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Lonely1
Junior Member
(03-10-2010, 11:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by neorej

Your claims of Wiimote precision are not demonstrated anywhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YePLMI9pu4

Originally Posted by neorej

Hell, they even needed to add a peripheral to make it more accurate. And still it's dodgy, especially when you're 10 feet away from the sensorbar.
But hell, all hail Wii and everything.

WM+ attachment do crap to the pointer. Shows how much you know.

Anyway, sorry if this turned into systems wars. I originally came here to give my input on what I understand of the technical merits of each aproach. I'm really hyped for Arc, like i showed in the Kz3 Arc thread. Night.
Last edited by Lonely1; 03-10-2010 at 11:08 AM.
spwolf
If this poster agrees with you, you're probably doing something very wrong.
(03-10-2010, 12:50 PM)
so when is the official stuff coming out?

p.s. can you wii-comparing guys find another thread to argue? i dont feel like reading billion "just a tech demo" posts to find out if there was anything new here... maybe mods should start thread such as that forza3 vs gt5 so everyone would keep shit out of other threads?
yurinka
Member
(03-10-2010, 01:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sidewinder

I don't really see how MS has shown more actual gameplay examples than Sony. They just showed it with one true game (Burnout), the ball hitting thing isn't anymore or less a tech demo than the many little Sony Wand applications we've seen so far. Oh and by the way RE5 was showcased with the Sony Wand too right?


As a side note, I'm far more impressed by the Wand stuff than the quirky Natal implementation we've seen yet. Airsteering, stepforwardaccelerating/stepbackwardbreaking and jumping around like a madman isn't something. I'm looking forward to at all.

EDIT:

What MS did manage to do better than Sony is PR and Marketing of Natal and IMHO it's because of the "novelty" of the approach and the technical prowess of the full body scanning, certainly not because of pure gameplay überpawnage. Sonys idea seems to be just a 1:1 copy of the Nintendo Wii, so not interesting at all for many people.

Sonys idea is the results of their own R&D showed back in 2005 where they also demoed most of the current "innovating" Natal features. There is a 2005 youtube vid where appears the Eyetoy/Wand guy showing that in a University conference. And BTW, people seems to forget the Xavix console and that Sega Mega Drive motion controller.

I agree with the PR / marketing statement.
Last edited by yurinka; 03-10-2010 at 01:05 PM.
swerve
Member
(03-10-2010, 01:07 PM)
Lonely1, dude, calm down. This is neat tech - exactly what Sony does best and exactly what Nintendo were expecting from them, much sooner than 'late 2010'.

You should be welcoming of Arc. It lets all of us fully explore the accuracy issue of motion controllers, what's going to rock, and what's going to suck. It's not a threat to Wii, it's four years too late for that. It's a threat to whatever Nintendo have next.

It doesn't matter if MotionPlus can or can not do what Arc does in that tech demo*, because no developers are using Wii M+ for that purpose, so it's irrelevant. If GAF finally gets the light-sabre game it's been crying for since 2006 on Arc, Arc will be worth it.

*Motion plus can, technically, do that demo excluding the camera, but Nintendo have always had a policy of showing off in-game usage. And then the wrist-strap gets in the way anyway, and if you have up-scale lag on an HD TV M+ can seem slow... the Sony solution is much more geared towards guys who are geared towards hi-tech gear.

Just relax. For those five years that SCE have been focused on Arc, Nintendo's been focused on something else cool to entertain us all with.
gofreak
GAF's Bob Woodward
(03-10-2010, 01:17 PM)
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Looking at that GIF... you could take those eyetoy play fighting games to a ridiculous level.

With eyetoy, the fighting games were side-on 2D affairs. You'd be on one side of the screen, turned to the side against the TV, the computer opponent on the other. It just mapped your motion in 2D to hits and punches against whatever foe was on the other side of the screen.

With this, though, you could make the enemy totally 3D, and you could give the player a weapon to wield...and now you can track that in 3D space with precision, so you can attack that opponent in 3D with as much precision and detail as you had in that E3 third person sword demo. You could potentially even walk around your opponent and so on - the AI is not really tracking 'you' - it's tracking the sword but it looks like it's seeing you moving around etc.

It would be neat to see that evolution. Yes, of course, mapping this control into a non-augmented reality game is great too, but I think a lot of people would find it neat to have a AR sword fighting game with this level of fidelity and precision in 3D space.
Bad_Boy
time to take my meds
(03-10-2010, 01:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by gofreak

Looking at that GIF...

I starting to hope the PS4 gets shipped with a ARC controller out of the box so it's more standard for devs to use.
Suzzopher
Member
(03-10-2010, 01:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bad_Boy

I starting to hope the PS4 gets shipped with a ARC controller out of the box so it's more standard for devs to use.

That gif alone has caused quite a stir:lol
spwolf
If this poster agrees with you, you're probably doing something very wrong.
(03-10-2010, 01:24 PM)

Originally Posted by Bad_Boy

I starting to hope the PS4 gets shipped with a ARC controller out of the box so it's more standard for devs to use.

with Motion controller using same SDK as dualshocks, there is no reason really for devs not to support it. Thats why it is being announced left and right. It is very easy thing to do.
Bad_Boy
time to take my meds
(03-10-2010, 01:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Suzzopher

That gif alone has caused quite a stir:lol

Indeed. the Q&A video really puts in perspective the capabilities. Fighting games, Sports games, shooting games with more acurate 1:1 movement.

I'm grateful for nintendo's attempt at motion control, because who knows if sony would of actually gone through with so much support for Dr. Marks. :)

Originally Posted by spwolf

with Motion controller using same SDK as dualshocks, there is no reason really for devs not to support it. Thats why it is being announced left and right. It is very easy thing to do.

Well that is very good to hear. :)
swerve
Member
(03-10-2010, 01:35 PM)

Originally Posted by Bad_Boy

I starting to hope the PS4 gets shipped with a ARC controller out of the box so it's more standard for devs to use.

Why not PS3?
Suzzopher
Member
(03-10-2010, 01:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by swerve

Why not PS3?

Splits the user base? Launching it as standard in PS4 would keep the playing field even.
gofreak
GAF's Bob Woodward
(03-10-2010, 01:43 PM)
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Time to put your detective hats on, kids.

SCEI just yesterday trademarked two things, in Europe:

1) PlayStation Move

Game controllers for consumer video game consoles for use with an external display screen or monitor and attachment devices therefor

2) This non-word mark:

[IMG]http://i42.************/mcf2w8.jpg[/IMG]

Under the same classification.

Now...the word mark says one thing, but the non-word mark says another IMO :lol Sony throwing out confusion? I think the non-word mark could be the logo for Arc. It looks like a A, and it hints at the motion of the sphere as if in timelapse, the trace of the light on a timelapse video.

Hmmm.
Last edited by gofreak; 03-10-2010 at 01:45 PM. Reason: small correction...scei trademarked them in europe, not scee
Suzzopher
Member
(03-10-2010, 01:45 PM)
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I really want it to be called Arc. I have no idea why, but I like the sound of it.
Kinan
Member
(03-10-2010, 01:49 PM)
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Damn, and I got already used to Arc. Move is not bad too, but a bit too obvious.
Audioboxer87
Banned
(03-10-2010, 01:55 PM)
Liking the looks of it, I hope with a vast pool of 1st party studios Sony can really pump some nice software through this.

Accuracy is something I like, and so is feedback, aka your old fashioned rumble and being able to hold something.

However until the software pops up purchase is still on the wall, interest however is definitely in the court.
yurinka
Member
(03-10-2010, 01:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by spwolf

with Motion controller using same SDK as dualshocks, there is no reason really for devs not to support it. Thats why it is being announced left and right. It is very easy thing to do.

Arc motion sensor library is done by the same guys that did WiimotePlus library. Really easy to use, they posted a video demoing it using WiiMotePlus.

Originally Posted by gofreak

Time to put your detective hats on, kids.

SCEI just yesterday trademarked two things, in Europe:

1) PlayStation Move



2) This non-word mark:

[IMG]http://i42.************/mcf2w8.jpg[/IMG]

Under the same classification.

Now...the word mark says one thing, but the non-word mark says another IMO :lol Sony throwing out confusion? I think the non-word mark could be the logo for Arc. It looks like a A, and it hints at the motion of the sphere as if in timelapse, the trace of the light on a timelapse video.

Hmmm.

Great name and logo. I think they will work.
sankt-Antonio
Member
(03-10-2010, 02:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Suzzopher

I really want it to be called Arc. I have no idea why, but I like the sound of it.

it will not be named arc in europe - mark my words... !!!
dose
Member
(03-10-2010, 02:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by sankt-Antonio

it will not be named arc in europe - mark my words... !!!

Why won't it?
DMeisterJ
Banned
(03-10-2010, 02:36 PM)
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Sony Motion Controller to be named 'Move'... Bye bye Arc D:

I want it to be named Arc.
yurinka
Member
(03-10-2010, 02:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by DMeisterJ

Sony Motion Controller to be named 'Move'... Bye bye Arc D:

I want it to be named Arc.

I like PS Move. It's more descriptive, and it's like PS Eye. And like "Play", a common de-facto (at least in Spain) short name for a PlayStation console.
Double H
Member
(03-10-2010, 02:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by gofreak

Time to put your detective hats on, kids.

SCEI just yesterday trademarked two things, in Europe:

1) PlayStation Move

SCEI's also registered a whole bunch of PlayStation Move related domains, earlier this month they did the same for something called PlayStation Plus. All will hopefully be revealed soon.
thuway
Member
(03-10-2010, 03:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lonely1

And Sega Activator was before that. Nintendo get the props for making motion controls their primary input method and succeding.

Dude let it go. Its getting pretty damn annoying. Yes, we all get it, we should all praise Nintendo for whatever they have done for motion controls, but this is a thread about SONY'S implementation of motion controls.
Shurs
Member
(03-10-2010, 03:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lonely1

Night.

I bet when he sleeps he rests his head on a Kirby pillowcase.
warthog
Banned
(03-10-2010, 03:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by expy

What's great about this is that, in my eyes, it looks as if those two are so immersed in that little "test" that their controllers actually look like they have "weight" to them (as in taking on the weight of the swords).

Haha, I was just thinking the same thing.
sankt-Antonio
Member
(03-10-2010, 03:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by dose

Why won't it?

its not one of the english words that have made it into the set of people not really speaking english...

words like ... laptop, slim, move, arcade, love, smile, fastfood, frirmware, etc. did.

my parents know the meaning of these kinds of words - "arc" to them is like japanese... and to many europeans to... well to everyone who is not good in english

its one thing to create a new word, like bravia or zune... but calling it "arc" is just sounding very harsh, almost rude and if you dont know its meaning - its terrible...
germans calling it "arc" would be a PR nightmare for sony germany...

edit: i love the name, but i see no point in it calling it arc in europe... people dont know what it means ... and all that is left is a fucked up sounding word
Last edited by sankt-Antonio; 03-10-2010 at 03:18 PM.
Oozinator
Banned
(03-10-2010, 03:16 PM)
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when is Sony gonna show the nunchaku ?
DMPrince
Member
(03-10-2010, 03:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Oozinator

when is Sony gonna show the nunchaku ?

probably at their conference that starts in
Koren
Member
(03-10-2010, 03:24 PM)

Originally Posted by sankt-Antonio

and to many europeans to... well to everyone who is not good in english

Actually, it's "arc" in french and "arco" in italian and spanish, so it wouldn't seems so strange for all europeans. But for people speaking german and german-related languages may find it more strange, indeed.
SecretBonusPoint
Banned
(03-10-2010, 03:28 PM)

Originally Posted by sankt-Antonio

its not one of the english words that have made it into the set of people not really speaking english...

words like ... laptop, slim, move, arcade, love, smile, fastfood, frirmware, etc. did.

my parents know the meaning of these kinds of words - "arc" to them is like japanese... and to many europeans to... well to everyone who is not good in english

its one thing to create a new word, like bravia or zune... but calling it "arc" is just sounding very harsh, almost rude and if you dont know its meaning - its terrible...
germans calling it "arc" would be a PR nightmare for sony germany...

edit: i love the name, but i see no point in it calling it arc in europe... people dont know what it means ... and all that is left is a fucked up sounding word

Yes, its not like one of the most famous european monuments is called the fucking Arc de Triomphe now is it. Just because you and your family have not encountered the word doesn't make it an awful branding. See also the 'PR nightmare' that is "Wii".

Try not to use your limited vocab and world knowledge as an assurance of something in the future.
DMeisterJ
Banned
(03-10-2010, 03:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by DMPrince

probably at their conference that starts in

9 hours 27 minutes and 45 seconds
Pristine_Condition
Member
(03-10-2010, 03:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hero

The gif is impressive but I want to see some actual games for this instead of tech demos.

Sony came late to a party that Nintendo started after making fun of it and calling it gimmicky for the first three years.


Fixed that for you, junior.

(Sigh.)

You fixed nothing. In fact, you are attempting to rewrite history. Unfortunately, the facts aren't in your favor.

His original quote, before you "fixed" it, was perfectly fine:

Originally Posted by Trailblaster

Zoramon there no need to defend Nintendo's motion controller here. Acknowledging what Sony is doing with thier motion controller is not a knock on the Wii. Sony and Nintendo came at the same problem from different directions but Sony solution clearly doing things the Wii isn't. That fact dosen't take away from what Nintendo manage to accomplish this Gen.

That seems perfectly reasonable. Why you had to drag the same old System Wars bullshit into it is beyond me.

It serves no purpose in this thread. Worse still, you are stating things as fact in your "fixed" quote that simply aren't true at all.

Want proof? OK...

Here's what Dr. Richard Marks, the man in charge of Sony's R&D efforts for the past decade, said about this technology to Gamasutra waaaaaay back in 2004, which was more than a year before the Revolution/Wii plan was revealed, and more than two years before it made one red cent for Nintendo:

Originally Posted by Gamasutra

Q: What future hardware innovation do you see as being especially important for games?

A: I think that microphones will become part of the system for sure. They won't completely change everything, and you won't do everything through the microphone, but it'll be there as part of something you can use. Voice recognition in the future won't be that expensive in terms of computation to use, so you can have it included basically for free. With regard to cameras, the biggest innovation that will occur is in terms of getting data out of a camera in a really rich way. We need a really good 3D sensor, and if you have that, that'll be as important as the Z-buffer is for graphics.

http://www.gamasutra.com/gdc2004/fea...marks_01.shtml

Well that flies right in the face of your claim, doesn't it?

Obviously, Sony didn't think a 3D motion control solution was a gimmick even well before the Revolution/Wii was revealed or making any money. The man in charge of this project clearly said it would be someday be one of the most important innovations in games way back in 2004. Sony invested around a decade in R&D time and R&D dollars developing this kind of thing.

If you think Sony is just a "Johnny-come-lately" here, or hasn't been quite serious about developing a 3D motion controller, you haven't been paying attention. That's your problem, not Sony's. Sony's interest and R&D in this area has been well-known for years and years. They've done tons of very public tech demos over many, many years talking about this tech, and they've spent tons of money over the last decade developing this thing.
Bad_Boy
time to take my meds
(03-10-2010, 03:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by gofreak

Time to put your detective hats on, kids.

SCEI just yesterday trademarked two things, in Europe:

1) PlayStation Move



2) This non-word mark:

[IMG]http://i42.************/mcf2w8.jpg[/IMG]

Under the same classification.

Now...the word mark says one thing, but the non-word mark says another IMO :lol Sony throwing out confusion? I think the non-word mark could be the logo for Arc. It looks like a A, and it hints at the motion of the sphere as if in timelapse, the trace of the light on a timelapse video.

Hmmm.

Holy fuck gofreak, you really are gaf's Bob Woodward. :lol I think you just found Arcs logo, I dont think any news sites have reported that yet. gaf> news> gaf lol
mrwilt
Member
(03-10-2010, 03:59 PM)

Originally Posted by Bad_Boy

Holy fuck gofreak, you really are gaf's Bob Woodward. :lol I think you just found Arcs logo, I dont think any news sites have reported that yet. gaf> news> gaf lol

Well if they name it "Move" that logo looks like the start of the letter "M". Well, at least two thirds of it, just needs the other leg on the right. Or it could be part of an EKG rhythm strip "showing that Playstation is on the pulse of the gamer". :lol Yeah, can't wait until 7pm tonight. :D
Bad_Boy
time to take my meds
(03-10-2010, 04:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by mrwilt

Well if they name it "Move" that logo looks like the start of the letter "M". Well, at least two thirds of it, just needs the other leg on the right. Or it could be part of an EKG rhythm strip "showing that Playstation is on the pulse of the gamer". :lol Yeah, can't wait until 7pm tonight. :D

wow that soon, didnt even realize. nice :)
though I like the sound of ARC better, in the bane of augmented reality controller is going to sound cooler imho when marketing this device.

Originally Posted by Suzzopher

Splits the user base? Launching it as standard in PS4 would keep the playing field even.

Exactly. Just how not everyone who owns a ps3 has a headset, or a playstation eye. Imagine how much games support those accessories would get if the ps3 had them out of the box at launch. We could be playing god of war 3 in a completely new way in one boss fight, and switch back to classic style in the next boss fight. or maybe not just GT5 would have head tracking, but every single racing game on the ps3 would as a standard option for players. Or maybe add headset support in games to use voice commands not just in socom, but in Batman:AA2 like batman does in the movies. Who knows..
sankt-Antonio
Member
(03-10-2010, 04:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by SecretBonusPoint

Yes, its not like one of the most famous european monuments is called the fucking Arc de Triomphe now is it. Just because you and your family have not encountered the word doesn't make it an awful branding. See also the 'PR nightmare' that is "Wii".

Try not to use your limited vocab and world knowledge as an assurance of something in the future
.

well its not. secondly, who cares about the french? ... :D



wii is "we" in funny, thats perfectly fine -

arc is crap (for PR), you will see that that name is not marketable in most of eu and it will make more sence calling it ps move or whatever ...

just try to imagine a german voice speaking the word "ARrrrC" out loud... yes it sounds that bad...

: do not forget, i like the name very much - its just not a name for a mass product ...

edit:
and you cant read? i never said i dont know the meaning of the word...
+ you have to reach the people that only speak rudimentary english
Last edited by sankt-Antonio; 03-10-2010 at 04:26 PM.
Maxrunner
Member
(03-10-2010, 04:12 PM)
I thought the eyetoy had low resolution
spwolf
If this poster agrees with you, you're probably doing something very wrong.
(03-10-2010, 04:16 PM)

Originally Posted by DMeisterJ

9 hours 27 minutes and 45 seconds

thanks ;-)
jaypah
Member
(03-10-2010, 04:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by IrrelevantNotch

I wonder if the Wiitards in this thread are just poor kids who can't afford a PS3

holy time machine! :lol

man, PS3 fanatics are going to be HILARIOUS. i can't wait for E3. aside from ARC looking fuck awesome i've noticed a lot of shitting on the Wii lately. smh.

good times though.
UntoldDreams
Member
(03-10-2010, 04:24 PM)

Originally Posted by jaypah

holy time machine! :lol

man, PS3 fanatics are going to be HILARIOUS. i can't wait for E3. aside from ARC looking fuck awesome i've noticed a lot of shitting on the Wii lately. smh.

good times though.

"Lately" ?
Edit: The Wii gets it rather consistently from what I see and often unfairly but that is a side effect of not making bald space marines more common on the device.
Linkified
Member
(03-10-2010, 04:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Maxrunner

I thought the eyetoy had low resolution

Arc uses the PlaystationEye though.
dogmaan
Girl got arse pubes.
(03-10-2010, 04:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by sankt-Antonio

well its not. secondly, who cares about the french? ... :D



wii is "we" in funny, thats perfectly fine -

acr is crap (for PR), you will see that that name is not marketable in most of eu and it will make more sence calling it ps move or whatever ...

just try to imagine a german voice speaking the word "ARrrrC" out loud... yes it sounds that bad...

: do not forget, i like the name very much - its just not a name for a mass product ...

edit:
and you cant read? i never said i dont know the meaning of the word...
+ you have to reach the people that only speak rudimentary english

Wii could also mean Wee, as in piss or urine, in English

if you choose one word for an international product, you are always going to run the chance of colliding with another languages interpretation of the word
Zoramon089
Banned
(03-10-2010, 04:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by neorej

Don't tell me you didn't expect that to happen. Wii Defence Force is coming in at full force.

When you start making ignorant comments about the Wii and it's motion control capabilties, you can't expect people to not try and correct you. This is still GAF, despite you thinking this topic as you're own little Sony Land where anything goes...

I have yet to say a single negative thing about the Sony arc in this topic, only to dispel comments that this couldn't be done on the motion+ which most of you, despite having not have used AT ALL, seem to believe. You so easily believe the videos of other people using the Arc yet actual testimony from others using the motion+ is completely brushed aside
sankt-Antonio
Member
(03-10-2010, 04:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by dogmaan

Wii could also mean Wee, as in piss, in English

ha, okay... nerver crossed my mind,
but this somehow proves my point that names in different countries can lead to some "problems" .... bigger and smaller ones...

not only interpretation, but the sound of spelling it is what makes me think it might be bad

- who knows, could be that i am the only one who thinks that way ... forget it and move on then?
Last edited by sankt-Antonio; 03-10-2010 at 04:35 PM.
Chittagong
Member
(03-10-2010, 04:34 PM)
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still not seeing any news... although they have been "10 minutes away" from announcing it for a day already
BruceWayneIII
Member
(03-10-2010, 04:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Maxrunner

I thought the eyetoy had low resolution

PlayStation Eye resolution:

640x480 at 60 Hz
320x240 at 120 Hz

Can't remember the EyeToy resolution.
Maxrunner
Member
(03-10-2010, 05:05 PM)

Originally Posted by BruceWayneIII

PlayStation Eye resolution:

640x480 at 60 Hz
320x240 at 120 Hz

Can't remember the EyeToy resolution.



so wouldnt that make it less precise when aiming?not talking about the other capabilities. I've read that the wiimote had an infrared camera with high resolution. Or did i read wrong?... i think it was that oriental guy who made those awsome demos using the wiimote...he said something about the wiimote having a hi-res(1024x780 or something) infrared camera
modulaire
Member
(03-10-2010, 05:06 PM)
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Can't wait to play "Tiger Woods PGA Tour 11" with Arc.
Beardz
Junior Member
(03-10-2010, 05:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by sankt-Antonio

ha, okay... nerver crossed my mind,
but this somehow proves my point that names in different countries can lead to some "problems" .... bigger and smaller ones...

not only interpretation, but the sound of spelling it is what makes me think it might be bad

- who knows, could be that i am the only one who thinks that way ... forget it and move on then?

Stop the nonsense, just stop it!

People doesn't need to know the meaning of the word; Arc is just another name...
onken
Member
(03-10-2010, 05:12 PM)
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Damn proxy blocking everything, can't see the GIF, someone rehost on flickr or something please :(
BruceWayneIII
Member
(03-10-2010, 05:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Maxrunner

so wouldnt that make it less precise when aiming?not talking about the other capabilities. I've read that the wiimote had an infrared camera with high resolution. Or did i read wrong?... i think it was that oriental guy who made those awsome demos using the wiimote...he said something about the wiimote having a hi-res(1024x780 or something) infrared camera

Well, the 120 Hz is suited to track the movements very fast. But the whole motion setup is a combination of the camera's tracking and the internal readings on the Arc. That makes it very precise.

I should note that I don't know what camera resolution SONY's been using in their demos. Might as well have been the 60 Hz option.

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