon. I guess this game and me simply aren't meant to be. One thing I really can't complain about is the controls which still feel smooth and responsive today whereas I've always felt Mario in SM64 handles a bit like a tank when you're moving slowly as I've fallen off quite a number of small platforms while trying to turn into another direction.blame space said:
Dr. Strangelove
I'M COOCOO FOR COCO CRISP!
I agree. Ocarina isn't that good today. It's ugly as fuck and runs like shit. LTTP has aged gracefully, OoT has aged horribly.
Why For? said:
This. Exactly this.
Twilight Princess played like they were trying very, very hard to make OoT, but with motion controls.
I'm all for a different direction when it comes to Zelda, as long as it stays fun to explore. I think, more than anything else, Zelda games should have a sense of exploration.
Also it felt like they padded the length of TP too much by forcing you to do things that would have worked better as sidequests, but that's a different post altogether.
AceBandage
Banned
I never could finish OoT, despite loving Link's Awakening, Wind Waker, LttP and the Oracle/Seasons games.
2D games don't age. What the hell are you people talking about? That's why LttP and Link's Awakening remain awesome, why I still pine after a massive 2D Zelda for the Wii (not multiplayer, just a VAST CONTENT-RICH WORLD), and why OoT should never have beaten either of them on the All-Time list.
My most recent plays of Ocarina was on an emulator, so while there wasn't any actual slowdown it didn't magically make 20fps animations into 60fps animations. As such it looks jittery by today's standards, but it's still the same game it was eleven years ago. I agree with everything he's said (except that MM is slightly better).
Zoramon089
Banned
upandaway said:
I dunno, I think many of you are forgetting how much of a HUGE step the series has taken since Zelda 1. What you're suggesting is allowing every dungeon to be traversed with a single item which sounds absolutely awful. That's a good way to completely eliminate a large amount of the creativity and complexity dungeons...Zelda 1 had extremely simple dungeons that at best are as complex as a single room in recent Zelda games. Going back to that would be horrible
Of course OoT doesn't impress as much now. There's nothing new about it anymore and the visuals are dated. Why is this a revelation for some of you?
When people (rightly) venerate it to astronomical levels it's because they're considering it from the viewpoint of when it came out. Very few games have had such a permanent impact on game design that shows up everywhere still today.
This is really all he's getting at IMO. LOL @ OoT haters trying to pull some told-ya-so with this.
When people (rightly) venerate it to astronomical levels it's because they're considering it from the viewpoint of when it came out. Very few games have had such a permanent impact on game design that shows up everywhere still today.
This is really all he's getting at IMO. LOL @ OoT haters trying to pull some told-ya-so with this.
I do not think that everyone is actually looking at it from this perspective. There definitely seems to be at least a few people blinded by childhood nostalgia who praise OoT because they seem to think that we should be making games exactly like OoT again, which I really disagree with. It's way too soon to go back to that. The ideas of OoT still need to settle a lot more before they can be reinvented.140.85 said:
If we're going to go back to old game design ideas, there's actually a lot of interesting game design from even further back (8-bit era, early 16-bit era) that I believe needs to be looked at more thoroughly.
edit: to be fair though I don't really see anyone in this particular thread expressing the opinion I'm complaining about
edit 2:
Cool then we agreecartman414 said:
(sorry if that was ambiguous, the opinion I meant I didn't see was the opinion I'm attacking, not the one I'm advocating. Though when I wrote this post I didn't see yours on the first page, either)
cartman414
Member
DeBurgo said:
I've been advocating going back that far.
140.85 said:
Not all of the innovations (z-targeting, auto-jump) are necessarily things that have to be adhered to every single time out.
Majora's Mask has shown that Aounuma is incredibly talented. His problem is he's trying too hard to fill Miyamoto's shoes instead of realizing his own visions. He isn't Miyamoto, he's Aounuma.
Do we know Miyamoto's opinion about Majora's Mask? I have the feeling that he shattered Aounuma's self-confidence with disliking it.
Do we know Miyamoto's opinion about Majora's Mask? I have the feeling that he shattered Aounuma's self-confidence with disliking it.
The first Zelda game I played was OoT, so if nostalgia is going to blind me it should blind me in favor of Ocarina--but I still think it has aged poorly. In contrast LttP still seems vibrant and exciting.
My dream Zelda would have an art direction somewhere between Wind Waker and Dragon Quest VIII, and map packed-full of stuff like the post-LttP 2D Zeldas.
My dream Zelda would have an art direction somewhere between Wind Waker and Dragon Quest VIII, and map packed-full of stuff like the post-LttP 2D Zeldas.
Dr Bad Dude PHD
Banned
LOL @ OoT fanboys who are butthurt because Aonuma is on our side.140.85 said:
ShockingAlberto
Member
...Aonuma worked on OoT, guys.
He's not going "MAN NOTHING ABOUT THAT GAME IS GOOD OR WAS EVER GOOD" as some people in this thread are trying to imply.
He's not going "MAN NOTHING ABOUT THAT GAME IS GOOD OR WAS EVER GOOD" as some people in this thread are trying to imply.
amtentori said:
I agree, man. And I myself finally got a chance to play and beat after I beat WW, and I still loved the experience even more than WW. The feeling of the game and how everything tied together was something unique. And that same feeling is probably what Zelda fans want again. Easier said than done, sadly.
timetokill
Banned
Kaijima said:
Link to the Past did more "damage" than anything if you're talking about where the series is now. Link to the Past was dead easy compared to earlier Zeldas, and I never felt "in danger" in LttP except in maybe one dungeon, and that was through visuals and music -- not enemies. And Ocarina had more atmospheric and foreboding dungeons... the Forest Temple and Bottom of the Well are creepier to me than anything in LttP.
I agree that I would like more "to do" in the overworld, but obviously making mazes, as they did in the 2D Zeldas, is not really possible or enjoyable in a 3D Zelda when it influences everywhere you go.
And remember that Ocarina was basically copying LttP's structure. It removed the overworld maze structure and added in a bunch of new elements to make up for it.
I've wished for a Zelda I "remake" for a long time, but not in a strict sense of remaking the dungeons and the overworld. Rather, making the game about a big world that you just explore, with no "go here then here then here" linearity.
But then again, Nintendo is better at design nowadays, and design is about making experiences that players want. And most players do NOT want something as difficult or non-linear as Zelda. Even GTA has missions and a plot that takes you from point A to point B. Most gamers need to be led and once they don't know what to do, they stop playing.
I'd be content if his idea of radical change being each new item is some really cool Wii-mote inspired thingamajig (not shoehorning wiimote functions into existing classic items). But what I really want is a complete overhaul of the Zelda system, really dig into it and figure out what works and what doesn't work (i.e. overworlds devoid of inhabitants or not worth exploring).
_Alkaline_
Member
Those of you who are saying that it's only highly rated today because of nostalgia need to STFU and actually appreciate what makes a good game.
I only played the game for the first time back in 2004 - AFTER I had played Majora's Mask and Wind Waker - and it still blew me away. It's a brilliant game, and I don't give a fuck how much you blame nostalgia or some shit for people still thinking it rocks.
People still think it's amazing because that's exactly what it is.
I only played the game for the first time back in 2004 - AFTER I had played Majora's Mask and Wind Waker - and it still blew me away. It's a brilliant game, and I don't give a fuck how much you blame nostalgia or some shit for people still thinking it rocks.
People still think it's amazing because that's exactly what it is.
leroidys said:
It's not just graphics, but controls are more fluid too. As for the 'confusing sequences', he's probably referring to things like the water temple, which he acknowledged long ago. There's nothing in here that's inconsistent with what he's said in the past and how he feels about the game.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
i wonder if this falls under some sort of "authorial intent" umbrella for video games or something? like, if melville came out twenty years after writing MOBY DICK and called it a shitty book, would it matter?