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duckroll
mashadar's Nekomimi slave
(06-17-2010, 01:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by chubigans

All credit to Jibber Hack for bringing up the article in the MS conference thread:

Originally Posted by Standing Room Only

Right now, Kinect only works when you stand. This includes menu navigation. All the cool options to grab a slider and advance through frames of a movie you are watching only work when you are on your feet. Kinect, we've been told, has problems handling your skeletal frame while sitting. The voice commands still work, but every game we've seen and even simple menu navigation have to be done with you out of your seat. That's not exactly how I want to watch my movies. If the focus for Kinect is creating games like Dance Central that naturally would require you to be off your couch, that's great. But I have to say, no one thinks "I am driving a car!" while standing up in their living room.


http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/109/1099085p1.html

No word on if that's temporary or not. They've got four-five months to fix this. I mean, seriously?


Edit: gofreak says:

Originally Posted by gofreak

Edge reported devs' concerns on this exact problem - parsing out the player from furniture - a couple of issues ago. It seems entirely believable when you take a moment to think about the challenges involved vs dealing with people standing 'free'.

Again though, said article said that MS was working to fix this.

But Aaron Greenberg twitters...

Yes you can sit or stand with Kinect, depends on the game or experience.

Okay, let's try this again. Keep the discussion on topic, and avoid trolling or derailing or you will be banned.

Edit: IGN has since updated their article with this:

Standing Room Only
According to Microsoft, you can play some Kinect games sitting down. It "varies" by experience. However, several developers giving us demos have said the exact opposite. Sometimes the contradiction comes from the same person--one day telling us you have to be standing and then the next saying everything can be done while sitting.

Which is true? We don't know for certain, as we have not had the opportunity to play anything seated. Suffice to say, if you have to stand for every game (or for menu navigation), that's a big problem. This remains a concern until we ourselves can test out Kinect from our rear.

Edit: UPDATE!

Originally Posted by jgwhiteus

They responded to the Kotaku article and basically admitted that currently, body tracking / gesture control does not work while sitting for media control functions, but that they were hoping to fix it for those specific functions before launch.

They did not respond as to whether it will ever work for games. But if they were actually telling developers not to use sitting in games, as reported by Totilo, it doesn't really matter - again, if it's not ready by now, a few months before launch, there won't be enough time for developers to create any new, meaningful games that use the body tracking functions while you're sitting. I don't think it's the sort of thing developers can just flip a switch for in the middle of multi-year game development. EDIT: That is, developers have to assume for now that Kinect games will require players to stand, and they're going to base their design decisions on that - can't be an hours-long experience, has to happen in short bursts that people can tolerate.

http://kotaku.com/5565777/xbox-kinec...couch-potatoes

Originally Posted by Kotaku

UPDATE: A Microsoft spokesperson told me after the publication of this article that the company is certain that Kinect gesture control will work for movies, ESPN and other "entertainment" features before the sensor is launched. As I originally reported, that is not an implemented feature yet. The spokesperson was not able to provide any update on the Kinect's tolerance of a person who sits while playing games.

Last edited by duckroll; 06-19-2010 at 11:48 AM.
WrikaWrek
Banned
(06-17-2010, 01:08 AM)
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What the fuck :lol :lol

Not even the menu or the video stuff?

This is very special MS.
op_ivy
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(06-17-2010, 01:08 AM)
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wow.


:lol
pr0cs
Member
(06-17-2010, 01:09 AM)
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Doesn't seem like there is a lot to discuss. Greenberg isn't going to lie about something as critical as this.
TheGreatMightyPoo
(06-17-2010, 01:09 AM)
I can understand this, not sure what the fuss is about.
dralla
Member
(06-17-2010, 01:09 AM)
yea i doubt it.
AndyD
aka andydumi
(06-17-2010, 01:09 AM)
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NVM
Costanza
Banned
(06-17-2010, 01:09 AM)
There's just no way they'll release it like this. Just... wow.
markot
Junior Member
(06-17-2010, 01:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by pr0cs

Doesn't seem like there is a lot to discuss. Greenberg isn't going to lie about something as critical as this.

Why would the press and people using it lie >_<?
op_ivy
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(06-17-2010, 01:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by AndyD

Posted here
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=398585

dood
a Master Ninja
for whom the Bell trolls
(06-17-2010, 01:10 AM)
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I guess the silver lining here would be that this might not be possible:
[IMG]http://i50.************/kf37ep.jpg[/IMG]
Last edited by a Master Ninja; 06-17-2010 at 01:14 AM.
fernoca
Member
(06-17-2010, 01:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by AndyD

Posted here
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=398585

:lol :lol :lol

Which is why it was posted ..again.
C.Dark.DN
previously DeathNote
(06-17-2010, 01:10 AM)
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I don't see how it wouldn't. No way.
AndyD
aka andydumi
(06-17-2010, 01:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by op_ivy

dood

I just noticed what happened over there. I was about 3 pages behind catching up...:lol :lol
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
(06-17-2010, 01:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by pr0cs

Doesn't seem like there is a lot to discuss. Greenberg isn't going to lie about something as critical as this.

There are many ways to read his statement. What his statement doesn't say is "No, Kinect works perfectly fine while seated."
Speevy
Member
(06-17-2010, 01:11 AM)
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It's very difficult not to laugh at the prospect of the final product being like this.


But then, they might fix everything before launch and we're speculating on a non-issue.

I will say that I do not enjoy gaming while standing up, regardless of what I'm playing. It was fun in Wii Bowling, but I don't care to make it a habit.
BenjaminBirdie
(06-17-2010, 01:11 AM)
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This is their edit:

Standing Room Only

According to Microsoft, you can play some Kinect games sitting down. It "varies" by experience. However, several developers giving us demos have said the exact opposite. Sometimes the contradiction comes from the same person--one day telling us you have to be standing and then the next saying everything can be done while sitting.

Which is true? We don't know for certain, as we have not had the opportunity to play anything seated. Suffice to say, if you have to stand for every game (or for menu navigation), that's a big problem. This remains a concern until we ourselves can test out Kinect from our rear.

Jtyettis
Member
(06-17-2010, 01:12 AM)
I wants to be on my couch using this for at least the changing of channel type functions oh and maybe even a little Child of Eden. Although standing may still be best for that.
SloppehSlawlz
Junior Member
(06-17-2010, 01:12 AM)
Isn't the point of Kinect is to stand up?
Wario64
works for Gamestop (lol)
(06-17-2010, 01:12 AM)

Originally Posted by pr0cs

Doesn't seem like there is a lot to discuss. Greenberg isn't going to lie about something as critical as this.

You can stand if you want to play a game or sit down to experience the feeling of watching your mother's ass playing a running minigame.
V_Ben
Member
(06-17-2010, 01:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by pr0cs

Doesn't seem like there is a lot to discuss. Greenberg isn't going to lie about something as critical as this.

:lol

Of course he is. Its damage control.
DevilWillcry
Member
(06-17-2010, 01:12 AM)
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The fact that devs are having concerns about this is troubling. MS's comments on the matter are vague at best.
fernoca
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(06-17-2010, 01:13 AM)
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Yeah, Greenberg wasn't clear enough..
What I would like if some site manages to make a hands-on impressions..not sponsored by Microsoft; on their own.. (i.e. no Microsoft rep guiding anyone; just they sitting down and trying to use it)
Medalion
Banned
(06-17-2010, 01:13 AM)
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IGN comes through... AND a reason to resurrect this thread after derailing of other :P

Yes, standing up normally would be bad, but I sit SO much at my job, there are times I wish I could stand up more, so maybe this Kinect thing won't be so bad :lol
TheGreatMightyPoo
(06-17-2010, 01:13 AM)

Originally Posted by SloppehSlawlz

Isn't the point of Kinect is to stand up?

Yeah, really.
MightyHedgehog
Welcome to the Wasteland.
I hope you're wearing your flak vest!
(06-17-2010, 01:14 AM)
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It's software and as such will just need to be tuned for the given game. Will be fine by launch or MS really didn't work out all of the possibilities early enough to to see this coming.
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
(06-17-2010, 01:14 AM)
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I just can't see the technology being released with a huge flaw in design like this.

MS is not stupid and obviously knows that people don't want to stand up to rewind movies and what not with Kinect.
cutebabyelephant
Junior Member
(06-17-2010, 01:14 AM)
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It's baffling that Microsoft is pushing Natal so hard if it's this bad.
mantidor
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(06-17-2010, 01:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by SloppehSlawlz

Isn't the point of Kinect is to stand up?

Not for menu navigation though. They did show in the trailer all the family laid back while the dad move his hands to go through some movie. so they lied to us?
CartridgeBlower
Member
(06-17-2010, 01:15 AM)

Originally Posted by TheGreatMightyPoo

Yeah, really.

Not when chilling on the couch navigating netflix...
Speevy
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(06-17-2010, 01:15 AM)
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Here's another question.

What software did they demo that would actually lend itself to sit-down play? I mean, assuming it does "work" sitting down, which games should work sitting down?

That will make a big difference to me.
UncleSporky
Member
(06-17-2010, 01:15 AM)
The only thing they can do to debunk this is to pull another "black guy wearing a black shirt" demo.
Wario64
works for Gamestop (lol)
(06-17-2010, 01:15 AM)

Originally Posted by Speevy

Here's another question.

What software did they demo that would actually lend itself to sit-down play? I mean, assuming it does "work" sitting down, which games should work sitting down?

That will make a big difference to me.

Uh, Forza?
NYR
Banned
(06-17-2010, 01:15 AM)
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Until I see a live, non-PR video of someone sitting down and playing it as well as using the menu/movie controls while sitting down, I totally believe this.

It seems logical that the camera would not be able to tell a person from a couch unless it recognized the entire skelatal frame.
markot
Junior Member
(06-17-2010, 01:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by Speevy

Here's another question.

What software did they demo that would actually lend itself to sit-down play? I mean, assuming it does "work" sitting down, which games should work sitting down?

That will make a big difference to me.

Kinectimals?
op_ivy
Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
(06-17-2010, 01:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by SloppehSlawlz

Isn't the point of Kinect is to stand up?

no, the point is controller free gaming. want to play forza kinect standing? want to navigate the xbl marketplace standing up? want to play a kinect rpg standing up? its a pretty big fucking deal if you game sitting...

... but i'm sure MS is aware of this and its a non-issue. it has to be, right? this isnt sega :lol
V_Ben
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(06-17-2010, 01:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Speevy

Here's another question.

What software did they demo that would actually lend itself to sit-down play? I mean, assuming it does "work" sitting down, which games should work sitting down?

That will make a big difference to me.

Kinectimals i'd say would work pretty well sitting down.
CoG
Member
(06-17-2010, 01:17 AM)
I was wondering how it would differentiate your lower body from the couch. It would have to be able to handle full and partial skeletal recognition with thousands of permutations and variables. Complex stuff.
Diffense
Member
(06-17-2010, 01:17 AM)
I am not likely to get Kinect and this is kind of stupid from a feature completeness standpoint but I question whether it is such a big deal.
The games that this is somewhat competent at (Dance, Fitness, Sports) will probably require that you get up off the couch anyway.
Having to stand to use movie playback controls is kind of lame but that is hardly a killer app anyway...remotes for the win.
Massa
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(06-17-2010, 01:17 AM)
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I suppose voice commands work while sitting down.
Speevy
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(06-17-2010, 01:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Wario64

Uh, Forza?


Oh yeah, that's right. Completely forgot about that one for some reason.
jufonuk
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(06-17-2010, 01:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by SloppehSlawlz

Isn't the point of Kinect is to stand up?

I agree with this.
it would be a waste, to make this controller option and have people sit down, would massivly defeat the object of what they had in mind with this.
maybe racing games would be the one game ideal for sitting down, the rest look like you need to be up on your feet and on the move.
TheGreatDave
Banned
(06-17-2010, 01:18 AM)
I can kinda expect this for the games. But if you're expected to stand up to move through a navigation menu, select video chat, find the person you want to speak to, connect, and only then be able to sit down, Microsoft have completely fuckin' lost it.
Terrordactyl
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(06-17-2010, 01:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by SloppehSlawlz

Isn't the point of Kinect is to stand up?

It's unfortunate that it's got so many problems, it sounds exactly like the eyetoy to be honest. You needed the lighting to be perfect for that to work, it also didn't work very well while sitting. On the plus side maybe it'll be cheaper than $150 since it doesn't seem like its that big of an improvement over the eyetoy. I might be swayed into buying it at $100 dollars with some store credit or something.
NYR
Banned
(06-17-2010, 01:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by op_ivy

no, the point is controller free gaming.

QFT
fernoca
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(06-17-2010, 01:19 AM)
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Another question; which game if any was shown that supports up to 4 players?
Because a point I see constantly is the "for Wii you need 4 remotes and that costs over $100 on top of the cost of the Wii; to have the same multiplayer experience.."....

Yet all the demos show were 2 players only....any update?
Stitch
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(06-17-2010, 01:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by markot

Kinectimals?

Nooo you have to jump around and hide behind your couch!!!1

I'm pretty sure that most living rooms aren't even big enough for kinect anyway. Another microsoft product that will fail in japan :lol
well maybe it will work with idolmasters...
Mudkips
Banned
(06-17-2010, 01:20 AM)
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Reposting my comment from the failed thread:

I hadn't seen any of the vids showing Kinect being used in any fashion while sitting.

Seriously.
Imagine watching a movie.
Kinect sees something move.

Are you:

Reaching for your drink
Stretching
Getting up to take a shit
Pointing your remote at the receiver to adjust the volume

Kinect has no way of knowing. Kinect trying to do something and getting it wrong would be more infuriating than Kinect demanding you speak to it ("XBAWKS, PWN NOOBS") or stand up front and center.

I guess what I'm saying is that this shouldn't have been news to anyone, but the fact that it is is hilarious.
-WindYoshi-
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(06-17-2010, 01:20 AM)
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If this problem is in the final build it will be very disappointing as the Kinect dashboard navigation is probably the best thing about the device. I always envisioned being seated while going through the menus with it.
X26
Banned
(06-17-2010, 01:20 AM)
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would be hilarious if true, but it doesn't make any sense, the only difference sitting vs. standing is the height of your hands while playing, in which case how tall the player is would have to matter as well but it obviously does not, since it was demo'd with short little kids and regular sized adults.

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