[Lard]

Max Payne?

LA Noire is coming.

[Replicant]

I'm not saying that's bad in itself. Isn't that already done in all video games, though? The events dictate emotion, not the scenes. The event, "Aerith died!", moves certain people, but the scene itself is really poor. Since other games have more interesting gameplay systems, this seems to put Heavy Rain in the hole. That's its focus. Basically, how is this better than Silent Hill 3 or Gabriel Knight: Sins Of The Fathers? I really like both of those games and think a lot of their scenes are quite good, but if gameplay was severely limited, I might be less forgiving of their quirks.

Again, this is your problem: you judge a game that is not even out yet on the merit of your own expectations. The same way you judge the gameplay based on what others have said without even trying the demo a few weeks ago. Just sit down and stop acting like it'd be the end of the world if the game is not an Academy Award winner. The voice acting is not exactly top-notch but it's not a bottom of the barrel either. Go to Youtube and you'll find many games with even WORSE voice acting than this.

This game is interesting enough on its own. The combination of moody noir setting, characters with different backgrounds/motivation, unusual game mechanic may prove to be interesting for *some people*. If these people do not include you, then there are MANY other games coming out at the same time. Star Ocean: International, White Knight Chronicle, God of War 3, Final Fantasy XIII. Feel free to try any of those instead. Or if you don't have PS3, then go play ME2 or something else.

[GhaleonQ]

Again, this is your problem: you judge a game that is not even out yet on the merit of your own expectations. The same way you judge the gameplay based on what others have said without even trying the demo a few weeks ago. Just sit down and stop acting like it'd be the end of the world if the game is not an Academy Award winner. The voice acting is not exactly top-notch but it's not a bottom of the barrel either. Go to Youtube and you'll find many games with even WORSE voice acting than this. This game is interesting enough on its own. The combination of moody noir setting, characters with different backgrounds/motivation, unusual game mechanic may prove to be interesting for *some people*. If these people do not include you, then there are MANY other games coming out at the same time. Star Ocean: International, White Knight Chronicle, God of War 3, Final Fantasy XIII. Feel free to try any of those instead. Or if you don't have PS3, then go play ME2 or something else.

Huh? What did that have to do with my post? I think my explicit comparison to those games mean that I'm definitely not expecting anything more than competence. When Gabriel stands in the hounfour, I'm a bit nervous because death could come at any time. If I start clicking the look icon over everything, I'd rightly be killed soon as Gabriel spouts ridiculous descriptions of the walls. Hell, the labyrinth in King's Quest VI did the same, and that's not even a thriller! The games don't allow me to kill the scenes. Silent Hill 3's Borely Mansion is paced beautifully, because you can laugh off the scares at your own pace until death really comes for you. This scene (could Vinterbird confirm?) seems like it will be the most brutal, but the game design sapped the emotion from it for reasons that I explained (only 1 of which was the voice-acting [which seems far too important to dismiss, anyway]).

And this game is for me! I've already said that aspects of the gameplay that Heavy Rain borrows will be the future of narrative art games. That's why I'm playing this. It just doesn't seem done well.

Edit:

Meh, he doesn't even talk about this game at this point. It's all about "Me, me, me me, how can this game please ME?" So what's your point?

*blank stare*

[iratA]

Nice review Sam and an impressive 9 to boot. Oh and thanks for taking the time to make it spoiler free, I wish more people would do this for all the peeps.

[Replicant]

And this game is for me! I've already said that aspects of the gameplay that Heavy Rain borrows will be the future of narrative art games. That's why I'm playing this. It just doesn't seem done well.

For all of your complaints, you still haven't even played the full game yet. Do you even understand why people are annoyed by your constant bitching?

And here I am playing Star Ocean 4 and in comparison to HR demo, not only the voice acting is better in HR demo, I actually played something in that demo in comparison to watching cutscenes during the first 10 or so minutes of Star Ocean 4. Even the graphics are far more impressive in the HR demo.

[Rez]

replicant, you're not even responding to his post at this point. christ.

[McBradders]

Hold three buttons to squeeze past a dumpster... really? Really?

smh

Everything else is good to great (bar the controls which, I feel are simply obnoxious) but certainly not a day 1 or urgent purchase. Kudos to Sony for pumping so much cash in to a non-surefire blockbuster though. Very brave.

[Replicant]

replicant, you're not even responding to his post at this point. christ.

Meh, he doesn't even talk about this game at this point. It's all about "Me, me, me me, how can this game please ME?" So what's your point?

[Vinterbird]

Thanks for actually responding. I really do appreciate it. Interesting. I'll shut up on that front. How many interstitial animations are there? He should have some kind of twitch, but it looked like there wasn't anything we didn't see in the demo. Does a person rub his hands, roll his head around the back of his shoulders, nod his head, or other visual acting that makes up for the inexpressiveness of the faces (which applies to nearly all video games, so that's not a criticism of Heavy Rain)? That seems VERY important for setting the emotional tone instead of having stilted, vocalized thoughts. What about in cutscenes? I say that because, unless Cage was more creative, pacing's going to be off. That scene had no drama to it. The guy entered, had a staid reaction to disfigurement, stood there like a statue while "thinking" somewhat stilted dialogue (like bad adventure game script instead of crisp dialogue about his mental state), and then strolled around the room with loud music behind him (which you said changes or is better used elsewhere). Now, like I said, some of this is common to all games. Since its gameplay didn't innovate, the game seems to let the player cycle through his options. Since that robs the scene of emotion, interstitial animation would give visual cues that SOMETHING BAD IS GOING TO HAPPEN OH GOD. Right?

(I'll try the best I can to respond, but I'm not a native English speaker, or writer, so if there is something I missed, or didn't elaborate on enough, then just ask for details)

The body animations and reactions differ from scene to scene. Some scenes has it a lot, especially towards the last few hours where they make it seem insanely natural and believeable due to its very low key nature. It's not overblown and theatrical in its expressiveness. There are some more natural expressions during the game, but some of them is up to the player to initiate. You can lean up against a wall, sit down next to someone and so on. And that will trigger those more natural twitches, head rolling and more human movements.

But if you just stand still, you won't see it and it is very much possible to totally break immersion if you don't think "If I was listening to this guy, I would lean against the back of this chair, because I wouldn't be standing around looking like an idiot".

If that line of thinking isn't happening, then you will end up with stupid looking situations that will break the flow of the game, and the cinematic presentation instead of reinforcing it.

Your comment about character standing still and throwing some hints at the player (which is honestly my biggest problem with the game, the "mental state and thoughts" of the character is basicly a hint system most of the time. Sometimes it is used more intelligently, but not as much as I would like it) is very much true, and there is some situations where this happens.

But personally, I wasn't thinking about that, because I myself was in a deep state of panic. Which I think is the intention of the game, the panic and fear of doing what is being asked of you is reflected in the way you yourself is acting, and feeling while controlling the character. But of course, that is a personal thing, and if you aren't feeling like investing yourself that much into the theme and experience it will seem a bit dull and maybe stupid.

A bit of spoiler, if you haven't watched the clip in question:

Personally I was debating with myself for a good two minutes, if I should do it and if there was any possible way of cheating. Ultimately I decided to go through with it (you can leave at any time if you want to), and found a meat cleaver in the kitchen. And again, the emotional gravitas comes from the player himself, as much as from what Ethan does during the chop. I had a very bad feeling doing it, and it really hit home how attached I actually was to the character, something I hadn't felt like I was untill that moment. Which also reflected onto how I would play for the rest of the game, as to how far I would actually go and do what I was being asked to do.

The "Something bad is going to happen" part you mentioned, mostly springs from the fact that you know beforehand that something utterly horrible is going to happen when you enter. Again, this is part of the plot, and if you intend on playing it, I really don't want to move too deeply into that. But there was some more emotional "oh fuck, why the hell am I doing this" thinking from Ethans part, before entering the room

Music vise, the game uses the music fairly good during most of the dramatic scenes, and it comes across as especially amazing during some intense parts, where it really clicks into the visual presentation. In regards to the voice acting, I felt that it was mostly the kids an their performance that was a problem to me.

But since I'm not a native English speaker, many other characters could very well sound totally off, if you have a deeper understanding of the articulation of the language, and have used it all your life. But in general, I felt the voice acting was good, with a few misses (there's especially one during a dramatic scene that had me looking wierdly at my tv because it sounded like it was delivered in a way that really didn't fit the situation).

[Chrange]

And then all the "omg realistic game" is thrown out of the window when the FBI agent starts wearing his cyber glasses.

I have to admit that I snickered a bit when he 'memorized' a footprint and tire track. Probably not admissable in court.

[GhaleonQ]

A+ post

1. I should say that I'm well aware that playing and watching the game are different experiences, for the record.

2. I'll be playing in French with English subtitles, but the translation has elemetary sentence structure. I know some French. If you're playing in that language, how does it sound? In English, the vocabulary is simple (that's okay) and the syntax and rhythm are too basic. I assume that the vocabulary is similarly basic in French, but does the sentence structure have a bit more force to it? What's a book or television show that would compare?

3. Even if he didn't include animations when stationary, I'm pleased that some situations include naturalistic movement.

4. Still, it sounds like the game relies more on the plot (___ happened, and my abstract remembrance of that event makes me feel ___) than on meticulously planned scenes. That's problematic, but my thoughts about Cage-the-director are out there.

Other than that, you answered my questions. You even set your expectations for what the game should be. Since English isn't your language, I appreciate the thoughtful post even more. Please stick around when all of us get it.

[SolidSnakex]

The ARI glasses are really no different than what you see in current crime shows where they have devices that greatly speed up a process that will take weeks or months in the real world to accomplish.

[Vinterbird]

1. I should say that I'm well aware that playing and watching the game are different experiences, for the record. 2. I'll be playing in French with English subtitles, but the translation has elemetary sentence structure. I know some French. If you're playing in that language, how does it sound? In English, the vocabulary is simple (that's okay) and the syntax and rhythm are too basic. I assume that the vocabulary is similarly basic in French, but does the sentence structure have a bit more force to it? What's a book or television show that would compare? 3. Even if he didn't include animations when stationary, I'm pleased that some situations include naturalistic movement. 4. Still, it sounds like the game relies more on the plot (___ happened, and my abstract remembrance of that event makes me feel ___) than on meticulously planned scenes. That's problematic, but my thoughts about Cage-the-director are out there. Other than that, you answered my questions. You even set your expectations for what the game should be. Since English isn't your language, I appreciate the thoughtful post even more. Please stick around when all of us get it.

2. I'm starting a new story today in French, so I'll let you know in a few hours. I would say the game feels like something between Dexter (the tv show) and a Dan Brown novel.

With a pace that ramps up fairly quickly and gives the player a true sense of urgency due to it playing out in the course of five days, where you slowly but surely are pieceing together parts of the puzzle as the detectives, meanwhile experingcing Ethan going in a downwards spiral of depression, fear and doubts of himself as a father and saviour.

4. The game takes some moments where it goes deeper into the characters and their inter-personal relationship, especially during the first hours of the game, where it is in absolutely no rush to kick off the story, and instead forcing the player to be the character they are in control of, and not run around saving the world. Some of that disappears midway through, due to the story wanting to move towards the Origami origins and solving the case, but returns to it during the last three hours.

Of course, this is what I've experienced. My editor had a totally different experience and for the last half of the game, he saw an entirely different outcome then I did. Where none of my investigation or scenes where taking place, because he had gone a completely different way in terms of how he wante to proceed with the characters.

[Chrange]

The ARI glasses are really no different than what you see in current crime shows where they have devices that greatly speed up a process that will take weeks or months in the real world to accomplish.

*shrug* Instead of 'memorizing' things they could have just had him flag it and think to himself 'the crime scene guys will cast this so I can compare it to other tracks later' or something.

[mescalineeyes]

2. I'll be playing in French with English subtitles, but the translation has elemetary sentence structure. I know some French. If you're playing in that language, how does it sound? In English, the vocabulary is simple (that's okay) and the syntax and rhythm are too basic. I assume that the vocabulary is similarly basic in French, but does the sentence structure have a bit more force to it? What's a book or television show that would compare?

why do you want to play it in french? the game was written and recorded in english.

[Tricky I Shadow]

Not sure if anyone posted this (HUGE SPOILERS) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9K_T_klwRQ It's the scene with Ethan cutting his finger off I don't think I've ever seen something in a game that has had me cringe or feel sorry for a character more than that one in that video. That is POWERFUL.

Amazing video! If I had a PS3 this would so be mine!

[xbhaskarx]

The QTE nonsense is really turning me off this game fast. They should have a non-real-time control setup for those of us who want to experience this "game" in an even more laid-back manner. I don't like this middle ground, it's like playing a frustrating game while watching a frustrating movie.

[KAOz]

why do you want to play it in french? the game was written and recorded in english.

Because David Cage is french, and his script might feel more natural in his mother-tounge? And also because it was recorded in french too? And shitloads of other languages. :)

[SolidSnakex]

*shrug* Instead of 'memorizing' things they could have just had him flag it and think to himself 'the crime scene guys will cast this so I can compare it to other tracks later' or something.

And then the player wouldn't be getting much feedback for what they're doing.

[TommyTomsten]

The QTE nonsense is really turning me off this game fast. They should have a non-real-time control setup for those of us who want to experience this "game" in an even more laid-back manner. I don't like this middle ground, it's like playing a frustrating game while watching a frustrating movie.

What exactly did you expect from a next gen Point&Click Adventure? Uncharted?

[Chrange]

And then the player wouldn't be getting much feedback for what they're doing.

Honestly it's as much freaking 'feedback' as memorizing a footprint lol. Either way it's taking out the busywork, but at least flagging it for someone else to do is less of a 'gamey' thing than memorizing the impression of the shoe.

[mescalineeyes]

Because David Cage is french, and his script might feel more natural in his mother-tounge? And also because it was recorded in french too? And shitloads of other languages. :)

the script was written in english first.

every other language is a translation. David Cage wrote the script in english, that's why it's so god-damn awkward 90% of the time.

[BeeDog]

Honestly it's as much freaking 'feedback' as memorizing a footprint lol. Either way it's taking out the busywork, but at least flagging it for someone else to do is less of a 'gamey' thing than memorizing the impression of the shoe.

I haven't played the demo since it was released, but can't "memorize" here mean that the ARI glasses stores the pattern/information? The discussion you guys seem to partake in sounds like the agent will memorize the stuff himself.

(it's early here, don't kill me if I misunderstood something :lol )

[Loudninja]

I haven't played the demo since it was released, but can't "memorize" here mean that the ARI glasses stores the pattern/information? The discussion you guys seem to partake in sounds like the agent will memorize the stuff himself. (it's early here, don't kill me if I misunderstood something :lol )

Yeah the glasses seems to store the info.

[SolidSnakex]

I haven't played the demo since it was released, but can't "memorize" here mean that the ARI glasses stores the pattern/information? The discussion you guys seem to partake in sounds like the agent will memorize the stuff himself.

I'm pretty sure that's what ARI does. It scans the the prints and stores the data.

[KAOz]

the script was written in english first. every other language is a translation. David Cage wrote the script in english, that's why it's so god-damn awkward 90% of the time.

I know. But it wouldn't surprise me if he had a hand in the translation to french, and changed some stuff around (as translations always do). Making it less awkward.

[RedRedSuit]

why do you want to play it in french? the game was written and recorded in english.

I found the voice acting less distractingly bad in the demo by doing that. I love the concept of this game, and most everything in the demo was executed very well, but the English VA was making me upset.

[mescalineeyes]

I know. But it wouldn't surprise me if he had a hand in the translation to french, and changed some stuff around (as translations always do). Making it less awkward.

well to be perfectly fair, the german translation is better than the english original, but it's a bit annoying that unlike in, say, Mass Effect 2, the lip sync does not match up with the dubbing.
my french is not good enough to judge Heavy Rain's french voice over, I was merely saying that english IS the original version of the game.

[mescalineeyes]

I found the voice acting less distractingly bad in the demo by doing that. I love the concept of this game, and most everything in the demo was executed very well, but the English VA was making me upset.

the saddest part is, that Quantic themselves are convinced that the (voice)acting in this game is good.

[Bliddo]

Not sure if anyone posted this (HUGE SPOILERS) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9K_T_klwRQ It's the scene with Ethan cutting his finger off I don't think I've ever seen something in a game that has had me cringe or feel sorry for a character more than that one in that video. That is POWERFUL.

That's a great scene, but damn... those controls...
And the character walks normally, with an emotionless face, like nothing's going on.

[RedRedSuit]

the saddest part is, that Quantic themselves are convinced that the (voice)acting in this game is good.

Someone from QD actually said that?

Hmm. That is unfortunate.

[Chrange]

I haven't played the demo since it was released, but can't "memorize" here mean that the ARI glasses stores the pattern/information? The discussion you guys seem to partake in sounds like the agent will memorize the stuff himself. (it's early here, don't kill me if I misunderstood something :lol )

You'd think it would simply say "print stored" or something, not "memorized" lol - machines don't memorize things.

[Son of Godzilla]

The ARI glasses are really no different than what you see in current crime shows where they have devices that greatly speed up a process that will take weeks or months in the real world to accomplish.

Yea, it's not really a good idea to set the bar under the dirt just to be able to claim success. You are wrong anyway, magicking up some fancy tech gizmo is much better than how standard procedurals address reality.

[BeeDog]

You'd think it would simply say "print stored" or something, not "memorized" lol - machines don't memorize things.

Well, blame the French script writers for that, I guess. Either way, it's really trivial, and if people are going to get hung up on (small) stuff like that, then there's probably no point in even playing this game. :p

[xbhaskarx]

What exactly did you expect from a next gen Point&Click Adventure? Uncharted?

That's the thing, I didn't know what to expect, and I feel like I want to be either more involved (Uncharted) or less involved (a movie). I'm not liking this middle ground.

And I don't like having to press six different buttons to walk up a hill... Maybe this game isn't for me.

[dallow_bg]

Well, blame the French script writers for that, I guess. Either way, it's really trivial, and if people are going to get hung up on (small) stuff like that, then there's probably no point in even playing this game. :p

Yeah, the ARI glasses are easily forgivable given the timeframe the events need to pass and be resolved.

Or not resolved.... woooooooo...... :wiggles fingers: up to you.....

And I don't like having to press six different buttons to walk up a hill... Maybe this game isn't for me.

This is probably true. It won't be for a lot of people.
But at least the demo let you know first.

[filopilo]

the saddest part is, that Quantic themselves are convinced that the (voice)acting in this game is good.

*

David Cage is , quantic dream i don't think so...

btw , i had a good laught at CAD.Might have been posted before but too lazy to check.

[CosmicGroinPull]

I'm pretty sure that's what ARI does. It scans the the prints and stores the data.

Blah blah. So what? Solideye is still cooler.

[CosmicGroinPull]

* David Cage is , quantic dream i don't think so... btw , i had a good laught at CAD.Might have been posted before but too lazy to check. [IMG]http://www.cad-comic.com/comics/cad/20100212.jpg[/IMG

:lol

[Loudninja]

Looking at the reviews, they don't seem to have much a problem with the VA.

[Rez]

* David Cage is , quantic dream i don't think so... btw , i had a good laught at CAD.Might have been posted before but too lazy to check.

cut out the last two panels and that is actually pretty great

[RedRedSuit]

Looking at the reviews, they don't seem to have a problem with the VA.

Look, man, I'm excited about this game, but whom are you going to believe, reviews or your lying ears?

[Loudninja]

Look, man, I'm excited about this game, but whom are you going to believe, reviews or your lying ears?

You only played the demo they played and beat the game, and no I did not have a problem with the VA like some of you did. You barely got a taste of the VA.

[mescalineeyes]

Looking at the reviews, they don't seem to have much a problem with the VA.

that's not true. MTV Multiplayer for example mentioned them in their review.

can some of you guys really not hear how bad/awkward it is? It's such a god-damn shame, too. With good voice acting and writing that doesn't sound like a foreign exchange student writing a play this could have been one of the standout games of the generation.

as it is, it's just a nice change of pace from the other games, but falls short of being truly remarkable, and I think the blame largely falls on Cage thinking too highly of himself as a director and as a speaker of the english language.

[mescalineeyes]

You only played the demo they played and beat the game, and no I did not have a problem with the VA like some of you did. You barely got a taste of the VA.

I played and beat the game. sadly, the voice acting does not get a lot better than what the demo offers, just worse. the first 1-2 hours of the game are 90% cringe and 10% cheese.

[spats]

I'm not getting the VA hate, I thought they are well above average.

[Loudninja]

I played and beat the game. sadly, it does not get a lot better than the demo offers, just worse. the first 1-2 hours of the game are 90% cringe and 10% cheese.

Really I have no problem with it at all from what I heard, some of you I think just over act a lot when it comes to this type of thing.

I'm not getting the VA hate, I thought they are well above average.

Me too.

[mescalineeyes]

Really I have no problem with it at all from what I heard, some of you I think just over act a lot when it comes to this type of thing.

I really don't think so.

the game is full of lines no person capable of the english language, americans, no less, would say; delivered in ways that make no sense and do not in any way reflect the situations the people are in.

your avatar is Uncharted 2 for crying out loud, now that's a game with good fucking VA, for a story that's barely important.
Heavy Rain is all about the story and is plagued by not just bad voice acting, but weird, wooden animations and some really sub-par character modelling. It really does the game no favors.

[Rez]

I think both 'sides' in this thread are kind of over-reacting. the VA certainly isn't total shit, but it certainly isn't above average.

It falls into that middle range of VA that I associate with most AAA PS2 titles. I'll adjust to it in time, but it certainly isn't Hollywood.

[RedRedSuit]

You only played the demo they played and beat the game

There is absolutely no reason to believe that the demo magically contains precisely the worst voice acting from the game. Therefore, the most reasonable conclusion is that the demo accurately represents the voice acting quality in the game.

Other things, however, namely the thriller aspects and emotional investment of the story, most likely were only slightly hinted at in the demo, so I'm still fully expecting a very good game. But the VAs, at least in English? No, it's pretty much a done deal. They're not good.

and no I did not have a problem with the VA like some of you did. You barely got a taste of the VA.

I've heard enough of the hooker chick's flamboyant displays of grief and the FBI guy's vaguely disinterested ramblings to know what THOSE guys are going to sound like. Sorry, I'm just being realistic.

as it is, it's just a nice change of pace from the other games, but falls short of being truly remarkable, and I think the blame largely falls on Cage thinking too highly of himself as a director and as a speaker of the english language.

It's too early to say something like that without actually playing through the game. Even with these demo VAs, it's obvious the overall game itself can really really deliver IMO.