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TunaLover
Member
(03-05-2011, 03:21 AM)
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San Francisco (CNN) -- Some of the video game industry's most visible veterans took to their pulpits this week at the Game Developers Conference to denounce practices by Apple or Nintendo.

Trip Hawkins took shots at both.


Speaking to a roomful of game developers here Thursday, Hawkins said Apple and followers of its mobile-platform mantra are only creating the illusion of a viable business model for third-party developers.

With more than 350,000 apps available on Apple's digital store, game creators are finding it tough to attract attention despite tens of millions of potential customers who own Apple gadgets, he said.

"They have over-encouraged supply," Hawkins said on a panel at the conference. Using statistics that Apple has made public, Hawkins calculated that each app earns, on average, about $4,000.

"Four thousand per application: Do you see a problem with that?" he asked the audience. "That doesn't even pay for a really good foosball table."

Apple said Wednesday it has doled $2 billion out to app developers, which could put the average payout closer to $5,700. Either way, Hawkins said he believes the math makes it difficult for creators of apps to turn a profit.

"If we can't figure out how to make it a healthy ecosystem, it's not going to be a great business for developers to be able to remain employed in," he said.

Gaming giant Nintendo, maker of the popular Wii system, focused much of its message at the conference on condemning the prevailing model for smartphone games.

"The objectives of smartphones and social-network platforms are not at all like ours," Nintendo President Satoru Iwata said in a GDC keynote. "Their goal is just to gather as much software as possible, because quantity is what makes the money flow. Quantity is how they profit. The value of video-game software does not matter to them."

Two of Nintendo's top executives echoed that sentiment in interviews this week.

Discussing inexpensive mobile games, Nintendo of America President Reggie Fils-Aime said: "The only thing that concerns us is that it becomes a distraction for developers, and it ends up driving development effort down a path that potentially has very little return."

In other words, Nintendo executives said, selling wares cheaply in a crowded online bazaar is a long-term recipe for failure.

"When I look at retailers, and I see the $1 and free software, I have to determine that the owner doesn't care about the high value of software at all," Iwata said in a presentation Wednesday, the same morning as Apple's iPad 2 news conference in the building next door. "I fear our business is dividing in a way that threatens the continued employment of those of us who make games."


But Hawkins, the EA founder, said he believes Nintendo is not blame-free, either. The Japanese gaming behemoth upended the industry decades ago when it instituted fees associated with developing and selling software for Nintendo's systems, he said.

After an approval process, Nintendo makes developers pay a toll for access to certified equipment for testing purposes. The company also takes a royalty fee on each unit sold -- set so high that the costs lock out small development shops, some programmers say.


The practice has thrived and has been emulated by others, including Microsoft and Sony Computer Entertainment.

"We used to have a free and open game business," Hawkins said. "And then Nintendo came along and introduced a thing called a licensing agreement."

Apple charges developers a subscription fee of $99 per year and takes 30% of each transaction. Apple has touted in previous news conferences that it sells more gadgets capable of playing games than any major game company.

In 2009, Hawkins sang Apple's praises after Digital Chocolate developed several hit games for the iPhone. He called it "a spectacularly pleasant surprise" in an interview with VentureBeat.

But Thursday, Hawkins was much more critical. Apple has pitched its App Store to game developers as a place where there's "no tyranny from publishers, no tyranny from Walmart," he said. But the store's overcrowding is another problem, because it makes it hard for most games to get noticed, he added.

"At least Nintendo had the courtesy to tell you upfront that you were going to be screwed."

Apple did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Nintendo, along with the other big game-console makers, invests in ways to encourage small, independent developers to build games for its systems. Nintendo has digital stores, called Ware, for the Wii and DSi hardware, and they have "minimal barrier to entry," Nintendo's Fils-Aime said.

But so far the company has produced no success stories that rival the likes of "Angry Birds," the blockbuster mobile game.

Fils-Aime acknowledged that there is "lots of room for optimization" with Nintendo's digital-retailing channels. "We've got to do a better job of marketing it.

To bolster those efforts, Nintendo is readying an eShop retail store for its upcoming 3DS hand-held 3-D gaming system, he said. But it won't be ready in time for the March 27 launch.

For budding game developers, there are no easy answers.

Natalia Luckyanova, a former enterprise software developer who now makes a living developing iPhone games with her husband, described Nintendo's stance as arrogant. Her Imangi Studios creates 99-cent and $2 apps. Iwata didn't sufficiently acknowledge the difficulty Nintendo creates for small developers with its licensing model, she said.

PopCap Games CEO Dave Roberts said a "slow" and cautious approach to development has worked for his 10-year-old company. PopCap is responsible for the hit cell-phone games "Bejeweled" and "Plants vs. Zombies."

"We're really excited about mobile and social (network-based) games, but we're not on the bandwagon," Roberts said. "We're not trying to drag people to new platforms."

Hawkins, the seasoned game maker, offered this solution for developers: Focus on Web-based games, where the developer can control every mode of distribution and transaction.

"There is a place that we can all gravitate to over the years," Hawkins said. "Think more about the browser. The browser will set you free."

Well, it's not that hard imagine why 3rd parties are so afraid to develop to Nintendo systems, it seems it has been a long road in which Nintendo has won bad reputation with its patners, now this sentiment has reached some indie developers too.
Oneiroscope
Member
(03-05-2011, 03:26 AM)
Wow, Trip Hawkins is still around? That's so cute.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
(03-05-2011, 03:27 AM)
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"We used to have a free and open game business," Hawkins said. "And then Nintendo came along and introduced a thing called a licensing agreement."

I'm just going to add that this made it so we didn't get a complete clusterfuck like the Atari balloon that burst.
Big One
Banned
(03-05-2011, 03:27 AM)
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This is more or less old news, but I think for console games it should be a priority. Matter of fact I kind of wish Nintendo was more strict like it was back in the day so titles like Imagine: Babies could be forced to sell at cheap $1 prices on 3DSware. At the same time I feel like they should adopt the same smartphone release model for 3DSware and let developers have free reign over what they put on it.
DDayton
(more a nerd than a geek)
(03-05-2011, 03:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by TunaLover

Well, it's not that hard imagine why 3rd parties are so afraid to develop to Nintendo systems, it seems it has been a long road in which Nintendo has won bad reputation with its patners, now this sentiment has reached some indie developers too.

... in all fairness, all that came out of that what "Nintendo bad because they introduced licensee fees." The article doesn't bother to explain what the indie game/app couple's issue is (although it's presumably the fact that Nintendo requires you to essentially be a small company, not an individual working out of his or her home.)

Nothing from that article shows why "3rd parties are so afraid to develop to Nintendo systems."
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
(03-05-2011, 03:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by DavidDayton

... in all fairness, all that came out of that what "Nintendo bad because they introduced licensee fees." The article doesn't bother to explain what the indie game/app couple's issue is (although it's presumably the fact that Nintendo requires you to essentially be a small company, not an individual working out of his or her home.)

Nothing from that article shows why "3rd parties are so afraid to develop to Nintendo systems."

"After an approval process, Nintendo makes developers pay a toll for access to certified equipment for testing purposes. The company also takes a royalty fee on each unit sold -- set so high that the costs lock out small development shops, some programmers say."
Cipherr
Member
(03-05-2011, 03:33 AM)
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On the topic of console makers adopting the more free and open minimum barrier of entry DL services for smaller devs (that led to success) why in the shit wasnt PSN and XBL not mentioned? It seems a little selective to write about how small indie devs cant have success on consoles, and then ignore the two largest DL services on consoles with the most success. Nintendo is CLEARLY in last place console wise on that front. They chose the worst bird to put on blast and ignored the other two.

Originally Posted by Trojita

"After an approval process, Nintendo makes developers pay a toll for access to certified equipment for testing purposes. The company also takes a royalty fee on each unit sold -- set so high that the costs lock out small development shops, some programmers say."


Can someone clarify the bolded? They had better not be talking about dev kits.
Ranger X
Kohler: 1, Ranger X: 0

PS: Itoi > Kojima by a good green country mile
(03-05-2011, 03:34 AM)
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Man, it's since 1985 that Nintendo influenced the industry into certification process and rules of devellopment and it's now he's complaining?
"Let's have no quality standards and let us do what we want" is always the word of devs and publishers. Yet, many fail to do a product that is any good and they barely succeed into getting approved. Just imagine if there was no standard? It would be a fucking wasteland.

Also, why not complain about Sony and Microsoft or anybody else that did follow Nintendo into liscensing process since 1985??

LOL
WillyFive
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(03-05-2011, 03:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Trojita

I'm just going to add that this made it so we didn't get a complete clusterfuck like the Atari balloon that burst.

Yeah, it's a double edged sword. Without what Nintendo introduced, the market might have been a lot less stable (shovelware today is nothing compared to what people would try to sell you back then).

But those licensing steps are making it very hard to sell games in the market as well. I bet it's why cheaper digital distribution is popular and why third parties are not as supportive of publishing games on Nintendo platforms compared to other systems.

Too many rules, takes the fun out of it. And as Trip Hawkins said, it may not even allow small-scale devs to jump in.

Originally Posted by Ranger X

Man, it's since 1985 that Nintendo influenced the industry into certification process and rules of devellopment and it's now he's complaining?
"Let's have no quality standards and let us do what we want" is always the word of devs and publishers. Yet, many fail to do a product that is any good and they barely succeed into getting approved. Just imagine if there was no standard? It would be a fucking wasteland.

Also, why not complain about Sony and Microsoft or anybody else that did follow Nintendo into liscensing process since 1985??

LOL

Nintendo started it. If you think motion control is an inherently bad thing for some reason, you would also blame Nintendo.
MisterHero
Super Member
(03-05-2011, 03:39 AM)
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he made 3DO right?
Barkley's Justice
Member
(03-05-2011, 03:43 AM)
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i really, really respect trip hawkins. but my man is sounding salty. he's been in the mobile game longer than most. he's a true visionary, he foresaw all of this and got in early with digital chocolate. but now that it's getting crowded and mobile games development has been democratized, he's just coming up sounding bitter.

i'm not saying apple's method is flawless. but shit, remember when you had to make 72 versions of your mobile app for each respective handset on the market, trip?

an analogy to trip's stance would be like older musicians bitching about how all these new musicians are giving away albums for free on their blogs or websites. or bitching about how radiohead let's you pay for what you think it's worth, etc.

sorry, but in our new digital frontier, you're just gonna have to find new ways to make money within the same industry.

and nintendo just doesnt get it, sorry. ultimately they dont need to cause they always sell the most units on their platform anyway. so fuck em.
antonz
Member
(03-05-2011, 03:43 AM)
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An odd situational overall.

Quality control is a must have to keep the industry healthy as we saw what happened when quality control didnt. In fact I expect that kind of situation to happen in the app world eventually.

As for development on nintendo consoles yes its a little tougher for the small guys because Nintendo development requires dev kits instead of just a software kit but I dont think that gives small guys a right to bitch. They can get access to the platform if they are willing to invest
DDayton
(more a nerd than a geek)
(03-05-2011, 03:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by Trojita

"After an approval process, Nintendo makes developers pay a toll for access to certified equipment for testing purposes. The company also takes a royalty fee on each unit sold -- set so high that the costs lock out small development shops, some programmers say."

Originally Posted by Cipherr

Can someone clarify the bolded? They had better not be talking about dev kits.

Of course he's talking about development kits. He's complaining that Nintendo (and MS and Sony and EVERYONE POST-NES) charges you to develop games for their system, and all the game companies also charge you for proprietary dev kits.

Except Apple, of course - they only require you to use Apple hardware and pay for the dev kit. Cough. They may charge less, but they do the same thing.
Netrunner2k2
Member
(03-05-2011, 03:48 AM)

Originally Posted by Oneiroscope

Wow, Trip Hawkins is still around? That's so cute.


Exactly my thought. Didn't know people actually was still talking to that goon.
DDayton
(more a nerd than a geek)
(03-05-2011, 03:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by Netrunner2k2

Exactly my thought. Didn't know people actually was still talking to that goon.

Now now... Trip had the world record on Joust at one point, didn't he?
jman2050
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(03-05-2011, 03:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Oneiroscope

Wow, Trip Hawkins is still around? That's so cute.

Almost word for word what I was going to post.
Fuzzy
I would bang a hot farmer!
(03-05-2011, 03:53 AM)

Originally Posted by Trojita

I'm just going to add that this made it so we didn't get a complete clusterfuck like the Atari balloon that burst.

Do you see the amount of shit that is released on the Wii? The market is being flooded with garbage that is hitting the bargain bin so fast that it's hurting the industry like it did (but to a lesser extent) in the early '80's. Why buy one $50 Wii game when you can buy 5 for the same price!
Pyrokai
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(03-05-2011, 03:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by Trojita

"After an approval process, Nintendo makes developers pay a toll for access to certified equipment for testing purposes. The company also takes a royalty fee on each unit sold -- set so high that the costs lock out small development shops, some programmers say."


Nintendo may have introduced the licensing model it in fear of another industry collapse similar to that which befell Atari, but Microsoft and Sony are just as guilty of the model, as is Sega. It's been the standard business model for console makers since the NES came out. All console makers are guilty of the licensing model. There's a reason though; it's worked for a couple decades.
Pyrokai
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(03-05-2011, 03:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Do you see the amount of shit that is released on the Wii? The market is being flooded with garbage that is hitting the bargain bin so fast that it's hurting the industry like it did (but to a lesser extent) in the early '80's. Why buy one $50 Wii game when you can buy 5 for the same price!

Do you see the equal amount of shit on the PS2? It's a plague of the generation leader.
rosjos44
Member
(03-05-2011, 03:58 AM)

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Do you see the amount of shit that is released on the Wii? The market is being flooded with garbage that is hitting the bargain bin so fast that it's hurting the industry like it did (but to a lesser extent) in the early '80's. Why buy one $50 Wii game when you can buy 5 for the same price!

If you think the Wii shoverware is bad (the Ps2 stuff was worse than the Wii btw) compared to the App store or Atari days then you must be thinking differently. Yes all consoles have shovelware, etc but the App store is much closer to Atari than any home console since NES.
Relix
he's Virgin Tight™
(03-05-2011, 03:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by Pyrokai

Do you see the equal amount of shit on the PS2? It's a plague of the generation leader.

Yeah but at least the PS2 had consistently good software....
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
(03-05-2011, 04:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by Oneiroscope

Wow, Trip Hawkins is still around? That's so cute.

Aww, are you mad because he took a shot at your favorite company? That's so cute.

Originally Posted by Trojita

I'm just going to add that this made it so we didn't get a complete clusterfuck like the Atari balloon that burst.

Last time I checked my PC have more quality than my console games.
Pyrokai
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(03-05-2011, 04:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by Relix

Yeah but at least the PS2 had consistently good software....

Yeah, but that's a different story. 3rd parties abandoned the market leader this generation. Nintendo's stuff is at least of good, consistent quality.
Fuzzy
I would bang a hot farmer!
(03-05-2011, 04:06 AM)

Originally Posted by rosjos44

If you think the Wii shoverware is bad (the Ps2 stuff was worse than the Wii btw) compared to the App store or Atari days then you must be thinking differently. Yes all consoles have shovelware, etc but the App store is much closer to Atari than any home console since NES.

I completely agree about the App store also, I was just pointing out that licensing software doesn't stop the shit from rolling out and it really needs to be stopped. I actually get upset with my cousin when she buys her son shitty games because I watch him get bored of them in less than an hour but he'll play the good games I let him borrow for weeks. I've told her to stop wasting her money and just ask me what she should get him since she has no idea what she's doing.
IsntChrisL
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(03-05-2011, 04:08 AM)
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While I'm no fan of $40 handheld games, you at least know that your game will stand out more than if it's thrown into a digital store with hundreds of thousands of competitors.

I like the idea of cheaper games that can be downloaded directly to your system, but I also look at these things and judge their value. I don't want to pay $1 for a game that might as well be free. Likewise, I don't want to pay $40 for a game that should probably cost $20. Going to retail adds to the cost, so we need to account for that. I really think the industry should stop using standard prices so much though and price games on an individual basis.

Originally Posted by godhandiscen

Last time I checked my PC have more quality than my console games.

There's a lot more crap on the PC too.
Red Nightmare
Banned
(03-05-2011, 04:15 AM)
Trip Hawkins??? Dude made 3DO. He needs to shut it!
skyfinch
This one lady was like "Something smells like ass".

It was me.
(03-05-2011, 04:16 AM)
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Trip doing this thang! The man is a legend.....or something.
DDayton
(more a nerd than a geek)
(03-05-2011, 04:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by Red Nightmare

Trip Hawkins??? Dude made 3DO. He needs to shut it!

He also ran Apple's marketing division in the early 80s, before starting Electronic Arts.

Did Trip ever actually do anything as far as games themselves, or was he just a corporate head? I assume the latter, but I wasn't sure...
heliosRAzi
Banned
(03-05-2011, 04:19 AM)

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Do you see the amount of shit that is released on the Wii? The market is being flooded with garbage that is hitting the bargain bin so fast that it's hurting the industry like it did (but to a lesser extent) in the early '80's. Why buy one $50 Wii game when you can buy 5 for the same price!

They only care if it works on the system, not if it is a bad game or not
tylovetx
Banned
(03-05-2011, 04:23 AM)

Originally Posted by godhandiscen

Aww, are you mad because he took a shot at your favorite company? That's so cute.


Last time I checked my PC have more quality than my console games.

Too bad no one can play them.
Barbacoatl
Banned
(03-05-2011, 04:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by DavidDayton

He also ran Apple's marketing division in the early 80s, before starting Electronic Arts.

Did Trip ever actually do anything as far as games themselves, or was he just a corporate head? I assume the latter, but I wasn't sure...

He programmed the precursor to Madden in 1970 and designed Doctor J and Larry Bird Go One on One, released in '83. So he's (wasn't?) not just a suit. It's also worth noting that Trip designed his own major at Harvard in Strategy and Applied Game Theory.
Lonely1
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(03-05-2011, 04:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by Trip Warhawkins

He programmed the precursor to Madden in 1970 and designed Doctor J and Larry Bird Go One on One, released in '83. So he's (wasn't?) not just a suit. It's also worth noting that Trip designed his own major at Harvard in Strategy and Applied Game Theory.

Game Theory as maths applied to social sciences?
Fuzzy
I would bang a hot farmer!
(03-05-2011, 04:36 AM)

Originally Posted by heliosRAzi

They only care if it works on the system, not if it is a bad game or not

Which is what Nintendo is complaining about with Apple. Apple doesn't care if the games are good. If Nintendo was serious about keeping the "high-value content" feasible then they shouldn't be letting most of the shit be released on the Wii that is now.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
(03-05-2011, 04:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by Red Nightmare

Trip Hawkins??? Dude made 3DO. He needs to shut it!

He also help create Electronic Arts... what have you done for the industry Red Nightmare?
Stephen Colbert
Banned
(03-05-2011, 04:37 AM)
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You don't want any limits, then make games for the PC Mr. Hawkins.
DiscoJer
Junior Member
(03-05-2011, 04:52 AM)
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I think you could make a good case that Nintendo is the only reason there even is a console industry these days. They pushed hard to get retailers to even carry their products.

So while you might think their fears of another one are overblown or unjustified, you should at least understand why they are concerned.

(And er, that's exactly where Hawkins comes from, computer games. He founded EA? Which was originally a computer game company...)
Cipherr
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(03-05-2011, 04:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I completely agree about the App store also, I was just pointing out that licensing software doesn't stop the shit from rolling out and it really needs to be stopped.


Well then you should stroll down memory lane, because the licensing DEFINITELY keeps a great deal of the shit that could exist out. The shovelware now isn't even comparable. Theres some bad games no doubt, but compared to some of the legendary shit leading up to the crash? Even for those days the shit was horrifying.

Licensing serves its purpose, just not perfectly.
Barbacoatl
Banned
(03-05-2011, 04:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by Lonely1

Game Theory as maths applied to social sciences?

Yeah, pretty much, but I ignore about the strategic part of it. There's some Harvard game-theory literature but it doesn't seem to mention Hawkins' contribution.
DDayton
(more a nerd than a geek)
(03-05-2011, 05:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by Trip Warhawkins

He programmed the precursor to Madden in 1970 and designed Doctor J and Larry Bird Go One on One, released in '83. So he's (wasn't?) not just a suit. It's also worth noting that Trip designed his own major at Harvard in Strategy and Applied Game Theory.

Bother. A cursory internet search didn't reveal that... sigh. That is a point in his favor, then... although really more for DJ and Larry Bird than the "precursor to Madden in 1970" -- although I need to track that down now and see what it was.
KtSlime
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(03-05-2011, 05:11 AM)
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The problem is Nintendo, et al. in the video game industry created a boys club, and they don't allow for outside voices. There are shitty games on all platforms, some of those shitty games even get past Nintendo's guard dog seal of quality/official seal. While there are spectacularly awesome games coming from developers that Nintendo completely snubbed.

We are in the modern era, review websites, game forums, download reviews, etc. We no longer need an artificial barrier that keeps out developers with genuinely good ideas, just because others might produce crap - Let the free market decide.
Htown
STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
(03-05-2011, 05:15 AM)
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If Trip Hawkins wants an open platform, he needs to realize that the PC still exists.

p.s. Why did the 3DO have licensing fees then? they were lower than Nintendo's, of course, but how did that work out for the 3DO's software library?
DDayton
(more a nerd than a geek)
(03-05-2011, 05:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by ivedoneyourmom

While there are spectacularly awesome games coming from developers that Nintendo completely snubbed.

Actually, now you have me curious. What do you -mean- by "snubbed"? I wasn't aware that NOA/NCL had been "snubbing" anyone, specifically. I'm surely wrong about this, of course . . . or are you referring to the "must have an office and employees" bit?
Game Guru
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(03-05-2011, 05:19 AM)
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Nintendo did not upend the North American Console Game industry with the NES... They revived it when the "free and open game business" failed.

Now this doesn't mean that Iwata is right, but it does mean that Nintendo is thinking about the competition.
KtSlime
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(03-05-2011, 05:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by DavidDayton

Actually, now you have me curious. What do you -mean- by "snubbed"? I wasn't aware that NOA/NCL had been "snubbing" anyone, specifically. I'm surely wrong about this, of course . . . or are you referring to the "must have an office and employees" bit?

I mean developers that had no inside connections. People like you or me, fans of video games that may have a good idea but weren't ever able to get into making them because the lack of capital, or the pre-established publishers model.

Digital download services such as Steam or the AppStore have allowed people to further pursue their ideas.

In most cases Nintendo probably wasn't aware they were snubbing anyone because the people didn't even have a channel to Nintendo for the dialogue.
cooljeanius
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(03-05-2011, 05:28 AM)
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Yay, something to unite Apple fans and Nintendo fans for once! (I hope)
DDayton
(more a nerd than a geek)
(03-05-2011, 05:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by ivedoneyourmom

I mean developers that had no inside connections. People like you or me, fans of video games that may have a good idea but weren't ever able to get into making them because the lack of capital, or the pre-established publishers model.

Digital download services such as Steam or the AppStore have allowed people to further pre sue their ideas.

In most cases Nintendo probably wasn't aware they were snubbing anyone because the people didn't even have a channel to Nintendo for the dialogue.

Okay, so you mean "Nintendo's systems were inaccessible to bedroom developers" as opposed to "Nintendo actively snubbed developers."

I agree with you that Nintendo's requirements for developers are far more stringent than those of Apple.

(As a side note, am I right in thinking that one way of looking at the iOS stuff is that you can essentially use it as a "homebrew unit" for just the $99 annual fee?)
antonz
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(03-05-2011, 05:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by DavidDayton

Okay, so you mean "Nintendo's systems were inaccessible to bedroom developers" as opposed to "Nintendo actively snubbed developers."

I agree with you that Nintendo's requirements for developers are far more stringent than those of Apple.

(As a side note, am I right in thinking that one way of looking at the iOS stuff is that you can essentially use it as a "homebrew unit" for just the $99 annual fee?)

Yeah to become an apple approved developer for apps basically just requires you paying 99 a year and agreeing to give apple 30% I think it is of any sales.

I cant blame Nintendo for not being so loose with their devkits and such but Im sure they could do better fostering indie relations. Indies need to understand though just because they remake some 10 year old flash game that does not give them some given right to access to Nintendo which seems to be a common complaint
DDayton
(more a nerd than a geek)
(03-05-2011, 05:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by antonz

Yeah to become an apple approved developer for apps basically just requires you paying 99 a year and agreeing to give apple 30% I think it is of any sales.

Oh, I knew that -- that wasn't my point. What I meant was that, if I understand this correctly, doesn't that mean that if someone wanted an "open" iOS device for their own hacking, it's essentially available that way? I mean, if you pay $99 a year, can't you program and run your own software as much as you want?

I cant blame Nintendo for not being so loose with their devkits and such but Im sure they could do better fostering indie relations. Indies need to understand though just because they remake some 10 year old flash game that does not give them some given right to access to Nintendo which seems to be a common complaint

"Indies" conflate the video game market with the computer market. The iOS devices are a weird midway device between the two markets. On the one hand, they are shut down tightly (which gets them hatred from the computer folks), but they are far more open than game systems.
KtSlime
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(03-05-2011, 05:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by DavidDayton

Okay, so you mean "Nintendo's systems were inaccessible to bedroom developers" as opposed to "Nintendo actively snubbed developers."

I agree with you that Nintendo's requirements for developers are far more stringent than those of Apple.

(As a side note, am I right in thinking that one way of looking at the iOS stuff is that you can essentially use it as a "homebrew unit" for just the $99 annual fee?)

Sure, if you want to call Armor Games, or Rovio "bedroom developers" then sure. The great thing about the future is that if things play out right then anyone with a great idea will be able to implement it and hopefully gain success for it.

Yeah, the buy in to produce a game for iOS/Mac OS X to use as a "homebrew unit" is $99 for everyone, whether it is you, me, EA, or Square-Enix. I'm glad Square-Enix is a "bedroom developer" using a "homebrew unit" to bring over some classics and create some unique titles that might never gotten the green light cause they couldn't make it into a $60 blockbuster.
Salazar
Member
(03-05-2011, 05:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by ivedoneyourmom

I mean developers that had no inside connections. People like you or me, fans of video games that may have a good idea but weren't ever able to get into making them because the lack of capital, or the pre-established publishers model.

That sounds like your regular barrier to entry, not a case of "snubbing" at all.

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