[alexthekid]

Me and my girlfriend had an argument about gender operations the other day and hopefully you can bring it to an end.

I feel so stupid asking this, but what can you actually change if you are a woman that wants to be a man? There are no way that you can get something that looks and works like a "normal" penis in todays medical world right? Normaly i would just google something that i didnt know and didnt have anyone to ask but i never google anything having to do with the human body and operations, to many bloody and strange pictures:P

I know nothing about this stuff. I have a couple of gay friends but never known an transsexual. Dont know what to say but good for you about coming to this realisation, im hoping it helps you to be happy:)

[Ducarmel]

Congrats and more power to those that are coming out and singing proud.

Genital reassignment Genital reconstructive procedures (GRT) use either the clitoris, which is enlarged by androgenic hormones (Metoidioplasty), or rely on free tissue grafts from the arm, the thigh or belly and an erectile prosthetic (Phalloplasty). The latter usually include multiple procedures, more expense and with a less satisfactory outcome, in terms of replicating nature. In either case, the urethra can be rerouted through the phallus to allow urination through the reconstructed penis. The labia majora (see vulva) are united to form a scrotum, where prosthetic testicles can be inserted.

source

Man that sucks they cant get close to the real thing yet!!!!!!.

[Whoompthereitis]

Well I guess I should post here as well. Another trans-GAF member here. Probably the youngest too 15 so I haven't transitioned yet. I'll write a little about myself. I live in Texas, near Galveston/Houston. Born a male, and I want to transition to a female. Bisexual. (I guess? I find all genders and such attractive. Male, female, MTF/FTM, genderqueer, doesn't matter.) Only child. I was born with a birth injury, Erb's palsy, that caused my left arm to be paralyzed. (It still is if you're curious. Yeah, I play games one-handed. Not related to being trans but I'm writing about me, felt it was fine to put there :P) As a toddler/little kid I was often confused as a girl because of my curly/wavy hair I guess, and people would say "oh what a cute little girl"... stuff like that. I was never insulted by it though, because I took it as a compliment. I wanted to be a girl even at that age, but I never said it out loud or anything. My mom/dad bring up how people used to call me a girl from time to time as a joke or something, dunno... I guess they mean for me to look back be glad that it doesn't happen anymore. But I'm not glad. In elementary school I never really fit in with the boys. (pretty much still don't but at least I can make friends with them now) Until I was 9, I didn't even have a close male friend. All of them were female before that. I also had this ponytail (which I kept until 6th grade) because it made me feel slightly girly. I also always wanted to have my ears pierced at this age, but my parents never let me. Even though when they asked me why and I said "other guys do it!" (not why I wanted them obviously) they still said no. Middle school was pretty shitty. People were going through puberty and the girls only talked to other girls or good looking guys (I wasn't.) Since most of my friends were female, I was pretty lonely and overall miserable. Towards the end I started making friends with the friends of my few male friends, or guys who did the same things I did (just games pretty much.) I don't even remember much of middle school because I just want to forget it ever happened. During this time period is when I found out about GID from reading stuff on the internet. It was then I found out that me feeling like/wanting to be a girl wasn't just some weird fantasy that could never happen. Like many other transgenders though, I didn't just go "oh that describes me perfectly, now I know why I feel like this.." I went through denial, self-hate, depression, etc. My first year of high school was improved compared to middle school I guess, but I was a mess on the inside. Before I go on, I want to say that I don't hold these views/beliefs AT ALL anymore and look back on the fact that I did at all with disgust, no matter how depressed or delusional I was. Anyways. Towards the end of my first HS year, I started reading... white supremacist/neo-nazi sites. First I just wanted to see how people could think like this with the history behind the ideals and all, then before I knew it I started believing all that shit. I was a racist and a conspiracy theory nut. Looking back, I don't know why I ever bought into that stuff. If I had to say, I would say I was trying to "hate" the trans out of myself and ignored/twisted the facts. At the time I was still depressed and I was still going through the self-hate. Also I have to say, the white supremacist/neo-nazi nonsense is like a fucking virus for anyone in a fragile mental state. Never read that shit even if you're just curious to see why those nutjobs are such nutjobs. Thankfully before I shaved my head and bought some boots, a friend of mine "woke" me up. I don't even think he meant to, but I guess I was just going overboard with the bullshit on MSN and he asked "you don't really believe that, do you?" When he asked that.. I realized I didn't. It was all really bullshit. I only got caught into it because I felt bad about myself and thought that hating what I was (and many other groups of people, sadly) could make it go away. I knew there that I had to start accepting myself or I'd keep feeling like shit. And I did! I started reading some trans sites, transitioning stories, seeing progress pictures, etc. I think one of the main reasons I was in denial/self-hate is because I was afraid that if I ever went through with it, I'd look like one of those "trannies" from Jerry Springer. It's a shame that I let something meant to humiliate people for ratings affect my perception of transgenders, because when I took the time to look at pictures and read the stories of actual transgenders.. I saw that many of them looked like regular women and had a normal life with a husband and all. It was all inspiring stuff. I started coming out to my online friends, all of them were pretty accepting. I posted in the GayGAF thread for advice and met Lexi. Eventually I came out to my mom too, although I don't think she quite understood what I was telling her, and she probably doesn't remember it/take it seriously... but it was nice to tell the person closest to me, in person. Currently I'm not planning to transition until I'm 18. I don't want to transition while still in HS for obvious reasons. Haven't came out to my dad yet either, never really connected with him and I'm just kind of afraid to tell him. Not out of fear that he'd hurt me or abuse me, but I think it might depress him or something. Particularly, I feel like he might think he failed as a father if his son wants to be a girl. Which isn't true, it's nobody's fault, but I just want to avoid that sort of thing for now I guess. I can't really define the specifics of how I feel like a girl. I just... do. I dislike how I am/feel as a male. I guess you could put me in the "really dislikes being male but isn't extremely girly, would be happier as a female though" group. Pretty much the only stereotypically male things I like to do are playing games and reading/learning about history. Maybe technology if you consider that stereotypically male, but it's always been a gender neutral (or "for nerds of all genders" :P) type of thing in my eyes. And I'm done for now. Long, and probably full of mistakes, but at least I type better than most 15 y/os.

Wow. Being a hetero white male adolescent was though enough. I can't imagine how strong you've had to be. I wish I could give you a hug...sorry if that sounds patronizing.

[Alfarif]

The documentary Prodigal Sons may be of interest: part of the story involves the director, once the high school's star quarterback, returning to her hometown in Montana after ten years now as a woman.

Oh, wow... just the trailer makes me want to see this BAD.

[Alfarif]

Lots of great links. There are quite a few fem voice training stuff on Youtube. One of the most striking is this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbaj4...eature=channel Shes got it nailed totally and when in the middle of the video she switches to her male voice its a very wow moment. Voice is one of the things that i really need to work on more. Imo, its probably the most important thing to me than the other stuff.. clothes, makeup, etc.

WOW! Amazing! I'm going through this so I can make my female voice more convincing. She sounds almost EXACTLY like one of my friends. Great find!

[water_wendi]

Lotsa stuffs

Thanks for sharing.. great post. Good for you that you figured out a lot of stuff early. When you are confused and hurt its very easy to give into hate. Like someone else said earlier about hating men i went through a period like that as well.. its mush easier to be very angry with a group to keep yourself from asking the tough questions about self-identity. Its very much like you describe with the whole "hate the trans away."

WOW! Amazing! I'm going through this so I can make my female voice more convincing. She sounds almost EXACTLY like one of my friends. Great find!

im glad you liked it. There are some pay tutorials/exercises ive heard good things about but right now i cant spring the money for them. i can get my voice to very close to what i hear in my head but i cant hold it long and it doesnt sound just right. i cannot wait for the day when someone calls me ma'am or miss in public.

[subzero9285]

Very informative thread, and I just wanted to check in to show my support .

Also, I'd like to recommend the film 'Soldier's Girl', which is based on a true story. It's a very moving film.

Here's the trailer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sRGi4UFqj8

[shidoshi]

Since I missed out on making the banner, I had to at least put together something visual for this thread. *heh*

For anybody who is transgender, and especially for anybody who would like to better understand how it might feel to be transgender, I cannot recommend enough Hourou Musuko (lit. Wandering Son). Japanese manga has a long-running history of transgender characters, gender-bending characters, or "trap" characters, but typically they are depicted in ways that never really take the character not the issue seriously.

Hourou Musuko is different. The story is about two young children - Shuuichi Nitori and Yoshino Takatsuki - both of whom are struggling to come to terms with the feelings that exist inside of them. Nitori, a boy, is finds himself drawn toward the life (and especially clothing) of his many female friends, while Takatsuki rebels against the pressures she feels around her to be more feminine. So far, throughout its ten chapters, the story has done a really good job of portraying the struggles, hopes, fears, and other such feelings that people who are transgender feel, though it does so while still trying to be entertaining and never getting so heavy that the reader gets overwhelmed by the inherent drama of the situations the main characters are put into.

While Hourou Musuko creator, Takako Shimura, is not transgender herself, she has done a number of LGBT-related manga titles. What I've found amazing while reading through Hourou is just how much I can relate to Nitori in many of the things he goes through throughout the story. While he's a courageous and upbeat character, there are little moments in the various chapters where some small sign of the struggle he's going through come out, and those moments are absolutely heartbreaking.

Even if you're typically not one for Japanese manga (and/or comics in general), Hourou Musuko is seriously a really worth-while read. As I said, if you're not transgender, but are curious to know more about what such people are going through, I've been really impressed by how much you can learn from this comic.

There are currently ten chapters of the story completely, but unfortunately not only is there no official English-language release of the series on sale either here in North American, or anywhere else from what I know, an English-language release is probably unlikely. However, thanks to the hard work of fan translators, you can read all ten of the current chapters online. I'm hesitant to directly post a link to where the comic can be read in English online, since the best source for it unfortunately doesn't have a policy of taking down any titles that are licensed in the West, but doing a big of Google searching can get you in the right direction in a matter of seconds.

[lexi]

im glad you liked it. There are some pay tutorials/exercises ive heard good things about but right now i cant spring the money for them. i can get my voice to very close to what i hear in my head but i cant hold it long and it doesnt sound just right. i cannot wait for the day when someone calls me ma'am or miss in public.

My advice would be to forget about those paid ones you're thinking of. CandiFLA's youtube series is phenomenal, with practice, you CAN get to be as good as her.

[Risette]

Wow. Being a hetero white male adolescent was though enough. I can't imagine how strong you've had to be. I wish I could give you a hug...sorry if that sounds patronizing.

Thanks, and even though your post wasn't patronizing, don't worry about it. It doesn't bother me. I kinda like it in small doses actually :)

Thanks for sharing.. great post. Good for you that you figured out a lot of stuff early. When you are confused and hurt its very easy to give into hate. Like someone else said earlier about hating men i went through a period like that as well.. its mush easier to be very angry with a group to keep yourself from asking the tough questions about self-identity. Its very much like you describe with the whole "hate the trans away."

Yeah, I'm glad that I came to my realization/self-acceptance at an early age. That way, hopefully, I'll be able to transition as soon as possible.

[shidoshi]

Before I go on, I want to say that I don't hold these views/beliefs AT ALL anymore and look back on the fact that I did at all with disgust, no matter how depressed or delusional I was. Anyways. Towards the end of my first HS year, I started reading... white supremacist/neo-nazi sites. First I just wanted to see how people could think like this with the history behind the ideals and all, then before I knew it I started believing all that shit. I was a racist and a conspiracy theory nut. Looking back, I don't know why I ever bought into that stuff. If I had to say, I would say I was trying to "hate" the trans out of myself and ignored/twisted the facts. At the time I was still depressed and I was still going through the self-hate. Also I have to say, the white supremacist/neo-nazi nonsense is like a fucking virus for anyone in a fragile mental state. Never read that shit even if you're just curious to see why those nutjobs are such nutjobs.

Not that I went in the direction you did, but I can definitely relate to this overall situation. In high school, I was constantly changing my style, especially when I started getting into the dating scene. If I dated a stoner girl, I'd dress like her and be into the same things she was. If I dated a more hippie girl, same thing. A preppy girl, same, so on and so on.

When I was younger, I thought that maybe I was just kind of a moron at that point and ready to just go with whatever crowd I was around at the time. *laughs* Looking back, though, I think that I was trying to figure out who exactly I was, due to all of the internal confusion that I had. You feel like you aren't the person you're supposed to be, but until you know the source of those feelings, you think they're coming from other things. So, if I'm not happy being this type of person, maybe I should be that type instead! It's like a baby with one of those toys where you have to fit the pieces into the holes with the matching shape: you know the peg goes somewhere, but you don't know where, so you keep trying each possibility until one finally works.

So even if part of why you fell into that lifestyle was motivated by self-hate, I really think another part of it was the ease at which you can fall into things like that when you're in the position of having no real clue who you really are.

[Novid]

Since I missed out on making the banner, I had to at least put together something visual for this thread. *heh* For anybody who is transgender, and especially for anybody who would like to better understand how it might feel to be transgender, I cannot recommend enough Hourou Musuko (lit. Wandering Son). Japanese manga has a long-running history of transgender characters, gender-bending characters, or "trap" characters, but typically they are depicted in ways that never really take the character not the issue seriously. Hourou Musuko is different. The story is about two young children - Shuuichi Nitori and Yoshino Takatsuki - both of whom are struggling to come to terms with the feelings that exist inside of them. Nitori, a boy, is finds himself drawn toward the life (and especially clothing) of his many female friends, while Takatsuki rebels against the pressures she feels around her to be more feminine. So far, throughout its ten chapters, the story has done a really good job of portraying the struggles, hopes, fears, and other such feelings that people who are transgender feel, though it does so while still trying to be entertaining and never getting so heavy that the reader gets overwhelmed by the inherent drama of the situations the main characters are put into. While Hourou Musuko creator, Takako Shimura, is not transgender herself, she has done a number of LGBT-related manga titles. What I've found amazing while reading through Hourou is just how much I can relate to Nitori in many of the things he goes through throughout the story. While he's a courageous and upbeat character, there are little moments in the various chapters where some small sign of the struggle he's going through come out, and those moments are absolutely heartbreaking. Even if you're typically not one for Japanese manga (and/or comics in general), Hourou Musuko is seriously a really worth-while read. As I said, if you're not transgender, but are curious to know more about what such people are going through, I've been really impressed by how much you can learn from this comic. There are currently ten chapters of the story completely, but unfortunately not only is there no official English-language release of the series on sale either here in North American, or anywhere else from what I know, an English-language release is probably unlikely. However, thanks to the hard work of fan translators, you can read all ten of the current chapters online. I'm hesitant to directly post a link to where the comic can be read in English online, since the best source for it unfortunately doesn't have a policy of taking down any titles that are licensed in the West, but doing a big of Google searching can get you in the right direction in a matter of seconds.

Thanks for this. Wouldnt get a release though because despite it being tame, the subject matter wont fly with the money boys. There loss - would like to see this series get a chance with Vertical and the like...

That leads me to a friend of mine who dealt with those that were transgender, and he has always been respectful of them - despite some that were so up in the "game" (escort and what not) they treated him badly. I kinda was angry about what went down but he has a transgenderd relationship now and they couldnt be more happy.

Im reminded about Maddie Blaustein and the day she knew she couldnt be "Adam" any more - the day she recorded "Meouth Go West". She was a lucky one explecially when most her age would ended up in the "game". So I understand what so many transgendered go through, and why i kinda defend 4Kids partly despite the detractors. Maddie died some time ago, and she was a tresure to everybody that met her. You cant say that about alot of the VA outside of the superstars at the main three.

[Nikashi]

Hello Transgaf :)

Just posting to show my support, and to relate that almost ever TG girl I've met has been super cool, and the nerdiest damn girls I've ever met (And I mean that in a very positive sense).

[Alfarif]

A lot of discovery

I'm really proud of you. I know that it took a lot of courage to overcome all of that and start realizing what you are meant to be. I'm also proud that you're going to wait until 18, after all of the turmoil of high school. Those years were bad enough for anyone without needing to go through what you're going through.

[lexi]

I wanted to ask this question yesterday but held off. Glad you took the leap. Lexi is very cute. Looks like a couple female friends, and even one girl I dated a long time ago.

Oh, I missed this. Thank you :3 I think that's just a flattering angle and good lighting. :P

Although I had an awesome experience recently, a friend who I've known most of my life moved to Japan last year, before I started my transition. I sent him a recent photo and he commented that he's conflicted, his first thoughts were appraising me as a sexual partner before he actually realized he was looking at 'me'.

[MaximumX2]

I'm not trans, but I figured I'd stop buy and also show support to fellow folks who also fall into the LGBT category. :D

[Maklershed]

Hmm .. don't know that I've ever met a transgendered person before. Although I don't suppose they'd say "Hi, my name is so and so and I'm transgendered".

[Alfarif]

im glad you liked it. There are some pay tutorials/exercises ive heard good things about but right now i cant spring the money for them. i can get my voice to very close to what i hear in my head but i cant hold it long and it doesnt sound just right. i cannot wait for the day when someone calls me ma'am or miss in public.

I'll call you ma'am all you like. LOL!

[Alfarif]

Oh, I missed this. Thank you :3 I think that's just a flattering angle and good lighting. :P Although I had an awesome experience recently, a friend who I've known most of my life moved to Japan last year, before I started my transition. I sent him a recent photo and he commented that he's conflicted, his first thoughts were appraising me as a sexual partner before he actually realized he was looking at 'me'.

Must've felt really, really good.

Do any of the TG members of GAF maintain blogs/vlogs? I think that would be a great way to remember your transition. And it seems to be an outlet for a lot of people.

[soco]

The documentary Prodigal Sons may be of interest: part of the story involves the director, once the high school's star quarterback, returning to her hometown in Montana after ten years now as a woman.

i saw that at SIFF this past year and really enjoyed it.

i also watched Be Like Others which covers MTF transitions in Iran. these were a bit different as a lot seemed to get the operation done because they were gay and wanted to legally be with guys they loved. it's still a fascinating picture albeit it incredibly heartbreaking.

[Koshiba]

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n122/pikoeri/hourou.png Since I missed out on making the banner, I had to at least put together something visual for this thread. *heh* For anybody who is transgender, and especially for anybody who would like to better understand how it might feel to be transgender, I cannot recommend enough Hourou Musuko (lit. Wandering Son). Japanese manga has a long-running history of transgender characters, gender-bending characters, or "trap" characters, but typically they are depicted in ways that never really take the character not the issue seriously. Hourou Musuko is different. The story is about two young children - Shuuichi Nitori and Yoshino Takatsuki - both of whom are struggling to come to terms with the feelings that exist inside of them. Nitori, a boy, is finds himself drawn toward the life (and especially clothing) of his many female friends, while Takatsuki rebels against the pressures she feels around her to be more feminine. So far, throughout its ten chapters, the story has done a really good job of portraying the struggles, hopes, fears, and other such feelings that people who are transgender feel, though it does so while still trying to be entertaining and never getting so heavy that the reader gets overwhelmed by the inherent drama of the situations the main characters are put into. While Hourou Musuko creator, Takako Shimura, is not transgender herself, she has done a number of LGBT-related manga titles. What I've found amazing while reading through Hourou is just how much I can relate to Nitori in many of the things he goes through throughout the story. While he's a courageous and upbeat character, there are little moments in the various chapters where some small sign of the struggle he's going through come out, and those moments are absolutely heartbreaking. Even if you're typically not one for Japanese manga (and/or comics in general), Hourou Musuko is seriously a really worth-while read. As I said, if you're not transgender, but are curious to know more about what such people are going through, I've been really impressed by how much you can learn from this comic. There are currently ten chapters of the story completely, but unfortunately not only is there no official English-language release of the series on sale either here in North American, or anywhere else from what I know, an English-language release is probably unlikely. However, thanks to the hard work of fan translators, you can read all ten of the current chapters online. I'm hesitant to directly post a link to where the comic can be read in English online, since the best source for it unfortunately doesn't have a policy of taking down any titles that are licensed in the West, but doing a big of Google searching can get you in the right direction in a matter of seconds.

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll be sure to check it out. :)

[NewGamePlus]

Hourou Musuko info

Me too, thanks

[Zaptruder]

I've got a nice book called "The Sexual Spectrum, by Olive Skene Johnson, that you should purchase - it covers biological causes behind transgenderism. I think the simplest place to start is with the fact that your genetic sex, physical sex, and sexual identity don't always match. In cissexual people, they do, but that's not the case for everyone; it's possible to have male chromosomes, but have partial androgen insensitivity syndrome which causes you to develop to look much like a female with just casual observation, for instance. This bit was interesting, I thought: She goes on to talk about differences - men's brains are slightly larger and are surrounded by more cerebrospinal fluid; women's brains are more densely packed with gray matter; women generally show greater competence in tests of speech and language, whereas men generally do better on difficult spatial tests; men lose brain cells about three times as fast as women between the late teens and late 40s, and the fact that there are structures in the brain that, on average, were significantly larger or smaller in one sex as compared to the other. In addition, she also talks about brain lateralization - men's brains tend to be more specialized, with one side of the brain being specialized for certain tasks, whereas women's brains tend to share handling of verbal and spatial tasks. These differences in brain lateralization can be seen as early as three months. And as far as the dressing up thing goes - there are different types of transgenderism (it's a very broad term that happens to include a lot of cross-gender behaviors); there's the "I always feel like a woman, even when I'm dressing as a man. I've always identified more strongly as a woman and have never really felt as though I were male, even as a child" transgenderism, then there's the "I feel like a woman when I'm crossdressing, but not in my day-to-day life," and there's the "I crossdress for my own entertainment / job / insert-other-personal-reasons-here." The transgender people in this topic are, I'm assuming, probably all of the first kind. In the broadest definition of "transgender," I think that the crossdressing behavior of a gay man would qualify, but it's... not the same thing. It's on one end of the continuum of cross gender behavior (e.g. temporarily adopting an exaggerated form of a particular type of femininity), whereas being transsexual is on another end (permanently adopting the gender presentation of the gender opposite what your apparent physical sex is). In a sex and sociology class I took a few years ago, it was mentioned that for some crossdressing men, the crossdressing began as a private thing, then became more public (e.g. they started going out dressed as women in public in attempt to pass as female), and eventually developed to the point that they felt as though they were female even when they weren't wearing the clothing (whereas before, they had only felt female while cross-dressing. It's possible that for some male-to-female transsexuals, that phase could be a way of sort of weaning themselves into the idea that they are, in fact, transsexual (not that the crossdressing causes it, but that it sort of serves as a stepping stone, maybe similar to the way that bisexuality serves as a temporary identity for some gay men (And this isn't to say that bisexuality isn't "real," because it is - but there are some gay men who initial identify as bisexual before later identifying as gay, and I think it might serve a similar purpose here).

Thanks for posting that info. Very interesting stuff... but if I'm reading this quote correctly:

But how do these sex differences occur? You probably won't be surprised to know that prenatal sex hormones set the stage for them. Researchers at the University of Waterloo demonstrated that very nicely. They measured the amount of testosterone in second trimester amniotic fluid (which had been obtained and frozen when expectant mothers had amniocentesis during pregnancy). When the children born to these mothers were 10 years old, the researchers tested them to see how their prenatal hormone level had influenced their hand preference and the way their brains' two hemispheres were specialized. They found that girls who'd been exposed to higher levels of testosterone in the womb than other girls were more strongly right-handed and had stronger left-hemisphere ability for speech, a pattern that's often found in males. In boys, those who'd been exposed to higher testosterone levels in the womb had stronger right-brain specialization for emotion, a pattern more often found in females. For both girls and boys, then, the higher level of testosterone in the womb, the more specialized each hemisphere became. [...] But the more impressive evidence for the influence of sex hormones on cognitive abilities comes from Dutch studies of transsexuals who were given hormones to help them change into the opposite sex. Stephanie Van Goozen and her colleagues reported that female-to-male transsexuals, after being treated with testosterone, shifted from the female pattern of cognitive abilities to the male one - that is, their verbal fluency declined while their spatial ability improved. Exposing them to male hormone had made their brains as well as bodies masculine. Just the opposite occurred in male-to-female transsexuals: after being treated with estrogen and anti-androgens, they shifted from the male pattern of cognitive performance to the female one - that is, their verbal skill improved and their spatial ability declnied. Depriving them of male hormones and giving them female hormones had feminized not only their bodies, but their brains as well. These results provide some of the best evidence yet for a causal effect of sex hormones on brain functions. They also show that our brains remain susceptible to sex hormone effects even in adulthood.

Doesn't that indicate that male and female gender identification exist somewhat independently of hormones?

That is the people believing themselves to be female could still be further feminized as far as the brain goes with the appropriate hormones, and vice versa?

But it also doesn't describe what happens when you give a pre transformed 'female' (sorry... the more elegant term escapes me right now) more testosterone; does that person break away from identifying with female? Or does it only simply increase male related performance characteristics (spatial-cognition) while female characteristics decline (speech, social, etc).

If it does, wouldn't it be better to stay the bodily gender and 'mod' the mind via hormone therapy? Is that an offensive point to make? :/

[shidoshi]

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll be sure to check it out. :)

Me too, thanks

If you two (or anybody else) ends up reading it, be sure to come back and say what you think. I'd be curious to hear what others thought of it.

[umop_3pisdn]

My heart goes out to everyone stuggling with gender-incongruence. I'm really glad this thread was finally made. I'm not trans, but I've always been a bit 'gender-queer'.

[siddx]

My aunt is a post op. And unfortunately, it caused a lot of chaos in her life. She lost her job, gained a ton of weight, lost friends. It's a damn shame, on both her part for not handling some stuff better, but mostly a shame that the people around her behaved so ignorantly towards her.

She has a good heart, but the experience seemed to bring out the side of her that makes her very inept at getting along with people. Short tempered, off color sense of humor, and very loud and obnoxious on occasion. She also has poor hygiene and a complete lack of self awareness. I don't know why, but none of these things were prevalent with her until the sex change. I wonder if the fact she didn't follow after care guidelines regarding things like hormones very closely has anything to do with it. And of course the bullshit she had to put up with from idiots.
She also seems to regret her decision on some level. She's never outright said it, but she hints very strongly at it quite often.

[NewGamePlus]

Thanks for posting that info. Very interesting stuff... but if I'm reading this quote correctly: Doesn't that indicate that male and female gender identification exist somewhat independently of hormones? That is the people believing themselves to be female could still be further feminized as far as the brain goes with the appropriate hormones, and vice versa? But it also doesn't describe what happens when you give a pre transformed 'female' (sorry... the more elegant term escapes me right now) more testosterone; does that person break away from identifying with female? Or does it only simply increase male related performance characteristics (spatial-cognition) while female characteristics decline (speech, social, etc). If it does, wouldn't it be better to stay the bodily gender and 'mod' the mind via hormone therapy? Is that an offensive point to make? :/

It doesn't really work that way. The hormones don't actually change one's identity just his or her body chemistry. Giving testosterone to an identified MTF would probably make that person feel even more detached from herself. Not to mention potentially harmful as she would then be on steroids.

Edit: I feel I could have said that better. Even if hormones make a person appear and act more masculine or feminine that doesn't mean that person would ever want to be that way.

[charsace]

I would just like to throw my support out to you guys. I personally feel that one person should not hate someone just because they are different from what they consider normal. Normal for one person can be different for another person.

I have a question. How many of you had significant others when you finally admitted to them that you didn't feel right as a male/female?

[shidoshi]

She also seems to regret her decision on some level. She's never outright said it, but she hints very strongly at it quite often.

That's one of the things that really scares me about all of this. I mean, I have second thoughts when I buy a video game for full price: would it be possible that I might feel serious regret if I made the full transition? What if I don't look as good as I'd hope to look? What if many, many things?

I don't know your aunt's case, but I know that a lot of trans folk seem to put a lot of reliance on their transition to be the big "fix it" for their lives. There's a documentary series the Logo network ran called TransGeneration - it's a very interesting look at the lives of four young transgender people (two MTFs, two FTMs) and what they're going through. (It's up on Netflix streaming for anybody who has that.) There's one girl on the show named Gabbie who seemed to put all of her attention on her gener re-assignment surgery, as if once the penis was gone and the vagina was in place her life would be complete.

That's not the way it works, though. Steps you take cane make things easier or harder, make you feel better or worse about yourself, but at the end of the day, whether or not you are happy with who you are all depends on you. If you expect any of the steps of transition to be the magic cure for your feelings, you're only going to find disappointment. It's like the child who waits for Christmas day - the day comes, the presents are opened, and then he realizes that what he was waiting for for months is over and his life really isn't all that different.

Again, not that I know this for sure, but I wonder if that doesn't play some part in the lives of trans folk who make the transition and then regret it. Transitioning isn't an answer nor solution; it is but one of many factors that can help you in getting your life to a better place.

have a question. How many of you had significant others when you finally admitted to them that you didn't feel right as a male/female?

I have a significant other while I'm trying to deal with all of this. A wife, to be specific.

So... yeah.

[siddx]

That's one of the things that really scares me about all of this. I mean, I have second thoughts when I buy a video game for full price: would it be possible that I might feel serious regret if I made the full transition? What if I don't look as good as I'd hope to look? What if many, many things? I don't know your aunt's case, but I know that a lot of trans folk seem to put a lot of reliance on their transition to be the big "fix it" for their lives. There's a documentary series the Logo network ran called TransGeneration - it's a very interesting look at the lives of four young transgender people (two MTFs, two FTMs) and what they're going through. (It's up on Netflix streaming for anybody who has that.) There's one girl on the show named Gabbie who seemed to put all of her attention on her gener re-assignment surgery, as if once the penis was gone and the vagina was in place her life would be complete. That's not the way it works, though. Steps you take cane make things easier or harder, make you feel better or worse about yourself, but at the end of the day, whether or not you are happy with who you are all depends on you. If you expect any of the steps of transition to be the magic cure for your feelings, you're only going to find disappointment. It's like the child who waits for Christmas day - the day comes, the presents are opened, and then he realizes that what he was waiting for for months is over and his life really isn't all that different. Again, not that I know this for sure, but I wonder if that doesn't play some part in the lives of trans folk who make the transition and then regret it. Transitioning isn't an answer nor solution; it is but one of many factors that can help you in getting your life to a better place. I have a significant other while I'm trying to deal with all of this. A wife, to be specific. So... yeah.

Yes, I think you are correct. I got the sense she focused on the actual procedure to such a degree that she gave little though to what she would do afterwards. And even if she did, I doubt it could have prepared her for the struggles she was to face. This was a man in his late 30's becoming a woman, back in the early 90's. It was a very different era (as ridiculous as that sounds being only 17 or so years ago) and I don't think she was mentally or emotionally prepared for it because she has always been the kind of person who does everything herself, asks for little help, and keeps most of her emotions outside of anger bottled up.
Thats why I mentioned that she could have handled her transition better, I think she got off to a decent start, reached out somewhat to the transgender community for friendship and support. But after switching jobs everything went to hell. Where she had been mostly accepted at her old job, this new one treated her like she was a monster, and it caused her to deal with her frustrations by eating instead of seeking support elsewhere. She withdrew from the transgender community for whatever reason (possibly began to regret her decision and didn't want to be reminded of it by others?) When she had gained so much weight that she could no longer function in her job, it kind of led to a cave in that buried a large part of her life under the weight of everything she was trying to hold up by herself.

[lexi]

That's one of the things that really scares me about all of this. I mean, I have second thoughts when I buy a video game for full price: would it be possible that I might feel serious regret if I made the full transition? What if I don't look as good as I'd hope to look? What if many, many things? I don't know your aunt's case, but I know that a lot of trans folk seem to put a lot of reliance on their transition to be the big "fix it" for their lives. There's a documentary series the Logo network ran called TransGeneration - it's a very interesting look at the lives of four young transgender people (two MTFs, two FTMs) and what they're going through. (It's up on Netflix streaming for anybody who has that.) There's one girl on the show named Gabbie who seemed to put all of her attention on her gener re-assignment surgery, as if once the penis was gone and the vagina was in place her life would be complete. That's not the way it works, though. Steps you take cane make things easier or harder, make you feel better or worse about yourself, but at the end of the day, whether or not you are happy with who you are all depends on you. If you expect any of the steps of transition to be the magic cure for your feelings, you're only going to find disappointment. It's like the child who waits for Christmas day - the day comes, the presents are opened, and then he realizes that what he was waiting for for months is over and his life really isn't all that different. Again, not that I know this for sure, but I wonder if that doesn't play some part in the lives of trans folk who make the transition and then regret it. Transitioning isn't an answer nor solution; it is but one of many factors that can help you in getting your life to a better place.

It would be more worrying if you were at the opposite end of the spectrum, thinking that all your problems and issues will come to an end merely by the act of transitioning. As you said, it doesn't quite work that way. Early last year I had a moment of utter clarity when I realized that yes I'm going to fret and worry over this, yes I'm probably not going to look as good as I'd like (does anybody?, but these were all external concerns, they were all concerns from the outside looking in. I realized that I was doing this for myself, not for anyone else, and doing this made me feel more like myself than I had ever felt.

I have a significant other while I'm trying to deal with all of this. A wife, to be specific. So... yeah.

Does she know?

[NewGamePlus]

That's one of the things that really scares me about all of this. I mean, I have second thoughts when I buy a video game for full price: would it be possible that I might feel serious regret if I made the full transition? What if I don't look as good as I'd hope to look? What if many, many things? I don't know your aunt's case, but I know that a lot of trans folk seem to put a lot of reliance on their transition to be the big "fix it" for their lives. There's a documentary series the Logo network ran called TransGeneration - it's a very interesting look at the lives of four young transgender people (two MTFs, two FTMs) and what they're going through. (It's up on Netflix streaming for anybody who has that.) There's one girl on the show named Gabbie who seemed to put all of her attention on her gener re-assignment surgery, as if once the penis was gone and the vagina was in place her life would be complete. That's not the way it works, though. Steps you take cane make things easier or harder, make you feel better or worse about yourself, but at the end of the day, whether or not you are happy with who you are all depends on you. If you expect any of the steps of transition to be the magic cure for your feelings, you're only going to find disappointment. It's like the child who waits for Christmas day - the day comes, the presents are opened, and then he realizes that what he was waiting for for months is over and his life really isn't all that different. Again, not that I know this for sure, but I wonder if that doesn't play some part in the lives of trans folk who make the transition and then regret it. Transitioning isn't an answer nor solution; it is but one of many factors that can help you in getting your life to a better place. I have a significant other while I'm trying to deal with all of this. A wife, to be specific. So... yeah.

Oh my gosh, I felt bad but she really annoyed me on that show. It was worse because I also most closely identified with her. A few months ago (when I was watching the show) I was really depressed and wanted to throw myself into transition just to become someone else. Now, I know that I don't want to become someone else, I want to become me. So I've really slowed down to make sure I want everything I'm doing. Is it bad that I'm sort of using her as a template of what not to do? Like don't rely too much on surgery, always stand up straight, and never ever ever dye your hair pink and wear a completely pink outfit. I hope she really is happier now though.

[shidoshi]

Is it bad that I'm sort of using her as a template of what not to do?

Anything that helps you have more clarity on how to handle your own personal situation is never a bad thing.

Does she know?

Yeah, she knows. I told her a few weeks after I started dealing with it all. Our life currently is either ignoring the situation and living a happy life together, or dealing with it which means having arguments that leave me in total dispair. The whole thing is just... *sigh*

[lexi]

Yeah, she knows. I told her a few weeks after I started dealing with it all. Our life currently is either ignoring the situation and living a happy life together, or dealing with it which means having arguments that leave me in total dispair. The whole thing is just... *sigh*

*hug* I cannot imagine going through that. I've known a lot of transwomen who have transitioned who have been married, kids, etc. It's absolutely heart wrenching. :(

[water_wendi]

Yeah, she knows. I told her a few weeks after I started dealing with it all. Our life currently is either ignoring the situation and living a happy life together, or dealing with it which means having arguments that leave me in total dispair. The whole thing is just... *sigh*

Sorry to hear that. Being up front with her must have a difficulty i cant imagine but it was the right thing to do. i hoping everything works out as smoothly as possible.

[Gaborn]

*Hugs Lexi* awwww babe, so proud of you for thinking of this thread, great idea, and very needed, not TG of course but I support all of you <3

[Alfarif]

I have a significant other while I'm trying to deal with all of this. A wife, to be specific. So... yeah.

Oh wow, Shidoshi. I read a little further even though I only quoted this part. This has to be rough.

I once told my wife that when we are reincarnated, I want to be the short, pale, redhead, and she has to be the bald black man. She agreed.

We have conversed about this. If I wasn't attached, maybe I would consider this. Like I said, I feel better about myself these days than I did before, and maybe a therapist would know what was really up, but I couldn't put my wife through any of that. I love who she is and wouldn't want to make her change (she's not interested in being with a woman).

I can't imagine what you're going through. We're all here for you.

[Alfarif]

*hug* I cannot imagine going through that. I've known a lot of transwomen who have transitioned who have been married, kids, etc. It's absolutely heart wrenching. :(

Aww, why the avatar change? Too much attention? Or do you have one of those morphing avatars the kids find cool (and I wish I could do).

[GaimeGuy]

Does anyone know what might be some of the biological causes behind transgenderism? I mean, males and females are derived from the XY and XX chromosome respectively... but what's the biological basis for identifying so strongly with your 'non-biological' gender, when the X or the Y aren't present? Is it a hormonal thing? Or is it perhaps a personality type thing?

partially environment, partially biological, but science is tending towards biollogy playing a larger role.

Believe it or not, males and females have very distinct differences in their brain structures and brain activity for common tasks. Transgendered individuals tend to have brains which resemble in structure and activity that of the opposite sex.

[lexi]

Aww, why the avatar change? Too much attention? Or do you have one of those morphing avatars the kids find cool (and I wish I could do).

I thought having an avatar of myself was a little too narcissistic / attention whorish upon reflection. :P This was actually my original avatar, even pre-NeoGAF. I wonder if anyone is still around that remembers.

[Nikashi]

Am I gonna start having to keep a running total of Bridget avatars in this thread now ;)

[Zaptruder]

partially environment, partially biological, but science is tending towards biollogy playing a larger role. Believe it or not, males and females have very distinct differences in their brain structures and brain activity for common tasks. Transgendered individuals tend to have brains which resemble in structure and activity that of the opposite sex.

Well that's the common line that's repeated...

But are the differences so distinct, that overlap is that uncommon?

I mean, in 'racial' groups, there are differences between groups, but the differences within groups far outweigh between group differences. That is to say, racial differences exist, but only as a small effect that can only be applied to population groups and not to individuals which is what we deal with as people.

[shidoshi]

Sorry to hear that. Being up front with her must have a difficulty i cant imagine but it was the right thing to do. i hoping everything works out as smoothly as possible.

Unfortunately, I don't think there's a chance of that happening. At the point I'm at now, I've kind of come to realize that I only have two real options: either I stay with her and I try as much as possible to become a "normal" guy for her, or I realize that I can't be the husband she wants and needs, we separate, and I can consider moving forward with transitioning.

At this point, I've got an immense sense of guilt and self-hatred over the whole thing. My entire life, I told myself I wasn't going to enter into marriage lightly, because I had watched my parents have a horrible and messy divorce. I was determined to not get married until I met the right person, and until I was sure it was exactly what I wanted.

So here I am now, coming to terms with the fact that I married somebody without having all of my personal issues sorted out, and they're now coming to bite me in the ass. I made a promise to my wife that I now I feel like I can't keep, and I feel like I deceived her in who she was marrying. She wants the husband that she married - and she has every right to want that - and what I want ends up in the result of my taking that husband away from her. I feel selfish for wanting to put "me" over "us" in any way, and yet, I feel like if I can't accept myself then there's no way I can be a husband to her nor a father to any children we might have. I also feel guilty because I know how much she wants children, and I think that all of the years she's been with me leading up to now are years she could have spent with a better man who would have given her the life it seems that I cannot.

It's an utterly horrible situation. I love her with all of my heart, and just wish I could do whatever I need to do in order to live happily ever after with her. Unfortunately, what I need to do for that and what she needs from me for that seem to be miles apart.

[Hop]

Am I gonna start having to keep a running total of Bridget avatars in this thread now ;)

I was gonna say.... :P

Though this would be easily resolved by having more trans video game characters. (I actually have an FTM in the RPG storyline I've been building for years. He's a ninja. From Texas. He's 20 and the rest of the party first thought he was 12.)

[Alfarif]

Am I gonna start having to keep a running total of Bridget avatars in this thread now ;)

Haha, I was about to say the same thing. It can get almost like the Community or Lost threads, where I can't differientiate people.

Lexi, you should switch back! It was a good avatar and don't worry about narcissism. Doesn't seem to suit you, from what I can tell. Wear your avatar proud!

[Alfarif]

Shidoshi's story

I'm tearing up at work after reading this. I don't know what else to say. That has to be the toughest thing anyone has ever gone through.

[lexi]

I'm tearing up at work after reading this. I don't know what else to say. That has to be the toughest thing anyone has ever gone through.

I was just talking to a GAFfer about my tearing up too. Ughhh I can't get like this once I start I can't stop.

As for the avatar, maybe, I don't know. I was getting tired of that old photo. I'm much hotter now.

[Alfarif]

New picture/avatar time! :lol :lol :lol

Have you been keeping a picture diary of your transition? I wonder how common that is.

[lexi]

I have, but with the most unflattering angles so that I have an unbiased view of how much I'm changing. :P

[Sklorenz]

Shidoshi's story

Fuck man... I don't know what to tell you. Although I don't currently desire an "open" marriage, I've always been both down with and understanding of the idea. Would she be open minded enough to find a heterosexual male husband and retain you as a family member and lover of sorts despite your change? I know that sounds kind of weird, but over the last year or so, I've thought about it and found it somewhat strange that "open" marriages (note: I hate that the government won't let 2+ people marry, even if it's just a piece of paper) aren't more common... or rather, that two women and a man, or vice versa, each find themselves in love with one another and share a family together. I should also note that this is coming from a guy who's been engaged for over two years... Not married yet, but I would be if I didn't have to pay for my own wedding :P We get along great and have discussed this topic with no active intention of finding a third spouse, so to speak.

May not be possible, but perhaps it's feasible? Very sad thing.

Also, TEN THUMBS UP to fyrus, post of the month here on GAF. You're one hell of a 15 year old. Wish I was as mature as you at that age. You've definitely got your head on straight, and you'll certainly go places, male or female.