[Mindlog]

So I'm really happy that X-COM will be in first-person perspective and real-time.

I'm just curious. What is it about the XCOM universe that has you excited?

[Dennis]

I'm just curious. What is it about the XCOM universe that has you excited?

Me too. The X-Com universe was always super generic alien invasion stuff.

It was all about the gameplay.

[Zachack]

The issue is that literally the only reason to make X-Com an FPS in the first place -- i.e. to slap an old, familiar name onto a game in an overcrowded genre to make it stand out -- assures that the person making that call is fundamentally not interested in doing the game right. Sure, there's a way you could make an X-Com FPS that felt true to the series in some way, but there are like 27 different ways to do an X-Com game better (heck, you could even make it a real-time strategy game) that aren't turning it into an FPS, and someone who actually wanted to make a good X-Com game would inevitably explore those avenues instead.

You keep pretending that you're stating the obvious but there's nothing inherently wrong with the notion of turning X-Com into either a RTS or a FPS. Microprose already turned the series into an RTS with Apocalypse; it's a tiny jump for any half-capable and history-aware developer to see how you could morph X-Com into a Dungeon Keeper.

You have played Dungeon Keeper, right? Or Valkyria Chronicles (a different yet similar game)?

No, that really has nothing at all to do with what I was saying. :lol

You might not think it was but that's what happens when you use bad examples like Civ as a comparison to X-Com.

The issue isn't that every turn-based game can sell as well as Civ -- just like not every shooter can sell as well as MW2 and Halo, not every platformer can sell as well as Mario, etc. The issue is that people don't inherently mind turn-based gameplay at all. Civilization and turn-based Final Fantasy and other examples of games with turn-based gameplay sell millions here in the US. The idea that it is turn-based gameplay isn't itself a turn-off or an undesirable gameplay style in any way -- that's just a lingering falsehood that came into vogue when RTS games took off and has never quite been shed completely in the West.

And now you're lumping all turn-based gameplay into some sort of super-genre, which is just idiotic. By your methodology 2K should be releasing Falcon 5.0 because Ace Combat selling decently means that there must be a strong-enough market for to support a hyper-realistic flight-sim, or that Advance Wars selling really well globally means there's a market for for a medium/high-budget Steel Panthers 4.

I don't think anyone is saying that turn-based games are inherently unwanted, but there is a steep division in the kind of easy-going low-demand turn-based games like CivRev Final Fantasy and the detail-loaded (and detail critical because not paying attention to the details will ensure a bad experience) games like Jagged Alliance or X-Com.

I'm also really confused as to why you think you're some sort of torchbearer against those ignorant western publishers, particularly given that 2K games also published a high-budget, well-reviewed TBS console game in 2008 and continues to port that same title to new platforms.

[AstroLad]

Yes, in this case, forever is 1987.

flashbacks to the CGW #1 spot for what like ten years

[More Fun To Compute]

I'm just curious. What is it about the XCOM universe that has you excited?

For me it was the sexual tension between Mulder and Scully.

[Zachack]

No, isometric turn-based games were not made because of hardware limitations. Real-time first-person RPGs have been around forever, well before 1997.

This is true and untrue. Hardware limitations did (and still do) define what you can do within a certain genre. Fallout FP-RPG would have looked crude beyond belief in 1997, or they would have been forced into a DM/EOTB locked movement structure. Draw-distance is typically what gets hit the hardest; compare Fallout 3 to Ultima Underworld. Or Magic Carpet 2 to... Red Faction, I suppose.

For all its problems, technology had to advance for Ultima 9 to have roughly the same amount of interaction as Ultima 7.

[More Fun To Compute]

This is true and untrue. Hardware limitations did (and still do) define what you can do within a certain genre. Fallout FP-RPG would have looked crude beyond belief in 1997, or they would have been forced into a DM/EOTB locked movement structure. Draw-distance is typically what gets hit the hardest; compare Fallout 3 to Ultima Underworld. Or Magic Carpet 2 to... Red Faction, I suppose. For all its problems, technology had to advance for Ultima 9 to have roughly the same amount of interaction as Ultima 7.

Some people still think that Daggerfall is the best Elder Scrolls game, specifically because it was the least constrained and most complicated.

[Chairman Yang]

This is true and untrue. Hardware limitations did (and still do) define what you can do within a certain genre. Fallout FP-RPG would have looked crude beyond belief in 1997, or they would have been forced into a DM/EOTB locked movement structure. Draw-distance is typically what gets hit the hardest; compare Fallout 3 to Ultima Underworld. Or Magic Carpet 2 to... Red Faction, I suppose.

A Fallout first-person RPG could have been done easily in 1997. Hell, look at 1994--by then, you already had games like Betrayal at Krondor, System Shock 1, Elder Scrolls: Arena, Strahd's Possession, and many more. They all looked at least decent by the standards of the time. None of them had forced locked movement. They had limited draw distance, but that never affected their gameplay all that much. These sorts of RPGs were in vogue and well-understood. Fallout was the way it was for gameplay reasons, not because of technical limitations.

[SapientWolf]

You keep pretending that you're stating the obvious but there's nothing inherently wrong with the notion of turning X-Com into either a RTS or a FPS. Microprose already turned the series into an RTS with Apocalypse; it's a tiny jump for any half-capable and history-aware developer to see how you could morph X-Com into a Dungeon Keeper. You have played Dungeon Keeper, right? Or Valkyria Chronicles (a different yet similar game)?

There are a few first person strategy games out there. In fact, one of my favorite RTS games (Uprising) was primarily played from a first person view. But they haven't released any information that suggests that the new X-Com is even in that genre.

[charlequin]

I've always thought that all isometric turn-based games (except Civilzation, Heroes of Might & Magic and so on) are made this way because of hardware limitations.

You have always thought incorrectly. Real-time gameplay is actually older than turn-based gameplay, in computerized gaming terms.

There is nothing a game like Oblivion is doing today in terms of real-time 3D exploration and combat that FP real-time RPGs weren't doing in some form way back in 1992 with Ultima Underworld.

You keep pretending that you're stating the obvious but there's nothing inherently wrong with the notion of turning X-Com into either a RTS or a FPS.

There's plenty wrong with it:

Microprose already turned the series into an RTS with Apocalypse

I rest my case. :lol

If you actually want to talk about this I'm up for it, but the first step is to actually try to grasp what I'm saying. I am quite clear on the ways that one can make lemonade out of a lemon like an X-Com FPS and I have even posted them in this thread but the idea of actually setting out to do so as the revival of a long-dead series is still innately problematic and an X-Com game that looks like what we're getting (a "narrative" FPS almost certainly completely lacking the core gameplay elements of the franchise) is the inevitable result of said logic unless the developer put in charge of the project actually takes it upon themselves to actively solve the problem.

I'm also really confused as to why you think you're some sort of torchbearer against those ignorant western publishers, particularly given that 2K games also published a high-budget, well-reviewed TBS console game in 2008 and continues to port that same title to new platforms.

I'm really not. I accept that games get greenlighted based on conventional wisdom that is not always accurate and that I am not going to change that by myself, so I just buy games I like when they do turn up. Describing a series of events (the games of the late 90s helping build a persistent idea in the West that TB games can't sell well) isn't really the same as taking a pitchfork to someone's castle over it.

Some people still think that Daggerfall is the best Elder Scrolls game, specifically because it was the least constrained and most complicated.

There are people who don't think that?

[Sinatar]

Well at least this announcement compelled me to start up a runthrough of X-COM.

God this game is timeless, still as addictive as ever.

[Dennis]

Well at least this announcement compelled me to start up a runthrough of X-COM. God this game is timeless, still as addictive as ever.

Stop living in the past - its all about FPS games now.

[Tworak]

Well at least this announcement compelled me to start up a runthrough of X-COM. God this game is timeless, still as addictive as ever.

I've done that as well! :lol

easily my favourite game ever made. So good.

[More Fun To Compute]

There are people who don't think that?

There are bound to be people who believe or just assume that the elder scrolls games are better in every way with each new release. There's always someone saying something.

[Joseph Merrick]

Well at least this announcement compelled me to start up a runthrough of X-COM. God this game is timeless, still as addictive as ever.

yeah, same here. too great

[subversus]

I'm just curious. What is it about the XCOM universe that has you excited?

I'm excited about a non-linear squad-based shooter with strong RPG elements and coop. If it turns out to be a inear shooter with aliens colour me unexcited.

[CiSTM]

You keep pretending that you're stating the obvious but there's nothing inherently wrong with the notion of turning X-Com into either a RTS or a FPS. Microprose already turned the series into an RTS with Apocalypse; it's a tiny jump for any half-capable and history-aware developer to see how you could morph X-Com into a Dungeon Keeper.

RTS ? There was also turn based mode in apocalypse and it was way better than the RTS mode.

BTW why do people hate apocalypse ? If you don't count the goofy looking aliens and weapons I think apocalypse was equally good as UFO1&2 or maybe even better. I liked the fact that you didn't only have to worry about the aliens but you also have to worry about different organisations. If you piss someone off they will attack you and it was tons of fun to play against humans for every now and then. Tech tree is pretty amazing in apocalypse, tons of stuff to research. Also there were some awesome shoot outs between the aircrafts and ufos, and I still remember when those big fuckers started to come through the portal and kicking down buildings.

edit: and when your base was attacked and the scientist and engineers were actually units and therefore you had to pay attention when you build your base. Crew quaters close to labs so your scientis won't be killed by cult members or alines when they attack.

edit: ability to send agents was also fucking neat. FUCK! I'm gonna start playing Apocalypse again.

[epmode]

RTS ? There was also turn based mode in apocalypse and it was way better than the RTS mode.

I remember trying the turn-based mode and getting frustrated with it after 20 minutes. It seemed obvious that, for better or worse, the game was designed around the RTS mode.

I finished the game but I didn't like it nearly as much as X-COM 1.

[bigdaddygamebot]

I remember trying the turn-based mode and getting frustrated with it after 20 minutes. It seemed obvious that, for better or worse, the game was designed around the RTS mode. I finished the game but I didn't like it nearly as much as X-COM 1.

I feel differently. I thought XCom 3 felt like a turn-based game when some shithead at Microprose realized that RTS' are the new hotness and that feature got slapped on at the last minute.

[obonicus]

There are bound to be people who believe or just assume that the elder scrolls games are better in every way with each new release. There's always someone saying something.

Or who think that Morrowind was the best blend of hand-crafted environments and open world exploration.

[archnemesis]

I love Apocalypse just as much as the first two games, but I also find it almost unplayable in turn-based mode. Playing it in real-time is not only a lot faster, but it also enables other strategies.

@ all the people who recently starting playing X-Com again: Is anyone up for an ironman playthrough? I was thinking of making a thread for it.

[CiSTM]

I love Apocalypse just as much as the first two games, but I also find it almost unplayable in turn-based mode. Playing it in real-time is not only a lot faster, but it also enables other strategies. @ all the people who recently starting playing X-Com again: Is anyone up for an ironman playthrough? I was thinking of making a thread for it.

This I will give you. Some of those alien ships with 9 levels were pain in the ass to search in TBS mode.

WTF is ironman playthrough?
I'm gonna start playing Apocalypse today :)

[archnemesis]

No reloading when you mess up. If a soldier gets killed, or a base is lost then you just have to deal with it and try to continue without going back to an earlier save game.

[CiSTM]

No reloading when you mess up. If a soldier gets killed, or a base is lost then you just have to deal with it and try to continue without going back to an earlier save game.

:lol Too hard for me, I'll pass.

[Ledsen]

Or who think that Morrowind was the best blend of hand-crafted environments and open world exploration.

Yes, Morrowind was the pinnacle of ES.

[chicken_ramen]

I love Apocalypse just as much as the first two games, but I also find it almost unplayable in turn-based mode. Playing it in real-time is not only a lot faster, but it also enables other strategies. @ all the people who recently starting playing X-Com again: Is anyone up for an ironman playthrough? I was thinking of making a thread for it.

Sounds like fun. I started a few days ago when this news hit, but I'd forgotten so much. I'd be willing to start again and participate in a thread like that. GAF Plays - XCOM series. Or whatever.

[Neuromancer]

In X-Com my game always kind of fell apart once the greys (sectoids?) started psychically assaulting my troops. I know you could train them to be more resistant to it but I never really got the hang of it. The last 1/3 of the game was fairly terrifying as one by one my soldiers would either panic and drop their weapon, go crazy and start firing indiscriminately, or drop off the grid as the aliens got complete control of their minds. =\

[subversus]

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/63350

here you go

[Xater]

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/63350 here you go

Already way more interesting than the return of X-COM.

[HK-47]

i would say dragon age (on pc) is the perfect collision of real time combat (for the dudebros) but can also be paused and strategized.

Augh no. Boring combat is boring. Real time with pause is a shadow of turn based combat in strategy and and lacks the action of real time.

[MotorbreathX]

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/63350 here you go

I like!

[Nimyh]

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/63350 here you go

Nice.. definitely not the first attempt though. There were a bunch of attempted remakes and spiritual sequels that didn't live up to the original. And what the hell happened to X-Com DS :lol

[Jarate]

[IMG]http://i39.************/t8u5qg.jpg[/IMG]

I'll still but it :/

[Mindlog]

I'm excited about a non-linear squad-based shooter with strong RPG elements and coop. If it turns out to be a inear shooter with aliens colour me unexcited.

Fair enough with the gameplay mechanics. Without death I'm still on the - side of things.

BTW why do people hate apocalypse ?

I also liked Apocalypse. I love RTS games, but I played it in turn-based mode.

speaking of
I also enjoy Space Sims. Never played Interceptor.
I also enjoy FPS/SS games. Never played Enforcer/Alliance whatever it was called.

I love Apocalypse just as much as the first two games, but I also find it almost unplayable in turn-based mode. Playing it in real-time is not only a lot faster, but it also enables other strategies. @ all the people who recently starting playing X-Com again: Is anyone up for an ironman playthrough? I was thinking of making a thread for it.

It's about time for a new playthrough for me as well :D It doesn't feel like a real playthrough without at least several dozen casualties.

What mods does everyone use? I have an edited UFO Extender. I just used it for PS1 music, auto-sell factories, and a few other fixes.

In X-Com my game always kind of fell apart once the greys (sectoids?) started psychically assaulting my troops. I know you could train them to be more resistant to it but I never really got the hang of it. The last 1/3 of the game was fairly terrifying as one by one my soldiers would either panic and drop their weapon, go crazy and start firing indiscriminately, or drop off the grid as the aliens got complete control of their minds. =\

Catching the Sectoid Leader/Commander ASAP is pretty important. Almost as important as getting the Navigator.

Then the game gets too easy, because 2 psi-Rambos can kill everything on the map in one or two turns.

[SovanJedi]

I admit, I've never played X-COM before. I've seen an LPer named Kikoskia on Youtube play a bunch of the games and thought they looked really great and I regret not playing them at the time.

The trouble is as an FPS which from the miniscule amount of info we know has very very little to do thematically or gameplay wise with the original games, why go with the X-COM name anyway? It seems a bit pointless dredging that name out from the vaults and slapping it onto another FPS, even moreso considering the Bioshock team have made a pretty good job of building a profitable and critically successful business this generation out of an original FPS IP, however similar they may be to System Shock and all.

[archnemesis]

I also enjoy Space Sims. Never played Interceptor. I also enjoy FPS/SS games. Never played Enforcer/Alliance whatever it was called.

Alliance is the canceled squad based FPS. Both Interceptor and Enforcer were fun distractions back when they were first released, but they've both aged horribly.

What mods does everyone use? I have an edited UFO Extender. I just used it for PS1 music, auto-sell factories, and a few other fixes.

Here's the GAF Plays: X-Com thread. I always play vanilla, but when looking at the descriptions I'm tempted to add the Heavy Laser and Range Based Accuracy mods.

[Neuromancer]

Catching the Sectoid Leader/Commander ASAP is pretty important. Almost as important as getting the Navigator. Then the game gets too easy, because 2 psi-Rambos can kill everything on the map in one or two turns.

Ah. Well I was able to finish the game anyway but it was a harrowing experience.

[Acosta]

When are we going to get some info, anyone knows? I want to know the info before I start to insult 2K execs and their families.

[arakyd]

From the strategycore.co.uk forums:

Yesterday CanardPC (a French newspaper) published a first look about this new XCOM game. I'm reading the article right now so this will be short : - No world map : There's a USA map (with a 50s' style) for selecting the missions. - Research & production : yes. - Base management : yes. - Team management : yes. - Choice of the next missions : yes. - No control of your teammate during the mission (in the demo, this may change) It seems like you can goof around in your base between the mission (in first person view). EDIT : - The demo was running on an XBox360. - You play as the chief of operation of the base between the mission. - The choice of the played mission will impact the game. - In the demo, lots of area of the base were off limits. - During the missions you can take photos (research ?). - The game is due for release in a little more than a year.

[Neuromancer]

From the strategycore.co.uk forums:

This sounds pretty good... But is it true?

[Jintor]

A french newspaper, or games magazine? D:

[More Fun To Compute]

Some people have been dropping hints that the press release was underplaying how the game does have more X-COM like features. A Brutal Legendesque "don't tell the xbox owners that it's a strategy game" type move maybe.

X-COM to me is still a turn based tactical game at it's heart and I just don't want a shooter. When all the very negative people have been won over I will still be a bastion of indifference. :lol

[icarus-daedelus]

I'm excited about a non-linear squad-based shooter with strong RPG elements and coop.

Supposedly this is what Deus Ex 3 will be like. edit: except for coop.

[nexen]

Perfect, all we need now are Wasteland and Ultima VII FPS.

Sold.

slightly o/t:
Did anyone else have issues with the dynamic difficulty in X-Com?.

As soon as I researched certain items in that game the aliens would always bring bigger guns to the party. It sucked a lot of the fun out for me. Whenever I researched new tech it felt like an invisible little countdown started where I'd have to properly equip my squad or get forced into an unwinnable situation.

[Sinatar]

From the strategycore.co.uk forums: Yesterday CanardPC (a French newspaper) published a first look about this new XCOM game. I'm reading the article right now so this will be short : - No world map : There's a USA map (with a 50s' style) for selecting the missions. - Research & production : yes. - Base management : yes. - Team management : yes. - Choice of the next missions : yes. - No control of your teammate during the mission (in the demo, this may change) It seems like you can goof around in your base between the mission (in first person view). EDIT : - The demo was running on an XBox360. - You play as the chief of operation of the base between the mission. - The choice of the played mission will impact the game. - In the demo, lots of area of the base were off limits. - During the missions you can take photos (research ?). - The game is due for release in a little more than a year.

Sort of want...?

[MightyHedgehog]

Other than what may or may not be a lack of group/squad orders in the field, this sounds pretty cool...as long as you don't expect traditional X-COM. Given how lacking the variations in FPS games there are today, I suppose that this is better than nothing at all or more of the same. :shrug

[spindoc]

From the strategycore.co.uk forums: - During the missions you can take photos (research ?).

Now why does that sound so darn familiar! :lol

[Neuromancer]

Now why does that sound so darn familiar! :lol

There will also be Circus of Values vending machines

[Mindlog]

Sort of want...?

Basically, yes.

Sort of want XCOM: Bioshock Defense.

[Acosta]

That sounds fairly interesting (if well executed), if I'm not going to get the game I want, at least here is hope is interesting. I'm curious about the "team management", I'll wait for more information.