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theignoramus · Mar 11, 2011

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1921/poll-islam-violence-more-likely-other-religions-peter-king-congressional-hearings

Pew said:
The public remains divided over whether Islam is more likely than other religions to encourage violence among its believers. Currently, 40% say the Islamic religion is more likely than others to encourage violence while 42% say it is not.The national survey by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, conducted Feb. 22-March 1 among 1,504 adults, finds that most young people reject the idea that Islam is more likely than other religions to promote violence. Nearly six-in-ten (58%) of those younger than age 30 say Islam does not encourage violence more than other religions; 31% say it does.
By contrast, a plurality of those ages 50 and older (45%) say Islam is more likely to encourage violence.Political and ideological divisions are even wider: By roughly three-to-one (66% to 21%), conservative Republicans say Islam encourages violence more than other religions. Moderate and liberal Republicans are divided -- 46% say Islam is more likely to encourage violence, 47% say it is not.

By more than two-to-one (61% to 29%), liberal Democrats say that Islam is not more likely than other religions to promote violence. Conservative and moderate Democrats, by a smaller margin (48% to 31%), agree.

Fully 67% of those who agree with the Tea Party movement say Islam is more associated with violence than other religions. Among those who disagree with the Tea Party, the balance of opinion is nearly reversed -- 62% say Islam is no more likely than other religions to promote violence while 24% say it is. Among the large share of the public that offers no opinion of the Tea Party, 38% say Islam is more likely to promote violence while about the same number (41%) disagrees.
A clear majority of white evangelical Protestants (60%) say that Islam is more likely to encourage violence than are other religions. Far fewer white mainline Protestants (42%) and white Catholics (39%) express this view. And by nearly two-to-one (56% to 30%), the religiously unaffiliated say that the Islamic religion does not encourage violence more than others.

It's interesting that Catholics have more benign views on this than Evangelicals. The numbers for the Tea Party are totally unsurprising.

Gareth Bale · Mar 11, 2011

Old people are more likely to be bigots, and black people are more likely to understand Islam... sounds about right.

Manos: The Hans of Fate · Mar 11, 2011

Did they survey non-Christians at all? Interesting how low the Catholic numbers are.

speculawyer · Mar 11, 2011

Conservatives are paranoid and afraid. News at 11.

saelz8 · Mar 11, 2011

Lol@Conservative Republicans/Evangelicals

They are so scared of ISSLAMMMMMMMMM! GROWL!

antonz · Mar 11, 2011

Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Did they survey non-Christians at all? Interesting how low the Catholic numbers are.

Catholics dont have the extreme crazies as the evangelicals do.

From The Dust · Mar 11, 2011

silly white, older, conservatives

markatisu · Mar 11, 2011

Who would have thunk it lol

In other news the sun rose today

Jeels · Mar 11, 2011

It was almost obvious what these results were going to be, kind of sad.

Manos: The Hans of Fate · Mar 11, 2011

antonz said:
Catholics dont have the extreme crazies as the evangelicals do.

I know I married one.

SoulPlaya · Mar 11, 2011

Bungieware said:
Old people are more likely to be bigots, and black people are more likely to understand Islam... sounds about right.

Not to be racist, but I would REALLY disagree with this. Every black "Muslim" I've ever met in America has been as far away from Islam as possible. The Nation of Islam and Nation of Gods and Earths are in no way Muslim.

SolKane · Mar 11, 2011

Black people know what's up, the same paranoia and fears were projected onto them (and still are) for a century. Not surprised really by the Catholics, they've witnessed their fair amount of prejudice in the history of the US.

Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Did they survey non-Christians at all? Interesting how low the Catholic numbers are.

See: "unaffiliated"

Souldriver · Mar 11, 2011

lol republicans
lol evangelicals
lol tea party

Is anybody honestly surprised though...

SolKane · Mar 11, 2011

SoulPlaya said:
Not to be racist, but I would REALLY disagree with this. Every black "Muslim" I've ever met in America has been as far away from Islam as possible. The Nation of Islam and Nation of Gods and Earths are in no way Muslim.

I think he meant that black people were more sympathetic to the way Muslims are being treated as alien and fearful elements in our society.

SoulPlaya · Mar 11, 2011

SolKane said:
I think he meant that black people were more sympathetic to the way Muslims are being treated as alien and fearful elements in our society.

No offense, but that's what you meant. He said "understand Islam", which is really strange to me considering how many non-Muslim black groups call themselves Muslim anyway.

Either way, it's no big deal. Just something I've noticed in my lifetime.

lexi · Mar 11, 2011

But I thought the Tea Party wasn't racist and that saying so was cause for massive controversy?

Windu · Mar 11, 2011

Jeels said:
It was almost obvious what these results were going to be, kind of sad.

well its obvious what any post on gaf about conservatives is going to be.

Salvor.Hardin · Mar 11, 2011

Pew Pew Pew take that you damn turrurists!

I would like to ask someone learned on the subject, does Islam teach violence more so than other religions? I've come across a few articles on the internet and read the odd Dawkins or Hitchens perspective on Islam and it seems to me that the scripture does in fact encourage muslims to bear arms in order to expand the base and fight against people that harmlessly ridicule the teachings.

Now I confess that I have a limited understanding of Islam which is why I am hoping for someone to explain this to me (Ottomanscribe, you're pretty great at this. Help?). Even if there are more violent religions, does Islam prescribe hatred?

MadraptorMan · Mar 11, 2011

What would conservatives do if they didn't always have something to be scared of?

bill gonorrhea · Mar 11, 2011

Youre kind of misleading the thread. It says more likely than other religions. Not just that they think Islam is a violent religion. All religions have violent extremists.

Souldriver · Mar 11, 2011

Windu said:
well its obvious what any post on gaf about conservatives is going to be.

So you're saying gaf doctored the results of this poll to make them fit stereotypes?

Kusagari · Mar 11, 2011

Windu said:
well its obvious what any post on gaf about conservatives is going to be.

If you can find some poll results that show conservatives/the tea party in a good light then post them.

lo escondido · Mar 11, 2011

bill gonorrhea said:
Youre kind of misleading the thread. It says more likely than other religions. Not just that they think Islam is a violent religion. All religions have violent extremists.

Thats the point. He's not misleading anything A lot of people see islam as MORE violent than others, not that there is a lot more violent extremists in islam. Some people see Islam as inherently more violent than christianity, judaism and buddism.

SolKane · Mar 11, 2011

Interesting how it shot up from 25 to 44 % from March 2002 to July 2003. Was this an inevitable result of pandering to the US public before invasion of Iraq? Something else?

Meus Renaissance · Mar 11, 2011

Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Did they survey non-Christians at all? Interesting how low the Catholic numbers are.

They're familiar with Catholic history?

The surprising statistic there is how this opinion has gone up over the years, especially post 2002. I'd imagine a significant chunk of that is based on the rhetoric you read on certain blogs and media sources.

mclaren777 · Mar 11, 2011

Is the claim that Islam isn't more likely to encourage violence compared to other common religions (Christianity, Buddhism, etc) even defensible?

If so, I'd like to hear the argument.

theignoramus · Mar 11, 2011

SolKane said:
Interesting how it shot up from 25 to 44 % from March 2002 to July 2003. Was this an inevitable result of pandering to the US public before invasion of Iraq? Something else?

The Second Intifada. There was a sharp increase in Hamas suicide bombings in that time frame and the US media covers that region obsessively.

empty vessel · Mar 11, 2011

mclaren777 said:
Is the claim that Islam isn't more likely to encourage violence compared to other common religions (Christianity, Buddhism, etc) even defensible?

If so, I'd like to hear the argument.

Argument? Isn't data sufficient? People who identify as Christians, e.g., Americans and citizens of other Western nations, have killed more people than any other religion over the last decade. And probably every decade for the last 2000 years, although that I can't prove.

theignoramus said:
The Second Intifada. There was a sharp increase in Hamas suicide bombings in that time frame and the US media covers that region obsessively.

I don't think that's what it is. I think it's a product of the manufactured hysteria leading up to the Iraq war.

Salvor.Hardin · Mar 11, 2011

empty vessel said:
Argument? Isn't data sufficient? People who identify as Christians, e.g., Americans and citizens of other Western nations, have killed more people than any other religion over the last decade. And probably every decade for the last 2000 years, although that I can't prove.

But is Islam a peaceful religion or do the scriptures encourage violence against homosexuals or people that malign or make fun of Prophet Muhammad or Allah? It's one thing if the majority of Muslims don't follow the teachings and another if the teachings incite violence.

I'm not writing this to provoke anyone. I'm genuinely curious.

lo escondido · Mar 11, 2011

empty vessel said:
Argument? Isn't data sufficient? People who identify as Christians, e.g., Americans and citizens of other Western nations, have killed more people than any other religion over the last decade. And probably every decade for the last 2000 years, although that I can't prove.

I don't think that's what it is. I think it's a product of the manufactured hysteria leading up to the Iraq war.

Your Christian thing is most definitely bull. Africa has killed millions, Asia has seen slaughters as well and the middle east. Mongol invations, civil wars, mao's stuff. I know you want to pin every evil on the European imperialists but thats just not true.

I'm not willing to say that any group of people has killed more than others. Because everybody's done horrible stuff. Everyone.

Manos: The Hans of Fate · Mar 11, 2011

Meus Renaissance said:
They're familiar with Catholic history?

They're two separate statements.

Manos: The Hans of Fate · Mar 11, 2011

empty vessel said:
Argument? Isn't data sufficient? People who identify as Christians, e.g., Americans and citizens of other Western nations, have killed more people than any other religion over the last decade.

RustyNails · Mar 11, 2011

Salvor.Hardin said:
But is Islam a peaceful religion or do the scriptures encourage violence against homosexuals or people that malign or make fun of Prophet Muhammad or Allah? It's one thing if the majority of Muslims don't follow the teachings and another if the teachers incite violence.

I'm not writing this to provoke anyone. I'm genuinely curious.

The teachings don't say to go and kill people who make fun of prophet Muhammad or Allah. It doesn't even say to kill unbelievers or whatever. The quotes are all out of context. Quran has pretty much the same story about Sodom and Gomorrah when it comes to homosexuality.

empty vessel · Mar 11, 2011

Manos: The Hans of Fate said:

Don't be dense. Feel free to make a counter-assertion and we can go from there. Until you are prepared to do so--i.e., until you can conceive of even a potentially plausible alternative assertion--I think we can safely dismiss you as posturing.

Chichikov · Mar 11, 2011

Bungieware said:
black people are more likely to understand Islam... sounds about right.

I think it's more the case of them being more likely to understand bigotry.

lo escondido · Mar 11, 2011

Salvor.Hardin said:
But is Islam a peaceful religion or do the scriptures encourage violence against homosexuals or people that malign or make fun of Prophet Muhammad or Allah? It's one thing if the majority of Muslims don't follow the teachings and another if the teachings incite violence.

I'm not writing this to provoke anyone. I'm genuinely curious.

It's no worse than the old testament. Of course it's got teachings about killing apostates, holy war (not all jihad is this though) and other horrible things. But there are also verse about "no compulsion in religion" and peace and allowing some forms of freedom of religion.

But the old testament still has horrible things written in it aswell. People letting people rape their daughters, god's wholesale destruction of humanity, the death penalty for the silliest things. But it too has things about peace and "swords will become plows" and all people will live in peace.

No western religion doesn't encourage violence to some extent (I know nothing about eastern ones so I won't comment) but the overarching messages are always one of peace.

I think the whole Islamic boogyman comes from that it's foriegn to europeans and that there have been major wars between muslims and christians which used to be justified in a religious context (ottomans invasions, reconquista, crusades and to some extent western imperialism though it had less religion and more to do with money)

Dead Man · Mar 11, 2011

mclaren777 said:
Is the claim that Islam isn't more likely to encourage violence compared to other common religions (Christianity, Buddhism, etc) even defensible?

If so, I'd like to hear the argument.

It's pretty simple. How many people of X religion are violent per total population of religion. I think you will find Christianity is pretty high up there. Between man people in Europe, North America, South America, and Africa considering themselves Christian, and the great track record of violence in those areas over the last decade, I don't think it is an indefensible claim at all. It may or may not be true, but to act like it is indefensible is myopic at best, and bigoted at worst.

empty vessel said:
Argument? Isn't data sufficient? People who identify as Christians, e.g., Americans and citizens of other Western nations, have killed more people than any other religion over the last decade. And probably every decade for the last 2000 years, although that I can't prove.

Do you actually have access to the data on that? I suspect it, but I have no data.

Manos: The Hans of Fate · Mar 11, 2011

empty vessel said:
Don't be dense. Feel free to make a counter-assertion and we can go from there. Until you are prepared to do so--i.e., until you can conceive of even a potentially plausible alternative assertion--I think we can safely dismiss you as posturing.

So you have no evidence to support your view then?

empty vessel · Mar 11, 2011

Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
So you have no evidence to support your view then?

So can't even conceive of a plausible counter-assertion?

TheHeretic · Mar 11, 2011

empty vessel said:
Americans and citizens of other Western nations, have killed more people than any other religion over the last decade. And probably every decade for the last 2000 years, although that I can't prove.

You can't prove it because its a dumb statement. The Mongol and Persian empires alone make this obviously untrue.

Manos: The Hans of Fate · Mar 11, 2011

empty vessel said:
So can't even conceive of a plausible counter-assertion?

You made the statement. The onus is on you to provide the data to back it up...which it seems you can't.

empty vessel · Mar 11, 2011

Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
You made the statement. The onus is on you to provide the data to back it up.

I don't see how it's worth my time if you can't even come up with a plausible counter-assertion. I mean, it's not like there's tons of religions to choose from here. Are you done playing stupid games?

Trent Strong · Mar 11, 2011

lexi said:
But I thought the Tea Party wasn't racist and that saying so was cause for massive controversy?

Islam is not a race.

Drkirby · Mar 11, 2011

Trent Strong said:
Islam is not a race.

Which is why NPR corrected the issue, they are simply Xenophobic.

Manos: The Hans of Fate · Mar 11, 2011

empty vessel said:
I don't see how it's worth my time if you can't even come up with a plausible counter-assertion. I mean, it's not like there's tons of religions to choose from here. Are you done playing stupid games?

Listen, you made a statement:

empty vessel said:
Argument? Isn't data sufficient? People who identify as Christians, e.g., Americans and citizens of other Western nations, have killed more people than any other religion over the last decade."

I ask you for proof to demonstrate your point. Either supply some proof or admit you have no factual basis for your opinion.

empty vessel · Mar 11, 2011

Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Listen, you made a statement:

I ask you for proof to demonstrate your point. Either supply some proof or admit you have no factual basis for your opinion.

So you don't have any good faith reason to doubt the assertion? You're just playing games? Yes or no?

Manos: The Hans of Fate · Mar 11, 2011

empty vessel said:
So you don't have any good faith reason to doubt the assertion? You're just playing games? Yes or no?

It's a pretty bold assertion. I would like to see proof of it.

Blair · Mar 11, 2011

bill gonorrhea said:
Youre kind of misleading the thread. It says more likely than other religions. Not just that they think Islam is a violent religion. All religions have violent extremists.

I think a good question would be 'Do you think Christianity's violent extremists are on par and as numerous as Islams violent extremists?'

TheHeretic · Mar 11, 2011

empty vessel said:
So you don't have any good faith reason to doubt the assertion? You're just playing games? Yes or no?

The reason to doubt the assertion would be to not be completely hopeless in history. Some of the deadliest empires were from the east.

Escape Goat · Mar 11, 2011

speculawyer said:
Conservatives are paranoid and afraid. News at 11.

haha, i was thinking the same thing. Poor Tea partiers.

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