[J Tourettes]

THIS. If you invest even 20% of the money in the central line ( East to West London), you will be able to accomodate the extra capacity. Im fed up of seeing exposed wires, and half finished repairs all over the tube Because TFL dont have enough money to spend their way out of a pretty poor situation after metronet colapsed. At the moment the fares go up yearly and the service actually gets worse with all the closures and overcrowding. How about spending some crossrail money on an established system that can use the money rather than a vanity project that may or may not be needed.

I'm far from convinced by it and as you say, investing money in the central line instead would have many of the same benefits.

[Nicktendo86]

Some very good stuff there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8693832.stm

[Salazar]

Police to publish detailed local crime statistics every month.

This isn't necessarily an awesome idea.

[Jexhius]

This isn't necessarily an awesome idea.

It sounds like they haven't watched The Wire.

[Salazar]

It sounds like they haven't watched The Wire.

Fuck, you could apprehend the downside of statistical monitoring by watching reruns of The Bill.

[kitch9]

And you seem to ignore the fact that they have a right to strike if they feel unfairly treated. Pilot's Union can do what it likes, that's it's own affair. Just because they debate the decision doesn't make them right, just because BA hate it (why wouldn't they?) doesn't make them right, hell just because Unite are doing it doesn't make them right. But you're implying that striking is inherently wrong, it's not, it's a workers right against management if they feel unfairly treated. How exactly are Cabin Crew unskilled? Do you have any idea as to what these people have to be trained to do? They're no longer sky waiters you know. All that health and safety crap before the flight? Actions in the event of a crash, unruly passengers, terrorist incidents are all part of the program now, especially at a company like BA. You say Unite don't give a fuck about the company? Well seems to me Walsh and BA don't give a fuck about their workers. They're a disgrace. Why doesn't Walsh resign for his crap handling of this mess? He's been insinuating that the Union members actually don't want the strike (they do), that BA will go bust because of it (it won't, ash cloud) and that somehow he's this Union breaking superhero (he's not, he's a rich arsehole). The rulings smack of a deal between walsh and the courts, they're rediculous technicalities that no sensible person would even countenance as truly legitimate for ruling a properly balloted and democratically voted for strike illegal. Walsh and BA are desperately buying time and trying to stall the process enough to exhaust the Union members. I hope and pray it doesn't work. You want your workers not to strike? Sit down and talk properly to get a deal. Walsh and BA haven't done that. Militancy on both sides is costing the company, Brown was right not to get involved in this, and I'm sorry to the rest of the thread if this is shitting it up, but the way you sir have seemingly celebrated and delighted in the rulings against Unions angers me greatly. Like I said, one day, the management will come for you too. They always do.

I think they'd better ask the miners how it worked out for them........

BA is blowing money left right and centre at the minute, and the fucking staff need to grow a pair and accept they are part of the fucking problem IN A BIG way at the moment.....

Only a retard would book with BA at the minute they way their staff are behaving......

I know they have a right to strike, but they are not the only employees being asked to help out for the good of a company as times are hard for everybody at the minute..... They come across as a bunch of whinging cunts TBH..... When BA no longer exists what will they strike against them?

[SmokyDave]

I'm desperately trying to shoehorn in Dixon Of Dock Green.

[Salazar]

Or Heartbeat. The file on Greengrass's mischief would need a supercomputer to store and classify.

We've both been around the block, Ventriss. You know an ASBO can't hold me.

[Sage00]

1922 changes vote went through!

[Dark Machine]

I think they'd better ask the miners how it worked out for them........ BA is blowing money left right and centre at the minute, and the fucking staff need to grow a pair and accept they are part of the fucking problem IN A BIG way at the moment..... Only a retard would book with BA at the minute they way their staff are behaving...... I know they have a right to strike, but they are not the only employees being asked to help out for the good of a company as times are hard for everybody at the minute..... They come across as a bunch of whinging cunts TBH..... When BA no longer exists what will they strike against them?

BA was a shite airline before the crisis and the ash cloud and everything else. The airline isn't in trouble just because of the cabin crew, its management have been crap for years and now they've turned militant because they won't sit down and talk things out properly. The 'talks' that have happened so far have consisted of:

"OK we don't want to take this big pay cut, allowance cut and extra hours. Lets make a deal."

"You have our offer."

"Yes but we know we won't get everything we want, but we cannot accept your offer, we need a compromise."

"You have our offer."

"....are you here to negotiate at all?"

"You have our offer."

"...." *walk out*

Walsh and BA come across as the whiny punks to me, they're flights were overpriced and the management made big foul ups that meant the airline wasn't very profitable before. Anyone remember 'Go' airlines?

Also the injunction was overturned on appeal. Just heard on the World at One.

[PJV3]

B.A and the union have an agreement on pay and conditions, the trouble is about B.A punishing 50 union activists and removal of travel perks to anybody who took part in the last strike.
Independant experts on industrial relations say B.A are acting like arseholes.

[iapetus]

Independant experts on industrial relations say B.A are acting like arseholes.

And off the record they just drop the 'acting like'.

[avaya]

How can anyone have sympathy for Unite?

Some simple realisations

1. Low cost carriers have broken the airline business model. It is a race to the bottom. We are actually looking at a structural market failure in the near future.

2. BA staff are paid much better than the industry average. This is one of the reasons for their impossible situation. The company HAS to cut.

3. You take your pay cut, still getting paid better than the average or you act like a retard. Acting like a retard leads to the airline struggling to turn itself around. There is very little to negotiate about. BA has to cut costs FAST and HARD.

Cutting of your nose to spite your face tactics.

They should be grateful they even have jobs given the state of the company.

[JonathanEx]

BA might be arses, but four weeks of five day strikes? That'll make you really popular in the negotiating room and in public.

[PJV3]

How can anyone have sympathy for Unite? Some simple realisations 1. Low cost carriers have broken the airline business model. It is a race to the bottom. We are actually looking at a structural market failure in the near future. 2. BA staff are paid much better than the industry average. This is one of the reasons for their impossible situation. The company HAS to cut. 3. You take your pay cut, still getting paid better than the average or you act like a retard. Acting like a retard leads to the airline struggling to turn itself around. There is very little to negotiate about. BA has to cut costs FAST and HARD. Cutting of your nose to spite your face tactics. They should be grateful they even have jobs given the state of the company.

That's the stupid thing about this, they do have agreement on pay and conditions.
This is about management punishing workers for striking, it's pathetic.

More 1922 fun

A number of MPs, headed by the previous 1922 secretary Christopher Chope, are planning to challenge the surprisingly close result, and have not ruled out legal action.
They point out that:

1. The difference between the winners and losers is more than bridged by members of the government (who they point out are not entitled to vote according to the current rules of the committee).

2. There were 23 proxy votes (where MPs were unable to attend and asked whips to vote for them), 15 of whom were government members. According to the current rules of the 1922 Committee, proxy votes are not permitted

The consevative blogs and message boards are a hoot at the moment.

[brain_stew]

1922 changes vote went through!

So who's taking bets on when the first bunch of loonies break off from the main party? There's got to be some seriously pissed off backbench Tories by now. Hats off to Cameron though for maginalising the crazies from mainstream politics.

[kitch9]

But it's been mooted that it would have an effect on foodstuffs has it not? In my own crazy world there'd be a one-off 80% tax on the country's highest earning or something like that. Would be interesting to see what that would do to the deficit.

Fuck all, as you would assume people with money would have some kind of intelligence and leave the country and go work somewhere else to avoid it........

The country would just be left with the skint uneducated masses wondering who's going to pay their giro's.....

[Deadman]

Not sure how many good things they have done since coming to power, but add another one:

The extradition of the computer hacker Gary McKinnon has been put on hold after the home secretary, Theresa May, agreed to an adjournment of a judicial review that was supposed to start within days. The move will allow May to begin formal consideration of the medical evidence to see whether McKinnon is fit to be extradited. If it is established that he cannot be allowed to go, it paves the way for a prosecution in the UK. A Home Office spokesperson said: "The home secretary has considered the proposal from Gary McKinnon's legal team and has agreed an adjournment should be sought. An application to the court is being made today."

More here

[DECK'ARD]

Does seem Cameron is making full-use of the Lib Dem coalition as his Clause 4 moment and forcing the party to the centre. For the first time, Cameron is looking like he genuinely does want change and to change his party.

Dare I say it, I'm impressed by both sides of the coalition so far.

[SmokyDave]

Not sure how many good things they have done since coming to power, but add another one: More here

Nice!

Go new government. Now put him to work keeping our essential records safe.

[FabCam]

How can anyone have sympathy for Unite? Some simple realisations 1. Low cost carriers have broken the airline business model. It is a race to the bottom. We are actually looking at a structural market failure in the near future. 2. BA staff are paid much better than the industry average. This is one of the reasons for their impossible situation. The company HAS to cut. 3. You take your pay cut, still getting paid better than the average or you act like a retard. Acting like a retard leads to the airline struggling to turn itself around. There is very little to negotiate about. BA has to cut costs FAST and HARD. Cutting of your nose to spite your face tactics. They should be grateful they even have jobs given the state of the company.

This will probably be the first and last time I agree with you my friend :lol

Cabin crew are acting like whiny fucks. They should be happy to have a job, let alone be grossly overpaid for it. If they're not careful the cabin crew are going to strike themselves out of a job.

Also, it seems fair that they lose their travel perks. BA perks are really incredible such as free first class flights, cheaper tickets for friends etc. The management made it explicitly clear that those who go on strike will lose these perks. Now they start complaining about it. Fuck unite. I applaud Walsh for trying to stick up to a union that has far too much power.

[avaya]

That's the stupid thing about this, they do have agreement on pay and conditions. This is about management punishing workers for striking, it's pathetic.

OK punishment for striking is not acceptable, however the length of the strike seems very disproportionate. This seems much more personal than simple labour rights.

This will probably be the first and last time I agree with you my friend :lol

There tend to only be a very few (yet decisive) issues that people disagree about ;)

[curls]

This will probably be the first and last time I agree with you my friend :lol Cabin crew are acting like whiny fucks. They should be happy to have a job, let alone be grossly overpaid for it. If they're not careful the cabin crew are going to strike themselves out of a job. Also, it seems fair that they lose their travel perks. BA perks are really incredible such as free first class flights, cheaper tickets for friends etc. The management made it explicitly clear that those who go on strike will lose these perks. Now they start complaining about it. Fuck unite. I applaud Walsh for trying to stick up to a union that has far too much power.

Walsh himself seems grossly overpaid.

[PJV3]

Walsh is a hypocrite.

Early life

Walsh was born in Dublin, Ireland. He attended his local secondary school Ardscoil Rís. At the age of 17, he became a pilot at Irish flag carrier Aer Lingus, joining as a cadet in 1979. During his time as a pilot he acted as chief negotiator for the Irish Airline Pilots Association (IALPA) and is quoted during this time that "a reasonable man gets nowhere in negotiations".

Anyhow this is the UK politcs thread, so i shall leave it there.

[D4Danger]

Not sure how many good things they have done since coming to power, but add another one: More here

that's great. It was shameful how they were treating him.

[Salazar]

The Abbott candidacy has potential for epic comedy and profound irritation.

"They do audience research and This Week has the highest audience appreciation of any political programme," she says proudly. "The next most favourite of those who liked our show was Midsomer Murders. I can relate to Middle England."

Substitute Middle England for an insult of your selection.

[PJV3]

The Abbott candidacy has potential for epic comedy and profound irritation. Substitute Middle England for an insult of your selection.

Yeah i saw that, nobody could work out what the hell she was on about.

[J Tourettes]

Walsh is a hypocrite. Early life Walsh was born in Dublin, Ireland. He attended his local secondary school Ardscoil Rís. At the age of 17, he became a pilot at Irish flag carrier Aer Lingus, joining as a cadet in 1979. During his time as a pilot he acted as chief negotiator for the Irish Airline Pilots Association (IALPA) and is quoted during this time that "a reasonable man gets nowhere in negotiations". Anyhow this is the UK politcs thread, so i shall leave it there.

Sounds like he's being true to his word to me.

[brain_stew]

The Abbott candidacy has potential for epic comedy and profound irritation. Substitute Middle England for an insult of your selection.

I was watching that last and like both Portillo and Andrew neil (and probably anyone else watching) my head was spinning in circles afterwards. She made no sense at all, it looked embarassing.

[operon]

I don't no how unite think they can get any sympathy, fair enough they shouldn't be punished for striking but they have the best pay among airlines, perhaps they should try working at ryanair and see how long they last

[Atrophis]

Not sure how many good things they have done since coming to power, but add another one: More here

Awesome news! The way this man has been treated is pretty disgusting.

[jas0nuk]

How can anyone have sympathy for Unite? Some simple realisations 1. Low cost carriers have broken the airline business model. It is a race to the bottom. We are actually looking at a structural market failure in the near future. 2. BA staff are paid much better than the industry average. This is one of the reasons for their impossible situation. The company HAS to cut. 3. You take your pay cut, still getting paid better than the average or you act like a retard. Acting like a retard leads to the airline struggling to turn itself around. There is very little to negotiate about. BA has to cut costs FAST and HARD. Cutting of your nose to spite your face tactics. They should be grateful they even have jobs given the state of the company.

Probably the first political/economical post you've written that I fully agree with.

This morning they posted losses of half a billion pounds and now because of these strikes they're having to cope with 1) instantaneously lost customers during the strike itself and 2) future lost customers due to the damage done to their credibility and record of reliability.

All Unite are doing here is helping kill BA. They won't be happy until they do.

[Dambrosi]

Probably the first political/economical post you've written that I fully agree with. This morning they posted losses of half a billion pounds and now because of these strikes they're having to cope with 1) instantaneously lost customers during the strike itself and 2) future lost customers due to the damage done to their credibility and record of reliability. All Unite are doing here is helping kill BA. They won't be happy until they do.

Seems like the Socialist Workers' Party wants to help them out.

Talks between British Airways and union leaders were brought to an abrupt end when protesters stormed the meeting. Dozens [The Daily Mail said "two hundred"] of demonstrators from the Socialist Workers Party breached security at the London offices of the conciliation service Acas. It is not known how much progress was made in the last-ditch talks aimed at averting strikes by cabin crew. The latest strikes follow a long-running dispute over jobs, pay and working conditions. The two sides sat around the negotiating table for more five hours on Saturday before the protesters interrupted the meeting. More than 100 demonstrators gathered outside the building, saying they were there to show solidarity with BA cabin crew. Banners and shouting Those who made it to the 23rd floor, where the talks were taking place, came face to face with BA chief executive Willie Walsh and Tony Woodley, joint leader of Unite. Mr Woodley angrily remonstrated with the protesters telling them to "shut up". The talks had to be abandoned amid scenes of chaos and Mr Walsh had to be escorted by police from the building. The protesters, many holding up Socialist Workers Party banners, stayed in the building until they were ejected by police officers. Acas Chief Executive John Taylor said no-one was injured and the parties left the building safely. "It was disappointing that talks broke up in this way and we are already in touch with the parties to endeavour to restart the discussions," he said. "On a wider issue, we will also obviously be reviewing security arrangements."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/10140911.stm

The Fail called it a "Twitter Riot" in tomorrow's cover story. All I'll say on the matter is: :lol @ BA & UNITE both, what a bunch of tools.

Oh and the SWP are being morons as usual, but that surely goes without saying, yeah?

[Mr. Sam]

The Socialist Workers Party has two hundred members? Pfft.

[louis89]

When does Prime Minister's Questions come back?

[iapetus]

Probably the first political/economical post you've written that I fully agree with. This morning they posted losses of half a billion pounds and now because of these strikes they're having to cope with 1) instantaneously lost customers during the strike itself and 2) future lost customers due to the damage done to their credibility and record of reliability. All Unite are doing here is helping kill BA. They won't be happy until they do.

You can make the same claim about BA. What Unite are asking for is actually pretty reasonable and wouldn't cost BA a huge amount as I understand it. They've made the compromises required on the major issues - now it's largely a battle of wills over the right of BA to punish people for exercising their legally protected rights to strike.

[Kentpaul]

Seems like cameron wants people to live miserable lifes , by forcing them into a job they don't want or have there benifits cut

[Subliminal]

Why cut the Child trust fund? It was a fantastic scheme.

[SmokyDave]

Seems like cameron wants people to live miserable lifes , by forcing them into a job they don't want or have there benifits cut

Good.

[J Tourettes]

Seems like cameron wants people to live miserable lifes , by forcing them into a job they don't want or have there benifits cut

Poor bastards. Imagine having to do a job you hate in order to earn money.

[Kentpaul]

Poor bastards. Imagine having to do a job you hate in order to earn money.

I my self have no job but fuck working in a dark facotry from 2pm till 10pm every day of the week exluded from the world

I can only do outdoor work , i fucking hate this new goverment , all it cares about is the top scale of the upper class.

[Meadows]

I my self have no job but fuck working in a dark facotry from 2pm till 10pm every day of the week exluded from the world I can only do outdoor work , i fucking hate this new goverment , all it cares about is the top scale of the upper class.

At this point, I'd fucking take that job. There are LITERALLY NO JOBS here in York, I've applied for 15 minimum wage slave retail/petrol station jobs and only received one REJECTION, let alone any acceptances.

God, the situation here is so fucked up. I hope the new government can do something.

[SmokyDave]

I my self have no job but fuck working in a dark facotry from 2pm till 10pm every day of the week exluded from the world I can only do outdoor work , i fucking hate this new goverment , all it cares about is the top scale of the upper class.

Fine. As long as you don't mind us saying "Fuck feeding your lazy ass if you won't work in a dark factory".

I don't like my job. I do because I have to (and because I'm too old to have the retarded entitlement complexes so common today).

[phisheep]

When does Prime Minister's Questions come back?

Next week.

[Kentpaul]

Fine. As long as you don't mind us saying "Fuck feeding your lazy ass if you won't work in a dark factory". I don't like my job. I do because I have to (and because I'm too old to have the retarded entitlement complexes so common today).

I'd take an outdoor job (Grass cutting) in a heart beat but now i could be forced to take any job going (Thus making me sad and dread waking up in the morning basicly ruining my entire life, fuck that shit i hope i'm in a job before this new rule in enforced.

[iapetus]

I'd take an outdoor job (Grass cutting) in a heart beat but now i could be forced to take any job going (Thus making me sad and dread waking up in the morning basicly ruining my entire life, fuck that shit i hope i'm in a job before this new rule in enforced.

So you'll be doubly motivated to find another job so you can quit, I guess.

[SmokyDave]

I'd take an outdoor job (Grass cutting) in a heart beat but now i could be forced to take any job going (Thus making me sad and dread waking up in the morning basicly ruining my entire life, fuck that shit i hope i'm in a job before this new rule in enforced.

I do a job I hate, so do most of the people I know. That's life. I do something I'm good at purely because I'm good at it and it pays the bills. I have no emotional or spiritual investment in my job whatsoever. It's not a vocation, it's an obligation.

Even so, I'd feel better about myself doing a job I hate than I would if I was leeching off the system with employment available.

[operon]

Everyone pretty much hates their jobs, but we get on with it as we don't want to be a leech or a parasite on our fellow working class, plus we have to much self respect to allow ourselves to become a bum

[Kentpaul]

So you'll be doubly motivated to find another job so you can quit, I guess.

In this day in age its no longer a case or "work or starve to death" and with very few bills to my name i can get past on job seakers funding to get me past. But FORCING people to work and if they refuse cutting there funding is legal murder

[Meadows]

In this day in age its no longer a case or "work or starve to death" and with very few bills to my name i can get past on job seakers funding to get me past. But FORCING people to work and if they refuse cutting there funding is legal murder

Don't want to judge, but if everyone had that attitude, you'd be dead on your lazy arse. I'm a full time student that would kill for a minimum wage 16 hour a week job at a petrol station as a cleaner for fucks sake. Get off your arse.