[jetsetfluken]

However, the treatment of Big Boss's support crew of MGS3 in this game really, really, really bothers me. Their random changes in personality bother me simply because of how well developed they were in MGS3 if you listened to all of their Codec conversations. Hell, we're talking about a trio that essentially formed a rare-animal-support club and all remain rather jovial with each other. Zero is developed as a nice guy, albeit by the books, who doesn't hide his love for hobbies like spy thrillers. We have Para-Medic, a rather goofy movie-loving woman who still has a strict code concerning scientific pursuit and her motivation in life was simply to help others. Sigint was a rather cynical man with a great degree of respect for Zero because Zero gave him a chance despite his ethnicity (and this actually does come up in a conversation in the game) yet still shares the same quirks as the other two. After listening to almost all the codec convos MGS3 had to offer, you really get some insight into their plights, personalities, and friendship.

Alright, I do agree the codec was lacking (Campbell for example should have been one of your contacts for one thing).
But that will be fixed in MGS4:S, the director's cut edition.

Right? Right?!

[rvy]

Not this again...

If I wanted to see nonsensical shit for 15 hours, I'd just watch FOX news all day long, I wouldn't shell out 90€ for it.
Too bad, the first trailer gave you a great premise. Exploring the middle east for the entirety of the game, taking into account every bullet you waste, destructible environments (hence the "No Place to Hide" bullshit), depressing atmosphere, following Ocelot and finding ways to sneak around PMC soldiers/Militia while they slaughter each other would have been awesome.



What we got instead was hardly like it. Oh, well... at least Peace Walker seems to be pretty playable. Story should just be disregarded at this point.

[strem]

The Cult of Kojima will not be happy with this thread. Shh don't tell them but I agree with the OP

I remember when I first tried going online with MGS4. WTF kind of mess was that. It was almost as bad as the story but nothing can ever be that bad. Honestly in 15 years we will look back and still wonder with amazement at that story.

I remember my wife watching me play and the dude (can't remember his name) starts shitting his pants. My wife looked so dissapointed with me. It was one of those moments where gaming couldn't be defended. Don't give me this shit that it's a metaphor about eastern and western game development. Just stop. Kojima to me will from now known as Captain Shitty Pants. Terrible just terrible

[jetsetfluken]

I truly wonder how this game was rated GAF's GOTY.

Because people (like you?:lol ) are two-faced and when a form of entertainment isn't the hottest thing, they say to themselves, "Oh, THAT game? That OLD thing? Nobody talks about that anymore. Time to point out flaws...oh well, I hate the whole thing! I am soo above that now. I swear I didn't say I liked it back in 2008..."

That has to be the reason...:D

[Theman2k]

YOU DAMN WELL BETTER BELIEVE IT MOTHERFUCKERS

Agreed, MGS4 Best game EVER.

[jett]

My name is jett and I approve of this thread.

What can I say about this game that I haven't already? The biggest disappointment of my life.

The game is also irrefutable evidence that video game review writers are on the take. How in the motherfuck did this thing get so many perfect scores? HOW.

[FunkyPajamas]

Wait, so OP didn't rike it?

[Aesthet1c]

My memories of this game revolve almost exclusively around watching overly long, nonsensical cutscenes; rolling my eyes as Kojima tried to piecemeal a story that simply got away from him. I don't really have any recollection of playing this game other than a few small parts. I'm completely over exaggerating.

I fixed that last sentence for you.

[jett]

Personally, if the game stuck to the formula of the first two acts, I would have liked it a lot more than I did despite the utter batshit insane story. Instead, we get an act where we follow a guy for an hour (my and my friend almost flipped the fuck out when said guy randomly got hit by a patrol truck and we had to restart a portion of the mission) and two others that are mostly cutscenes. However, the treatment of Big Boss's support crew of MGS3 in this game really, really, really bothers me. Their random changes in personality bother me simply because of how well developed they were in MGS3 if you listened to all of their Codec conversations. Hell, we're talking about a trio that essentially formed a rare-animal-support club and all remain rather jovial with each other. Zero is developed as a nice guy, albeit by the books, who doesn't hide his love for hobbies like spy thrillers. We have Para-Medic, a rather goofy movie-loving woman who still has a strict code concerning scientific pursuit and her motivation in life was simply to help others. Sigint was a rather cynical man with a great degree of respect for Zero because Zero gave him a chance despite his ethnicity (and this actually does come up in a conversation in the game) yet still shares the same quirks as the other two. After listening to almost all the codec convos MGS3 had to offer, you really get some insight into their plights, personalities, and friendship. ... But it turns out that Zero became a megalomaniac due to a difference of opinion, Para-Medic performed brutal, in-humane experiments on super-soldiers and got killed for it, and Signit became an asshole involved in a government conspiracy affiliated with other assholes. Fuck, Kojima.

bububu BEST GAME EVER

goddamnit I want to eyegouge the people that call MGS4 the best at anything, unless it's the best at shitting all over itself. MGS4 is so bad it has retroactively diminished my enjoyment of the previous games.

(hence the "No Place to Hide" bullshit)

Yeah, NO PLACE TO HIDE...except everywhere! Good going there Kojima, you truly are the master of stealth gaming.

[Combichristoffersen]

I remember when I first tried going online with MGS4. WTF kind of mess was that. It was almost as bad as the story but nothing can ever be that bad. Honestly in 15 years we will look back and still wonder with amazement at that story.

Never played FF X or Star Ocean 3?

[-viper-]

Because people (like you?:lol ) are two-faced and when a form of entertainment isn't the hottest thing, they say to themselves, "Oh, THAT game? That OLD thing? Nobody talks about that anymore. Time to point out flaws...oh well, I hate the whole thing! I am soo above that now. I swear I didn't say I liked it back in 2008..." That has to be the reason...:D

wtf are you on about.

I think MGS4 is a great game. But most of the people who are complaining probably voted it as their game of the year too.

when I played it, it blew me away. fantastic gameplay, presentation and graphics. sure, the story is shit, but it didn't stop me from enjoying the game.

[Sohter.Nura]

People need to appreciate cheesy things. I really like the cheesy story in Metal Gear Solid titles.

Why do people feel like story lines from games have to be like books? They can stand on their on as a different form of story telling.

I enjoyed the heck out of MGS4, the last battle was a heck of a good time.

[Prentice]

Metal Gear Solid 4 is a perfect imperfect ending to an imperfect perfect series.

Errr...what...:D.

[bluehat9]

After I played through it once, I had to go through it again just to make sure it was as horrible as I thought it was the first time. There was practically nothing to do in the final acts. Hated the bosses (complete with the cheesy stories that the gun seller with a monkey had to say), everything about Raiden, and the entire ending too. I'm still mad I bought the collector's edition or whatever it was called. I think its the worst MGS game by a wide margin and one of the biggest disappointments I've ever had in gaming.

[jett]

People need to appreciate cheesy things. I really like the cheesy story in Metal Gear Solid titles. Why do people feel like story lines from games have to be like books? They can stand on their on as a different form of story telling. I enjoyed the heck out of MGS4, the last battle was a heck of a good time.

How about stories that are coherent and don't retcon and utterly ruin characters and plotlines from previous enries in the franchise? How about characters I give a fuck about? How about that shit? Is that shit too much to ask?

There's cheesiness and then there's straight up idiocy.

[Foxtastical]

Man, defending the MGS4 story by saying "enjoy a cheesy story" seems ridiculous. When MGS came out, if you said it was enjoyable because it was cheesy, MGS fans would've went ballistic.

[J-Rod]

Monthly MGS4 troll topic. Good to know GAF is regular.

[randomwab]

How about stories that are coherent and don't retcon and utterly ruin characters and plotlines from previous enries in the franchise? How about characters I give a fuck about? How about that shit? Is that shit too much to ask? There's cheesiness and then there's straight up idiocy.

How dare you ask for what should be taken for granted in game stories these days! This is Kojima! He can take a dump and you're supposed to like it!

[hamchan]

Never played FF X or Star Ocean 3?

I quite like FFX and even if you don't, at least it doesn't shit on the whole franchise like MGS4's and SO3's stories did.

[kodt]

I hated two and despised three. Four was good. Not great. But good.

obvious troll = ban

[Goron2000]

Naomi: "Snake, i have found the antidote for FoxDie"
Snake: "Brilliant, what is it?"
Naomi: "I call it Fox....Alive!"
Snake: "Genius"

I liked the game, it was a fun ride.

[jetsetfluken]

Reading a few complaints really makes me want an "MGS4:S" even more now. They could easily make some kind of long mode where you are only in the Middle East section. Make it 10-15 hours. Kind of like the "play as Snake in Big Shell" mode from MGS2:S. Except canon.

[Zissou]

Monthly MGS4 troll topic. Good to know GAF is regular.

I don't get this shit. The people criticizing the game might might use ridiculous analogies and methods of explaining their problems with MGS4, but the defenders hardly ever actually attempt to explain why it doesn't matter that the the entire support crew from MGS3 were all secretly psychopaths or any of the other million problems with the game.

[Shadow780]

Must be that time of the month already.

[Salaadin]

Who was it on neogaf that said that the best MGS games are the ones that dont rely too much on the others to get their point across...or something like that. It was basically a fancy way of saying that MGS1 and MGS3 were the best.

I enjoyed MGS4 but think its the worst in the series. Somewhere after MGS1, Kojima lost his mind and made MGS2. He made up for that with MGS3 but when he needed to make a direct sequel to MGS2, we got MGS4.

It had plenty of good moments (Act 4 especially) but the story loses track so much that it just doesnt know where to go.

Personally, I wouldve been happy if the Solid Snake story ended with MGS1 and we got MGS3 as a prequel to Metal Gear to let us know more backstory on Big Boss. If MGS2 and 4 never existed, I dont see me being too upset.

[LCfiner]

I pretty much hated every single non interactive element of this game.

The awful exposition, melodrama and characters (hey look, I shit my pants! yuck yuck). the overly long cutscenes and nonsense story made me upset that members of the game press were holding this up as some example of great storytelling.

fuck that shit.

It's sub-Ed Wood-level amateur hour garbage.

I'm always glad when another person plays through it and makes a thread like this as it's one more person who has seen the light and is no longer oblivious that Kojima is a fucking hack.

[TheSeks]

Reading a few complaints really makes me want an "MGS4:S" even more now. They could easily make some kind of long mode where you are only in the Middle East section. Make it 10-15 hours. Kind of like the "play as Snake in Big Shell" mode from MGS2:S. Except canon.

Fuck yeah, Snake in Act 1/2/4/5. Screw three. The only time three comes up is for the Eva bit (and even that could be cut out of the game) and Ocelot finger-banging everyone.

But the gameplay elements of 1/2/4/5 were good. Remove the non-stop ammo and make it slightly sneaky and it'd be perfect.

[Esteban]

MGS4 is the best game this gen in my opinion. You can hate the story, but it's difficult to hate the execution...

[catapult37]

In retrospect, I think MGS4's biggest crime was robbing us of HD young Snake. I hated how they took the iconic image of Snake with his back against the wall, peering around a corner, and replaced it with a geriatric leaning slightly forward toward the wall.

[hamchan]

MGS4 is the best game this gen in my opinion. You can hate the story, but it's difficult to hate the execution...

The horrible cutscenes aren't part of the execution?

[bud]

fantastic graphics? hell no! mgs4 is an ugly, drab looking game. s.o.l. and s.e. look much, much better. the only times g.o.t.p. looked great was during that retarded 60 minute cutscene at the end of chapter three.

[Salaadin]

You can hate the story, but it's difficult to hate the execution...

I actually agree with this a lot. As crappy of some it can be, it is beautiful crap.

In retrospect, I think MGS4's biggest crime was robbing us of HD young Snake. I hated how they took the iconic image of Snake with his back against the wall, peering around a corner, and replaced it with a geriatric leaning slightly forward toward the wall.

I hate that too. Why did it have to change?

[thetrin]

Yes, you are special, and everyone cares about your opinion regarding MGS4. That is why you must make a thread about it.

Oh wait, no one fucking cares.

In retrospect, I think MGS4's biggest crime was robbing us of HD young Snake. I hated how they took the iconic image of Snake with his back against the wall, peering around a corner, and replaced it with a geriatric leaning slightly forward toward the wall.

Did you miss the part where you can camo as young Snake any time you want after Chapter 2?

[bud]

having to press a button to lean against the wall did nothing to make the controls more accessible. and why did i have to stand up to shoot over crates? what the fuck is that shit.

[Esteban]

The horrible cutscenes aren't part of the execution?

Obvious troll = ban ?

I thought they were quite good actually. Faces were definitely impressive too.

But you can still skip them if they bother you, can't you ? Why not focus on gameplay then ?

[thetrin]

MGS4 made leaning against walls completely useless and entirely optional. That was dumb in itself. I don't think that deserves another fucking LTTP thread, though.

[hamchan]

I thought they were quite good actually. Faces were definitely impressive too. But you can still skip them if they bother you, can't you ? Why not focus on gameplay then ?

I'm a long time MGS fan so skipping the cutscenes on the first playthrough is pretty much out of the question. If I ever do play it again i'll skip most of the cutscenes.

I consider the length and pacing of cutscenes as part of the execution too.

EDIT: What the fuck @ you editing in the "obvious troll = ban?" bullshit?

[PjotrStroganov]

Obvious troll = ban ? I thought they were quite good actually. Faces were definitely impressive too. But you can still skip them if they bother you, can't you ? Why not focus on gameplay then ?

When playing the game for the first time as a longtime MGS fan: yes, I want to skip cutscenes and be absolutely clueless about what is going on.

[strem]

Never played FF X or Star Ocean 3?

Haha good point. I didn't want to take on the Final Fantasy defense force. Those people will show up at your door and smother you with their anime body pillows. As a peace offering I do like ff13's battle system!

In the end I'm only 1 man. I can't battle both defense forces at the same Time

[KittyKittyBangBang]

I am not a MGS fan at all and I fucking loved MGS4

[Soneet]

Damn, there are spoilers for previous MGS's in the OP. Damn. I never finished any and I thought I would never play MGS4 so I thought this would be safe, but...

Damn it all.

[hsukardi]

However, the treatment of Big Boss's support crew of MGS3 in this game really, really, really bothers me. Their random changes in personality bother me simply because of how well developed they were in MGS3 if you listened to all of their Codec conversations. Hell, we're talking about a trio that essentially formed a rare-animal-support club and all remain rather jovial with each other. Zero is developed as a nice guy, albeit by the books, who doesn't hide his love for hobbies like spy thrillers. We have Para-Medic, a rather goofy movie-loving woman who still has a strict code concerning scientific pursuit and her motivation in life was simply to help others. Sigint was a rather cynical man with a great degree of respect for Zero because Zero gave him a chance despite his ethnicity (and this actually does come up in a conversation in the game) yet still shares the same quirks as the other two. After listening to almost all the codec convos MGS3 had to offer, you really get some insight into their plights, personalities, and friendship. ... But it turns out that Zero became a megalomaniac due to a difference of opinion, Para-Medic performed brutal, in-humane experiments on super-soldiers and got killed for it, and Signit became an asshole involved in a government conspiracy affiliated with other assholes. Fuck, Kojima.

Kojima isn't a good storyteller. I remember playing Act 4 and there comes Outer Haven the giant tanker ship crashing in and Raiden jumps in, holding back the massive vessel for a while before getting crushed... everything in that scene implied that he died in a sacrifice.

And you have the next scene where Snake's in the conference room saying like, oh, Raiden's okay, just recovering from his wounds.

What the fuck. Absobushitfuckingly batshit insane storytelling. Let's not start with Meryl and Johnny Sasaki. And everything else. The PATRIOTS anagram at the end was disgustingly corny.


You really need to be very meta or tongue-in-cheek and try to understand the game as a series of fanservice scenes or a giant middle finger from Kojima trying to get away from the series (and go on to eventually make Peacewalker...) to cut it any slack.

Many parts of the game are memorable, with key scenes, visual design and gameplay making up interesting moments you won't forget. However, the game as told, is a piece of turd.

[JasonMCG]

I fixed that last sentence for you.

You must have misread the part where I said I was being completely honest.

[AAK]

:lol :lol

Man, few games are as massive and overwhelming as MGS4. I don't expect everyone out there to acknowledge that this is the greatest videogame ever made like me, but you CANNOT say the game was overall bad.

But damn, looking at this topic the MGS4 haters are insane drama queens. Nitpicking over such minuscule scenes and completely ignoring other things that make MGS4 the #1 PS3 game out today.

[jett]

MGS4 is the best game this gen in my opinion. You can hate the story, but it's difficult to hate the execution...

If anything the "execution" deserves even more hate than the story. Only 2/5ths of the game adequately exploit the gameplay mechanics of the game.

-Act 3 is a hideous, boring as all fuck escorting mission.
-Once you get past the nostalgia trip that is Act 4, there is nothing in there. It's a big -empty space filled with dumb robots. Where are the human enemies? Almost no stealth gameplay to speak of.
-Act 5 is nothing. The gameplay in there lasts 20 minutes tops. What a disgrace.

Then there's the bosses. The only boss fight I liked was the first one. Although it was mostly linear and scripted, the interaction with Meryl's team was excellent and you felt like part of their squad. It was really well done. The others are lame and easy and offer no challenge whatsoever at any difficulty level. Kojima tries to hard to recreate and remind one of previous encounters with the Shadow Moses bosses, but ultimately it just fails for me. Compare the "sniper" boss of MGS4 to MGS3's The End(the greatest boss fight of all time)...or hell even to MGS1's Sniper Wolf...it's BAD. It's SO BAD. It's just awful.

But probably the worst aspect of the "execution" is the utterly ridiculous an unnecessary length of the cut-scenes. There are so many of them and each so stupidly lengthy. Most of them are so long and mired in needless and constant exposition that it's hard to care about what is happening. Terrible stuff. Kojima should look at Naughty Dog's games and see how to fucking do it. All the action in Uncharted 2 is almost always done in-gameplay, and the longest FMV is 4 minutes long. With MGS4, Kojima showed himself to be an incapable man. Incapable as a game designer and incapable as a "movie" director.

[Pureauthor]

Way back when MGS2 came out I made a prediction that there was no way on God's green earth Kojima could give a successful resolution to the nonsense he was spewing.

What do you know, I was right.

Metal Gear Solid 4 has a bad plot that was told badly. I don't even want to get into how ridiculous the whole thing is because it would take up far too much time if I tried to lsit out everything that was awful about it.

I'd like to add, however, that the final boss of MGS4 is bullshit, especially in relation to the complete awesomeness that was the final boss of MGS3.

[depths20XX]

God Tier: MGS
A Tier: MGS 3

This isn't fun tier: MGS2 MGS4

[Sub_Level]

I am not a MGS fan at all and I fucking loved MGS4

Exactly.

[jett]

I'd like to add, however, that the final boss of MGS4 is bullshit, especially in relation to the complete awesomeness that was the final boss of MGS3.

It was really terrible. I mean, GOD AWFUL. Aside from the horribly unresponsive controls and terrible fighting mechanics, Liquid Ocelot is a shitty character I don't care for. Liquid Snake is awesome. Revolver Ocelot is awesome. Kojima eliminated both of them to create the garbage that is Liquid Ocelot. :|

Everytime I think about MGS4 to great length I can help but think that Kojima turned MGS4 into dogturd on purpose. It's the only reasonable answer to the mess that is that game.

[Salaadin]

I'd like to add, however, that the final boss of MGS4 is bullshit, especially in relation to the complete awesomeness that was the final boss of MGS3.

A lot of things look bad when compared to MGS3 :D

I enjoyed the final fight. It was a little easy and simple but I loved watching how it transitions from MGS1 thru MGS4. What I didnt like, however, were the magic syringes that breath life into everyone.

That whole cutscene before the final fight with half dead microwaved Snake laying there and suddenly getting back to 100% because of these injections and then him and Ocelot fist fighting while injecting eachother was just odd. It was cool when I first saw it but now I just sit there wondering why I liked it.