[Flying_Phoenix]

Agreed. Even the Rather interview, and Scahill on the panel, couldn't save this episode. Just when I thought it couldn't get worse they brought out Joel Stein. I think they need to make fewer episodes or something, because the show has been pretty weak for a while. It would give Bill some time to recharge his batteries, and the show hopefully wouldn't have to book so many awful guests.

I doubt it. The show has never been so popular. 4 million views per episode.

[Oblivion]

I so want to kill that obnoxious woman. "Glass Stegal had NOTHING to do with the recession"?

This was the best part:

http://readingisforsnobs.blogspot.co...at-romney.html

If her titties weren't so big, I'd be significantly more angry.

[dead souls]

I doubt it. The show has never been so popular. 4 million views per episode.

I know it was just wishful thinking, but 35 episodes a year is too many.

[Jooney]

I really dig the show and look forward to it every week, but the roster of guests has grown thin. It seems like the same few guests every few months. Like Scahill and Michelle Caruso-Cabrera have both been on in the last few months.

As for Michelle, I think the worst moment came when she defended Citizen's United with "bu bu bu but Unions!". As if the power of ever-diminsihing Unions could compete with the likes of a billionaire or two.

[Flying_Phoenix]

I really dig the show and look forward to it every week, but the roster of guests has grown thin. It seems like the same few guests every few months. Like Scahill and Michelle Caruso-Cabrera have both been on in the last few months.

Don't forget Norquist.

As for Michelle, I think the worst moment came when she defended Citizen's United with "bu bu bu but Unions!". As if the power of ever-diminsihing Unions could compete with the likes of a billionaire or two.

That part was ridiculous. Even prior to Citizen's United it was ridiculous.

[master15]

What a terrible panel, barely contributed anything to any of the discussion points Bill was throwing out there.

Christ folks...

[Jooney]

Kevin Nealon is always a funny bastard whenever he comes to Real Time. And Bill's Wifer Movement bit was top shelf.

[dead souls]

Kevin Nealon is always a funny bastard whenever he comes to Real Time. And Bill's Wifer Movement bit was top shelf.

Yeah, this was definitely a jump in quality from the last couple of lackluster episodes. You're right that the wifer thing was hilarious. It was much stronger than the mid-episode comedy bit usually is.

[Oblivion]

Arthur Laffer was fairly useless there. This is one of the few instances where I wished Bill would give some more time for people like him to spout something stupid.

[Mastgrr]

Paul Krugman was incredible. Wish he had the 1 on 1 at the beginning with Bill.

[sruckus]

I love when Kevin Nealon is on. Best episodes

[Flying_Phoenix]

Good episode. Bill was spot on with the Occupy Movement. Man so sad.

[~Kinggi~]

Excellent episode tonight. Funny, and a lot of good talking points. So bleak the outlook for this country when so much obvious bullshit is present.

[Autumn Wind]

I thought the Obama hologram was a bit hokey though otherwise the episode was great as usual. Huge Maher fan and glad I got to see him two weeks ago in Atlantic City.

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

Karen Finney was great tonight. She's a great commentator and I was surprised that this was her first time on the show. Hopefully she gets added to the rotation when available.

Those Drudge photos are accurate. They not always the main photo, but they're definitely accurate when Matt posts something in the left or right columns.

[Shadow780]

Pollster girl was cute as fuck.

[Thaedolus]

Pollster girl was cute as fuck.

Until she opened her fucking mouth.

[Shadow780]

Until she opened her fucking mouth.

Like Cupp, I wasn't paying attention to her words.

[~Kinggi~]

Surprised more people dont post in this thread. Maher might as well be poli-gaf spokesman.

[Flying_Phoenix]

Surprised more people dont post in this thread. Maher might as well be poli-gaf spokesman.

If there is one thing elitists don't like its other elitists.

[Zabka]

Kirk Douglas being interviewed right now. Should be an interesting show tonight.

ETA: And he's RIPPING on Orthodox Jews.

[Pecan1]

Ripping on Orthodox seems like a stretch, if you could even understand what he was mumbling. I gathered his position was just that religious extremists are a negative influence in any culture and assume his example of the orthodox/Hasidim was just stemming from him being Jewish. I get it hes 90 something but it seemed difficult for Bill to even understand him.


Also another great night of his audience clapping and hooting at obnoxious times.

Did anyone else think that Gillespie was being pretty reasonable about the Fast and Furious section, Bill didn't ever really try to disagree but Rachel Madow just did not even begin to have a counter point. I mean what kind of crap argument is " oh you don't know anything about me stop talking to me, its not my job on this opinion talk discussion panel to talk about my opinions or what i think about issues. My job is to present issues"

That was really the first time I've seen he on TV before but what an infuriating way to act

Wish the older man in the middle had more opportunity to talk.

And Gillespie on the far end seemed to have reasonable and interesting points on most of the issues but the hulk and Rachel were just like talking to walls. If they weren't on their own soapbox they didn't have anything worth saying

[Zabka]

Nope there was definitely some RIPPING going on

Libertarians say lots of things that feel right at first blush but are ultimately cynical nonsense that only benefits people and corporations already in a position of power.

[Dominican Power]

Ripping on Orthodox seems like a stretch, if you could even understand what he was mumbling. I gathered his position was just that religious extremists are a negative influence in any culture and assume his example of the orthodox/Hasidim was just stemming from him being Jewish. I get it hes 90 something but it seemed difficult for Bill to even understand him. Also another great night of his audience clapping and hooting at obnoxious times. Did anyone else think that Gillespie was being pretty reasonable about the Fast and Furious section, Bill didn't ever really try to disagree but Rachel Madow just did not even begin to have a counter point. I mean what kind of crap argument is " oh you don't know anything about me stop talking to me, its not my job on this opinion talk discussion panel to talk about my opinions or what i think about issues. My job is to present issues" That was really the first time I've seen he on TV before but what an infuriating way to act Wish the older man in the middle had more opportunity to talk. And Gillespie on the far end seemed to have reasonable and interesting points on most of the issues but the hulk and Rachel were just like talking to walls. If they weren't on their own soapbox they didn't have anything worth saying

Gillespie sounded like a douche bag Libertarian to me.

[Quazar]

Maddow you mad, you mad Maddow LOL

[Pecan1]

Whatever he sounded like was better then "You don't know anything about me". He defiantly wasn't making as good of a point on the fracking stuff.

But as usual on that show, it just turns into 3 douschebags yelling over each other followed by a snarky comment by Bill and then his audience going into a clapping frenzy for the stupidest shit.

I guess where I got agitated was Bill and Madow start talking the Fast and Furious thing as just a point to show off some republican idiots having a conspiracy about how its was just a tool to create stricter gun laws and then instead of taking about the issue they just start bashing republicans.

I dont know anything else about Gellispie but I liked that he was at least like whoa, you're saying how bad republicans are for politicizing/exploiting this issue, at least discuss the issue a bit before bashing the other side.

I mean what the hell did i just watch anyway, it looked more like an argument reminiscent of something in a university intro to political science/ issues course, than experts or political commentary "experts"

Maddow was def MADD

[kame-sennin]

Ripping on Orthodox seems like a stretch, if you could even understand what he was mumbling. I gathered his position was just that religious extremists are a negative influence in any culture and assume his example of the orthodox/Hasidim was just stemming from him being Jewish. I get it hes 90 something but it seemed difficult for Bill to even understand him. Also another great night of his audience clapping and hooting at obnoxious times. Did anyone else think that Gillespie was being pretty reasonable about the Fast and Furious section, Bill didn't ever really try to disagree but Rachel Madow just did not even begin to have a counter point. I mean what kind of crap argument is " oh you don't know anything about me stop talking to me, its not my job on this opinion talk discussion panel to talk about my opinions or what i think about issues. My job is to present issues" That was really the first time I've seen he on TV before but what an infuriating way to act Wish the older man in the middle had more opportunity to talk. And Gillespie on the far end seemed to have reasonable and interesting points on most of the issues but the hulk and Rachel were just like talking to walls. If they weren't on their own soapbox they didn't have anything worth saying

Gillespie is a terrible Libertarian who was needlessly making things awkward and personal with Maddow. He's a douche and I hate when he's on the show. Having said that, holy shit Bill and especially Maddow were embarrassingly partisan this episode. I think the 'fast and furious' debate is a perfect example of how democrat partisans are suffering from cognitive dissidence due to Obama's terrible policies. There's no reason to support Obama on such a terrible operation. Selling guns to drug lords, losing track of them, and then finding out that those guns killed two hundred people is fucking terrible. And somehow Bill wanted to pretend that wasn't a scandal because he didn't want to agree with the republicans. Maddow was even worse, and her claiming that it's not her job to have an opinion on the issues is fucking bizarre.

[Pecan1]

That's the first time I've ever seen Gillespie, but I guess the stuff he was saying about fracking wasn't brilliant; I wish The Hulk would have been more prepared to defend his position. Maddow crapped the bed as much as I wanted to like what she was saying, her reaction was awful. All she needed to do was say yes operation F&F was a huge mistake/farce / whatever and it's equally ridiculous or disgusting or however you feel about it that this political party is politicizing a failed ATF operation that lead to many civilian (Mexican civilians right?) deaths and even the ATFs own agents. I guess what do you expect in an election year? Why were those two even disagreeing?

The panel tonight just frustrated me more than usual because it seemed like a better panel than some past episodes ( i think i missed last week but I've prob seen all other this season) and then every time a discussion moved forward the idiot audience would go nuts for some seemly unimportant quip or it would turn into Gillespie and Maddow talking over each other. I get this feeling every time I tune in that I'm just watching these supposed intelligent political minds/commentators just sit there spinning their wheels not being able to form a good argument for anything ever. I think a lot has to do w/ Bill always having to be right and have the last word and also the panel never seems prepared to talk about what the show covers. Any time they start to get traction and progress in the discussion they have to switch sections.

Watching this show is like eating milk duds while sitting in the dentist chair.

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Having said that, holy shit Bill and especially Maddow were embarrassingly partisan this episode. I think the 'fast and furious' debate is a perfect example of how democrat partisans are suffering from cognitive dissidence due to Obama's terrible policies. There's no reason to support Obama on such a terrible operation. Selling guns to drug lords, losing track of them, and then finding out that those guns killed two hundred people is fucking terrible. And somehow Bill wanted to pretend that wasn't a scandal because he didn't want to agree with the republicans. Maddow was even worse, and her claiming that it's not her job to have an opinion on the issues is fucking bizarre.

Pretty much. Maddow was terrible tonight. It didn't help that anytime she said anything, the audience clapped and hooted for her. Maddow somehow trying to steer the conversation into republicans thinking this was a plan by Obama to bring more gun control is missing the mark. This is a serious screw up by the government, made worse by the Attorney General fucking up.

The only guy with anything intelligent to say was the guy in the middle, who got drowned out by the 2 morons on the sides.

[Agnostic]

I wanted a conversation and it ended up as cable news.

And Kirk Douglas was fucking gone. RIP.

[dead souls]

Gillespie sounded like a douche bag Libertarian to me.

So he sounded like exactly what he is, I guess.

I can't stand the Fonzie of Freedom. He's easily one of the worst regular guests that Maher has on. His assertion that he's an independent is laughable. Libertarians are basically a wing of the Republican party. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

[Autumn Wind]

The Overtime segment isn't too bad. I couldn't watch the Kirk Douglas interview but gave up after a minute.

The only thing I liked about Gillespie was his leather jacket. The panel didn't blend well though not every panel can. It was better than the episode with Kennedy by a mile.

[Flying_Phoenix]

My thoughts:

- Rachel Maddow and Maher were so embarrassing with their stances on Fast and Furious. It doesn't boil down to "the Black president is not only trying to turn the country into a Socialist State, but he's also selling bad guys guns!" It was a legitimate fuck up on his part and it deserves to be investigated.

- Gillespie had good points with Fast and Furious. I also agree with him that environmentalists do get a bit too sensitive some times, and yes if solar didn't have the whole "the ends justifies the means" approach they would be against it. Everything else I disagree with him. The guy is such a man child in which he not only accuses people of being stubborn and partisan, but than proceeds to do the exact same. I don't even think I need to give any examples of this. I'm not surprised of Rachel's attitude toward him at all.

- Rachel Maddow "I present the news to the audience I don't give them my opinion on it!" What the fuck? Your show is practically a political pundit program. It isn't much different than the O'Reily Factor. Of course you give people your opinion. When you explain for ten minutes why, in your eyes, congress not passing something is a big deal and dissect the causes and effects of the plan, that is by definition giving me your opinion.

- Kirk Douglass shouldn't have been on. Don't get me wrong the guy is a legend, and has done some fantastic work for the country. But he's 95, I mean I couldn't understand what he was saying and neither could Maher. He also seemed a bit out of it. I still find it hard to believe Maher about him doing a one man show.

- New Rules was spot on.

The episode was entertaining to say the least.

[ViperVisor]

Issa is a piece of shit and this is 99.9% about politics.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/polit...t-era-20120621

What is the recently GOP history has you thinking they care about doing real oversight in congress?

[Y2Kev]

I don't understand Maddow's "you don't know anything about me" stuff. It isn't really presupposing anything personal to say, "Do you support Romneycare?" That came off really poorly.

Then her other zinger was, "It's not my job to take positions on these things, I just cover them." What? I know I'm paraphrasing and Gillespie is a fuckidiot, but I thought that was a fine question...

[XMonkey]

Ya, Maddow went a little off the handle there. Really didn't like the panel much at all to be honest, but New Rules was great (as it usually is).

[Death Dealer]

Did anyone else think that Gillespie was being pretty reasonable about the Fast and Furious section, Bill didn't ever really try to disagree but Rachel Madow just did not even begin to have a counter point.

Gillespie and Zuckerman were informed on the issue. Maher admitted he didn't even know what the scandal was about until a week ago. He looked bad saying Issa brought it up to him a year ago, but since he doesn't live in a bubble like Issa, he didn't know what it was back then either. Maher is not as informed as he likes to think. The fast and furious thing has been in the news for the last year. His quip about Congress holding Holder in contempt for being black while holding the position of attorney general was dumb, but it's par for Maher, at least he was trying to make a joke.

But Maddow was just embarrassingly partisan and idiotic bringing up that wild tangent about conspiracy theories and the 2nd amendment shit as the "real" reason for investigating Holder. Where did she come up with that ? It was just flak. As Zuckerman said, the issue isn't a conspiracy, the issue is Holder told two different stories to Congress, he lied under oath. Or if you want to give him the benefit of the doubt, as Gillespie put it, Holder doesn't know what's going on within the agency he's running.

And yeah you could tell Gillespie got under her skin. I don't agree with him on GM foods, or the dangers of fracking being overhyped, but Maddow really overreacted several times.

[Death Dealer]

The only guy with anything intelligent to say was the guy in the middle,

He didn't get much time to speak. But he's on the The McLaughlin Group a lot. It's a talk show on PBS if you don't know about it. I recommend it.

He's easily one of the worst regular guests that Maher has on. His assertion that he's an independent is laughable. Libertarians are basically a wing of the Republican party. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

He comes off as being a lot more independent than Maddow. Most libertarians would probably vote for the Republican candidate over a Democrat, but calling it a wing of the republican party is not that accurate. How many self proclaimed libertarian republicans are there in federal office ? Ron Paul and maybe a handful of others at best ? You might as well say the green party or socialist party is basically a wing of the Democratic party. It's an oversimplification.

[Oblivion]

Yeah, I'll have to agree with most of the folks here that Maddow done fucked up. Gillespie is a leather jacket wearing dick, but it was a completely legitimate question (even Maher thought so) and there was no reason for her to go off on him like that. Made her seem amazingly childish.

Also, why does she wear those stupid glasses every time she's on Maher's show?


And Mort Zuckerman's generally an idiot too, but it's a shame he didn't speak much. Though I must say, I was surprised to see him support single payer.

Gillespie and Zuckerman were informed on the issue. Maher admitted he didn't even know what the scandal was about until a week ago. He looked bad saying Issa brought it up to him a year ago, but since he doesn't live in a bubble like Issa, he didn't know what it was back then either. Maher is not as informed as he likes to think. The fast and furious thing has been in the news for the last year. His quip about Congress holding Holder in contempt for being black while holding the position of attorney general was dumb, but it's par for Maher, at least he was trying to make a joke.

The Fast and Furious shit was only being covered by right wing media at the time. Of course if one didn't live in their bubble, then obviously one wouldn't know about it.

But Maddow was just embarrassingly partisan and idiotic bringing up that wild tangent about conspiracy theories and the 2nd amendment shit as the "real" reason for investigating Holder. Where did she come up with that ?

Actually, that one's not a conspiracy theory. Maddow backed that up with lots of footage from congressman (including Issa) saying that Obama allowed this to happen so that he could repeal the second amendment.

He comes off as being a lot more independent than Maddow. Most libertarians would probably vote for the Republican candidate over a Democrat, but calling it a wing of the republican party is not that accurate.

Anecdotal evidence, but I have literally not met a single person (online or real life) who considers themselves "libertarian", that's ever decided to vote for a democrat. It seems that the social and civil issues never, EVER outweigh the economic issues for these folk.

[Death Dealer]

The Fast and Furious shit was only being covered by right wing media at the time. Of course if one didn't live in their bubble, then obviously one wouldn't know about it.

False premise. When Holder first testified about it last year, it was covered by the major mainstream media, CBS News, CNN, Washington Post, LA Times etc..

Maher was just flat wrong to say you had to be living in some bubble to have known what fast and furious was. All you had to be was someone that stays up on current events and politics.

[Death Dealer]

Actually, that one's not a conspiracy theory. Maddow backed that up with lots of footage from congressman (including Issa) saying that Obama allowed this to happen so that he could repeal the second amendment.

Ok I haven't watched her show in years. It got boring after she became an Obama cheerleader. But that's still not the only reason for the investigation. There are serious discrepancies in Holder's testimony. Either he's a complete incompetent, or more likely, he was lying to protect his boss politically. The 2nd amendment argument sounds like red meat for the conservative base. It's ridiculous on its face.

[Xdrive05]

Freedom Fonze is a terrible spokesperson for the libertarian minded, or maybe the perfect spokesperson for the contentious asshole subset of that ilk. dat Reason.

Maddow knows the secret truthiness of what's really going on, and you better know how "with it" she is, else she throws a fit.

Hulk behaves like a freshman who's vegan girlfriend won't let fuck her until he solves world peace. And, dude, uhh, there's like a documentary that expresses my opinion man. You don't know! Industry said it, therefore it's not true. Even Industry said that, therefore that IS true! It's all about the issues.

Guy in the middle wanted to shoot himself being thrown in with that lot. The viewer could relate.

Maher was his usual smug, douchey self. Frankenfoods! Science is only cool when it proves the stupidity of stupid religious people/Republicans. I hate people but animals should get the vote.

Mahers audience: Wooooooooo *clap*.... "Bush stupid".... Yeeeeeaaaaahhh *applause*.... "Republicans are evil" .... *heeeeerrrrp* to infinity.

I don't know why I watch this goddamn show. I'm part of the problem.

[demon]

Hulk behaves like a freshman who's vegan girlfriend won't let fuck her until he solves world peace. And, dude, uhh, there's like a documentary that expresses my opinion man. You don't know! Industry said it, therefore it's not true. Even Industry said that, therefore that IS true! It's all about the issues.

Who?

[pj]

Middle aged men should not wear leather jackets or roll their eyes like 14 year old girls. That dude was atrocious. Maddow is just as bad. Everything she does gives me douche chills because she thinks she is much hipper and smarter than she is. In that little clip before she show where she stood up and made a point while doing eminem gestures, I nearly puked.

I like the panel most when it is a republican that no one has ever heard of, a democrat that no one has ever heard of, and a celebrity that everyone has heard of. It is the worst when it is filled with mildly known people who have jobs similar to Bill, like Maddow.

[Xdrive05]

Who?

Mark Against The Machine Ruffalo

[dave is ok]

Seriously though. Why couldn't Maddow just say "Yes, I liked Romneycare".

She even lived in Massachusetts when it was passed. No one should ever prove Gillespie right.

[Xdrive05]

Seriously though. Why couldn't Maddow just say "Yes, I liked Romneycare". She even lived in Massachusetts when it was passed. No one should ever prove Gillespie right.

For reals. He represents the worst stereotypes of Libertarian douchiness. Too cool for school, dapper Nick Gillespie goes to the mattresses if you suggest he has an axe to grind or an agenda to enterprise up on your ass. No, ladies and gentlemen. He's not a dirty Democrat. Nor is he a knuckleheaded Republican. See, that would make him a partisan! He's not in the system, man. He's above it. And those above the unwashed masses are special. They are above having an ideology, above saying stupid things and being called on it. Rand help you if you even dare try to.

[pj]

Seriously though. Why couldn't Maddow just say "Yes, I liked Romneycare". She even lived in Massachusetts when it was passed. No one should ever prove Gillespie right.

I don't remember the exact context, but at the time I agreed with Maddow. She of course said it in a way that made her look like an idiot, but it didn't matter to his point whether she liked Romneycare.

[Lord-Audie]

I don't understand Maddow's "you don't know anything about me" stuff. It isn't really presupposing anything personal to say, "Do you support Romneycare?" That came off really poorly. Then her other zinger was, "It's not my job to take positions on these things, I just cover them." What? I know I'm paraphrasing and Gillespie is a fuckidiot, but I thought that was a fine question...

I don't remember much, but I think she blew up because of the way he asked.

It wasn't a "Do you support romneycare?" kind of question, it was more like "I presume you like romneycare right?". Asking something already presuming what the answer was going to be and what kind of point he was going to make.

I think that ticked her off.

[Dominican Power]

Middle aged men should not wear leather jackets or roll their eyes like 14 year old girls. That dude was atrocious. Maddow is just as bad. Everything she does gives me douche chills because she thinks she is much hipper and smarter than she is. In that little clip before she show where she stood up and made a point while doing eminem gestures, I nearly puked. I like the panel most when it is a republican that no one has ever heard of, a democrat that no one has ever heard of, and a celebrity that everyone has heard of. It is the worst when it is filled with mildly known people who have jobs similar to Bill, like Maddow.

So, graduating from Stanford and Oxford doesn't make you smarter than most people?