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Scythesurge
Member
(10-17-2010, 10:10 PM)

Originally Posted by Kagari

Replaying Final Fantasy IX and it really does have the most beautiful pre-rendered backgrounds. Square should go back to them for a future installment.

FF IX's graphics hold up amazingly well.

Pre-rendered backgrounds work well as long as the game doesn't require much interaction with the backgrounds.
Aklamarth
Member
(10-17-2010, 10:10 PM)
They never left. Most of the fixed camera 3d games have prerendered backgrounds. Castlevania for instance.
consoul
(10-17-2010, 10:10 PM)
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Pre-render moving backgrounds (ala Onimusha 2) from two viewpoints for stereoscopic 3D and composite ridiculously high quality character models on top at 1080p.

RE2make or Shin Shin Onimusha plz.
hyduK
Banned
(10-17-2010, 10:11 PM)
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Baiten Kaitos had some amazing ones. Can't find any screens that do the game justice though.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
(10-17-2010, 10:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gravijah

RE2Make


plz

You heard the man Capcom! We want amazingly pre-rendered background with focused power on the character and enemy models. Leon and Claire will run through Raccoon City once again and I will stop wanting to burn down your company.
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
(10-17-2010, 10:12 PM)

Originally Posted by 2 Minutes Turkish

I'm no game programmer, but couldn't they have a polygonal 'skeleton' with a pre-rendered overlay that gives the effect of a non-pre rendered background while still making all the same processing savings of having a pre-rendered background?

Or was that completely retarted?

I believe some pre-rendered games already do this - the problem is that the camera would still be fixed, so the only real advantage is to give the background some more depth.
Boney
Sucking and blowing™
(10-17-2010, 10:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Scythesurge

FF IX's graphics hold up amazingly well.

Pre-rendered backgrounds work well as long as the game doesn't require much interaction with the backgrounds.

too bad about them loading times.
randomwab
Member
(10-17-2010, 10:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by BrLvgThrChmstry

And I'm sorry but I may not be a fan of RE5; definitely blows REmake (or any previous RE) out of the water in terms of detail and graphically fidelity.

I love Resident Evil 5, and Lost in Nightmares did a great job of emulating the classic style.

But REmake blows it out of the water, no competition. Pre-rendered gives an amount of detail, lighting and general atmosphere that in-engine still just can't match, except maybe Metro 2033 maxed on PC.
∀ Narayan
the carnival of stupid
(10-17-2010, 10:14 PM)
∀ Narayan's Avatar

Originally Posted by Aklamarth

They never left. Most of the fixed camera 3d games have prerendered backgrounds. Castlevania for instance.

It does?
Kagari
Please understand.
(10-17-2010, 10:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Boney

too bad about them loading times.

The loading isn't as bad on the PSN version of the game.
Tobor
Look!
A crack addict with a tag!
(10-17-2010, 10:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Boney

too bad about them loading times.

I'm assuming that's not an issue for the PSN version right? I've never played it.

EDIT: and Kagari answers before I ask. :lol
H_Prestige
Banned
(10-17-2010, 10:14 PM)

Originally Posted by Boney

too bad about them loading times.

I never played FFIX, but FFVII load times are damn fast when played through a PSP. Played through the ps3 HDD is pretty decent as well. I'm really tempted to buy a GO for the FF games now with the price drop.

Of course, FFIX battles are always going to be painfully slow. That is just part of the game.
m0ngo
Member
(10-17-2010, 10:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lionheart1827



Forgot how gorgeous REmake is.
The Take Out Bandit
grrrrrrr bungle snitches!
rrrrrrrrrrrrr baba britches!
sumthin sumthin itches!
DRAGGGUUULLLAAA!!!
(10-17-2010, 10:15 PM)
The Take Out Bandit's Avatar
Pre-rendered backgrounds are as abhorrent as non-game engine cut scenes. It's an artifact of a dead era, and also conducive to terrible camera use.

See also: Devil May Cry 1

Pre-rendered backgrounds + terrible camera placement = game breaking.

In addition that that, it doesn't immerse me in the game world. I just feel like even more of a rat in a maze.
2 Minutes Turkish
Banned
(10-17-2010, 10:15 PM)

Originally Posted by I NEED SCISSORS

I believe some pre-rendered games already do this - the problem is that the camera would still be fixed, so the only real advantage is to give the background some more depth.

Ok, figured as much.

I'm surprised with HD, and the talent of some of the artists these days, that a lot more games (especially Arcade/PSN) games don't make use of this. Or do they and I just don't notice?
Boney
Sucking and blowing™
(10-17-2010, 10:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kagari

The loading isn't as bad on the PSN version of the game.

Ok that's it. PS3 is coming this holiday season.
Gravijah
Member
(10-17-2010, 10:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Boney

Ok that's it. PS3 is coming this holiday season.

just pull a few more 24 hours shifts
Sectus
Member
(10-17-2010, 10:17 PM)
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I wouldn't want them to become common, but a few games like that would be neat. REmake still looks absolutely amazing and its character models are close to the models we see in normal current gen titles. I'd love to see another game like that done now.
Redbeard
Banned
(10-17-2010, 10:18 PM)
It's unfortunate that Final Fantasy doesn't go back to this formula.

I feel like Final Fantasy's quality has been significantly compromised by the use of 3D environments, when they're simply not necessary whatsoever for the type of game Final Fantasy is.

There's three main elements that make a great FF title: art, story/characters, and battle system. That's it. There's almost zero interaction required with the environment, and you don't need to rotate the camera around.

They used to be able to churn out Final Fantasy titles relatively quickly, and I'd still much rather play the PS1 titles than FFXIII.
Granger Danger
Member
(10-17-2010, 10:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by hyduK

Baiten Kaitos had some amazing ones. Can't find any screens that do the game justice though.

Maybe in the Dolphin thread?
H_Prestige
Banned
(10-17-2010, 10:22 PM)

Originally Posted by Redbeard

It's unfortunate that Final Fantasy doesn't go back to this formula.

I feel like Final Fantasy's quality has been significantly compromised by the use of 3D environments, when they're simply not necessary whatsoever for the type of game Final Fantasy is.

There's three main elements that make a great FF title: art, story/characters, and battle system. That's it. There's almost zero interaction required with the environment, and you don't need to rotate the camera around.

They used to be able to churn out Final Fantasy titles relatively quickly, and I'd still much rather play the PS1 titles than FFXIII.

Did you play FFXII? That game is light years ahead of FFXIII.
Boney
Sucking and blowing™
(10-17-2010, 10:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gravijah

just pull a few more 24 hours shifts

It was only 16 :lol

>:(
KittenMaster
Member
(10-17-2010, 10:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Take Out Bandit

Pre-rendered backgrounds are as abhorrent as non-game engine cut scenes. It's an artifact of a dead era, and also conducive to terrible camera use.

See also: Devil May Cry 1

Pre-rendered backgrounds + terrible camera placement = game breaking.

In addition that that, it doesn't immerse me in the game world. I just feel like even more of a rat in a maze.

Like I said, it's players taking camera systems too seriously as to why pre-rendered backgrounds are dead in the first place. If they did not die, then there would be more glorious looking games like REMake, maybe not on consoles, but definitely on handhelds and the like.

DMC1 didn't use pre-rendered backgrounds, btw, and I don't know why people complain about the lack of camera system so much, I always preferred having the camera show a wide view of where I'm fighting instead of usually having to turn the camera around for a couple of seconds before being able to put my thumb on the controls again.
Redbeard
Banned
(10-17-2010, 10:26 PM)

Originally Posted by H_Prestige

Did you play FFXII? That game is light years ahead of FFXIII.

Hated FFXII as well, not quite as bad as FFXIII though.
Vanillalite
Member
(10-17-2010, 10:50 PM)
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I love this shit for 2d or 2.5d games, but I know this thread is mainly talking 3d games here.
Pai Pai Master
Member
(10-17-2010, 10:54 PM)
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FFVII Remake needs 1080p pre-rendered backgrounds or I won't give a crap.
badcrumble
Member
(10-17-2010, 10:57 PM)
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Yeah, I don't want them to be the norm by any means, but I'd love to see REMake quality pre rendered backgrounds in 1080p or on the 3DS.
Feep
Second-hand Citizen
(10-17-2010, 10:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by 2 Minutes Turkish

I'm no game programmer, but couldn't they have a polygonal 'skeleton' with a pre-rendered overlay that gives the effect of a non-pre rendered background while still making all the same processing savings of having a pre-rendered background?

Or was that completely retarted?

Since no one answered you, yes, that was very stupid.
panda21
Member
(10-17-2010, 10:59 PM)
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only if the gameplay fits with it, like RE

the cool thing would be that with a 720p prerendered backdrop you could put all of the 3d hardware power into character models
jett
Member
(10-17-2010, 11:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fistwell

Had been re-playing this recently, and held similar thoughts as the OP regarding pre-rendered backgrounds.

Really? I attemtped to re-play it recently and thought the backgrounds look kinda awful. It's just too low-res.

I personally disagree with the OP. I'll take my real-time scenery with non-fixed camera angles, thanks.
BorkBork
The Legend of BorkBork: BorkBorkity Borking
(10-17-2010, 11:07 PM)
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I just replayed finished Baten Kaitos: Origins and the blend of pre-rendered stuff and real time weather effects like clouds hold up really really well.

Poor quality, but you can still see Diadem pretty well.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Member
(10-17-2010, 11:08 PM)
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What the fuck is this shit? No, just no. Fixed camera angles need to die in a fire.
GhaleonQ
Member
(10-17-2010, 11:15 PM)
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*searches for Final Fantasy IX*

Indeed! Pre-chosen camera angles allow for a stronger director's hand, anyway.
Enduin
No bald cap? Lies!
(10-17-2010, 11:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by BorkBork

I just replayed finished Baten Kaitos: Origins and the blend of pre-rendered stuff and real time weather effects like clouds hold up really really well.

Poor quality, but you can still see Diadem pretty well.

THANK GOD, I was just about to post stuff about Baten Kaitos, it needs way more props and acknowledgement than it gets. I would kill so many people to have them make a third one. Great music, great characters, great setting and great combat.

Music sample from Origins
Eccocid
Member
(10-17-2010, 11:34 PM)
I was plying Riven few weeks ago and still cant believe how they achieved those renders at that time. Some of the places in the game looks super realistic and better than most of the prerendered games relased after Riven.
Especially those rides between islands are amazing.
WanderingWind
Banned
(10-17-2010, 11:36 PM)
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I agree, OP. It'd certainly help with with the whole "HD towns" conundrum.
Ranger X
Kohler: 1, Ranger X: 0

PS: Itoi > Kojima by a good green country mile
(10-17-2010, 11:39 PM)
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I am all for it if it compliments the game instead of restraining it. In the positive case, the pre-rendered background can help your game be a looker with minimal effort.
pje122
Member
(10-17-2010, 11:43 PM)
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Yes, please. I miss pre-rendered backgrounds so much...
BorkBork
The Legend of BorkBork: BorkBorkity Borking
(10-17-2010, 11:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Enduin

THANK GOD, I was just about to post stuff about Baten Kaitos, it needs way more props and acknowledgement than it gets. I would kill so many people to have them make a third one. Great music, great characters, great setting and great combat.

Music sample from Origins

I just posted some stuff in the best videogame franchise music thread.

After thinking about the game, I think it's a franchise that is conducive to having another PREQUEL. The whole mythology around Wiseman and the origins of Magnus would be quite interesting.
Terrascape
Member
(10-17-2010, 11:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lionheart1827





I support detailed pre-rendered backgrounds. Lets do this.

Game of the forever (Why didn't Capcom manage to make RE0 that pretty?).
Ogs
Member
(10-17-2010, 11:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by pje122

Yes, please. I miss pre-rendered backgrounds so much...

Same. The RE's were far more creepy with them, and Onimusha looked stunning (especially 2), when it went 3D it lost alot of detail. Maybe its just because i like running around carefully put together scenes or something i dunno :lol Resident Evil was far more creepy when the scene was very still, with only minor things like candles making any movement.....
luka
Loves Robotech S1
(10-17-2010, 11:48 PM)
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yes. yes! GOD YES!
RockmanWhore
Member
(10-17-2010, 11:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by REMEMBER CITADEL

What the fuck is this shit? No, just no. Fixed camera angles need to die in a fire.

I think more games should just ditch camera controls and be able to do more technically. Some games like God of War or Mario Galaxy, just work extremely well without control. And they even do some crazy shit thanks to that.


Originally Posted by 2 Minutes Turkish

Ok, figured as much.

I'm surprised with HD, and the talent of some of the artists these days, that a lot more games (especially Arcade/PSN) games don't make use of this. Or do they and I just don't notice?

I don't think it's that simple. First of all, it's expensive, I don't have any number, but I don't think the budget of RE remake and RE4 were that much different. And it takes a lot of storage space. REmake needed 2 disc, just like RE4.
Confidence Man
360 release: 2005
PS3 release: 2007
I need the reminder.
(10-17-2010, 11:54 PM)
I'd love to see Fallout 4 with highly detailed 2D scenery instead of Gamebryo again. ToEE is gorgeous.
Himuro
Banned
(10-17-2010, 11:55 PM)
Pre-rendered backgrounds would really help with the development process in certain games/genres. It takes them 99 years to make a game with full 3d with a budget of 100 billion yen when it would be more productive to make some areas such as cities and towns and places where you don't fight pre-rendered.

It would save Square so much damn money and time.
Crayon
(10-18-2010, 12:10 AM)
If someone just had the balls to do it, a game with prerendered backgrounds would do just fine. In the case of RE or FF it could even lead to a revival. I was convinced REmake was the way forward for the series at the time it came out. But things didn't go that way and now re seams to be some sort of shooter thanks to converging game mechanics.
BorkBork
The Legend of BorkBork: BorkBorkity Borking
(10-18-2010, 12:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by Himuro

Pre-rendered backgrounds would really help with the development process in certain games/genres. It takes them 99 years to make a game with full 3d with a budget of 100 billion yen when it would be more productive to make some areas such as cities and towns and places where you don't fight pre-rendered.

It would save Square so much damn money and time.

That's an interesting point. Has the shift away from prerendered scenes significantly increased development costs? Is it a waste of resources to fully render in 3D areas that has little significance in the game? Will a return to prerendered backgrounds make more financial sense nowadays?
Ogs
Member
(10-18-2010, 12:21 AM)
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jett
Member
(10-18-2010, 12:23 AM)
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CG imagery still requires considerable asset creation. Especially high quality CG. It's not like games like FF7 were cheap, for fuck's sake.
-viper-
Banned
(10-18-2010, 12:24 AM)
holy shit at the REMAKE shots. does it really look like that during game play?

looks better than 99% of the games released today.

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