[I AM JOHN!]

SMH, making a non-banjo kazooie game doesn't inspire banjo fans to buy it.

How about making a game that has a lot of the same ideas as those games despite not being a platformer, yet is way more clever and interestingly designed than both BK and BT combined?

Nuts and Bolts is the second best game of 2008 and better than your shitty misguided nostalgia. Deal with it.

[Neuromancer]

This generation is going to kill the industry.

All hyberbole aside, hasn't this generation been the most profitable for the industry at large? Not to say this isn't a bummer because I like Rare, but come on.

[Deku]

I'm really baffled by MS. One would think when they bought rare for all that money they had a clear, solid, long term plan for them and would be willing to stick it out till it bore fruit.

They wanted to acquire Nintendo, and failing that, they acquired RARE.

I think MS suffered from the same delusion many armchair analysts have, and that is, financial acquisitions = talent acquistions. Or more broadly, if a studio is producing value X when they are working in one environment, they will still produce X when they are bought and controlled/stuffed with middle management from the parent company.

And that rarely works out, EVEN if the talent stays. Just look at Activision/EA's billion dollar wasteland of closed developers and failed acquisitions.

I think someone has cynically referenced those buyouts as less about buying developers and or hiring their talents, but simply making those developers unavailable for a few years to the competition.

[apana]

Some ex-Rare designers are working at Eurocom and one is even at Armature right?

[Lijik]

but the viva pinata pinatas are used as the symbol of creativity, so it's clearly not some n64-throwback "rare sux when ms bought them" screed, it's pretty clearly implying some new management or direction. whether that's kinect or avatars or just casualization in general, i think the meaning is conveyed better without the labels.

I'd prefer it with no labels as well but I think it'd be understandable if the boot had just one (and if it was the only label in the whole cartoon).
The damning thing is it has three. Thats just blatantly telling your audience they are all dumbasses.

[madara]

When this happens and it been happening alot it has to be hardest thing for those that grew up watching this industry grow out of the hobbyist market. It feels like a funeral.

[Princess Skittles]

All hyberbole aside, hasn't this generation been the most profitable for the industry at large? Not to say this isn't a bummer because I like Rare, but come on.

Maybe, but it would all be going to a small number of mega-publishers.. and that's extremely damaging to the industry.

[Jay-B]

Viva Pinata, Viva Pinata 2, and Kinect Sports were all good actually. I'm surprised they were able to keep their level of quality up.

Compared to their xbox 1 era, sure. But Rare's games have been nowhere near their 90's games for a long time. Kinect Sports may be well made, but it's still a fucking Wii sports knockoff.
I'd be glad to see MS put a bullet in their head this year so I don't have to be reminded what a trainweck Rare's acquisition has been.

[Shiggy]

Some ex-Rare designers are working at Eurocom and one is even at Armature right?

Former Rare employees are at many studios. Some of these ex-Rare designers recently created their own studios, though we haven't seen anything of them.
Michael Cawood left Armature though.

[Cerebral Assassin]

How about making a game that has a lot of the same ideas as those games despite not being a platformer, yet is way more clever and interestingly designed than both BK and BT combined? Nuts and Bolts is the second best game of 2008 and better than your shitty misguided nostalgia. Deal with it.

You are in a tiny minority when it comes to Nuts n Bolts & it is probably the reason that MS seem not to trust Rare to do anything interesting( or at the least something that doesn't look like it has been focus-grouped to death). Deal with that.

[Plinko]

Maybe, but it would all be going to a small number of mega-publishers.. and that's extremely damaging to the industry.

True. I absolutely hate to see it happen.

[KingDizzi]

The British gaming industry is in a desperate state right now. I am glad to no longer have that worry on my shoulders, but worried about the many friends I have left in the industry.

We still have the big boys, Houser brothers represent!

This gen has really been good for consumers, the developers that were able to survive with their shitty games can no longer do so, slowly the crap is going and we're being left with a larger margin of high quality developers. Rare are a shell, it's hard to feel sorry for them with the shit they have released as of late, same for Bizarre.

[Plinko]

How about making a game that has a lot of the same ideas as those games despite not being a platformer, yet is way more clever and interestingly designed than both BK and BT combined? Nuts and Bolts is the second best game of 2008 and better than your shitty misguided nostalgia. Deal with it.

I just played through Banjo-Tooie and enjoyed it about 100 times more than N & B. No nostalgia involved.

[Rez]

Please break their hands on the way out, so they can "art" no more.

go fuck yourself, dude.

[Cerebral Assassin]

We still have the big boys, Houser brothers represent! This gen has really been good for consumers, the developers that were able to survive with their shitty games can no longer do so, slowly the crap is going and we're being left with a larger margin of high quality developers.

Seriously? This may be true if you play a lot of Shooters/Racing games/Platformers/Fighting games but most companies are too scared to release anything that comes close to being a gamble.

[dvolovets]

The amount of revisionist history in this thread makes me sick. How can you bash Rare's art team after taking one look at Donkey Kong Country, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Star Fox Adventures, etc?

[Fersis]

go fuck yourself, dude.

Welcome back Rez.

Harsh words in this thread.

[Nuclear Muffin]

Fuck this shit. This is so miserable to watch.

Rareware were once my favourite developers, it's been simply tragic to watch what has happened to them over the years and now this.

I wish I could start up my own publishing company :(

[Neuromancer]

Maybe, but it would all be going to a small number of mega-publishers.. and that's extremely damaging to the industry.

Yeah but a lot of really good developers continue to do well, often in concert with those mega-publishers. My point was the news in this topic, while bad, doesn't really equate to the sky falling.

[Suzzopher]

You win this round Avartards :(

[Massa]

The $ in M$ represents Microsoft's evil desire to make money, a trait no other company shares. It's very clever.

Well, as far as I can tell the whole "M$" was created around the time they were known for shady and downright illegal anti-competitive measures. That's actually a trait not most companies share.

[Gravijah]

Compared to their xbox 1 era, sure. But Rare's games have been nowhere near their 90's games for a long time. Kinect Sports may be well made, but it's still a fucking Wii sports knockoff. I'd be glad to see MS put a bullet in their head this year so I don't have to be reminded what a trainweck Rare's acquisition has been.

I dunno, Viva Pinata is just as good as the best Rare stuff from the SNES/N64 era.

[Princess Skittles]

My point was the news in this topic, while bad, doesn't really equate to the sky falling.

The news in this topic pops up every thirty-six hours.

You don't see that as a problem?

[Blueblur1]

:(

[Rez]

I dunno, Viva Pinata is just as good as the best Rare stuff from the SNES/N64 era.

and Nuts and Bolts is even better

[apana]

they had a good thing with Nintendo, they should have tried to work out whatever the issues were and supported their platforms. I'm 100% sure the games they put out on the xbox would have been a success on a Nintendo console.

I'm not sure what they could have worked out. Microsoft was willing to cough up an insane amount of money for Rare. Something like 300 million. Nintendo could either pay more than 300 million to keep them or gain 100 million by letting them go. Nintendo chose the 100 million.

[shidoshi]

I never like hearing about a studio going under (or being in serious trouble), unless it's a group that is unquestionably working hard to bury the world in utter crap. That said, the only thing I've cared about from Rare since the days of the NES are, in fact, the Xbox Avatars.

[Sho_Nuff82]

Kinect Sports is Rare's best-selling game in about 8 years, that quote in the OP seems a little detached from reality.

Well, as far as I can tell the whole "M$" was created around the time they were known for shady and downright illegal anti-competitive measures. That's actually a trait not most companies share.

Yeah, Nintendo's the only other company that really comes to mind.

[Mifune]

This industry makes me so sad every single day.

[Karram]

I really feel bad for Rare. I wish they could just go form their own studio and do whatever games they want to do.

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Kinect Sports may be well made, but it's still a fucking Wii sports knockoff.

And Halo is a Doom clone. Kinect Sports is also loved by many, including a lot of people on this forum, and it seems to be the most commercially successful game Rare has made this generation, possibly since they became a part of MGS. You might not like the sound of that, but that's how it is.

Hell, it's really sad to see a lot of senior Rare staff go and I'm sure it's even sadder for people who grew up with their games (thankfully, I wasn't one of them), but times and markets change, and so should Rare. Or they could go the way of Factor 5 and other 8-bit/16-bit/32-bit heroes.

[apana]

I really feel bad for Rare. I wish they could just go form their own studio and do whatever games they want to do.

Well a lot of Rare designers have left. I know some went to Eurocom, which recently made Goldeneye for Wii. I'm not sure where the rest are.

[Rez]

saying a game that was commonly sold in a bundle with a new piece of hardware that was purposefully built to be completely character-less is a 'success' is a bit of a stretch. It isn't sustainable.

[StevieP]

RIP Rare. The bigger story is not that Rare hasn't produced any real extremely-high-quality stuff in like... a decade. It's that way too many studios are tanking and being shut down in the "HD Generation".

Skyrocketing budgets will lead us to a place where a yearly Call of Duty and an 800 billion dollar budget bi-yearly GTA game will be what we look forward to playing. It wasn't like this in the SD era.

[ghst]

i'd rather sit on the dole eating beans in a bedsit than be forced to draw leering rape mascots all day, too.

[-PXG-]

I blame every single one of you who didn't buy Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts for this.

I bought it and thought it was awful. What?

[Rez]

RIP Rare. The bigger story is not that Rare hasn't produced any real extremely-high-quality stuff in like... a decade. It's that way too many studios are tanking and being shut down in the "HD Generation". Skyrocketing budgets will lead us to a place where a yearly Call of Duty and an 800 billion dollar budget bi-yearly GTA game will be what we look forward to playing. It wasn't like this in the SD era.

remember, PC gaming and the downloadable console space not only exist, but are, especially in the latter's case, almost certainly set to become even bigger and more relevant with each new console cycle. don't despair just yet.

[The Technomancer]

RIP Rare. The bigger story is not that Rare hasn't produced any real extremely-high-quality stuff in like... a decade. It's that way too many studios are tanking and being shut down in the "HD Generation". Skyrocketing budgets will lead us to a place where a yearly Call of Duty and an 800 billion dollar budget bi-yearly GTA game will be what we look forward to playing. It wasn't like this in the SD era.

Or we start looking forward to small titles from small teams on the DD services. Less budget, less graphix, just as much substance.

[Haunted]

the worst part about that cartoon is the text labels i'm sorry but if you can't figure out that the boot is kinect and the candy represents the creative values rare was known for, you're an idiot and i don't care if you understand the cartoon or not. it's the same problem with 99% of all political cartoons. you don't need to hold my hand through the joke. i get it. it's not funny anymore since you've explained every little detail to me. let me figure it out myself.

It's obviously a clever meta-commentary of the dumbing down that goes right along with Kinect and MS trying to appeal to the mass-market consumer. I know it's not, but hey, at least I gave it a shot.

[IMG]http://i54.************/2cfyv15.png[/IMG]

oh god I'm dying here

[TheSeks]

Rare was still alive?

Huh, who knew.

(Also it isn't like 4chan isn't truthful at times. See: Comic artists answering questions in /co/, musicians answering questions in /mu/. I'm not surprised a Rare insider posted on /v/. Anonymity and an audience isn't bad)

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

saying a game that was commonly sold in a bundle with a new piece of hardware that was purposefully built to be completely character-less is a 'success' is a bit of a stretch. It isn't sustainable.

What does "commonly" mean here? Do you have a breakdown of the game's sales, perhaps? Weren't Kameo and PDZ also "commonly bundled" back in 2005? And the claim that it's not sustainable is based on what data exactly? Are you sure you're not jumping the gun?

[CrunchinJelly]

The guy in the 4chan post sounds really bitter.

Sports is Rare's most successful game in... A decade?

[Jive Turkey]

the worst part about that cartoon is the text labels i'm sorry but if you can't figure out that the boot is kinect and the candy represents the creative values rare was known for, you're an idiot and i don't care if you understand the cartoon or not. it's the same problem with 99% of all political cartoons. you don't need to hold my hand through the joke. i get it. it's not funny anymore since you've explained every little detail to me. let me figure it out myself.

Yeah...Spelling it all out never works regardless of medium. The audience needs to work something out on their own.

Oh and that Ben Franklin cartoon is outstanding. I especially love the "dead" tag around the snake.

[crowphoenix]

I don't really have anything nice to say about Rare, so I'll just say that I hope all of those effected land on their feet.

[Cosmonaut X]

Wow.

The offices mustn't have been that good, then.

[Stumpokapow]

Well, as far as I can tell the whole "M$" was created around the time they were known for shady and downright illegal anti-competitive measures. That's actually a trait not most companies share.

but the point of the comic is clearly not anything to do with that, so if you say that the author is using m$ to make a commentary about anti-competitive measures, then the comic is no longer elegant and succinct, it's a multi-faceted rant.

[Zenith]

Rare has been on life-support for years. It's amazing it's survived this long.

[Sho_Nuff82]

saying a game that was commonly sold in a bundle with a new piece of hardware that was purposefully built to be completely character-less is a 'success' is a bit of a stretch. It isn't sustainable.

I'd really like to know what the hell you're talking about.

Damnit Microsoft, let them make a good Perfect Dark first please.

The people who made Perfect Dark good made Crysis 2's multiplayer. You should try it, it's good.

[Neuromancer]

The news in this topic pops up every thirty-six hours. You don't see that as a problem?

I see it as a bummer, and I feel bad for those affected, but it's not necessarily a sign that the entire industry is going into the shitter.

[Boonoo]

The amount of revisionist history in this thread makes me sick. How can you bash Rare's art team after taking one look at Donkey Kong Country, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Star Fox Adventures, etc?

It's easy because all of those games are filled with googly-eyed ugly.