[Vic]

Out of curiosity why is Nintendo always so coy about revealing detailed spec sheets? Are they afraid Sony is going to gank their shit?

They did so with the N64 and Gamecube.

[DonMigs85]

Out of curiosity why is Nintendo always so coy about revealing detailed spec sheets? Are they afraid Sony is going to gank their shit?

It's because on paper they may not look too impressive next to their rivals.

[charlequin]

no self shadowing?

No, it does do self-shadowing as one of its slate of effects (and we have 3DS screenshots showing it off, apparently.) It's just not in the demo reel brain_stew linked.

[AceBandage]

Out of curiosity why is Nintendo always so coy about revealing detailed spec sheets? Are they afraid Sony is going to gank their shit?

They like to tease the internet.
They love reading our crack pot theories.

[Ignis Fatuus]

It's because on paper they may not look too impressive next to their rivals.

What rivals?

o.O

[Raistlin]

A smart move. It's economical but obviously very capable.

Yeah for a portable device, where power consumption is a prime concern, this is the smartest direction to go in.

[markot]

What did the DS launch at price wise?

An oldish gpu chip doesnt mean it will be cheaper, the 3d screen, 5.1 audio... etc...

[brain_stew]

This must be quite a coup for DMP.

I was considering looking into whether or not they were a public company and if they were buying some shares last week. Would have made a fortune! :lol :lol :lol

[AceBandage]

What did the DS launch at price wise? An oldish gpu chip doesnt mean it will be cheaper, the 3d screen, 5.1 audio... etc...

$150.

So, again, like I've said a million times before. The 3DS will be $180 at launch.
:D

[GDGF]

I wonder what Gigadent would have had to say about this.

[Ignis Fatuus]

What did the DS launch at price wise?

$150 off the top of my head, could be wrong.

I suspect that with the 3D shit and all else the 3DS will launch at $199.

[DonMigs85]

What rivals? o.O

LOL true.
I guess they just never want to risk being compared anyway, you know some dumb people out there will choose a machine solely because of higher numbers.

[Father_Brain]

After seeing the mostly-gushing impressions from E3, I've come around to the conclusion that Nintendo can probably get away with pricing the system over $200, up to $250 (though probably not higher), even if the manufacturing cost is well below $200; DSi is currently priced at a pretty massive profit, after all. I wouldn't recommend making any assumptions based solely on the fact that the GPU tech has been around for four years.

[brain_stew]

no self shadowing?

It supports soft self shadowing in hardware although that demo doesn't use it.


---------------------


Man, GAF are pretty mindblowing when we put our mind to a task! :D

Wonder how many other communities figured out this mystery weeks before E3?

[Snakeyes]

So it pushes 15.3 M polygons per second?

[brain_stew]

So it pushes 15.3 M polygons per second?

There's more than one chip based off the technology, so we really don't know quite how fast this thing is yet. Just what featureset it has.

[HAL_Laboratory]

I wouldn't recommend making any assumptions based solely on the fact that the GPU tech has been around for four years.

Yeah, that school of thought does not apply in this generation. People thought it did last generation, and we all saw how that turned out.

[Father_Brain]

Yeah, that school of thought does not apply in this generation. People thought it did last generation, and we all saw how that turned out.

If it weren't for the 3D screen, I'd agree that a sub-$200 price point would be a fairly safe bet. But there's a very good chance that from Nintendo's perspective, the wow factor from the 3D will be enough to justify an additional premium; exactly how much remains to be seen, of course.

[big_z]

dont get to excited nintendo loves to use custom technology so while this is the chip they're using who knows how they've dumbed it down for the 3DS.

until a developer shares final specs with us there's no reason to look into things too deeply.

[Snakeyes]

Well, at least it seems like the clock speed may be higher than the GC's Flipper (162 MHz).

[MattyGrovesOrMe]

Will this GPU adequately facilitate my shooting of zombies/nazis/terrorists/thugs/aliens/subaltern people in three dimensions?

[charlequin]

dont get to excited nintendo loves to use custom technology so while this is the chip they're using who knows how they've dumbed it down for the 3DS.

The chip's already "dumbed down" to start with, it's built around fixed-purpose reproductions of programmable shader effects. It... really wouldn't make sense to start from this point and "dumb it down" further. :lol

[Snakeyes]

So the OpenGL ES 2.0 SMAPH-S was THAT much more expensive and power hungry?

smh

Don't be surprised when the third parties that are supporting you now jump ship to the more powerful iPhone 5 in about 2 years, Nintendo :(

[charlequin]

So the OpenGL ES 2.0 SMAPH-S was THAT much more expensive and power hungry?

The same SMAPH-S that literally only started shipping like three months ago?

[AceBandage]

So the OpenGL ES 2.0 SMAPH-S was THAT much more expensive and power hungry? smh Don't be surprised when the third parties that are supporting you now jump ship to the more powerful iPhone 5 in about 2 years, Nintendo :(

Haha, iPhone.

[brain_stew]

So the OpenGL ES 2.0 SMAPH-S was THAT much more expensive and power hungry? smh

There's more than one version of the chip. A less flexible chip with higher throughput may be a better choice when it comes to power efficiency. If a fixed function design can allow developers to easily implement most of the shader effects we were hoping of seeing, then why not buy yourself that extra efficiency? Nintendo could be using the version with 4 vertex shaders and 4 TMUs for all we know and that'd certainly be better than a unified architecture with just one TMU and one unified shader.

This isn't Flipper levels of developer restraints. It still has a full vertex shader and a lot more of effects hard wired, sub surface scattering, really nice quality soft shadows and self shadowing (which developers are already using), per pixel lighting (which is already seeing good use), tessellation and more.

[Ignis Fatuus]

So the OpenGL ES 2.0 SMAPH-S was THAT much more expensive and power hungry? smh Don't be surprised when the third parties that are supporting you now jump ship to the more powerful iPhone 5 in about 2 years, Nintendo :(

Nintendo are such complacent swine.

Bring me my flip flops!

[BDGAME]

Thanks Nintendo to choose a chip name "PICA", that Means "DICK" in Portuguese.

Now all Brazilians are make dick jokes with this.

[GoldenEye 007]

So the OpenGL ES 2.0 SMAPH-S was THAT much more expensive and power hungry? smh Don't be surprised when the third parties that are supporting you now jump ship to the more powerful iPhone 5 in about 2 years, Nintendo :(

In two years, 3DS will probably be a gravy train. So... yeah...

From the looks of this, it will be stupid easy and quick to get similar modern shader performance and techniques. Which is great.

[Wii]

That's actually a pretty good setup, can't wait to write homebrew for it

[Raistlin]

dont get to excited nintendo loves to use custom technology so while this is the chip they're using who knows how they've dumbed it down for the 3DS. until a developer shares final specs with us there's no reason to look into things too deeply.

:lol

I love the implication that Nintendo customization can only be a downgrade

[DonMigs85]

Thanks Nintendo to choose a chip name "PICA", that Means "DICK" in Portuguese. Now all Brazilians are make dick jokes with this.

[brain_stew]

No MSAA support ofcourse which sucks balls. Guess Quaz51 really was right about Nintendo using jittered samples in 2D mode for free supersampling.

[Thunder Monkey]

Wow. :lol

15 million polygons looks about right from what we were seeing. A fixed function design built around modern day effects. :lol

For a handheld that's a boatload of power.

It fits with Nintendo's design since the GCN to a T. They want it to be easy to get a lot of effects running in tandem. They had a very different idea of what that was in the GCN era, or what was technically feasible.

We are looking at some impressive games in the future of this platform. Once they really understand the hardware, and know how to maximize what's there.

[yencid]

Thanks Nintendo to choose a chip name "PICA", that Means "DICK" in Portuguese. Now all Brazilians are make dick jokes with this.

really doubt all Brazilians care about the chip itself...

[Technosteve]

subdivision primitives? aka tessellation?

[GDGF]

I want more real time demos. That samurai was pretty sweet.

Tell us more about this NURBS thing. I remember back when people thought the Flipper would be capable of NURBS.

[brain_stew]

One big sucky point is that the chip doesn't support MSAA! :(

If Quaz51's theory about you getting free 2x supersampling in 2D mode is correct I think I'm going to have to give up the stereo3D! :lol

I wouldn't have bothered if games were using 2xmsaa in S3D mode but since we now know they'll all have absolutely zero antialiasing, that 2x supersampling is sounding awfully appealing!

[brain_stew]

subdivision primitives? aka tessellation?

Yes. The cloth and the pans in that demo use it. All is explained in those slides I linked to.

[Ignis Fatuus]

brain_stew is making my brain hurt.

[Mudkips]

What did the DS launch at price wise? An oldish gpu chip doesnt mean it will be cheaper, the 3d screen, 5.1 audio... etc...

STOP spreading the 5.1 audio bullshit.
STOP.

[brain_stew]

I want more real time demos. That samurai was pretty sweet. Tell us more about this NURBS thing and the procedural texturing. I remember back when people thought the Flipper would be capable of NURBS.

Developers aren't going to be using NURBs. The tessellation hardware may get some use but if the 360 is any indication, then it probably won't be widely adopted.

[Ignis Fatuus]

STOP spreading the 5.1 audio bullshit. STOP.

Did someone contradict Kojima?

[ILikeFeet]

Thanks Nintendo to choose a chip name "PICA", that Means "DICK" in Portuguese. Now all Brazilians are make dick jokes with this.

So far this thing is sex, so it must be a pretty big pica. No homo (just came from the new Boondocks episode)

[Kandinsky]

Thanks Nintendo to choose a chip name "PICA", that Means "DICK" in Portuguese. Now all Brazilians are make dick jokes with this.

Way to overreact, nobody gives a shit about chip names:lol

[brain_stew]

brain_stew is making my brain hurt.

Basically, if you play games with the 3D effect enabled, then no 3DS games will have anti aliasing. Jittered samples producing a supersampling effect is something Nintendo could do to enable free antialiasing in 2D mode and we already have evidence suggesting this is precisely what they are doing. Unlike traditional MSAA that you see in PS3/360 games, this mean it will be applied to the whole image and thus it should look fantastic, but ofcourse, no 3D depth.

[Mudkips]

Did someone contradict Kojima?

KOJIMA contradicted Kojima.
He simply compared the immersion 3D offers to the immersion 5.1 audio offers.

http://e3.nintendo.com/interviews/#/?v=interview_kojima

The graphics improved and we can now hear in 5.1, but these were only quality advancements in terms of 2D images. But now you can really feel depth and realism has drastically improved, so you can really feel a sense of immersion.

[Instro]

One big sucky point is that the chip doesn't support MSAA! :( If Quaz51's theory about you getting free 2x supersampling in 2D mode is correct I think I'm going to have to give up the stereo3D! :lol I wouldn't have bothered if games were using 2xmsaa in S3D mode but since we now know they'll all have absolutely zero antialiasing, that 2x supersampling is sounding awfully appealing!

So what does "full scene anti aliasing" mean in the specs then exactly as compared to MSAA?

[GoldenEye 007]

One big sucky point is that the chip doesn't support MSAA! :( If Quaz51's theory about you getting free 2x supersampling in 2D mode is correct I think I'm going to have to give up the stereo3D! :lol I wouldn't have bothered if games were using 2xmsaa in S3D mode but since we now know they'll all have absolutely zero antialiasing, that 2x supersampling is sounding awfully appealing!

What is the difference between that and full scene anti-aliasing?

[Gahiggidy]

Do you think thing could run luigis mansion? Would the texture quality, poly detail and effects all be there?