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corrosivefrost
Member
(07-24-2010, 04:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by Irish

See, that's the thing. Old Cole and New Cole looked pretty similar. It's not like one version looked like Genghis Khan and the other one looked like Al Sharpton.

Looks radically different to me:

[IMG]http://i26.************/35m0ffl.png[/IMG]

vs.

[IMG]http://i30.************/2wf2rmg.jpg[/IMG]

(again, face shape, eyes, etc.)
Redbeard
Banned
(07-24-2010, 04:39 AM)
[img]http://i26.************/35m0ffl.png[/img]

New cole is so much better than old cole

This is ridiculous, Sucker Punch make the character you want, fuck the fanboys that are resistant to any change
Irish
Member
(07-24-2010, 04:41 AM)
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That's another problem. I'm not even sure which is new Cole anymore. Sucker Punch has released screenshots of at least a dozen different versions. My personal favorite was GI Concept Cole. :(
Segata Sanshiro
(07-24-2010, 04:41 AM)

Originally Posted by Yoboman

The difference isn't nearly as big as that, so stop the unnecessary comparison. All they did was change his face a little and give him hair, and he is hardly an iconic character to begin with so they have the leverage to do that.

You're moving your goalposts, friend. You said:

It's not a real person, they shouldn't have to stick to the confines of one design

so I don't see why my comparison is unnecessary. New Cole and Old Cole are different enough to identifiably be separate people. I would not even confuse them for family. Whether or not he's iconic is irrelevant. Completely switching out the appearance of the character (all the way down to facial structure and age) creates a break in continuity between the two games, and it is totally unnecessary to do so. It's not like there's a contract dispute with old Cole. It's not like old Cole just doesn't have the acting chops to handle the role.
corrosivefrost
Member
(07-24-2010, 04:42 AM)
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The more I look at new cole, the more he looks like they copied Nathan Drake. At that point, they should have just got Nolan North to do the voice. :lol
Yoboman
Banned
(07-24-2010, 04:44 AM)

Originally Posted by corrosivefrost

Looks radically different to me:

[IMG]http://i26.************/35m0ffl.png[/IMG]

vs.

[IMG]http://i30.************/2wf2rmg.jpg[/IMG]

(again, face shape, eyes, etc.)

Ugh old Cole is so terrible
HooYaH
Member
(07-24-2010, 04:45 AM)
HooYaH's Avatar
[IMG]http://i27.************/30tkl1y.jpg[/IMG]

The Cole in the video sure looks like David Beckham.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
(07-24-2010, 04:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by Redbeard

[img]http://i26.************/35m0ffl.png[/img]

New cole is so much better than old cole

This is ridiculous, Sucker Punch make the character you want, fuck the fanboys that are resistant to any change

Why, because he's better looking? Why does that matter? If a movie starred Willem Dafoe, are you going to dimiss it because he's no GQ model?

I say fuck the fanboys who are resistant to accept that new Cole breaks continuity. See, I can be just as lame.
Yoboman
Banned
(07-24-2010, 04:48 AM)

Originally Posted by Segata Sanshiro

You're moving your goalposts, friend. You said:


so I don't see why my comparison is unnecessary. New Cole and Old Cole are different enough to identifiably be separate people. I would not even confuse them for family. Whether or not he's iconic is irrelevant. Completely switching out the appearance of the character (all the way down to facial structure and age) creates a break in continuity between the two games, and it is totally unnecessary to do so. It's not like there's a contract dispute with old Cole. It's not like old Cole just doesn't have the acting chops to handle the role.

Because there is obviously a point where changing the design dramatically is detrimental, you wouldn't do it in something like MGS. Changing a character like Cole's design while they still can is not detrimental to the product when it was so bad to begin with.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
(07-24-2010, 04:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by corrosivefrost

The more I look at new cole, the more he looks like they copied Nathan Drake. At that point, they should have just got Nolan North to do the voice. :lol

That's what sucks about New Flavor Cole-a. I'm sure he looks "cooler" to some people, but he also looks exactly like EVERY OTHER GUY in every other game like this out right now. He looks like he walked out of a focus testing room.

Nobody is claiming OG Cole is the best character design of all time. He isn't. Not even by half. However, he is actually not as generic as the current standard stock character in every western game.

LOL at people invoking "fanboys resistant to change" arguments for this one. No, sorry guys, this one was just people resistant to boneheaded design decisions.
Yoboman
Banned
(07-24-2010, 04:49 AM)

Originally Posted by Kaijima

That's what sucks about New Flavor Cole-a. I'm sure he looks "cooler" to some people, but he also looks exactly like EVERY OTHER GUY in every other game like this out right now. He looks like he walked out of a focus testing room.

Nobody is claiming OG Cole is the best character design of all time. He isn't. Not even by half. However, he is actually not as generic as the current standard stock character in every western game.

LOL at people invoking "fanboys resistant to change" arguments for this one. No, sorry guys, this one was just people resistant to boneheaded design decisions.

Bald generic character designs are far more prevalent than Nathan Drake knock-offs
Redbeard
Banned
(07-24-2010, 04:50 AM)

Originally Posted by MoonsaultSlayer

Why, because he's better looking? Why does that matter? If a movie starred Willem Dafoe, are you going to dimiss it because he's no GQ model?

I say fuck the fanboys who are resistant to accept that new Cole breaks continuity. See, I can be just as lame.

Yes, because he's better looking and more appealing in general.

No, I won't dismiss Willem Dafoe in a movie, but he's usually playing fucked up villains and not superheroes, if you catch my drift.

The old cole is just so bald and generic, it's like everything bad about character design this gen. Nathan Hale and Cole are indistinguishable. New Cole at least looks fairly unique.
BobTheFork
Member
(07-24-2010, 04:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by Redbeard

[img]http://i26.************/35m0ffl.png[/img]

New cole is so much better than old cole

This is ridiculous, Sucker Punch make the character you want, fuck the fanboys that are resistant to any change

They did make the character they want, he was in the first infamous, but then they CHANGED it because of fanboy bitching so we can all be happy now. They are keeping it the same and not caving in, and they are using the better design.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
(07-24-2010, 04:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Yoboman

Ugh old Cole is so terrible

He's a character.... wtf do you want?

Did you cry because Raziel was decayed and missing a jaw?

Does it upset you that Mario is a short, fat plumber?

What about Link who wears tights...

He's an ugly-ass ordinary character who was thrown into this chaotic world. I love it and love SP's balls for making a pathetic character work. I hated the way he looked but got hooked because of the gameplay and story and now prefer it and understand it. I don't need to have good looks, tattoos, and bandages to represent a character I play as in a videogame. I liked having the ordinary doing the incredible.
fernoca
Member
(07-24-2010, 04:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by MoonsaultSlayer

"Instead, listen to the people you have polled who may not have played a videogame in their life. When the majority of people in your targeted demographic say they'd rather play as character B because he seems totally radical, go with that and assume your audience and fanbase are going to prefer this character as well.

When that backfires and you revert back to the original, you should think twice because those of us who prefered the new look are the only ones who are allowed to have an opinion as to how you should design Cole."

Though he's design 101 comment is a well know rule..maybe not an actual rule, more like a guideline...

But in your posts you go to the extremes; as if "the true fans" liked the original, hated the new one; and "people that haven't played a videogame in their life" were the ones that liked the new one..

What about those of that liked his look in the first game and liked (and in my case prefered) the redeisgn in this new one?

Or those that just didn't care, because they just wanted to play more inFamous?

But when it comes to "drastic" changes is always the same..
Look at Splinter Cell and "Hobo Sam"..then when they changed it back to his more familiar look "Were's mah Hobo Sam Ubisoft?"..or the new Max Payne (lol bald and fat WTF?)....or the classic "lol that looks liek a cartoon what the fuck Nintendo? Celda?"..

And heck, based on the crappy blurry pic that was posted (unless it was fake or old), it seems as if the "redesign after listening to fans" is the same character/clothes, but bald...but we'll have to wait for better pictures; not even artwork..since there were 2 different artworks of the previous one...with the one in the game looking more closer to the one from the Game Informer cover, than the artwork that was inside the magazine article per se..

There are always going to be lovers, haters, people that approve, people that don't. But if developers in general have shown one thing, is that they work better when they look for input, but make their own choices.
Segata Sanshiro
(07-24-2010, 04:54 AM)

Originally Posted by Yoboman

Because there is obviously a point where changing the design dramatically is detrimental, you wouldn't do it in something like MGS. Changing a character like Cole's design while they still can is not detrimental to the product when it was so bad to begin with.

It's already too late to change him. When you're dealing with something that will probably be a three game series, completely changing the entire look of the character down to the last detail after even one game is a pretty shitty idea.
AAK
Member
(07-24-2010, 04:54 AM)
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I didn't mind the initial change, but the fact that they went back to the original design makes it look more and more like a sequel rather than a reboot which was my honest first impression (new setting, new VA, new character designs)

I just hope that we can visit empire city again later on in Infamous 2 :D
Irish
Member
(07-24-2010, 04:56 AM)
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I'm not even sure who New Cole is anymore. The one I call New Cole is G4.

B ______________I_______________N______________G _________________ O
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
(07-24-2010, 04:58 AM)
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I could learn to live with the look of Nu Cole, but the voice of the new guy just really threw it off for me.

I'm generally in agreement with the people arguing for continuity though. I don't think anyone is saying that the original Cole was some fantastic triumph of character design, but rather that the story was told well enough that we grew to like Cole 1.0 despite his appearance and, it sounds like, some of us even warmed up to the look.

I say put a little more hair on his head and leave it at that.
Last edited by Baraka in the White House; 07-24-2010 at 05:03 AM.
corrosivefrost
Member
(07-24-2010, 04:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by Redbeard

Yes, because he's better looking and more appealing in general.

No, I won't dismiss Willem Dafoe in a movie, but he's usually playing fucked up villains and not superheroes, if you catch my drift.

The old cole is just so bald and generic, it's like everything bad about character design this gen. Nathan Hale and Cole are indistinguishable. New Cole at least looks fairly unique.

Nathan Hale or Nathan Drake.

He's still a fscking retread. Keep the one that DOESN'T break continuity.
truly101
I got grudge sucked!
(07-24-2010, 04:59 AM)
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New Cole was fine, I just wish they made him Inuit.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
(07-24-2010, 04:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by Yoboman

Bald generic character designs are far more prevalent than Nathan Drake knock-offs

I'm not sure if you understand the word generic. Cole 1 is ugly and nowhere near as cool/tough/handsome as every other game character out there that you lump him in with.

And I'd bet most of those devs who use bald characters will tell you they did it because they didn't want to deal with trying to make hair look good. The only other option, it seems, is making Nathan Drake-like hair. The hair doesn't even bother me and shouldn't even be factored into this debate at all because none of us who prefer the old Cole give 2 shits about hair. It's the facial structure and overall look and age of the character that upsets us.... not to mention personality.
cjtiger300
Member
(07-24-2010, 05:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by Irish

I'm not even sure who New Cole is anymore. The one I call New Cole is G4.

B ______________I_______________N______________G _________________ O


Damn it Broken, everyone knows they should just make him like old Cole with ginger hair! Seriously, we gingers need a protagonist!!!!!!!!! vs's would agree!!!!!
Segata Sanshiro
(07-24-2010, 05:03 AM)

Originally Posted by Redbeard

Yes, because he's better looking and more appealing in general.

No, I won't dismiss Willem Dafoe in a movie, but he's usually playing fucked up villains and not superheroes, if you catch my drift.

The old cole is just so bald and generic, it's like everything bad about character design this gen. Nathan Hale and Cole are indistinguishable. New Cole at least looks fairly unique.

Old Cole looks like Jason Statham, if you ask me. Old Cole is neither bald (he's got a little hair) nor generic (most game characters look like a typical action hero of some sort. Cole is ugly and not particularly macho-looking). Aside from his choice of haircut, he doesn't look anything like Nathan Hale.

I don't see how someone could call Old Cole generic and New Cole unique, I really don't. I'd say New Cole is a far more generic-looking character. I could swing a cat and hit fifty New Coles in Hollywood.
cjtiger300
Member
(07-24-2010, 05:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by DOO13ER

I could learn to live with the look of Nu Cole, but the voice of the new guy just really threw it off for me.


Watch this http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/...-con-cutscene/

Sounds pretty damn good to me!
corrosivefrost
Member
(07-24-2010, 05:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by fernoca

Though he's design 101 comment is a well know rule..maybe not an actual rule, more like a guideline...

But in your posts you go to the extremes; as if "the true fans" liked the original, hated the new one; and "people that haven't played a videogame in their life" were the ones that liked the new one..

What about those of that liked his look in the first game and liked (and in my case prefered) the redeisgn in this new one?

Or those that just didn't care, because they just wanted to play more inFamous?

But when it comes to "drastic" changes is always the same..
Look at Splinter Cell and "Hobo Sam"..then when they changed it back to his more familiar look "Were's mah Hobo Sam Ubisoft?"..or the new Max Payne (lol bald and fat WTF?)....or the classic "lol that looks liek a cartoon what the fuck Nintendo? Celda?"..

And heck, based on the crappy blurry pic that was posted (unless it was fake or old), it seems as if the "redesign after listening to fans" is the same character/clothes, but bald...but we'll have to wait for better pictures; not even artwork..since there were 2 different artworks of the previous one...with the one in the game looking more closer to the one from the Game Informer cover, than the artwork that was inside the magazine article per se..

There are always going to be lovers, haters, people that approve, people that don't. But if developers in general have shown one thing, is that they work better when they look for input, but make their own choices.

Changing Max Payne to be old/bald/overweight is something that could happen. Changing the artistic style of a game? No problem. Changing the entire character's design? Problem.

The number one example of this that comes to mind is Capcom with Ryu. But that's a bit of a different situation.
JaseC
gave away the keys to the kingdom.
(07-24-2010, 05:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Redbeard

http://i26.************/35m0ffl.png

New cole is so much better than old cole

This is ridiculous, Sucker Punch make the character you want, fuck the fanboys that are resistant to any change

Many of those who decried the change in the first place are now against Sucker Punch's decision to change the design to something more resembling the original. Fucking pathetic. :lol
cjtiger300
Member
(07-24-2010, 05:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by Segata Sanshiro

Old Cole looks like Jason Statham, if you ask me. Old Cole is neither bald (he's got a little hair) nor generic (most game characters look like a typical action hero of some sort. Cole is ugly and not particularly macho-looking). Aside from his choice of haircut, he doesn't look anything like Nathan Hale.

I don't see how someone could call Old Cole generic and New Cole unique, I really don't. I'd say New Cole is a far more generic-looking character. I could swing a cat and hit fifty New Coles in Hollywood.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Y2Kev
The Last Guardian is Dead. Sorry.
(07-24-2010, 05:10 AM)
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I really like NewCole Squared™'s kinda protolook. Take original Cole, soften the facial features to make him look younger, smooth out his skin a little, and you're good to go. The total redesign was unfortunate--regardless of what you think of the design, it just creates continuity problems. And all those tattoos look like something out of Mirror's Edge. I don't really think it fit the universe of the game.

They could have just made it like Cole's son. Or Alternate Cole shocked into being by Kessler. No need to be so....I dunno, canonical. But if you're going to be that way, you gotta make it LOOK like the same guy.
Irish
Member
(07-24-2010, 05:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by MoonsaultSlayer

It's the facial structure and overall look and age of the character that upsets us.... not to mention personality.

Not this shit again. Personality is not based on looks. From the videos, new Cole acts exactly like old Cole.

Then again, I guess all the "true fans" forgot about Cole screaming "OH HELL YEAH!" and having genuine fun when he discovered he could grind on powerlines and whatnot.
jett
Member
(07-24-2010, 05:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by HooYaH

[IMG]http://i27.************/30tkl1y.jpg[/IMG]

The Cole in the video sure looks like David Beckham.

That's not too bad, I'd like to see how he looks in-game. Seems they've gone full bald instead of a shaved head for some reason.
fernoca
Member
(07-24-2010, 05:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by corrosivefrost

Changing Max Payne to be old/bald/overweight is something that could happen. Changing the artistic style of a game? No problem. Changing the entire character's design? Problem.

The number one example of this that comes to mind is Capcom with Ryu. But that's a bit of a different situation.

But how is a problem?
According to the developers, the change in look and attitude of the character (aside "fan feedback" and the "skateboard thing") was because they wanted to show a Cole that was more ..comfortable, and happy with his powers. That accepted his powers as a gift, instead of a curse....so they decided to change many things. Granted, is not like the original Cole was that serious...but he acted more pissed off because of the events happening to him and around him.

Same with Zeke and they wanting a more friendly and ready to fight-look, granted Zeke's change wasn't as "drastic"....and people would be screaming if they made Zeke skinny-fit..but still.. :lol
NotTheGuyYouKill
(07-24-2010, 05:21 AM)
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If they've made him bald again, I will punch a fucking wall.
Bad_Boy
time to take my meds
(07-24-2010, 05:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by HooYaH

[IMG]http://i27.************/30tkl1y.jpg[/IMG]

The Cole in the video sure looks like David Beckham.

ok that cole is the perfect cole. DONT CHANGE IT AGAIN SP.
Segata Sanshiro
(07-24-2010, 05:22 AM)

Originally Posted by Irish

Not this shit again. Personality is not based on looks. From the videos, new Cole acts exactly like old Cole.

Not to disagree with your point (I expect Cole to behave similarly regardless of how he looks), but personality is often highly influenced by appearance, both in terms of how we perceive ourselves and how we perceive others. You could have Old Cole and New Cole doing and saying the exact same things and most people would perceive them to have different personalities based on the extreme difference in their appearance.
Ether_Snake
安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
(07-24-2010, 05:24 AM)
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Uuuh??? I didn't see anything wrong with the character designer, unless being better than the first is not considered an improvement??
Rapping Granny
Banned
(07-24-2010, 05:25 AM)

Originally Posted by jett

That's not too bad, I'd like to see how he looks in-game. Seems they've gone full bald instead of a shaved head for some reason.

Never go full bald, you'll lose sales to the dudebro crowd.
dilatedmuscle
Member
(07-24-2010, 05:26 AM)
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I dont understand why they made him look like such a tool for the sequel in the first place.
Y2Kev
The Last Guardian is Dead. Sorry.
(07-24-2010, 05:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by dilatedmuscle

I dont understand why they made him look like such a tool for the sequel in the first place.

I don't know WHAT he looked like. His in-game model looked different than the GameInformer cover that looked different from the art. It was just a mess.
eznark
john deere tramp stamp
(07-24-2010, 05:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ether_Snake

Uuuh??? I didn't see anything wrong with the character designer, unless being better than the first is not considered an improvement??

Every protagonist needs more tribal tats and pookah shells.
Segata Sanshiro
(07-24-2010, 05:30 AM)

Originally Posted by Ether_Snake

Uuuh??? I didn't see anything wrong with the character designer, unless being better than the first is not considered an improvement??

The problem wasn't whether he was better or worse or improved or green eggs and ham, it was that he looked like a completely different guy down to the last detail but was still supposed to be the same guy.

Like I said earlier, I'd be totally okay and even happy if they altered Old Cole's appearance to reflect his supposed new attitude, but within the realm of believability. Growing out the hair, growing a little facial hair, wearing some new duds, even getting a tatty or two, that's all fine by me. Total facial reconstruction and de-aging 10 years, not so much.
ShockingAlberto
Member
(07-24-2010, 05:33 AM)
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My problem with new Cole, besides the tribal tattoos, was how cynical and unnecessary the changes were.

It'd be one thing if Sucker Punch said "Yeah, Cole decided to start fresh and put his past behind him, so he grew out his hair and changed his clothes." That's a reasonable excuse!

But they pretty explicitly said "Some people didn't like the original Cole we designed, and this design tests well, so we're going with this."

This is why I'm raising an eyebrow at all the people imploring Sucker Punch to stick to their original vision and not listen to fan outcries. If you wanted that, wouldn't you have wanted the original design from inFamous 1 from the getgo?

Or, let me put it another way: If the news story were "Sucker Punch casts off focus testing, returns Cole back to his original design," do you think you'd stay quiet or find a new angle to complain from?
hxa155
Member
(07-24-2010, 05:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by Y2Kev

I don't know WHAT he looked like. His in-game model looked different than the GameInformer cover that looked different from the art. It was just a mess.

The comic cutscene looks a bit different too.
SapientWolf
Member
(07-24-2010, 05:35 AM)
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The Prototype guys already created the definitive Cole McGrath, as far as I'm concerned.
ShockingAlberto
Member
(07-24-2010, 05:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Irish

Not this shit again. Personality is not based on looks. From the videos, new Cole acts exactly like old Cole.

For what it's worth, the original Game Informer article specifically did mention a personality change for Cole to not be so downtrodden and pessimistic and more happy and wise-crackin'.
Jonnyboy117
Member
(07-24-2010, 05:38 AM)
Both versions are lame. I hope they go to something new and different.
Castle Doctrine
Member
(07-24-2010, 05:53 AM)
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Okay that David Beckham Cole isn't too bad, I'd have to see more pictures though. Still, I was hoping the guy had hair. I'm tired of bald guys.
Azure Dream
Member
(07-24-2010, 06:03 AM)
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Kind of odd for them to pan by this during the interview, since I doubt it was an early Cole design. There's no character by this name in Sly Cooper, to my quick check.

Love the letter on the right. :lol
seady
Member
(07-24-2010, 06:59 AM)
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Remember the reaction of this when it was first revealed? Now it is one of the most beloved and memorable art direction ever in a game.

What would it be had Nintendo freaked out and pulled the plug after that outcry? That's the difference between a developer that have faith in themselves and a developer that does not.

Gilgamesh
Member
(07-24-2010, 07:07 AM)
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Man, what the hell is with the 5000 designs they've made for Cole? I liked the one they had on the Game Informer cover...

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