[RoboPlato]

Isn't that exactly what MGS4 did though? None of things I mentioned were explained in any way that was buyable.(The exception being EVA, although I'm more pissed off at her being completely devoid of character) Big Boss died. His ass burned to death MG2. In MGS1 they're simply going after his remains. The explanation they use in MGs4 as to how he's still alive makes no sense as it assumes that even though snake watched his ass burn to the ground, zero(And if going by the MGS4 backstory this doesn't even make any sense as zero would've already been a vegetable as he is in the end of the game) he somehow still managed to be retrieved and saved by zero. I don't think I even have to explain the meryl/johnny situation to prove how completely random and unbelievable that whole situation was.

Like I said, I know I'm totally in the minority on this one. I can't really think of a better way to describe it than I already have but it seems like a different kind of situation to me. I love the whole series and am just surprised 2's story gets less hate than 4's. Both are the weakest story-wise of the series in my mind but I enjoyed 4's a bit more.

[Dr. Acid Avatar]

I drove to pick this game up on day one after having four wisdom teeth pulled. Any normal man would have stayed home but this was MGS4 and it was worth it. Fuck the haters.

[EmCeeGramr]

to this day i can't tell which is worse, the naomi death scene or big boss' stupid magic exposition filled 1-hour-long revival


i mean, naomi's scene is all around retarded

-She blames herself for... Vamp? Because she did work on nanomachines as a biologist (and probably did a lot of good work for medicine), but because Vamp is some crazy second-gen stuff derived from her work, she's all upset to the point of suicide. Which is dumb, because she's been portrayed as being stronger than Otacon, whose work on REX is pretty much the cause of all the world-endangering war and shit going on for the last nine years. And Otacon's a fucking pussy, too.

-"OH BTW I HAVE CANCER"

wait what where the fuck did this shit come from

"NOW I'LL KILL MYSELF WITH ANTI-ANTI-CANCER NANOMACHINES"

wait you have anti-cancer nanomachines

Snake: Hey Naomi, can you fix my bad back, graying hair, and worsening eyesight?
Naomi: No fucking way, I'm not a goddamned magician, Snake!
Snake: How about the artificial virus you created (and even had a vaccine for)? Can't you-
Naomi: Nope, sorry!
Snake: ...okay, say I had goddamned cancer.
Naomi: I GOTS THE CURE RIGHT HERE

-how the fuck do these anti-cancer nanomachines work? are they all holding their collective nano-fingers on a giant "NO CANCER" button? because otherwise I'm not sure how the fuck destroying them makes you instantly die of cancer

-the entire scene is meant to be very dramatic and moving, but kojima somehow didn't realize that it doesn't quite work when it's a woman stabbing herself in the neck with a syringe for no reason while two men stare and do nothing. meanwhile a toy robot on rollerskates is dancing around, and on its screen is a giant wimp sobbing and probably dripping snot like a 10yo child

-"Snake, I have no more tears. I'll never cry again."

five minutes later

"SNAKE MY HATSUNE MIKU FIGURINE BROKE *cries about how he's left alone again*"

-the best way to immediately follow a "moving" death scene is to get into a giant robot and shoot missiles and a cock laser and then have a giant robot battle

-the entire reason you're there is because metal gear rex never had its warhead removed. even though the island was cleaned up and under military control ever since the shadow moses incident. but for some reason they never touched the walking nuclear death-mobile. that somehow is the ONLY nuclear weapon on earth that isn't controlled by the Patriots.






on the other hand, the Big Boss scene has a football to the groin

[mr_nothin]

I hated two and despised three. Four was good. Not great. But good.

It's your kind of ppl that messed up MGS4 for the rest of us!

[onemic]

Fair enough. I can see how someone would find the controls in three to be annoying. They are not the most user friendly controls out there. MGS4 really improved on that and has the best gameplay in the series really. To bad there's not enough of it.

Better gameplay than MGS3? crazy.(Talking about the definitive subsistence version of course)

[Rahxephon91]

Better gameplay than MGS3? crazy.(Talking about the definitive subsistence version of course)

It really does. MGS3 is still better and probably the best MGS game. But there is nothing awkward about the way MGS4 controls. The shooting mechanics feel so right and the camo system is obviously better.

[TheSeks]

I didn't mind Meryl and Johnny getting together. I mean, it answers what Otakcon/Hal asked Snake/Dave: "Can Love Bloom on the Battlefield?"

It was a little forced, I'll admit. But Meryl getting closure that isn't "Old Man Snake dick," is fine with me.

However, the rest of the story: Yeah, it was overdramatic and over-the-top-for-the-sake-of-it. The microwave hall? Yeah, that was pretty cool, but was it really needed?

As for the gameplay, yeah, you could shoot shit. I didn't really see the point of stealth as generally even if you helped the militia, you had to redo that (helping the militia to get loyalty) in the next chapter. It was like "what's the point?"

Also Chapter 3 sucked numerous dicks. I don't know who at Kojima Productions thought a sneaking through three areas while following a dude mission was fun, but it isn't.

That said, it did bring "pause during a cutscene" to the table and some other changes I enjoyed.

However: MGS3 is still the best in the series, 1 closely following. 4 being quite a few miles behind those and 2 being a hundred thousand miles behind 4.

[rainking187]

Also Chapter 3 sucked numerous dicks. I don't know who at Kojima Productions thought a sneaking through three areas while following a dude mission was fun, but it isn't.

I really, really hate this part. I love the rest of the game, but this part almost completely kills the replay value of the game for me.

[dimb]

MGS 4 has the worst bosses in the series. They never come across as particularly menacing or intimidating, and often times they have virtually no presence on the battlefield. They're infrequent, poorly spread across the game, and a number of climaxes result in gimmicky fights.

Normal enemies are fun, but the constant respawning along set routes trivializes encounters, and needlessly pushes players through environments. Of course they disappear less than halfway into the game and you're left fighting more gimmicky robots, rendering half of your weapons, items, and the entire CQC system useless.

The game creates a really strong sneaking/combat system and essentially throws it out the window in my opinion. It's really just a complete mess of a game.

[Xint]

Fully agree with OP. Probably the biggest letdown in my gaming-life. I love the previous MGS-games, but this one just blows :(

[RustyNails]

MGS1>MGS3>MGS4>MGS2


[IMG]http://i38.************/14y51lg.gif[/IMG]

[MisterHero]

It really does. MGS3 is still better and probably the best MGS game. But there is nothing awkward about the way MGS4 controls. The shooting mechanics feel so right and the camo system is obviously better.

well I did have a problem with CQC in 4 but that's probably me

[Combichristoffersen]

I really, really hate this part. I love the rest of the game, but this part almost completely kills the replay value of the game for me.

Agreed. That part was so goddamn tedious. The rest of the game is fine, though. And manly tears were shed at the microwave hallway.

[Cataferal]

People who enjoyed MGS4 clearly have no respect for the quality of the earlier games. It ruined the characters and story, and for that reason I'd much rather pretend it doesn't exist.

[Sub_Level]

I finally beat MGS4 today and I've gotta say, what the hell was Kojima smoking/snorting when he made this game? Although certainly not a bad game in any respects

I disagree. MGS4 is a bad game in many respects. Here's just a few of it's problems:

- Commercial intro is unskippable.
- Scenes where you're prompted to press X are totally annoying, but when you don't do them the scene is ruined by awkward pauses in dialogue.
- No after-save convo.
- Framerate is inconsistent. Turn on the nvg/thermal goggles and oh wow it's like the game speeds up by 20 FPS. Blow lots of soldiers up and it's the opposite effect.
- With 60+ weapons, it's a good idea to keep the R2 menu un-cluttered. But 5 is too small a number, especially when the game often forces the M4 and Operator on the player. Most infuriating is that the L2 menu goes all the way up to 10. What were they thinking...?
- The gameplay is the best of the series, allowing a great deal of freedom in how to go through any given area. Problem is, there's nowhere to utilize it. Act 1 is a mere introduction to the mechanics. Act 2 is superb. Act 3 and 4 have too little core gameplay. Act 5 has one, ONE, ONE area of core gameplay.
- Metal Gear Online is a horrible substitute for the myriad of replay value found in the first three games. Even without taking special editions into consideration, MGS4 is nowhere near as polished or well paced as it's predecessors.

[cabot]

GREATEST VIDEOGAME OF ALL TIME

Correct.

YOU DAMN WELL BETTER BELIEVE IT MOTHERFUCKERS

you've got the right idea.

I loved this game so much... so meh to this thread...

this is true.

Still my favorite ending in a video game ever. Kojima is a genius.

THAT'S ALSO TRUE!</tenD>

One of the best games ever made.

I love you.





Everyone that I've quoted has actual taste in this forum, and speaks motherfucking truth.

If you don't think mgs4 is one of the best games ever made, then fuck you.

[2 Minutes Turkish]

Fun, but I think there's too much game play. I really just wanted to be able to set the controller down and rest my hands for a bit by the end.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

I reallly liked this

[RustyNails]

to this day i can't tell which is worse, the naomi death scene or big boss' stupid magic exposition filled 1-hour-long revival i mean, naomi's scene is all around retarded -She blames herself for... Vamp? Because she did work on nanomachines as a biologist (and probably did a lot of good work for medicine), but because Vamp is some crazy second-gen stuff derived from her work, she's all upset to the point of suicide. Which is dumb, because she's been portrayed as being stronger than Otacon, whose work on REX is pretty much the cause of all the world-endangering war and shit going on for the last nine years. And Otacon's a fucking pussy, too. -"OH BTW I HAVE CANCER" wait what where the fuck did this shit come from "NOW I'LL KILL MYSELF WITH ANTI-ANTI-CANCER NANOMACHINES" wait you have anti-cancer nanomachines Snake: Hey Naomi, can you fix my bad back, graying hair, and worsening eyesight? Naomi: No fucking way, I'm not a goddamned magician, Snake! Snake: How about the artificial virus you created (and even had a vaccine for)? Can't you- Naomi: Nope, sorry! Snake: ...okay, say I had goddamned cancer. Naomi: I GOTS THE CURE RIGHT HERE -how the fuck do these anti-cancer nanomachines work? are they all holding their collective nano-fingers on a giant "NO CANCER" button? because otherwise I'm not sure how the fuck destroying them makes you instantly die of cancer -the entire scene is meant to be very dramatic and moving, but kojima somehow didn't realize that it doesn't quite work when it's a woman stabbing herself in the neck with a syringe for no reason while two men stare and do nothing. meanwhile a toy robot on rollerskates is dancing around, and on its screen is a giant wimp sobbing and probably dripping snot like a 10yo child -"Snake, I have no more tears. I'll never cry again." five minutes later "SNAKE MY HATSUNE MIKU FIGURINE BROKE *cries about how he's left alone again*" -the best way to immediately follow a "moving" death scene is to get into a giant robot and shoot missiles and a cock laser and then have a giant robot battle -the entire reason you're there is because metal gear rex never had its warhead removed. even though the island was cleaned up and under military control ever since the shadow moses incident. but for some reason they never touched the walking nuclear death-mobile. that somehow is the ONLY nuclear weapon on earth that isn't controlled by the Patriots. on the other hand, the Big Boss scene has a football to the groin

:lol :lol
I wanna subscribe to your posts, goddamit!

Edit: here's another one. The best way to show the suicide of your greatest hero ever since the beginning of the universe, Solid Snake, is by making us feel all happy and gooey inside right before by showing the shotgun wedding of Meryl and Johnny on an airfield enjoying themselves. In MGS1, everyone from Meryl, Otacon to Mei Ling fucking worshipped Snake as the badass motherfucker from hell. In 4, nobody gives a flying fuck if he wants to shoot himself in the head.

[StuBurns]

The first chapter is MGS4 is the pinnacle of gaming. The rest is a slow decline into utter shit. Chapter two is just lame, the environments feels inorganic in design, the tracking bit is awful. Chapter three is a complete joke and the biggest waste I've ever seen. Chapter four does some very smart, cool things playing with memories and using robot enemies so the camo and shit doesn't matter and it's more MGS1 style gameplay, but it's still fairly mediocre and once you reach Vamp it's shit. The last chapter is great for four minutes, then it shit.

I did enjoy it, but it's an insult on a lot of levels, and a huge waste of what is probably the best core gameplay I've experienced.

[Speevy]

not a huge mgs fan, but I liked 4. On a completely unrelated note, having to eat things is a terrible gameplay mechanic in any game that isn't called adventure island.

[sevenchaos]

It's your kind of ppl that messed up MGS4 for the rest of us!

Meaning what exactly? The overall story of MGS got stupid with number two. Yes things got a little more "real" with three but it didn't help with it's disgusting control scheme. I guess I'll just say that playing two and three prepared me for four so I wasn't let down. We were given answers and that's what I wanted even if some of them were down right stupid. And yes the gameplay was amazing in comparison to two and three.

Side note: One is the best. No MGS game, past or present, will ever come close.

Better gameplay than MGS3? crazy.(Talking about the definitive subsistence version of course)

Yes. Not crazy.

[EmCeeGramr]

Also MGS4 ruined Solid Snake's character by taking all of the character development from MGS1 and MGS2, throwing them out the window, and turning him into an oblivious stooge who's rewarded for his long struggle by being given a history lecture for an hour by a murdering terrorist who was supposed to be dead.

[Blablurn]

GREATEST VIDEOGAME OF ALL TIME

you nailed it.

[RadioHeadAche]

People who enjoyed MGS4 clearly have no respect for the quality of the earlier games. It ruined the characters and story, and for that reason I'd much rather pretend it doesn't exist.

What a load of poppycock. I loved the first three MGS games, and I still enjoyed the fourth installment. It's not perfect, but the first three weren't either. Saying that enjoying the fourth means you have no respect for the others sounds like elitist nonsense.

[TheSeks]

The Big Shell simulation was supposed to be a recreation of Shadow Moses and it pretty much had nothing in common with it. That one still pisses me off to no end.

Wasn't that supposed to be a lie by Ocelot? If I remember right "Solid Snake Simulation" wasn't exactly what "S3" meant. Ocelot explains this even later in that huge ass monologue shortly after this bit, but yeah...

The ending is where I completely fell over the cliff of understanding on MGS2. It basically goes "OKAY, YOU'RE NEXT MISSION IS--WAIT, THE INTERNET IS BAD! AND YOU'RE BAD FOR SPOUTING MEMES, MMMM'KAY."

well I did have a problem with CQC in 4 but that's probably me

It's not just you. I don't think I ever used CQC because it was awkward and hard to pull off compared to MGS3.

[HappyBivouac]

The entire game should've taken place in the same setting as act one, with maybe a few MGS2-style setting transitions near the end. Game was pointlessly bloated, and not only did the story suffer from it, but that shit bled over onto the gameplay as well.

Still a good game, mind you. But my anticipation was really built up for answers to questions left from MGS2, and man did it fuck that up.

[sevenchaos]

What a load of poppycock. I loved the first three MGS games, and I still enjoyed the fourth installment. It's not perfect, but the first three weren't either. Saying that enjoying the fourth means you have no respect for the others sounds like elitist nonsense.

"We are GAF. We are elitist."

[StuBurns]

Wasn't that supposed to be a lie by Ocelot? If I remember right "Solid Snake Simulation" wasn't exactly what "S3" meant. Ocelot explains this even later in that huge ass monologue shortly after this bit, but yeah... The ending is where I completely fell over the cliff of understanding on MGS2. It basically goes "OKAY, YOU'RE NEXT MISSION IS--WAIT, THE INTERNET IS BAD! AND YOU'RE BAD FOR SPOUTING MEMES, MMMM'KAY."

SSS doesn't stand for that indeed. I believe it was a lie the Patriot AIs told Ocelot or something. But even to say MGS2 isn't a lot like MGS1 is pretty inaccurate, it's very similar. Then again MGS1 is the same as MG2 as well.

[Guyver]

Well how else would it stop you fans from requesting for more sequels :D (Clever.. Mr Kojima)

But anyways, i thought it was ok game if you forget about those parts.

[Kimosabae]

This game literally turned me off the entire franchise. WIth the exception of the first, I now think all the games are terrible.

[Solid Moustache]

OP you summed up some of the bad points with the game in a nice way. Wish I could do that myself lol

As for my opinions:
Awesome game in every aspect except maybe writing.

The "painting" cutscenes were FENOMENAL. Truly a milestone IMO.

Shitty MGS game btw.

[RustyNails]

Also MGS4 ruined Solid Snake's character by taking all of the character development from MGS1 and MGS2, throwing them out the window, and turning him into an oblivious stooge who's rewarded for his long struggle by being given a history lecture for an hour by a murdering terrorist who was supposed to be dead.

MGS4 essentially destroyed Solid Snake. He was reduced to nothing more than a caricature (grunts, smokes, is always up for suicide missions), with some godawful lines.

Raiden: sniff sniff...it even rained the day I was born :*(
Snake: You were the lightning in that rain!

GTFO. What is this? Fuckin amateur hour folks.

[EmCeeGramr]

IIRC, during MGS4's development someone from KojiPro (either Payton or Kojima himself) said that some rather important lines of dialogue given by the AI in MGS2's ending were completely mistranslated, to the point that the opposite meaning was conveyed.

I don't think they specified though, and given how much of that just went on and on without point I doubt it really matters! Kojima would just retcon it anyway, he doesn't care about themes or what characters say.

[Rahxephon91]

MGS2 Snake-"Whatever, find something you believe in and fight for it! Make your own life"

MGS4 Snake-"Kill me please"

Also

MGS2 Raiden is less "emo" then MGS4 Raiden but OMG hes a ninja!

[TheSeks]

SSS doesn't stand for that indeed. I believe it was a lie the Patriot AIs told Ocelot or something. But even to say MGS2 isn't a lot like MGS1 is pretty inaccurate, it's very similar. Then again MGS1 is the same as MG2 as well.

My memory is fuzzy on MG2 (only played the emulated MSX version through Subsistence), but: What? o_O

No, Ocelot told Solidus that's what it stood for, and Raiden heard S3 called that through Solidus. I don't think the Patroit AI's had anything to do with that, but could be wrong.

IIRC, during MGS4's development someone from KojiPro (either Payton or Kojima himself) said that some rather important lines of dialogue given by the AI in MGS2's ending were completely mistranslated, to the point that the opposite meaning was conveyed.

I blame Payton for a bunch of shit that happened during his time at KojiPro. I wouldn't trust anything he says, esp. given his retcon of Grey Fox's history from MG1 in MGS:PO. (Which is being retconned by Peace Walker, well the whole story of PO anyway)

[Solid Moustache]

I honestly believe that people who really enjoyed this game are just blind Kojima fans....I just find it really hard to believe that fans of the first 3 MGS games can even rank this amongst those other games...terrible game by MGS standards, but luckily Peace Walker seems to have arrived for the save.

Don't worry you're not alone, count me in the loved123buthated4 group.

[Pappasman]

Chapter 4 could possibly be one of my favorite video game experiences of all time.

I liked the convoluted story, everything seems to be justified by the "because it's cool" argument. you can't take it to seriously :lol It's not like video games are literature.

[StuBurns]

IIRC, during MGS4's development someone from KojiPro (either Payton or Kojima himself) said that some rather important lines of dialogue given by the AI in MGS2's ending were completely mistranslated, to the point that the opposite meaning was conveyed. I don't think they specified though, and given how much of that just went on and on without point I doubt it really matters! Kojima would just retcon it anyway, he doesn't care about themes or what characters say.

That's really not too accurate if they did say that. Even the "big" mistake of referring to the unborn Sunny as a male is really not a mistake as there is no sex implied in the Japanese.

The issue is more likely the removed material, there is apparently a fairly substantial amount of material cut which relates to terrorism. However, I'm sure the initial thing is very poorly written as it is.

[cosmicblizzard]

Let's be fair. There was no way for the series to end without getting convoluted after 2. The whole concept of the patriots and then the bombshell Otacon dropped on you at the end of 2 made coherence impossible. I'm not denying the holes in the story but I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy it anyway. As I said earlier, it has one of my favorite endings not only in gaming but in any medium.

[Kimosabae]

MGS4 essentially destroyed Solid Snake. He was reduced to nothing more than a caricature (grunts, smokes, is always up for suicide missions), with some godawful lines. Raiden: sniff sniff...it even rained the day I was born :*( Snake: You were the lightning in that rain! GTFO. What is this? Fuckin amateur hour folks.

LOL.

Here's an idea: someone needs to make a thread dedicated to bad dialogue in games. I want to see the best this game had to offer - stat.

[Magnus]

Was one of the greatest letdowns in gaming history for me, only recently supplanted (by a landslide) by one Final Fantasy XIII.

[Solid Moustache]

You should play Half Life 2 : episode 2...

Lol no. Loved the game, but no. Maybe if you had choosen one the previous two (the one with the explosion can't remember) but no..

[RustyNails]

There was this story about this translator dude who converted Kojima's cheesy ass lines into proper Hollywood-ish English, atleast B-movie grade acceptable levels. But he did this on his own accord. That's why MGS1, though sounded OTT and cheesy at times, had really memorable lines and acceptable work. Kojima apparently fired this guy and his team, resulting in a trainwreck of MGS2 script.

[Blader5489]

MGS2 Snake-"Whatever, find something you believe in and fight for it! Make your own life" MGS4 Snake-"Kill me please so I don't kill a bunch of innocent people"

Fixed.

[RadioHeadAche]

This game literally turned me off the entire franchise. WIth the exception of the first, I now think all the games are terrible.

I can sympathize in a way. I was really hyped for MGS4, and I was completely hooked throughout the whole thing. Now, for some reason, I just don't feel excited for any new installments. I don't really care for Peace Walker or Rising. Maybe that feeling will change closer to release, but I think MGS4 burned me out on the series. I still enjoyed it, but I just don't have the motivation to buy the new games. I also don't have a lot of motivation for games in general, so that probably has something to do with it.

[Beardz]

My ex gf cried because "Ocelot was so mean"... yeah, I'm serious.

[Solid Moustache]

The Big Shell simulation was supposed to be a recreation of Shadow Moses and it pretty much had nothing in common with it. That one still pisses me off to no end.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

8 years later and people still don't understand MGS2's plot/ending :lol

[I NEED SCISSORS]

Ah, EmCeeGramr, never change.

Spot on analysis as usual. :D

[Blader5489]

Wasn't that supposed to be a lie by Ocelot? If I remember right "Solid Snake Simulation" wasn't exactly what "S3" meant. Ocelot explains this even later in that huge ass monologue shortly after this bit, but yeah...

The point was still to replicate Shadow Moses, just not for the sake of creating a new Solid Snake.

[RadioHeadAche]

My ex gf cried because "Ocelot was so mean"... yeah, I'm serious.

Kitty's got claws and he knows how to use them.