[JaseC]

I bought the DLC the other day, but have yet to play it. I've got Wednesdays off Uni though, so I'll either give them soon or tomorrow sometime.

Looking forward to it.

Edit: Just started playing The Signal.

[Curufinwe]

I just finished my Nightmare playthru using a guide, and I missed one coffee thermos so I'm stuck on 99. It could be in any one of the Episodes since Remedy didn't think it was necessary to breakdown collectible stats by Episode the way, say, Uncharted 2 did.

Fuck it.

[Curufinwe]

Thank god, I managed to find it in the first part of Episode 5 and it only took me another four hours of searching.

For anyone who cares about the collectibles, when you get to the Mayor's office, look in every room on both floors before you pick up the keys. Picking up the keys triggers a cutscene and stops you from going back into the office.

[daviyoung]

Just wrapped up this game and The Signal. Very, very good. Definite 8/10 considering how many Silent Hill/Resi 4 vibes I was getting from the gameplay.

Idea for sequel: Alan Wake 2 = Alice Wake

[SPEA]

Just got 'The Writer' from the Live sale going on. Worth every penny.

If you guys haven't picked it up yet I strongly suggest it. It's really well done and personally I think it's better than 'The Signal'. It's kind of a shame Remedy couldn't get a lot of the 'light ideas' into the actual game cause I think that would've definitely helped with some people's complaints of the sameness.

Either way, awesome stuff. Go buy it. Its 280pts and sets up Alan Wake 2 nicely. Hopefully :(

[Monroeski]

Was "the writer" the second DLC? What I thought about it was that while the level design itself was probably better than both the main game AND the first DLC, I thought Alan on the TVs screaming all the time kind of ruined it. I mean, I understand the point story wise about why he was totally freaking out, but it kind of took me out of the game a bit because having Alan yelling and going so crazy on the TVs seemed too far out of character for me.

[PumpkinPie]

Do you ever leave the forest or is the whole game just based around forest levels? I started the game a while back and it seems like I've just been doing neverending woodland...I want to see the town that I saw at the start of the game, not trees!

[thetechkid]

Do you ever leave the forest or is the whole game just based around forest levels? I started the game a while back and it seems like I've just been doing neverending woodland...I want to see the town that I saw at the start of the game, not trees!

Later into the game you go to the town, I think its chapter 3 or 4.

[derFeef]

I only finished The Signal so far and while it was nothing special, I quite liked it. Especially the "minefield" and the TV boss. Pure Alan Wake.
Can't wait to play The Writer as it seems this is the better one.

[ToyMachine228]

I didn't know The Writer was on sale. I'll have to pick it up. I've been watching Twin Peaks, which really makes me want to play Alan Wake again.

[snap0212]

The Writer is on sale? Bought! I've yet to finish The Signal, but I really want to go back to Alan Wake. My backlog is growing and growing, but Alan Wake was one of the few games that really grabbed my attention when it came out. Played through it in about two days and enjoyed pretty much every minute. I really hope the DLC is as good as the main game!

[Shake Appeal]

The Signal is okay. The Writer is really solid.

[Curufinwe]

The Writer is on sale? Bought! I've yet to finish The Signal, but I really want to go back to Alan Wake. My backlog is growing and growing, but Alan Wake was one of the few games that really grabbed my attention when it came out. Played through it in about two days and enjoyed pretty much every minute. I really hope the DLC is as good as the main game!

I really liked both DLC episodes, apart from the super-annoying Achievements that ask you to finish each episode without reloading the game or restarting a checkpoint.

[Grisby]

I really liked both DLC episodes, apart from the super-annoying Achievements that ask you to finish each episode without reloading the game or restarting a checkpoint.

Those are the last two cheevos I need in AW.

[Larsen B]

I really liked both DLC episodes, apart from the super-annoying Achievements that ask you to finish each episode without reloading the game or restarting a checkpoint.

My first time playing through The Signal, i wasn't trying for the achievement at all but kept managing to get through the majority of fights unscathed. I get to the very end, when you press a button and a crane lifts a stack of pallets over to you to ride over to the other side.

The pallets come over and, instead of walking onto them, I see them swinging around so I think I have to jump to make it, at which point the jump spazzes out and I miss completely, thus dying 4 metres away from the end.

I must have tried 5 times afterwards before getting that achievement.

[petethepanda]

Finally played The Writer. Short as hell, but a very good ending (if a tiny bit anticlimactic). We better get a frigging second season.

[Curufinwe]

Those are the last two cheevos I need in AW.

1400/1500 is enough for me. I'm totally Alan Waked out, unless there's a sequel.

[Skirn]

1450/1500 for me.

No Punctuation is one of the most frustrating achievements I've encountered in any game so far. I gave up of trying to get it after 7-8 tries, before it soured my whole experience of The Writer (which is fantastic and a steal for 280 space bucks). The tornado-platforming sequence can go suck an egg.

[Montresor]

I'm about to start Alan Wake for the first time. I haven't touched the game yet, but right away I am very impressed with the very cheap DLC (the Signal was free with the code that came with the game, and The Writer was only 280 msp).

I like to get as many achievements as possible in a game, so what I want to know is, How should I approach the game to make it easiest to get every achievement? I've read online that there are 17 missable achievements. I don't want to worry about any of that silliness in my first playthrough. I just wanna enjoy the game, take in the sights, and have a good time without spoiling myself by reading up on episode milestones for missable achievements. So in my first playthrough I will devote zero time to going out of my way for achievements.

What should I do?

1) First playthrough on hard, then look for collectibles and missable achievements on nightmare.

or

2) First playthrough on normal, then look for collectibles and missable achievements on hard, then play nightmare.

or

3) First playthrough on hard, then look for collectibles and missable achievements on normal, then play nightmare.

Thanks wake-gaf. =D

Also, are the collectibles achievements missable? Or are you able to backtrack to hunt those things down?

[derFeef]

Start on hard, it is much more fun that way. Normal is waaayyy too easy.
Get what you see, don't hunt, but look around for sure.

Second playthrough (If you liked the game, of course) on Nightmare then. The additional manuscript pages are not available in the lower difficulties and they provide a neat expanded look on the story.

And yeah there is stuff that is missable if you do not pay attention (like the can pyramids).

[Ledsen]

Go for Hard. There are TONS and TONS of missable achievments, so make sure to follow a guide in your second or third playthrough if you're into that. Don't look for collectibles on Nightmare, it'll probably be way too hard and annoying.

[Curufinwe]

If might be easier to not pick up any thermoses on your first playthru, because trying to follow a thermos guide on a second playthru when you've already picked up 80 of them is a total pain in the ass. Unlike the manuscript pages, the thermoses you pick up don't appear again in subsequent playthrus, so you end up wondering if you already picked up thermos #56 or if you're just looking in the wrong spot.

Finishing a second playthru of Alan Wake and still only having 99/100 thermoses despite having used a collectibles FAQ and youtube guides was really terrible. Just read my posts at the top of this page.

[Montresor]

Well I started playing on hard and it'd been pretty damn fun. The atmosphere in the game is awesome. I've picked up 4 thermoses btw but I stopped picking them up after that.

The TV shows are creepy. The whole damn game is creepy and scary lol.

[Curufinwe]

Another way to handle the thermoses is just to make note of how many you collect in each Chapter since the game doesn't do that for you. Then when you finish the game you can look at a guide and know how many are missing in each Chapter.

[Montresor]

I love getting achievements when I don't expect them. I just got more than half-a-dozen achievements within a span of 30 minutes while finishing out episode 3.

The game is a lot harder than I thought it would be. It's easy to get overwhelmed whenever there's more than two Taken after you at a time. A cool thing noticed (way too late IMO) is that whenever you point your flashlight at an enemy, its darkness health bar is represented by a circle right around the end of the flashlight's beam. The circle shrinks gradually as you damage an enemy's dark health (for lack of a better term).

I'm almost getting tired of the damn forest-y areas, but I randomly read in this thread that you leave the forest for good at the end of episode 3, and I'm just about to reach that point, so good for me.

I've got a couple of questions about missable and collectible achievements.

#1) Each episode is replayable right? In that case, how can any achievement really be missable? If I miss out on a scripted event in episode 2 for example, why don't I just reload that episode and check out that scripted event and poof, achievement unlocked? I just got the Heavy Metal achievement in episode 3 a couple of hours ago without realizing it was a missable achievement (curiosity got the better of me and I quickly cross-referenced it with a missable achievement list). If I missed out on Heavy Metal, couldn't I have just re-played episode 3? To me, a missable achievement means you have to restart a whole new playthrough.

#2) So thermoses don't re-appear in subsequent plathroughs. What about TVs and radio stations? And curfinwe, you said that manuscripts do re-appear. But will I have to re-collect every single one in any episode playthrough? Or can I just load up an episode and just hunt for the few that I missed?

[Grisby]

I love getting achievements when I don't expect them. I just got more than half-a-dozen achievements within a span of 30 minutes while finishing out episode 3. The game is a lot harder than I thought it would be. It's easy to get overwhelmed whenever there's more than two Taken after you at a time. A cool thing noticed (way too late IMO) is that whenever you point your flashlight at an enemy, its darkness health bar is represented by a circle right around the end of the flashlight's beam. The circle shrinks gradually as you damage an enemy's dark health (for lack of a better term). I'm almost getting tired of the damn forest-y areas, but I randomly read in this thread that you leave the forest for good at the end of episode 3, and I'm just about to reach that point, so good for me. I've got a couple of questions about missable and collectible achievements. #1) Each episode is replayable right? In that case, how can any achievement really be missable? If I miss out on a scripted event in episode 2 for example, why don't I just reload that episode and check out that scripted event and poof, achievement unlocked? I just got the Heavy Metal achievement in episode 3 a couple of hours ago without realizing it was a missable achievement (curiosity got the better of me and I quickly cross-referenced it with a missable achievement list). If I missed out on Heavy Metal, couldn't I have just re-played episode 3? To me, a missable achievement means you have to restart a whole new playthrough. #2) So thermoses don't re-appear in subsequent plathroughs. What about TVs and radio stations? And curfinwe, you said that manuscripts do re-appear. But will I have to re-collect every single one in any episode playthrough? Or can I just load up an episode and just hunt for the few that I missed?

1) Yes, each episode is repayable. None of the achievements are really missable but there are some that happen at the beginning of a level and go to a certain section. Like going through a place in a certain amount of time, etc.

2) Er, yeah I don't think Thermos reappear but TV stations and stuff do. The pages come back but you can just hunt for the ones you missed. You'll see that you got it when the little save icon appears. Some pages only show up on Nightmare mode.

[Curufinwe]

I love getting achievements when I don't expect them. I just got more than half-a-dozen achievements within a span of 30 minutes while finishing out episode 3. The game is a lot harder than I thought it would be. It's easy to get overwhelmed whenever there's more than two Taken after you at a time. A cool thing noticed (way too late IMO) is that whenever you point your flashlight at an enemy, its darkness health bar is represented by a circle right around the end of the flashlight's beam. The circle shrinks gradually as you damage an enemy's dark health (for lack of a better term).

I never noticed that. :0

[derFeef]

I never noticed that. :0

That is a key element of the gameplay. You really need that little thing on Nightmare sometimes to see which enemy is the closest one you can start shooting. Wonder why people do not notice this, it is mentioned in the tutorial even :)

[Shake Appeal]

Yeah, it also shows up as orange when your current light source isn't strong enough to harm the enemy (i.e. you need to focus the beam).

[Ledsen]

I love getting achievements when I don't expect them. I just got more than half-a-dozen achievements within a span of 30 minutes while finishing out episode 3. The game is a lot harder than I thought it would be. It's easy to get overwhelmed whenever there's more than two Taken after you at a time. A cool thing noticed (way too late IMO) is that whenever you point your flashlight at an enemy, its darkness health bar is represented by a circle right around the end of the flashlight's beam. The circle shrinks gradually as you damage an enemy's dark health (for lack of a better term). I'm almost getting tired of the damn forest-y areas, but I randomly read in this thread that you leave the forest for good at the end of episode 3, and I'm just about to reach that point, so good for me. I've got a couple of questions about missable and collectible achievements. #1) Each episode is replayable right? In that case, how can any achievement really be missable? If I miss out on a scripted event in episode 2 for example, why don't I just reload that episode and check out that scripted event and poof, achievement unlocked? I just got the Heavy Metal achievement in episode 3 a couple of hours ago without realizing it was a missable achievement (curiosity got the better of me and I quickly cross-referenced it with a missable achievement list). If I missed out on Heavy Metal, couldn't I have just re-played episode 3? To me, a missable achievement means you have to restart a whole new playthrough. #2) So thermoses don't re-appear in subsequent plathroughs. What about TVs and radio stations? And curfinwe, you said that manuscripts do re-appear. But will I have to re-collect every single one in any episode playthrough? Or can I just load up an episode and just hunt for the few that I missed?

Well to be honest, when I say "missable" I meant that you'll have to replay large sections of the game to get them if you don't the first time around. I hate that and that's why I call them missable :P

[ToyMachine228]

I'm currently playing through The Writer right now. Enjoying it. One thing I'd like to see Remedy do for Alan Wake 2 however, is tighten the controls up a tad. I'd also like to see them find ways to add more gameplay variety. The world they've created is great. I think they just need to give us a bit more gameplay variety within the great box they've created.

[Montresor]

The controls are okay. But there are two design decisions I don't like. Does the game ever even use the Y button? It was a silly idea to make LB the dodge button. It's very difficult to perform a dodge when you're already holding LT for the focus beam action. Second, the camera sensitivity is HORRDENOUS in a vehicle! Eff that shit man!

[ToyMachine228]

The controls are okay. But there are two design decisions I don't like. Does the game ever even use the Y button? It was a silly idea to make LB the dodge button. It's very difficult to perform a dodge when you're already holding LT for the focus beam action. Second, the camera sensitivity is HORRDENOUS in a vehicle! Eff that shit man!

Isn't Y the switch battery button? The bit about the controls that bothers me is the movement controls. When you're walking over a log or something your character slides all over the place. I guess it's more of a physics thing than a controls thing.

[SimonM7]

The controls are okay. But there are two design decisions I don't like. Does the game ever even use the Y button? It was a silly idea to make LB the dodge button. It's very difficult to perform a dodge when you're already holding LT for the focus beam action. Second, the camera sensitivity is HORRDENOUS in a vehicle! Eff that shit man!

You'd rather not be able to aim while you dodge? That makes no sense.

[Montresor]

You'd rather not be able to aim while you dodge? That makes no sense.

No, I do want to be able to aim while I dodge. But you can barely do that in Alan Wake. Whenever I need to dodge, I've got my trigger finger firmly pressed down on LT. And it's very difficult to push the LB button in such a scenario. I'd rather the dodge button be a stick click.

I'll say that I love this game so far. The episodes are crazy long in a satisfying way. I keep thinking a level is gonna end but there's always more pick-ups and more enemies and another corner to fight through.

[SimonM7]

LT has nothing to do with your aim and you shouldn't be using it constantly (although lower difficulty settings make conserving batteries less important). Pressing LB leaves your right thumb completely free to aim wherever you want as Alan stumbles in the direction you hold the left stick.

Time the dodge just right and it'll go into slow motion for a second, giving you an abundance of time to simultaniously spin the aim around and get back to the flashlight boosting right up in the attacker's grill. Once you come out of slow motion you can usually blast the dude away with a shotgun.

[Montresor]

LT has nothing to do with your aim and you shouldn't be using it constantly (although lower difficulty settings make conserving batteries less important). Pressing LB leaves your right thumb completely free to aim wherever you want as Alan stumbles in the direction you hold the left stick. Time the dodge just right and it'll go into slow motion for a second, giving you an abundance of time to simultaniously spin the aim around and get back to the flashlight boosting right up in the attacker's grill. Once you come out of slow motion you can usually blast the dude away with a shotgun.

Well, I suck at dodging with the LB button. Let's chalk it up to me just not gelling well with that LB button at all. I didn't even get the dodge achievement until close to the end of the game. I fiddled around with the options menu and there's an alternate control scheme that maps battery refill to Y and sprint/dodge to X. Sounds good, except the same alternate scheme moves reload to RB and flares to Y. I am way too used to frantically mashing/holding RB whenever I'm in trouble for a flare or flashbang. It's my safe button. I'll stick with the regular control scheme and just practice getting better at dodging with LB.



In other news, I beat the game on hard, and wow what a beautiful experience. This is one of the coolest games I've played on the 360. However... I don't think I want to play it again right away ( even though there's TONS of work left to 1500 this game). I love the game, but at the same time, I'm a big softie and my heart just can't take always being on edge. You are never safe in this game. It's always dark, and around every corner there's always the possibility you'll get ambushed or something will jump out at you from around the corner. The game was an absolutely exhilirating experience. Like I said you almost never, ever feel safe. In the late stages of the game, you're not some super strong protagonist with double armour and twice the health and upgraded weapons. Your arsenal is always limited to primitive light weapons (flashbangs, lantern, flare) and two itty bitty guns with just enough ammo to get you through. You're always just a regular guy.

The atmosphere in the game always had my heartbeat up. The music played a big part here. Freaking sudden super scary orchestra kicking in whenever a monster is jumping at me.

I loved this game, but I wanna play something with super funtime bright colours, lol. I think I need to put in Banjo Nuts N Bolts or some other game to rest my heart. :lol

[Montresor]

How do I use the extras/playback list to help myself find all the radios? The stats page says I have found 9 out of 11 radio shows. If I go to the playback screen, it shows 12 radio broadcasts.

Episode 1 (2 broadcasts found)

http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/r...2/63635010.jpg

Episode 2 (2 broadcasts found)

http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/r...2/b51c67d2.jpg

Episode 3 (4 broadcasts found)

http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/r...2/b438e873.jpg

Episode 4 (4 broadcasts found)

http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/r...2/9698c8ba.jpg

That makes a total of 12 radio stations in my playback list, even though I've only collected 9, and even though there are only 11 total in the game. This would be easy if I could at least find a damned list online that provided the title of the actual radio show in every episode...

Also, why dont these radio stations play any audio when I select them in the playback menu?

edit: Well I found a really good radio show list that has radio show names. Now it shouldn't be hard at all to find the radios. Oh well.

[BreakyBoy]

I'm surprised I never linked this here. I recorded my last playthrough of Alan Wake as I was going for the 1500/1500. I'd already retrieved most of the thermoses, so it won't be much help there. The manuscript pages are marked though, and all link back to the moment in the playthrough where I pick them up. That should help with the manuscripts you're missing, if any.

Nightmare Difficulty Playthrough
Manuscript Pages
Radio Clips

[Montresor]

I'm surprised I never linked this here. I recorded my last playthrough of Alan Wake as I was going for the 1500/1500. I'd already retrieved most of the thermoses, so it won't be much help there. The manuscript pages are marked though, and all link back to the moment in the playthrough where I pick them up. That should help with the manuscripts you're missing, if any. Nightmare Difficulty Playthrough Manuscript Pages Radio Clips

You are meticulous in the most awesome way possible. You've just been sub'd.

[Montresor]

I finally got every single little collectible (chests, signs, normal mode manuscripts, thermoses, etc...). Now I just have the DLC and nightmare mode left to do. And I'm afraid of starting nightmare mode hah, the game was making me jump every five minutes of game play on both hard mode (first playthrough) and normal mode (collectible playthrough)... Can't imagine the tension my heart will go through on nightmare. =0

I don't know if I should tackle the DLC first, and then nightmare mode, or the other way around.

[Nekofrog]

Just started this game, knowing next to nothing about it (I know it's horror-themed).

gotta say, after one episode I really can't stand this game. The screen tearing is hideously present at almost every second during the game (direct download version).

[Montresor]

I just completed the second DLC pack, "The Writer," and now I'm at 1300/1500. All I have left are the hard-ass achievements: beat nightmare, get nightmare manuscripts, No-Punctation and Run-On-Sentence.

I'm in love with this game. It's easily one of my top five favourite 360 games. I think as a psychological thriller and a survival horror game, Alan Wake is a masterful experience. The atmosphere was always filled with razor sharp tension. A couple of my favourite moments (or not so favourite moments, depending on how heavy my heart is) are the following sequences:

1) When viewing a television show in a shack in the fifth episode, Alan Wake kept abruptly turning his head and looking to his left. It kept scaring the hell out of me. Whenever he did it, I swung my flashlight as fast as I humanly could to the left and there was always nothing there. I don't know if Wake always does that or if it was programmed specifically just for that TV show, but I never noticed Wake's head-turning in any other moment in the game.

2) In the third episode, I was on the bottom floor of a three-story wooden cabin. I had been walking for quite a bit in said cabin and became accustomed to the sound of the heavy, thudding footsteps Wake was making as he explored inside. At one point I stopped moving, and I yet I heard the thud of heavy footsteps persisting throughout the cabin. I had triggered a spawn of Taken enemies right when I stopped moving. This moment terrified the fuck out of me.

3) I can't remember the chapter, but I was in a suburban house with all the works, a kitchen, bedrooms, a living room, etc... It was completely pitch dark inside the house. Whenever I swung my flashlight across a window I could've sworn there was a Taken outside. Whenever that happened I would quickly swing my flashlight back to the window and I'd see there was nothing there. I'd love to know if they ever programmed brief "hallucinations" like that to simulate your eyes playing tricks on you at night.

I think the game did an excellent job of always keeping you on edge, whether it was with brief and subtle moments like I described above, or by having a lamplight flicker out of commission as you approached it, or by having a Taken jump out at you around a corner, etc... The music made the scary atmosphere doubly intense. My heart would always jump whenever the "horror orchestra" would kick in at the apperance of a new Taken. And I loved it (and hated it at the same time, hah), just loved it when certain sequences of the game were drenched in suffocating darkness, with very little moonlight or absolutely no external source of light. When it's pitch black and your flashlight is the only thing lighting your path, it amplifies the feeling of terror.

Other things I loved about the game:

1) I like the presentation, how the story unfolds as if Alan Wake was a television series. Each episode starts with a "previously on Alan Wake" sequence, and each episode ends with the same cutscene, presenting a TV show logo with "Alan Wake" written in giant letters and a graphic of Wake himself always looking around with his flashlight. And there's also the end-of-episode songs, my favourite of which is "No I Don't Remember" at the end of The Signal. I love just sitting there listening to an epic song at the end of an episode.

2) The creative level design in the two DLC packs really surprised me. I like that they didn't just make another cookie-cutter episode for the sake of it. They really pulled off some awesome new sequences in the DLC, from the bad word mine field, to the TV boss fight, to the rotating bridge/elevator sequence, and so on.

3) I adored Zane's voice and his cute little Bioshock outfit. Whenever I saw the guy and heard him speak, my heart would melt. <3

Overall, I loved the game. I'm determined to 1500 this one...

[Minamu]

Nightmare and the manuscripts should be the easiest of those achievements :) Only real way to experience something close to real horror imho. The other two are a pain in the ass, sometimes beyond words.

And it's an old diving suit :)

[teraMEL0S]

Love this game! Can't wait for the next Remedy project (Alan Wake 2)! I will be sad if I'm wrong. Let's hope the new facial animation tech goes to good use!

[Tokubetsu]

Love this game! Can't wait for the next Remedy project (Alan Wake 2)! I will be sad if I'm wrong. Let's hope the new facial animation tech goes to good use!

Yea, I'll be extremely disappointed if their next game isn't Alan Wake 2 and if it isn't pretty close to this game.

[PatrickLyons]

Yea, I'll be extremely disappointed if their next game isn't Alan Wake 2 and if it isn't pretty close to this game.

nah. they should take a break from alan while they collect good ideas. I'm ready for a new max payne game, if they think that story has anything left to tell. plus max isn't quite as irritating as alan.

[CrazedArabMan]

nah. they should take a break from alan while they collect good ideas. I'm ready for a new max payne game, if they think that story has anything left to tell. plus max isn't quite as irritating as alan.

Rockstar has you covered, well Old Max Payne that is, AW2 has so much potential to be one of the best games this generation based off of the best game of last year AW1. :D

[alterno69]

Been playing this game on and off since december last year, i really like the story and atmosphere but the combat really turns me off. Way too many shooting, i like my horror games Silent Hill style, paeticularly SH2 style, very little combat in that game. I fucking hate the flying stuff too like train parts. Anyone else feel the game would be better with less combat and more exploration? Maybe cut the combat in half IMO.
I think i'm cñose tp the end i'm just past the meeting with the kidnaper at the mine where he never shows up

[Quicksilver4648]

i'm just past the meeting with the kidnaper at the mine where he never shows up

I don't really consider this a spoiler, but I don't want to risk it. This isn't storyline related.
There are six episodes in this game. (not including DLC) You still have a bit of a way to go. I recommend the DLC if you continue to feel interested after completion.

Also, I don't really consider this to be a horror game. It does have some horror-type elements at times, but, Remedy describes it as a thriller and I feel that is a better description.