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Sweden just got a new 5 star jail

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We have a similar one since 2 years (afaik) in the town Leoben. I live 20 min from it and it looks really fascinating. mostly made of glas, wood and steel.

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nyong

Banned
I remember watching a video and reading an article about similar Canadian prisons. Apparently they have a significant problem in some areas with Americans crossing over to rob their homes as the "time" is much easier to swallow across the border.
 

Rapstah

Member
iamaustrian said:
There's something missing from this picture...

austrian_jail_swedish_mnby.jpg


Much better.

nyong said:
I remember watching a video and reading an article about similar Canadian prisons. Apparently they have a significant problem in some areas with Americans crossing over to rob their homes as the "time" is much easier to swallow across the border.
That's a problem with the robbers and not the Canadian system though, come on, no robber actually expects nor wants to go to jail.
 
LQX said:
When you get a setup like this for committing a crime it is luxury compared to many other prisons around the world. Prison should not be something you want to go back to if you fall on hard times.
haktessido1.jpg


haktessido2.jpg


haktessido3.jpg

I doubt very seriously that you would want to return to a state of affairs in which your liberty is deprived. In short, what you're saying just isn't factually true. I don't know why you think these pictures change that. If you would trade your liberty just to use some Ikea furniture, then I think that just speaks to your own warped values.

nyong said:
I remember watching a video and reading an article about similar Canadian prisons. Apparently they have a significant problem in some areas with Americans crossing over to rob their homes as the "time" is much easier to swallow across the border.

That's almost certainly not true. Sounds like typical fear-based propaganda.
 

nyong

Banned
empty vessel said:
That's almost certainly not true. Sounds like typical fear-based propaganda.
It's not fear, it's common sense. If parking tickets were $50 on 5th Street, but only $5 on 6th Street, do you think that this would impact where people chose to break the rules?
 

nyong

Banned
empty vessel said:
Ok, if the penalty were $1k on 5th Street versus $5 on 6th Street, do you think this would impact where people chose to break the rules? You'd have to be insane to argue no. And it's not automatically ''fear'' when talking about negative consequences, btw.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Prisen said:
Murderers are like <1% of criminals right? So what you're saying is that Sweden is doing a better job in your opinion in >99% of the cases.

Murderers, people who beat their kids, rapists...any violent criminal should be punished first and foremost. And yea, like I said, I suppose Sweden is doing a better job for all those other crimes, but I don't even think people should do time for nonviolent crimes anyways...waste of taxpayer money.

empty vessel said:
Why? Your authority alone is insufficient support for this proposition. Especially since you've essentially described murder as a product, at least in part, of factors outside an individual's control.

That's exactly the type of sentiment that prevents justice from being served as it should these days. We no longer place responsibility on individuals. You're probably the type of person that thinks McDonalds should post their nutrion facts on a big poster in their restaurant so that the customer knows that what he's eating is unhealthy, otherwise McDonalds would be at fault.

What I was saying is that Sweden's lack of violence isn't due to it's rehabilitation-focused prison system. Some people in this topic were suggesting otherwise.

empty vessel said:
Punishment can satisfy emotions in the person doling it out, but it doesn't actually solve any real problems.

There's enough people on this planet for a few bad apples to be expendable. You fuck up and beat your kid for example, I couldn't care less if you've a Masters in Genetic Engineering, your value to society is null and void until you've been punished, whether that comes in the form of capital punishment or incarceration. At least that's the way I see it.

trineo_feo said:
Yeah, no. It's the opposite. In civilized countries, justice and prisons are precisely to rehabilitate the criminal and convert him into a valuable asset for society. If it were for punishment, then we would have death penalty everyday in front of an audience, like in the Middle Ages.

A lot of people mistakenly believe the only goal for that type of scenario is deterrence, but it also satisfies the need for society to have moral values which it's willing to uphold to the death.
 
nyong said:
Ok, if the penalty were $1k on 5th Street versus $5 on 6th Street, do you think this would impact where people chose to break the rules? You'd have to be insane to argue no. And it's not automatically ''fear'' when talking about negative consequences, btw.

People typically both do not know nor consider penalties when committing crimes. If they believed they would be caught, they wouldn't commit them in almost all instances. This is more true as the severity of the crime increases. Most crimes are borne of a mix of opportunity and desperation, not calmly-considered risk-benefit analyses. Indeed, people who commit crimes are disproportionately mentally ill and cognitively impaired.
 

Weenerz

Banned
You know, that actually sounds like a great place to break the law. Live there rent free for the rest of your life with food, bedding, television and video games? Where do I sign up?
 

tnsply100

Banned
ConfusingJazz said:
Yup.

Small, ethnically homogeneous population centrally located around 1 or 2 major population centers.

Sounds like an argument against immigration that will break that homogeneity.

Does Sweden have significant immigration? Any problems? (I've read articles about some problems - but trying to get first hand info from someone who lives there) Or are they not interested like Japan?
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
Weenerz said:
You know, that actually sounds like a great place to break the law. Live there rent free for the rest of your life with food, bedding, television and video games? Where do I sign up?

just read this bit

Just to clarify for non-sweds:

this is a "häkte" (dont know the word in english) where the police brings you to if a prosecutor thinks you are guilty. You spend the nights there until court, if you finally are sentenced for a crime and punished for prison-time, you end up in a "fängelse" (prison) and the rooms in those buildings are problably not that nice like these ones.

then go over there and do some crime?
 

Shanadeus

Banned
tnsply100 said:
Sounds like an argument against immigration that will break that homogeneity.

Does Sweden have significant immigration? Any problems? (I've read articles about some problems - but trying to get first hand info from someone who lives there) Or are they not interested like Japan?
Sweden probably have one of the highest immigration rates in teh world.
They took in more Iraqi asylum seekers than the USA for an example.

There aren't any significant problems associated with these immigrants but there is a pretty widespread anti-immigrant sentimentality growing that a particular right-wing party has capitalized on to move their nationalist/Christian-platform forward.
 

Orayn

Member
-viper- said:
fuck that shit.

all prisoners should be killed.

what a fucking joke sweden are.

lets give these murders and rapists complete luxury and entertainment. fucking great.
So we should just replace jailtime with the death penalty? Interesting idea.
There's an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation you might want to see. :V
 

Vilam

Maxis Redwood
What a ridiculous waste of money. You're reformed by the deterrent of going to a shitty jail again. Coddling prisoners is a joke, prison should always be a punishment.
 
Wanted to get in before all the hate but I guess I am too late.

A golden cage is still a cage.
Playing video games all day while being completely cut off from family and friends is not as much valhalla to most people as for those on gaf.

Treating people like shit is just going to make them hate the world, american prisons create monsters.
I guess it's better to lock people into an isolation sell with no colour no tv no human interaction nothing to help pass time or keep the brain busy for months on end right?
I doubt people in those prisons will be throwing their feces at the guards and mauling eachother at each opportunity.

Put a dog in an empty cellar for a few years and have it play with your baby afterwards if you trust the US system so much, and let darwin do his thing.
 

Manager

Member
Lackmus said:
Just to clarify for non-sweds:

this is a "häkte" (dont know the word in english) where the police brings you to if a prosecutor thinks you are guilty. You spend the nights there until court, if you finally are sentenced for a crime and punished for prison-time, you end up in a "fängelse" (prison) and the rooms in those buildings are problably not that nice like these ones.

Wrote that in the first sentence in the OP, custody = "häkte" (as someone also said when translating).

Rapstah said:
Again, I'm not sure where the video games allowed/plenty of TVs info is coming from. It's certainly not mentioned in the Swedish article.

http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/1.1160148/speciella-tv-spel-kops-in-till-fangar

Hundreds of consoles bought from Nintendo and Sony, with de-activated Internet features and game saves. Can't find the article confirming the buy but I read they went through with it.
 
tnsply100 said:
Sounds like an argument against immigration that will break that homogeneity.

Does Sweden have significant immigration? Any problems? (I've read articles about some problems - but trying to get first hand info from someone who lives there) Or are they not interested like Japan?

Meh, I prefer the immigrant route, keeps society innovative, but you do risk social programs because the "others" or "outsiders" can become scape goats.

Its a theory as to why socialism and communism never took a strong hold in the US: Ethnic tensions were much stronger then class tension.

Shanadeus said:
Sweden probably have one of the highest immigration rates in teh world.
They took in more Iraqi asylum seekers than the USA for an example.

There aren't any significant problems associated with these immigrants but there is a pretty widespread anti-immigrant sentimentality growing that a particular right-wing party has capitalized on to move their nationalist/Christian-platform forward.

Oh, there will be.
 
Shanadeus said:
Sweden probably have one of the highest immigration rates in teh world.
They took in more Iraqi asylum seekers than the USA for an example.

There aren't any significant problems associated with these immigrants but there is a pretty widespread anti-immigrant sentimentality growing that a particular right-wing party has capitalized on to move their nationalist/Christian-platform forward.

Oh really? So, Malmö's crime rate hasn't skyrocketed in recent years?
 
I for one would much rather get stabbed in the eye by a hardened criminal than even risk rehabilitating them through humane treatment!
 

Sealda

Banned
Something Wicked said:
Oh really? So, Malmö's crime rate hasn't skyrocketed in recent years?

Dont be racist, there is nothing wrong with Sweden:) Everything is just like it always been. Perfect, yes. Its perfect, everybody lives side by side in harmony in Sweden and sings We Shall Overcome. Anyone who says anything else is a Racist.
 

Shanadeus

Banned
Something Wicked said:
Oh really? So, Malmö's crime rate hasn't skyrocketed in recent years?
I wouldn't say that it has "skyrocketed" but that has less to do with immigration itself and more to do with low socioeconomic standard and high unemployment in a few select districts which contribute greatly to the overall rising crime rate in Malmö.
 

nyong

Banned
empty vessel said:
People typically both do not know nor consider penalties when committing crimes. If they believed they would be caught, they wouldn't commit them in almost all instances. This is more true as the severity of the crime increases. Most crimes are borne of a mix of opportunity and desperation, not calmly-considered risk-benefit analyses. Indeed, people who commit crimes are disproportionately mentally ill and cognitively impaired.
This is nonsense. The law distinguishes between premeditated murder and impulsive murder for a reason. A home invasion often requires careful planning to carry out. It's not like most robbers randomly pick a home without consideration for time of day or whether the owners are home. Why? Because they don't want to get caught. Why? Because they go to jail. So? Jail isn't fun. Take a look at the three strikes laws. For the third strike, people know the consequences plateau (i.e. they're screwed whether it's a candy bar or a bank robbery) and therefore usually go for broke.
 

nyong

Banned
tnsply100 said:
Does Sweden have significant immigration? Any problems? (I've read articles about some problems - but trying to get first hand info from someone who lives there) Or are they not interested like Japan?
They have significant immigration and also significant immigration problems. Take a look at Malmo. It's basically an Escape From New York-esque prison. Ambulances usually don't even visit the place without a police escort. Suffice to say, alot of crime there goes unpunished.
 

Corky

Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
Sealda said:
Dont be racist, there is nothing wrong with Sweden:) Everything is just like it always been. Perfect, yes. Its perfect, everybody lives side by side in harmony in Sweden and sings We Shall Overcome. Anyone who says anything else is a Racist.

Huh? I don't see how pointing out if there's a lot of crime in malmö makes you a racist? On the other hand if you try to rationalize your ( "your" as in the general term ) racism by pointing out the high immigrant percentage and somehow try to correlate that to the crime...
 

Manager

Member
Corky said:
Huh? I don't see how pointing out if there's a lot of crime in malmö is a racist? On the other hand if you try to rationalize your ( "your" as in the general term ) racism by pointing out the high immigrant percentage...

It surely was teh irony. Swedish politicians won't touch the subject with a 10 foot pole though. And they actually went to a heavy immigrant populated area and tried to sing "We Shall Overcome".

Immigration minister:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQakZce3GhQ#t=01m30s

It's easy to understand the response, even though it's in Swedish. One of the most hilarious happenings in Swedish politics.

"Hello! HELLO! Now I think we together in this room should sing We Shall Overcome"
 
Vilam said:
What a ridiculous waste of money. You're reformed by the deterrent of going to a shitty jail again. Coddling prisoners is a joke, prison should always be a punishment.
Can you explain the US's recidivism rates then?
 
There was a guy from Estonia last year, who came to Sweden and killed some random guy to be able to sit in these prisons. Not sure if they counted on that to happen when building these hotels.
Madness. Literally an incentive to commit crimes.

I guess I have a backup plan for life now. I could always go to Sweden and kill a man.
 

Corky

Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
Manager said:
It surely was teh irony. Swedish politicians won't touch the subject with a 10 foot pole though. And they actually went to a heavy immigrant populated area and tried to sing "We Shall Overcome".

Immigration minister:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQakZce3GhQ#t=01m30s

It's easy to understand the response, even though it's in Swedish. One of the most hilarious happenings in Swedish politics.

"Hello! HELLO! Now I think we together in this room should sing We Shall Overcome"

Oh I see.

Omg I remember that video, what a travesty. Can't watch it without cringing.
 

Shanadeus

Banned
Manager said:
It surely was teh irony. Swedish politicians won't touch the subject with a 10 foot pole though. And they actually went to a heavy immigrant populated area and tried to sing "We Shall Overcome".

Immigration minister:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQakZce3GhQ#t=01m30s

It's easy to understand the response, even though it's in Swedish. One of the most hilarious happenings in Swedish politics.

"Hello! HELLO! Now I think we together in this room should sing We Shall Overcome"
Worth pointing out that this was a press conference in response to serial killer that had been terrorizing immigrants:

Det blev ett stormigt möte när Carl Bildt och Birgit Friggebo gjorde ett PR-besök i Rinkeby. Den senaste tidens attentat mot invandrare av den så kallade lasermannen föranledde en upprörd diskussion i Folkets hus. Ur Rapport 1992-02-05. Se fler klipp på svt.se/oppetarkiv

You don't sing "We shall overcome" when a serial killer is on the loose.

nyong said:
They have significant immigration and also significant immigration problems. Take a look at Malmo. It's basically an Escape From New York-esque prison. Ambulances usually don't even visit the place without a police escort. Suffice to say, alot of crime there goes unpunished.
That's just plain wrong.
There are problems in a select, few areas ranging from a neighbourhood in size to a small district of the city.

This is essentially like saying that New York is basically an Escape From New York-esque prison just because there's a high crime rate in some areas where ambulances don't even visit without a police escort (and this last bit sound almost like something out of Fox News)
 

Vilam

Maxis Redwood
SneakyStephan said:
Put a dog in an empty cellar for a few years and have it play with your baby afterwards if you trust the US system so much, and let darwin do his thing.

Did the dog do something to deserve that punishment?
 

Jenga

Banned
this prison looks nicer than most hotels

remind me to go to sweden when i feel like doing something criminal
 

Jenga

Banned
empty vessel said:
I doubt very seriously that you would want to return to a state of affairs in which your liberty is deprived. In short, what you're saying just isn't factually true. I don't know why you think these pictures change that. If you would trade your liberty just to use some Ikea furniture, then I think that just speaks to your own warped values.
.
talk about the value of liberty to a starving homeless man who gets access to a nice conditioned room with television, access to a gym and food if he gets convicted and gets sent there
 

nyong

Banned
Shanadeus said:
This is essentially like saying that New York is basically an Escape From New York-esque prison just because there's a high crime rate in some areas where ambulances don't even visit without a police escort (and this last bit sound almost like something out of Fox News)
Yeah, it's the same thing is many US cities. I don't think that containing large numbers of different people counts as multiculturalism. I don't think that treating immigration like a zoo exhibit is a glowing endorsement of their methods of cultural integration. Really, most of the West is like this unfortunately. It's nothing new....take a look at the Jewish populations in France a few hundred years back. Large numbers of people clammored for integration into French society. Integration failed to bring about conformity. Restrictions and oppression followed. History is basically repeating itself there, albeit with Muslims instead.
 

Orayn

Member
I propose we continue to ignore the fact that the pictures in the OP post aren't of a prison and carry on with armchair criminology-GAF.
 

Manager

Member
Orayn said:
I propose we continue to ignore the fact that the pictures in the OP post aren't of a prison and carry on with armchair criminology-GAF.

But the PRISONS look the god damn same, this custody just happen to be the most recently built.

Swedish prison cell:
fangelse_1146784b_0.jpg


Several years old so that phat TV is probably exchanged into a LCD.

If I remember it correctly this one is of a "well-known" murderer:
3d00edbd6090b062


ung_79756763.jpg


Oh, here's one from a prison for attempted murders, drug dealers and violence related crimes:
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Corky

Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
Shanadeus said:
Worth pointing out that this was a press conference in response to serial killer that had been terrorizing immigrants:



You don't sing "We shall overcome" when a serial killer is on the loose.


That's just plain wrong.
There are problems in a select, few areas ranging from a neighbourhood in size to a small district of the city.

Exactly, I was just going to edit my post to add that line but you beat me to the punch. I don't want people who don't understand swedish to click that link and somehow further perpetuate that "immigrants" ( ridiculously broad term ) are "just a bunch of loudmouth ....... " stereotypes.

Just as you said, there was a serial killer on the loose who specifically targeted immigrants, and here the top brass of the nation wants to calm the local immigrant demographic by singing kumbaya...
 

Vilam

Maxis Redwood
SnakeswithLasers said:
Can you explain the US's recidivism rates then?

It works great for those who made a foolish mistake and learned from their experience. Of course it entirely depends on the type of crime we're talking about. Many simply don't deserve to be reformed and should be kept away from society for everyone's good.
 
nyong said:
Yeah, it's the same thing is many US cities. I don't think that containing large numbers of different people counts as multiculturalism. I don't think that treating immigration like a zoo exhibit is a glowing endorsement of their methods of cultural integration. Really, most of the West is like this unfortunately. It's nothing new....take a look at the Jewish populations in France a few hundred years back. Large numbers of people clammored for integration into French society. Integration failed to bring about conformity. Restrictions and oppression followed. History is basically repeating itself there, albeit with Muslims instead.

The hell are you talking about?
 

Sealda

Banned
Shanadeus said:
That's just plain wrong.
There are problems in a select, few areas ranging from a neighbourhood in size to a small district of the city.

This is essentially like saying that New York is basically an Escape From New York-esque prison just because there's a high crime rate in some areas where ambulances don't even visit without a police escort (and this last bit sound almost like something out of Fox News)

Malmö got a few trouble areas, that are slowly growing in size. However, Malmö often gets headlines for things like:

Stones often thrown at Local busses, ambulances, police cars and firetrucks (at-least once a week, there are incidents)

A high rate of mugging and assaults

Organized criminality

Anti-semitism against the cities jews

Riots in some troubled areas

However, Malmö is the most troubled city in Sweden and taking that account and comparing with other countries most troubled cities, i think Malmö is not that bad. I mean, Malmö bad areas have nothing on France and Britain worst slums. I mean the actual living standard in Sweden's worst ghetto is like trice as good as in most other countries slums...

But in Sweden it makes news because since this is very unlike rest of Sweden.

Also, i had no idea this was during the Lasermannen period. That adds another level of stupidity on that Politicians comment.
 
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