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Puppet Shadow
Member
(04-17-2013, 05:51 PM)
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It's only been a few hours. Not everyone checks the internet 24/7.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
(04-17-2013, 07:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by kafiend

If phisheep isn't talking in here, makes you wonder who he's talking to.

I've got a business to run as well guys! Spent today serving customers (including emergency rescue of one from a dentist, long story) and teaching jewellery-making. Just got home and got the news via PM from Kendle will report shortly (after a stiff whisky).
cilonen
Member
(04-17-2013, 07:34 PM)
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phisheep, Kendle, much props and fantastic - phi, you deserve some sort of medal for your reporting, summation and diligence - if there is a book, I'll buy and Kendle, as someone who got trolled via the courts in all of this, justice must feel sweet right now.

Awesome news guys.
Armoured Priest
Member
(04-17-2013, 08:37 PM)
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Definately mad props to you, phisheep. I only read through this thread about two weeks ago, but its been a facinating read. You're right, most game industry stuff is kind of boring (a close friend of mine is a lawyer and my fiancee is poly-sci, and while I'm not-either, I do have a philosophy background, so we have many discussions about law and case decissions and such). This one, though...man.

If you do end up writing a book, you can count on my money. :)
Graphics Horse
graphics horse
graphics horse
does whatever a
graphics horse does
(04-17-2013, 08:42 PM)
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Ding, dong, the Edge™ is dead.
Samurai_Heart
Member
(04-17-2013, 08:58 PM)
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This has been a long journey coming, much appreciation to phisheep for the constant updates. Too bad there are many more patent trolls still out there =/, but so glad this one got quashed =D
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
(04-17-2013, 09:13 PM)
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As Kendle indicated above (and total props to Kendle for breaking the news, he may be new to GAF but I've known him a long time on ChaosEdge and that was an absolute blinder of a first post!) four out of the five trademarks at issue in EA v Edge Games have now been cancelled “by court order”. The ruling is here.

And rather neatly it is the 100th filing in the TTAB case. (Also since my last update we’ve passed 100,000 views of this thread too).

It’s true.

It’s real.

They are gone.

And also, at least so far as I can see from here, Langdell has not yet filed any motion (as he has continually threatened to do over the last six months or so) in the District Court to have their judgment overturned. Nor has he (yet) filed an appeal.

This puts Langdell at a serious disadvantage in any appeal, as he must now argue to have the trademarks reinstated rather than merely (merely? hah!) have the judgment overturned. Which would probably involve things like having to prove continual use in commerce, continual use in commerce for all the trademark categories (for example, quite apart from not having sold any games there is bugger all evidence that he has ever sold a single T-shirt, USB stick, coffee mug, pen let alone a blockbuster movie) as well as absence of fraud and absence of abandonment. Though to be quite honest I will grant that he’s not abandoned any of the trademarks on the grounds that he never validly had them in the first place.

However, there are a whole load of loose ends to clear up. I’ll have to think about some of these a bit but here are my initial reactions:

1) Is it time for a party?

Yes it is. Quite apart from any private parties you guys might want to hold, I’d like to hold a party here in this thread. We deserve it, it has been a long run for all of us (and longer for you than for me, because usually you have been left hanging around for ages, while at least I knew when nothing was happening!).

I suggest Monday 22nd April at 8:00 pm UK time (that’s 9pm Europe, 3pm East Coast, 12 noon West Coast) – it is a bit hard to find a time that suits everyone (and Monday is my only day off) – so if that is OK with you I intend to be here and on the button for two hours at least (sigh, probably five – two hours always turns out to be five) to enjoy the moment with you guys. It being the internet and all that, you will have to bring your own wine and nibbles, but other than that it is like any other party – just have fun.

2) New thread for new news?

Yeah. I’ll post one later tonight – probably a couple of hours time as there’s a bit to do (not to mention the ironing). It’s a fair enough rule. For starters it is going to refer back to this thread (so mods, don’t knock this one on the head just yet because (a) we’re going to have a party on Monday (b) it’ll take a while to get the content transferred over, especially since the UK IPO changed their system a few weeks back and many links are broken.

I'll drop mods a PM later on to suggest an acceptable approach.

3) Loose ends?

Plenty.

One of the five trademarks hasn’t been cancelled by court order (because it had been cancelled before for another reason), which might make it easier to reinstate.

There’s still a trademark in Germany.

There are still several trademarks in the UK. And actions going on.

Langdell still has (at least) three companies that appear to be trading (if they are trading at all) on the back of fraudulent trademarks and none of them are bankrupt yet.

There are still unresolved issues of fraud, blackmail, perjury, falsifying evidence and a bundle of other criminal charges.

There’s still the remotest possibility of appeal.

And, of course, EA haven’t yet dropped the case at TTAB (which could still yet lead to judicial findings of fraud).

4) Stuff in the meanwhile?

It’ll take me at least several days to come back with an assessment of the legal position going forward (which now encompasses far more that EA/Future versus Edge – now that the trademarks are gone it is sensible to consider further civil suits by other affected parties, like Edgegamers, Mobigames, Marvel etc etc).

5) What’s the BIG question?

The big question is why it took the US justice system nearly three years to enforce a court order.

There are lots of lesser questions, like why did the UK IPO admit a trademark registration to an unidentified body, like why did Future intervene in the TTAB case, like why did ….. oh, there’s loads of them.

The REALLY BIG question is how come justice was not done for so many years, and the big answer to how it got resolved is because of open justice and the internet (and specifically ChaosEdge). That’s a damn huge argument for open justice – which has been way more open here than in most UK cases for example, in being able to analyse every filing. It isn’t like it is excessive either, the RFCExpress site reports something marginally over 1000 viewings for this case, which by my count is nearly all me.

There are other big questions as well, but I’m sure I will get onto those eventually and in another thread.



Enormous thanks to everyone who has followed this thread. I know I got a bit tetchy at times during particularly horrible doldrum periods, but I can tell by the view counts that people kept watching. Sometimes I just had this horrible feeling it would all go bad and nobody would notice!

This has been a rather off-the-cuff post – I’ll have to do another later (and also update the OP and various other things).


EDIT: Dammit, forgot to update the OP. Will have to wait a bit.
Last edited by phisheep; 04-22-2013 at 06:35 AM.
Azih
Member
(04-17-2013, 09:41 PM)
This has been an astounding few years. Glad to have been a lurker! Thanks phisheep!
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
(04-17-2013, 10:17 PM)
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OK guys, new thread is here.

But I'd be really grateful if you don't post in it until Tuesday when I've had the chance to work out how to structure it. We're at the point again where the entire internet might think something is over but it ain't that easy. Not necessarily.
Zodzilla
Member
(04-17-2013, 10:34 PM)
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I just wanted to say - after following this thread for the last couple of years - many thanks to you, Phisheep. It's been a hell of a ride (even if we haven't quite gotten off the coaster yet), and due to your plain english writeups and limitless patience, I (and many people who have been tracking this) owe you a large debt of gratitude for your commitment to this case so far. Thanks!
Magna_Mixalis
Member
(04-17-2013, 10:43 PM)
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And subscribed!

Will be here for the grand celebration of common sense's (tentative) victory over the forces of gross stubborn idiocy!

Oh, and phisheep, you forgot to answer the question we've (I've) badgered you with now that things (might) be over: Book?
theaface
Member
(04-17-2013, 10:48 PM)
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I'd just like to echo the sentiment of many in this thread and say a big thank you to Phisheep for his stellar work in this thread. It's been consistently fascinating and always articulated in a concise and informative way. No mean feat given the complexity of the subject matter. Outstanding stuff, well done.
hunnies28
Member
(04-17-2013, 10:52 PM)
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Subscribed.

Thanks a lot phisheep.
dogmanstaruk
Member
(04-17-2013, 10:54 PM)
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Thanks for all your work. It has been a fantastic thread allowing me to easily keep up to date with the downfall of Langdell.
Juan29.zapata
Member
(04-17-2013, 10:55 PM)
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Damn, Phi, you make it sound so dramatic and awesome.

Will definitely join the celebration. Congrats on your work, man! Can't wait to read more about this.
bishoptl
(04-17-2013, 10:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by phisheep

OK guys, new thread is here.

But I'd be really grateful if you don't post in it until Tuesday when I've had the chance to work out how to structure it. We're at the point again where the entire internet might think something is over but it ain't that easy. Not necessarily.

I'll lock it for now. Give me a PM when you're ready to commence dropping knowledge once more.
gabbo
Member
(04-17-2013, 11:00 PM)
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I never thought this day would actually come. I tip my hat to you phisheep, for the ridiculous amount of work you've put into this thread.
RangerBAD
Member
(04-17-2013, 11:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by winstano

Does this mean I can start work on my first game? Edge of the Edgy Edging Edged Edge?

GrotesqueBeauty
Molasses Jones X
(04-17-2013, 11:13 PM)
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I almost expect Langdell to file another motion:

You can't win board. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!

Also, something something null and void on the face of it.
jvm
Gamasutra.
(04-18-2013, 01:55 AM)
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Uh. Guys?

phisheep
Banned
(Today, 05:17 PM)

What happened while I was gone? :(
TheNatural
My Member!
(04-18-2013, 02:16 AM)
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What happened to phisheep? I hope he just requested a ban for some reason.
Confidence Man
360 release: 2005
PS3 release: 2007
I need the reminder.
(04-18-2013, 02:20 AM)
In a bitter twist of irony, Tim Langdell obtained the trademark to the word "phisheep", and threatened legal action against neogaf unless the user infringing on said trademark was banned.
TheNatural
My Member!
(04-18-2013, 02:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Confidence Man

In a bitter twist of irony, Tim Langdell obtained the trademark to the word "phisheep", and threatened legal action against neogaf unless the user infringing on said trademark was banned.

LOL. Part of me is wary that something is up here though, Langdell is one slimy mofo.
Pride
Member
(04-18-2013, 02:24 AM)
What a crazy day - BIG win in the case, BIG loss with a phisheep ban.
Is this because of his recent comments regarding the criminal proceedings?
Cosmo Clock 21
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(04-18-2013, 02:31 AM)
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phisheep was Langdell all along
Deadbeat
Member
(04-18-2013, 02:34 AM)
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Now we have no legal counsel on gaf.
Curufinwe
Member
(04-18-2013, 02:40 AM)
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Well this is an unpleasant and unexpected twist.
funkystudent
Member
(04-18-2013, 02:42 AM)
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WHAT!

I hope its a short ban.

I love lurking this thread and reading the latest developments of this dumb tale.
Skunkers
Member
(04-18-2013, 02:44 AM)
Do the mods comment on bans? Phisheep has been truly valued by many on GAF for this thread, it would suck if we never found out what happened to him.
jetjevons
Bish loves my games!
(04-18-2013, 02:45 AM)
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Are we allowed to ask why he was banned?
EviLore
Expansive Ellipses
(04-18-2013, 02:46 AM)
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Some wildly inappropriate comments were made pertaining to openly blackmailing Langdell, that have since been deleted. Try to avoid blatantly illegal activity.
Spring-Loaded
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(04-18-2013, 02:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Confidence Man

In a bitter twist of irony, Tim Langdell obtained the trademark to the word "phisheep", and threatened legal action against neogaf unless the user infringing on said trademark was banned.

LOL. I am concerned what happened, but still, damn.
Camp Lo
Member
(04-18-2013, 02:48 AM)
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That Shamayalan twist!
Pride
Member
(04-18-2013, 02:50 AM)

Originally Posted by EviLore

Some wildly inappropriate comments were made pertaining to openly blackmailing Langdell, that have since been deleted. Try to avoid blatantly illegal activity.

Was it temp or perma?
Ironically if Neo mods ran the justice system this thread wouldn't be 2+ years old :)
TheNatural
My Member!
(04-18-2013, 02:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by EviLore

Some wildly inappropriate comments were made pertaining to openly blackmailing Langdell, that have since been deleted. Try to avoid blatantly illegal activity.

I guess you're right. I kind of thought he was doing it tongue in cheek though to just get Langdell's response to the situation, I don't know. I don't know the guy in person to tell if he was really looking for a payday.
Delusibeta
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(04-18-2013, 02:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by Pride

Was it temp or perma?
Ironically if Neo mods ran the justice system this thread wouldn't be 2+ years old :)

Smells like a perma to me.
jvm
Gamasutra.
(04-18-2013, 03:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by EviLore

Some wildly inappropriate comments were made pertaining to openly blackmailing Langdell, that have since been deleted. Try to avoid blatantly illegal activity.

That sounds like a permaban. Man, what a day. What a day.
PsychoRaven
Member
(04-18-2013, 03:00 AM)
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Damnnnn. What a bit of irony. Glad to see the trademarks cancelled finally though. That SOB hurt a lot of people with his bullshit.
BronsonLee
Member
(04-18-2013, 03:02 AM)
You've got to be kidding me.

One goes, then goes the opposite
Edgeward
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(04-18-2013, 03:03 AM)
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What a fucking twist. You couldn't write this stuff up. So long, phisheep.
TheNatural
My Member!
(04-18-2013, 03:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by jvm

That sounds like a permaban. Man, what a day. What a day.

What a day. What a motha fuckin day.

jetjevons
Bish loves my games!
(04-18-2013, 03:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheNatural

I guess you're right. I kind of thought he was doing it tongue in cheek though to just get Langdell's response to the situation, I don't know. I don't know the guy in person to tell if he was really looking for a payday.

It did read (to my untrained eyes) like Phisheep was merely baiting Langdell to offer his side of the story before he reported the accumulative evidence to the proper authorities, versus some kind of actual shakedown. Regardless the language wasn't well chosen and this certainly isn't the forum for that kind of personal communication.
TheNatural
My Member!
(04-18-2013, 03:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by jetjevons

It did read (to my untrained eyes) like Phisheep was merely baiting Langdell to offer his side of the story before he reported the accumulative evidence to the proper authorities, versus some kind of actual shakedown. Regardless the language wasn't well chosen and this certainly isn't the forum for that kind of personal communication.

Agreed. I wouldn't want illegal shit on my property either. It's just disappointing he went that route because he's done so much work. I hope he doesn't get himself into trouble as well. Any legitimate thing he may have on Langdell may direct here and give him a chance to say 'oh see, he was trying to blackmail me.'

The guy may be a patent trolling piece of shit, but it's sinking to his level to do that if he really meant it. We don't know much about anyone in real life though, and what their real intentions are.
Droog
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(04-18-2013, 09:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by Edgeward

What a fucking twist. You couldn't write this stuff up. So long, phisheep.

Yeah, that was unexpected! Can we call this a pyrrhic victory? :-/
wetflame
Menorable
(04-18-2013, 09:52 AM)
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Well that's a hell of a shame, although I suppose you can't really argue what happened.
Nickiepoo
Member
(04-18-2013, 10:42 AM)
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'We' won, but there had to be one final casualty directed from on high for a prior sin or act of hubris huh.
It's like a greek tragedy up in here.
GrotesqueBeauty
Molasses Jones X
(04-18-2013, 11:07 AM)
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Noooooooooo...

I wondered about those comments, but I took it as fun and games playing on the drama of the thread. Understandably, it didn't come across well at all though. If it's a perma it's a real loss for GAF. :(

Also, as a comfort to myself I blame Langdell. Phisheep got too close to his madness over the course of these harrowing years and it took its toll. Your sacrifice shall not be forgotten phisheep!
ymmv
Member
(04-18-2013, 11:16 AM)
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Damn. This was one of the best threads on Gaf. Phisheep did such an incredible job. This shouldn't end this way. Don't permaban one of Gaf's best posters, EviLore!
EdwardTivrusky
Member
(04-18-2013, 11:35 AM)
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WOW this thread is STILL a rollercoaster!

The case wraps up and Phisheep gets banned. Ups and downs all around.

I had an inkling it was those remarks that may have landed him in trouble, sorry to see the ban though.

Best wishes, Phisheep. You will never be forgotten here. Amazing work and welcome to Kendle.
Vinnk
Member
(04-18-2013, 11:58 AM)
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Aww... I thought the blackmail stuff was a joke (though a bit if an uncomfortable one) but he was one of the best posters on Gaf for sure. Can't really blame Evilore though, it's his butt too if someone sees it not as a joke, He will be missed.

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