[TheExodu5]

Pando Media Booster that comes with the LOTRO downloaded uses up all of your effective upload bandwidth as it seeds files to other clients. It comes with the LOTRO downloader and I never recall being prompted to allow it to use my bandwidth.

My post to Turbine. I'm really pissed off at the moment.

I resubbed to LOTRO last week. Since I resubbed, I noticed I was pinging very badly in games, and ping tests reported that I had incredibly high ping and jitter. I checked my internet usage over the past week, and I used up 70GB of bandwidth in less than 7 days. I downloaded a network monitor and kept closing applications until I found the culprit: Pando Media Booster. I am Canadian and have a 95GB cap each month. This little application will have cost me upwards of $30. That's enough for 3 months of LOTRO. That's 3 months Turbine won't be seeing. I am handing this out as a warning to others. Uninstall Pando Media Booster right away. To Turbine: purge this application from the download manager release. You've lost me as a customer...but who knows how many others you're going to lose because of this. This application is effectively malware.

[Clever Pun]

Is this a recent addition to their downloader? I haven't played LoTRO for nearly a year.

[TheExodu5]

Is this a recent addition to their downloader? I haven't played LoTRO for nearly a year.

I believe so. Never had this issue with the game last year.

Thankfully, my credit card information was out of date on their site and my account was suspended...that means at least I didn't pay for the month of play.

[Wallach]

Yeah, this stupid fucking program is exactly why I immediately canceled and uninstalled my "return to LotRO" trial crap they sent me recently.

You know how I found out about it? Playing TF2 and having pings of 300 when I normally have pings around 20. Opened my task manager to see if anything I didn't recognize was giving my network the business and sure enough, there it was.

That was probably two days after I'd downloaded and installed the LotRO client. It would have just kept on going and going and going, ruining my online experience even in the game it came packaged with, nevermind every other online game had I not uninstalled the fucker.

After I realized where it came from, I immediately uninstalled LotRO as well and sent an e-mail thanking them for such a powerful incentive not to return to LotRO regardless of how much free experience my character was getting.

[JWong]

I'm glad I never continued playing LotRO beyond my free PAX game month.

So this thing is running in the background regardless if you're playing or not?

[ag-my001]

It always seems to be people that use Turbine Download Manager that have problems when new books or patches come out. I don't, though I've been noticing some latency issues lately. Is this program located in the LotRO directory?

[Houston3000]

Wow, I reinstalled and played LotRO a couple of months ago. Is this very recent? I need to check my PC when I get home.

[GDGF]

I don't seem to have it, but I haven't logged on for about three weeks.

I wan't to play, but I don't want this crap. I'll just wait it out.

[ag-my001]

Found a post in the Tech Support Forums from a Turbine rep dated Sep. 9th, 2009:

The downloaded installation here uses "Pando Media Booster" to download the installation files for installing the game. The link below gives further details and answers many frequently asked questions regarding it: http://pandonetworks.com/pando-media...er-support-faq Some common items are below: 1. Pando Media Booster downloads the files via the file "PMB.exe" and this file would need to be allowed through your firewall to both connect outbound and accept incoming connections. 2. It has a built-in connection tester, you can open Pando Media Booster via its icon in the Control Panel and click on: Advanced Connection Settings -> Test My Connection 3. If you are using any forms of "Download Accellerator" software disable these while Pando is downloading. 4. Once the download has completed successfully and the game is installed, you can either disable** or uninstall "Pando Media Booster" (via the "Add or Remove Programs" (XP) or "Uninstall a Program" (Vista) control panel option). The downloaded game install files can be stored for later use if needed in a reinstallation. **Pando will, once the download completes, and unless otherwise directed by the user, continue to "seed" the files out which can use bandwidth. If you'd like to disable Pando (to prevent this) rather than remove it entirely this can be done from its Control panel option (Details here by scrolling down to "How do I control Pando Media Booster's options?") If you have any questions or need any assistance with the download installation or the installation itself contact Technical Support here.

Click here to get the forum post for the links in the original.

[Wallach]

It always seems to be people that use Turbine Download Manager that have problems when new books or patches come out. I don't, though I've been noticing some latency issues lately. Is this program located in the LotRO directory?

No, it is installed separately.

I know a couple other games use this Pando crap to deliver content, but maybe a heads up that it would use as much of my damn bandwidth as it could get it's hands on full-time until I slapped it off my HDD would have been nice.

[Vorador]

Way to shit on your own userbase to save some money on bandwidth.

[Chrange]

I've never really liked the P2P stuff for patches in any MMOs, especially the ones raking in millions like WoW.

We're paying you $10-15 a month, serve the fucking patches yourselves.

[GDGF]

Oh shit I found it.

I uninstalled it anyway.

[panda21]

wow that is incredibly underhanded. why don't they just run jobs on your CPU as well and sell it as cloud processing, maybe some of your hard drive space while they are at it :lol

[Grayman]

I saw that DDO installed this on me. I managed to get it removed without it ever doing anything. Shitty practice though, installing a game should not be installing anything that runs on startup. Being that it is not invasive drm it just means that turbine do stupid things to their customers.

[CTLance]

That's kind of shitty. Unless this was mentioned in big red letters somewhere it's downright underhanded.

What a silly way to squander customer appreciation/trust.

[Borgnine]

Been a player for 3 years, uninstalled TDM the second it was released, haven't looked back.

[Alex]

I've never really liked the P2P stuff for patches in any MMOs, especially the ones raking in millions like WoW. We're paying you $10-15 a month, serve the fucking patches yourselves.

I think for WoW it's less about saving money and more about avoiding the impossible patch day load. It's bonkers enough as is without worrying about downloading the actual patch, and a lot of the patch data is pre-loaded in the prior weeks anyway

That said, i also do hate it, and usually just use the third party sources. Well, i did when I played

[Lkr]

My brother has it, but I haven't noticed any network slowdowns. I'll look into it and remove it regardless right now. Thanks for the tip OP

[Giolon]

*yawn* This thing's been around for near six months. Why you wouldn't delete the downloader after you finished downloading the installation is beyond me.

Way to overreact about nothing. What do you do about WoW's BitTorrent based patching that does essentially the same thing? It's even configured by default to continue running even after WoW's closed and/or patching has finished. :-p

[rhfb]

I've never really liked the P2P stuff for patches in any MMOs, especially the ones raking in millions like WoW. We're paying you $10-15 a month, serve the fucking patches yourselves.

Except for the fact that they ARE serving the patches themselves, and distributing via torrents is faster than having servers everyone is hitting. It isn't like you are forced to download via torrents. There are plenty of sites out there where you can download whatever WoW patch you want. Anyone who shits on torrent distribution for stuff like has either a) not setup the client correctly to ensure maximum speeds or b) never used it in the first place and assuming everything that has to do with torrents is related to piracy.

[Wallach]

*yawn* This thing's been around for near six months. Why you wouldn't delete the downloader after you finished downloading the installation is beyond me. Way to overreact about nothing. What do you do about WoW's BitTorrent based patching that does essentially the same thing? It's even configured by default to continue running even after WoW's closed and/or patching has finished. :-p

WoW's BitTorrent-based patcher does not operate in a similar manner. Their pre-patch system is set to default to throttle it's own network utilization to other programs - you have to manually turn off throttling. Furthermore, it shuts itself off once a patch pre-load period has stopped and the patch has hit "live" status - it doesn't continue to use the client as a seeder at that point. When the patch is live and required to access non-test servers only clients that are actively downloading the patch are used as seeds and that ceases as soon as the user closes the patch window.

[Orbitcube]

Way to overreact about nothing. What do you do about WoW's BitTorrent based patching that does essentially the same thing? It's even configured by default to continue running even after WoW's closed and/or patching has finished. :-p

No it's not. The only part of the WoW patcher that downloads in the background is when you're pre-loading patches. It never downloads or uploads ANYTHING after you've finished downloading the patch. Not to mention that there's even an option to completely disable P2P and only download from Blizzard's HTTP server.

Also, this sort of thing if the easiest way to get patches out to most of the game's population quickly. Let's use WoW for an example, as everyone else has. It's patch day and millions of people want to play but they get prompted for a patch. The Blizzard downloader opens and they all download from Blizzard servers with no P2P. That's a few million people on 2 different server farms (US and EU). That's not good for the servers and people's download speeds. Yes, there are patch mirrors, but relatively few know about them. Enable P2P for all of them and they download things much faster and save Blizzard lots and lots of bandwidth (which costs money), sharing of it across all the downloaders.

And anyway, my ISP doesn't count Uploads towards my cap, so this doesn't really hurt me in any way.

EDIT: As an aside, and more related topic. I think Turbine saw Blizzard's system for distributing patches and tried to copy it to save themselves some server costs, but used a really ineffective method. But you also have to think about LOTRO's smaller playerbase, and if someone wanted to download a patch but no one else was also downloading it to upload the data to them they'd be screwed. You can see why they made the decision to keep it seeding after patching has been finished but obviously they pissed people off.

[Giolon]

WoW's BitTorrent-based patcher does not operate in a similar manner. Their pre-patch system is set to default to throttle it's own network utilization to other programs - you have to manually turn off throttling. Furthermore, it shuts itself off once a patch pre-load period has stopped and the patch has hit "live" status - it doesn't continue to use the client as a seeder at that point. When the patch is live and required to access non-test servers only clients that are actively downloading the patch are used as seeds and that ceases as soon as the user closes the patch window.

The last time I installed WoW from scratch (~6 months ago) the default was for it to continue running the Blizzard Downloader (not to be confused with the Blizzard Updater) even while WoW was no longer running. Closing the Updater after finishing did not stop the Downloader. I don't remember the setting for throttling bandwidth usage other than that P2P was enabled by default.

The point is - Blizzard utilizes the same methods of continuing to use your upload bandwidth without explicit permission even while the game is not running. This is nothing new to MMOs, and Blizzard's been doing it far longer than LOTRO. Turbine's got a whole forum post stickied and linked to from their own FAQs about PMB and whether or not it's needed once the installer download is complete (it's not). ag-my001 was kind enough to provide some of the contents of that post. ThExodu5 didn't even seem to try to do any research or information gathering before simply flying off the handle.

I'll say that the PMB installation's default to run at computer start up is dubious at best, but I can't believe anyone could honestly call it malicious.

[Orbitcube]

The last time I installed WoW from scratch (~6 months ago) the default was for it to continue running the Blizzard Downloader (not to be confused with the Blizzard Updater) even while WoW was no longer running. Closing the Updater after finishing did not stop the Downloader. I don't remember the setting for throttling bandwidth usage other than that P2P was enabled by default. The point is - Blizzard utilizes the same methods of continuing to use your upload bandwidth without explicit permission even while the game is not running. This is nothing new to MMOs, and Blizzard's been doing it far longer than LOTRO. Turbine's got a whole forum post stickied and linked to from their own FAQs about PMB and whether or not it's needed once the installer download is complete (it's not). ag-my001 was kind enough to provide some of the contents of that post. ThExodu5 didn't even seem to try to do any research or information gathering before simply flying off the handle.

Blizzard Updater and Blizzard Downloader are different terms for the same thing, people just can't remember the real name of it. You could also call the Updater the thing that actually applies the patch to the game.

I can never recall a time when the Downloader ever seeded in the background. Blizzard mentions in their Downloader FAQ that it will never seed after the all necessary files have been downloaded. So you're incorrect.

How does the Blizzard Downloader work? The Blizzard Downloader allows users to download large files using a peer-to-peer protocol. Each person downloading the file will offer a portion of their upload bandwidth to allow other users to download the same file. By using the upload bandwidth only, the individual user will not see a decrease in their download speed - in fact, the more users there are downloading the file, the faster everyone's individual download speed will be. The Blizzard Downloader is only active when you are downloading files, and only accesses files associated with the data that you are downloading. Blizzard will not access or upload any other files, or obtain any personal information about you as a result of this activity.

[Giolon]

So, just to verify, I just ran the current LOTRO installer on my personal laptop. The very first line of text on the very first screen of it says:

The LOTR Online Downloader is powered by Pando Media Booster.

The textbox directly below it says (emphasis mine):

This Downloader uses Pando Media Booster to download The Lord of the Rings Online™: Siege of Mirkwood™. When you use this Downloader you install Pando Media Booster and participate in a secure, closed peer-to-peer network where you receive pieces of the download package from a Content Delivery Network (CDN) as well as other active users (peers). In addition you send pieces of the download package installer to other peers participating in the secure peer-to-peer network. No other files can be shared on your computer via Pando media Booster and your computer is enver used as a relay nor for transient storage of content you did not wish to download.

There's a little bit more, but, the OP cannot claim that he was not informed that Pando Media Booster would be installed, nor that he had no idea it would use his upload bandwidth.

[Giolon]

Blizzard Updater and Blizzard Downloader are different terms for the same thing, people just can't remember the real name of it. You could also call the Updater the thing that actually applies the patch to the game. I can never recall a time when the Downloader ever seeded in the background. Blizzard mentions in their Downloader FAQ that it will never seed after the all necessary files have been downloaded. So you're incorrect.

I am correct. I never said that it continues to seed after download is finished. I said that its default setting is to continue seeding, even after WoW has been closed. Check out the options (they're in the launcher) and you'll see for yourself.

And the Downloader and the Updater are most certainly not the same. Check out your Public\Documents\World of Warcraft folder (on Vista/Win 7). You'll find separate Downloader and Updater files.

[Orbitcube]

So, just to verify, I just ran the LOTRO installer on my personal laptop. The very first line of text on the very first screen of it says: The LOTR Online Downloader is powered by Pando Media Booster. The textbox directly below it says (emphasis mine): There's a little bit more, but, the OP cannot claim that he was not informed that Pando Media Booster would be installed, nor that he had no idea it would use his upload bandwidth.

The OP wasn't angry (much) at the fact that it was actually uploading as it is par for the course with MMO patch downloaders. He seemed more angry at the fact that it was continuing to seed after the program after all patch files have been downloaded. I can understand Turbine's justification behind that, but it is a bit of bad practice to not warn people before hand that PMB continues to seed after downloading patch files.

EDIT: Want me to pull up a quote?

Way to overreact about nothing. What do you do about WoW's BitTorrent based patching that does essentially the same thing? It's even configured by default to continue running even after WoW's closed and/or patching has finished. :-p

"and/or" is a bit different than just saying it straight out, true, but you did mention that. I also don't get what you mean about it running after WoW's closed. Using default settings I've never seen the Blizzard Downloader run after playing WoW. It only does that when pre-loading patch files, which is completely optional.

I also suggest opening the Blizzard Updater application because if you did you'd find that you can't run it because it requires a patch file to run, which is what I said it does which applies the patches to the game files. I did say that they were interchangable terms, but I was referring to the terms people use for the Downloader.

[Wallach]

So, just to verify, I just ran the LOTRO installer on my personal laptop. The very first line of text on the very first screen of it says: The LOTR Online Downloader is powered by Pando Media Booster. The textbox directly below it says (emphasis mine): There's a little bit more, but, the OP cannot claim that he was not informed that Pando Media Booster would be installed, nor that he had no idea it would use his upload bandwidth.

Right, I am with you on that.

My personal beef here is that once I am NOT a part of that download anymore, by default it continues to use me as essentially a permanent seed for that file until I find it and smack it. That is a really terrible choice, and one that is really not very visible to the end user until they realize their bandwidth is being choked (because this thing also does not seem to throttle whatsoever by default).

Visibility is a big factor as far as reception goes to the end user. Of course they're going to be pissed off when they discover basically every default setting the program has is done at their expense rather than to their benefit when very little is communicated to them during the install process.

Especially with bandwidth caps from ISPs becoming more and more common, I don't blame people for being upset in a circumstance like this.

[HarryDemeanor]

I had the same problem with the Dungeons and Dragons client that installed this onto my system. Liked DDO for about an hour then uninstalled it as I was quickly bored. Started noticing a slow down in connection and found out it was the Pando Media Booster.

I really hate that thing.

[Giolon]

EDIT: Want me to pull up a quote? "and/or" is a bit different than just saying it straight out, true, but you did mention that. I also don't get what you mean about it running after WoW's closed. Using default settings I've never seen the Blizzard Downloader run after playing WoW. It only does that when pre-loading patch files, which is completely optional. I also suggest opening the Blizzard Updater application because if you did you'd find that you can't run it because it requires a patch file to run, which is what I said it does which applies the patches to the game files. I did say that they were interchangable terms, but I was referring to the terms people use for the Downloader.

I misspoke at that one comment. I retract that part (no point in editing it out). You're right on that.

Now, go open up the WoW Launcher, Hit Options, then hit Downloader Preferences. By default the "Download after exiting World of Warcraft box" is checked - this is what allows and causes the downloader to continue to download (and seed) patch files for the next patch even after you close WoW. If "Download while playing World of Warcraft" is not also checked, it will only even start downloading after you close WoW (great for those who's bandwidth is hampered by even the throttled downloading).

You can't run the Updater without a file, but you can run the individual downloader files at will. Check out that directory I mentioned previously to try them out.

I'm with anyone saying that the PMB in Turbine's downloaders could be better configured by default to be more consumer friendly, but it's hardly worth screaming "Fuck You, Evil Corporations!" about. You should be paying close attention to anything you download and run from the internet - regardless of who put it out.

[Chrange]

Except for the fact that they ARE serving the patches themselves, and distributing via torrents is faster than having servers everyone is hitting. It isn't like you are forced to download via torrents. There are plenty of sites out there where you can download whatever WoW patch you want. Anyone who shits on torrent distribution for stuff like has either a) not setup the client correctly to ensure maximum speeds or b) never used it in the first place and assuming everything that has to do with torrents is related to piracy.

Why would I go to some other site, especially a place like FilePlanet where I'd have to pay an additional fee just to have 'when I want it' access to the file that I'm paying someone else for in the first place?

I used Utorrent all the time back when I played WoW, and never had speed issues with it. Bliztorrent, on the other hand, would CONSTANTLY report I had an outdated driver (I didn't) and throttle back speed as a result. I always had to go somewhere else to get the patches if I wanted them that day.

There's no excuse for companies to do it this way now, when they used to be able to serve up patches just fine. Oh there's more players downloading now? Tough shit - there's also more players PAYING then, and paying MORE. Set up more servers. Get more bandwidth - whatever, just make it work and stop using my bandwidth.

[panda21]

So, just to verify, I just ran the current LOTRO installer on my personal laptop. The very first line of text on the very first screen of it says: The LOTR Online Downloader is powered by Pando Media Booster. The textbox directly below it says (emphasis mine): There's a little bit more, but, the OP cannot claim that he was not informed that Pando Media Booster would be installed, nor that he had no idea it would use his upload bandwidth.

thats not really the problem though, seeding while you run the installer is fair enough, but installing it to run at startup and use 100% of your upload bandwidth even when you aren't playing the game, without explicitly telling you this is very shady indeed. from what you bolded i think any reasonable person would assume it was just going to seed while you download like every other P2P patch or update software does, not that it would continue to do so indefinitely to the detriment of your connection, even while playing the game you installed!

just because you don't have a bandwidth cap doesnt mean its not going to fuck over other people in countries where there is little choice.

[Zzoram]

Does Star Trek Online do this? That's the only MMO I have installed and I don't want it eating up bandwidth because I am also Canadian with a bandwidth cap.

[bloodydrake]

Great tip OP thanks for pointing that out
Ignoring the troll in this thread,
Its easy to see how this could be installed and running on Hundreds of thousands of Computers without the primary owner of the Internet access knowing about it.
(how many kids that don't pay the bills have downloaded the free trial on the family computer..seriously)

Its shady business and should be illegal.

[Giolon]

thats not really the problem though, seeding while you run the installer is fair enough, but installing it to run at startup and use 100% of your upload bandwidth even when you aren't playing the game, without explicitly telling you this is very shady indeed. from what you bolded i think any reasonable person would assume it was just going to seed while you download like every other P2P patch or update software does, not that it would continue to do so indefinitely to the detriment of your connection, even while playing the game you installed!

I think I can agree with you on all those points. I still don't see it as anything to get panties in a bunch over.

just because you don't have a bandwidth cap doesnt mean its not going to fuck over other people in countries where there is little choice.

For the record, I do have a bandwidth cap. T.T

[panda21]

I think I can agree with you on all those points. I still don't see it as anything to get panties in a bunch over. For the record, I do have a bandwidth cap. T.T

ok so how about i install something to upload nonstop from your computer without telling you that will eat up your entire months bandwidth in a week? cos thats not anything to get your panties in a bunch over so you should be totally cool with it.

[bengraven]

This could explain my heavy ping losses and disconnects for the last 3 months.

If so, I will be pissed, BUT excited to have found the issue.

[Giolon]

ok so how about i install something to upload nonstop from your computer without telling you that will eat up your entire months bandwidth in a week? cos thats not anything to get your panties in a bunch over so you should be totally cool with it.

If you give me something to install, and I did so freely without checking into anything about it, reading any of the information published in the application's launcher or paying attention to what it's doing, it'd be entirely my fault - not yours.

The LOTRO downloader says exactly what it's going to do: use Pando Media Booster to download and upload installer files. Fantastic! I don't feel they're obligated to say when that's going to happen (i.e. always). The OP went under the false assumption that it would stop when he finished downloading/installing. It didn't. Lesson learned.

Whenever I decide to install anything I assume it's going to try do everything it can to attach itself to start up and run at all times and consume as many resources as possible - so I always check. (One nice thing about Vista was that it would trap anything trying to install itself to run at system startup and allow you to block it. Win 7 doesn't feature that anymore :( ).

As I said before, everyone should be vigilant about what they install and allow to run on their computers - no matter who or where it came from. Start taking some responsibility for your own actions and stop expecting others to be looking out for your own welfare.

Edit: I'm pretty much done here. In addition to everything else I've posted, I'll say I agree with the OP's sentiment that Pando Media Booster should be uninstalled as soon as you're done downloading the installer files. The game doesn't need it to be present. It's only used to retrieve the installer files. There's simply no reason to leave it lying around whether it's running or not.

[TheExodu5]

Everyone knows that no-one reads the ToS when installing applications on a PC. Furthermore, installing an application that can completely cripple an internet connection and cost the user real money in bandwidth charges is extremely immoral practice, in the name of saving Turbine bandwidth charges.

[Giolon]

Everyone knows that no-one reads the ToS when installing applications on a PC. Furthermore, installing an application that can completely cripple an internet connection and cost the user real money in bandwidth charges is extremely immoral practice, in the name of saving Turbine bandwidth charges.

it's not even the ToS you have to read - there's just a short text box. It's right there sitting in front of your face on the fucking first installer screen:

[IMG]http://i50.************/a14w15.jpg[/IMG]

You can't even try to claim they hid it from you. It even says directly above that as the first line of text that it's installing Pando Media Booster.

See all my comments about taking responsibility for what you install on your own computer.

[Lafiel]

I think it's a bit of a over-reaction. Since, don't other MMOs like eve online use that very same program? although, i admit, i would've being even more pissed, if that kind of situation happened on my internet connection.:lol
I think the last time i installed LOTRO, i uninstalled that program, right away.

[DarkJC]

it's not even the ToS you have to read - there's just a short text box. It's right there sitting in front of your face on the fucking first installer screen: [IMG]http://i50.************/a14w15.jpg[/IMG] You can't even try to claim they hid it from you. It even says directly above that as the first line of text that it's installing Pando Media Booster. See all my comments about taking responsibility for what you install on your own computer.

Honestly, who cares? I think everyone can agree that regardless of whether they're telling you they install it or not, this program is a shitty piece of software that really shouldn't be distributed with any online game. You shouldn't have to hunt for something on your system that is using 100% of your upload bandwidth, it should at the very least be in the system tray, not some nebulous process.

It serves for a terrible user experience, and sticking a bunch of text in a two rows tall box to explain its going to suck your bandwidth dry until you uninstall it and remain hidden while it does it doesn't excuse them. As someone living in Canada on the same ISP as the OP I'd say the rage is still very justified.

[vazel]

it's not even the ToS you have to read - there's just a short text box. It's right there sitting in front of your face on the fucking first installer screen: [IMG]http://i50.************/a14w15.jpg[/IMG] You can't even try to claim they hid it from you. It even says directly above that as the first line of text that it's installing Pando Media Booster. See all my comments about taking responsibility for what you install on your own computer.

Where does it say there it's gonna be uploading all the time?

[FoxSpirit]

Where does it say there it's gonna be uploading all the time?

**Pando will, once the download completes, and unless otherwise directed by the user, continue to "seed" the files out which can use bandwidth. If you'd like to disable Pando (to prevent this) rather than remove it entirely this can be done from its Control panel option (Details here by scrolling down to "How do I control Pando Media Booster's options?"

Well, but it's still bad, at least Blizzdownloader will stop once you close it. It's basically a bittorrent client that seems to autoload with LotRO.

[vazel]

I'll be sure to read all the text on installs then rather than just continually clicking next like everyone else. :\

I can't believe some of you are defending this it's sleazy.

[Revolutionary]

Where does it say there it's gonna be uploading all the time?

[img]http://i47.************/5jusub.jpg[/img]
It doesn't specifically say all the time but the wording allows for it, I suppose.

I'll be sure to read all the text on installs then rather than just continually clicking next like everyone else. :\ I can't believe some of you are defending this it's sleazy.

There's no doubt that it is sleazy, especially with the wording, but shouldn't you be reading everything you sign/agree to anyway?

[vazel]

Oh I see, you have to scroll down. :\

There's no doubt that it is sleazy, especially with the wording, but shouldn't you be reading everything you sign/agree to anyway?

Who ever reads ToS/EULAs? Literally what world are you people in?

[TheExodu5]

Well, but it's still bad, at least Blizzdownloader will stop once you close it. It's basically a bittorrent client that seems to autoload with LotRO.

That text is from their forums.

So all LOTRO users are expected to go to the Technical Support forums on the LOTRO site before even installing the game?

[Grayman]

[img]http://i47.************/5jusub.jpg[/img] It doesn't specifically say all the time but the wording allows for it, I suppose. There's no doubt that it is sleazy, especially with the wording, but shouldn't you be reading everything you sign/agree to anyway?

reading them would signify actual agreement.