[Angry Grimace]

I didn't, I only play with close friends, I'm anti-community for this game :lol

Putting together a group when you had nobody on was basically hitting whisper on the 10 thousand people on your list, most of them you barely knew, or barely knew what they did.

I'd get whispers all the time, "R U heals" "Can u tank oculus" etc. etc.

[Alex]

I think they're trying to bring something like that back since they mentioned those open world challenges or w/e that are coming, maybe 4.2.

I'll probably still just stick to guild though.

[DeathNote]

"The criteria on many of the profession-related guild achievements has been significantly reduced."

Is "That's a lot of bait" one, or no?

[HiddenWings]

"The criteria on many of the profession-related guild achievements has been significantly reduced." Is "That's a lot of bait" one, or no?

Doesn't look like it.

Professions Dust, Dust and more Dust! now requires the guild to disenchant 25,000 Items, down from 100,000. Dinner Party now requires the guild to place 1,500 Feasts, down from 5,000. Skinnin' For A Livin' now requires the guild to skin 50,000 corpses, down from 250,000. Gemcrafter Extraordinaire now requires the guild to cut 2,500 gems, down from 25,000. Master Crafter now requires the guild to 500 epic items, down from 1,500. We're Gonna Need A Bigger Boat now requires the guild to fish 25,000 fishes, down from 50,000. The Pen is Mightier now requires the guild to create 2,500 Glyphs, down from 25,000. Like Shooting Fish In A Barrel now requires the guild to catch 50,000 Fishes, down from 100,000.

[Tamanon]

Man, as I'm learning to tank(level 64 warrior now), I'm really starting to loathe ranged classes and Death Grip, but I guess it teaches situational awareness. Need to start modding out, at least get TankPlates to help a tad.

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Man, as I'm learning to tank(level 64 warrior now), I'm really starting to loathe ranged classes and Death Grip, but I guess it teaches situational awareness. Need to start modding out, at least get TankPlates to help a tad.

One of the most important things as a tank I've found, perhaps even more important than Omen (at least in multi-mob situations) is any mod for figuring out which mobs you have threat on vs. those you've lost threat on. TidyPlates with the tank addition or Aloft are the two main ones for this function.

[Zaptruder]

One of the most important things as a tank I've found, perhaps even more important than Omen (at least in multi-mob situations) is any mod for figuring out which mobs you have threat on vs. those you've lost threat on. TidyPlates with the tank addition or Aloft are the two main ones for this function.

Tank mobs on a tangent away from other players. Look at mob heading.

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Tank mobs on a tangent away from other players. Look at mob heading.

I dunno about you but a red glow around a nameplate is more instantly recognizable to me than monitoring mob heading when I may not have the option to move about so much, or am worried about numerous other things.

[DeathNote]

It's hard for me to tell where all the mobs are without plates. The default plates are pretty big. When you add in spell effects... tidy plates ability to show different colors for aggro and a graphic when it's attacking you is just too convenient and makes too much sense not to use IMO.

Edit: Clicking on the plate is easier than the mob as well.

[keeblerdrow]

My only main complaint with Rift so far is the lack of usable name plates. Back in 4.0 when all the name plates broke in WoW, I went over to Tidy Plates and I loved it so much I kept them when the defaults were fixed. Now, I want Tidy Plates in Rift because the mob-click in that game is seriously fucked.

[DeathNote]

The WoW thread is on the dead side these days. Thew new thread spark didn't last long.

[cuevas, PhD.]

The WoW thread is on the dead side these days. Thew new thread spark didn't last long.

Not much going on besides people complaining about the same shit.

[Bisnic]

The WoW thread is on the dead side these days. Thew new thread spark didn't last long.

Yeah, i thought it was weird that i woke up this morning with no new posts in a WoW thread, first time in a while.

I guess this is what happens when there is no new patch or content for too long. All those neat little features being added in the patch almost every week and forcing its delay should have waited a little.

[scoobs]

I'm going through all the new starting quests since I havent yet and its awesome. So much better than anything else they've done.

[bjb]

This game gets fucking boring - fast. One thing that pisses me off to no end is reused models.

I'm seeing models in BWD and BoT that we're in the game during vanilla. Really blizzard? Couldn't hire a new artist to make new mobs. It's just lazy.

Not to mention most of the fights are boring as hell. Only fun I've had recently was leveling a hunter. My god they're OP in lower pvp brackets.

[Bisnic]

This game gets fucking boring - fast. One thing that pisses me off to no end is reused models. I'm seeing models in BWD and BoT that we're in the game during vanilla. Really blizzard? Couldn't hire a new artist to make new mobs. It's just lazy. Not to mention most of the fights are boring as hell. Only fun I've had recently was leveling a hunter. My god they're OP in lower pvp brackets.

I haven't really pvped with my alt hunter who is lvl 72, but with full heirloom gear, i could 1 shot any mob around my lvl with 1 single Aimed Shot as MM before i started Northrend(Now its 1 Aimed Shot and 1 Arcane Shot lol). I'm going to guess it hurts as good against pvp players, unless they have some of the PVP heirlooms maybe.

[Miletius]

Last night was kind of strange. I don't get very much time to play aside from raids, so I was happy to get time for a heroic last night. I waited the line out and got Throne of the Tides. I hadn't been there before so I let the group know that I needed a quick rundown of the bosses.

The group seemed REALLY surprised that I hadn't been there before. It made for a very interesting run, as I didn't know what the heck I was doing for most of the bosses.

I kind of wish I had more time for 5 mans, it was a lot of fun. Same thing happened in Wrath too, got caught up raiding, left me with no time to do the smaller dungeons.

[Bisnic]

Last night was kind of strange. I don't get very much time to play aside from raids, so I was happy to get time for a heroic last night. I waited the line out and got Throne of the Tides. I hadn't been there before so I let the group know that I needed a quick rundown of the bosses. The group seemed REALLY surprised that I hadn't been there before. It made for a very interesting run, as I didn't know what the heck I was doing for most of the bosses. I kind of wish I had more time for 5 mans, it was a lot of fun. Same thing happened in Wrath too, got caught up raiding, left me with no time to do the smaller dungeons.

I'd say the heroics in Cata are more interesting than in Wrath, since most of the bosses (and sometimes trash) actually require something more than doing your regular spell rotation and ignoring what's going on around you and ignoring your interrupt spell, which is what we were mostly doing in Wrath. If there is still some 5 mans you haven't seen, give them a try. :P

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Pretty sure Throne of the Tides was the Cata dungeon I got to last since I did Mount Hyjal first and passed over Vash in my quick run through to 85 on my main. It's definitely a fun little dungeon, quite beautiful too.

And I already miss being able to ride on (or in, in the case of mammoths) other people's mounts.

[Supert5]

Not much going on besides people complaining about the same shit.

Quoted for the truth

[J-Rzez]

The WoW thread is on the dead side these days. Thew new thread spark didn't last long.

The game's pretty beat atm, and there's nothing to talk about outside of complaints, that's all. The majority of my guild now has froze their accounts, I see people saying all the time on the official and other forums, and I'm going to believe them this time when they say this. It's just in a boring state right now, and 4.1 is not going to make a difference. Especially once people see it for what it is, recycled dungeons, and a bunch of features that nobody was really asking for. 4.2 is the only hope of injecting life back into the game at this time, especially if that's when the next "PVP season" starts. But 4.2 is a long ways off unfortunately. Blizzard royally fucked up this time. I can't say I'm not shocked by all of this, as they started to really fall off during Wrath and it didn't bother them to let their fans toil in ICC for basically 12 months, a year. It's just confirming this is not the blizzard of old anymore, outside of the fact they're still the slowest developers out there.

Seriously, someone needs to sit down and have a long interview with these people, and they need to ask the hard questions. If you get "no comment" from them, or a walk out, it'll just expose them for what they are. If they give their typical generic responses that normally don't have anything to do with the questions asked, ask them again. Someone has to call them out.

I'll do it. Send me out there, I'll interview them. :)

[Mairu]

I had class late last night and got home and logged on right when they were doing loot for Sinestra :(

Sucks to miss a first kill, got to 2% the night before the kill.

[CarbonatedFalcon]

As others have said, there isn't much activity in the thread because there isn't anything new to talk about right now. We've covered it all. 4.1 release will spark a little more activity, but until 4.2 comes out (or is on the PTR), there's not much to discuss.


There is Portal 2 to look forward to though!

[Macattk15]

I think the only way I'd come back to WoW at this point was if Blizzard was going to open a brand new PvP server with no transfers allowed to it.

Starting anew. That'd probably be the only fun I'd have in this game again.

No high level alts, no heirlooms, nothing.

[DeathNote]

anyone know how to get Recipe: Transmute Water to Air? looks like a quest chain and trink was removed and you can't see the vendor without the item.

[Miletius]

I'd say the heroics in Cata are more interesting than in Wrath, since most of the bosses (and sometimes trash) actually require something more than doing your regular spell rotation and ignoring what's going on around you and ignoring your interrupt spell, which is what we were mostly doing in Wrath. If there is still some 5 mans you haven't seen, give them a try. :P

I haven't seen Shadowfang Keep. I'll try to hit it up sometime soon.

It's hard for me to really tell how much interest is waning/waxing. I started Cata up not intending to raid (came off of a year long break), but I got back into it. As a result, I'm not as progressed as most and am still enjoying myself quite a bit.

I think a lot of people are feeling how I felt about 3.2 (crusade patch). That was truly the worst patch in WoW history, at least in my opinion.

[water_wendi]

i havent played in forever but i didnt see this thread on the Community page.. had to scroll down. Odd. Or maybe not. Anyway..

anyone know how to get Recipe: Transmute Water to Air? looks like a quest chain and trink was removed and you can't see the vendor without the item.

i cant believe this still hasnt been fixed. That Blizzard polish at work. Its shining like a star!

[CarbonatedFalcon]

i cant believe this still hasnt been fixed. That Blizzard polish at work. Its shining like a star!

Yeah, they make continuity mistakes with quests and such sometimes. To be fair, the game is IMMENSELY complex at this point, and Cataclysm essentially overwrote many legacy quest lines 5+ years old. There were sure to be some things that slipped through the cracks.

[DeathNote]

Someone asked a GM about it months ago. Seems like they could easily make the mob visable or put it on a different vendor by now.

I don't think you can get the friggin Crusader enchant either.

[water_wendi]

Yeah, they make continuity mistakes with quests and such sometimes. To be fair, the game is IMMENSELY complex at this point, and Cataclysm essentially overwrote many legacy quest lines 5+ years old. There were sure to be some things that slipped through the cracks.

Its not just quests like that. Vendors that sold recipes are gone and its impossible to get those recipes. Thats pretty slapdash if you ask me.

[ToyMachine228]

Thinking of canceling my subscription. There just isn't enough to keep me playing until Firelands, which is still miles away. I have a lot of stuff going on in my life that I'd rather focus on, and other games I'd rather play too. For the first time too, I really feel like Blizzard hasn't met my expectations with the way this expansion's been handled. Oh well. We'll see. The only thing making me think twice is that I'm playing with a tight group of friends and friends of friends, and that aspect has been a lot of fun.

[Yazus]

This Hard Mode stuff ruined World of Warcraft.

They said Hard Modes are an optional, but then the final boss of a Tier content is Hardmode only, requires full Hard Mode gear.
Also, if Normals are good balanced, Hard Modes are fucking HARD.

And this means there are a lot of guilds that have decided to NOT run them. For example, my guild had more than 30 confirms each night. We raid 25 man, 5 nights a week from 21 to midnight. We cleared Normals two months ago and we started HCs, we are 5/13 and we now decided that its not worth the hassle.

We started getting 22/23 confirms per night, and with those we had to raid 10HM, which is hard and people complain that they dont get invited in raid, leaving the guild. This problem is tearing apart many guilds in my server, as far as I know.

And it's all becasue 50% completed Normals and does not know what to do, because HMs are TOO difficult compared to Normals. We don't find enough players to recruit because a lot of people is just giving up until 4.2. 4.1 is not gonna get players back.

Awww yeah we got 2 Heroics. Who cares? I'm full 359 with three 372 epics. Who cares If I can get 353 or 980VP spamming the same Heroics all over?

Seriously, this stall needs to end. We need new and fresh content, with Harder normals and easier Heroics. The gap between Normals and Heroics is just too big. The increase of difficulty from normal Halfus to Ascendant Council, for example, is non existant. The gap between Halfus normal and Chogall normal is really tiny. The gap from Chogall normal to Halfus HM is incredible, not to mention the increase from Halfus HM to Ascendant HM. Its just mind blowing.

The difficulty curve in normals is non existant with the exeption of Cho'Gall and Nefarian.
The difficulty gap from normal to heroic is awfully big.
The difficulty curve from one boss to another in heroic is AWFULLY enormous cumlinating with nearly impossible bosses like Sinestra
That AINT fun, thats obnoxious

[DeathNote]

The Auction House is really bothering me. Gold farmers, gathering botters, and undercut botters force legit players to spend too many hours on it. This is coming from someone who has done well financially in Cat, but it required too much time.

Future games really need to fix this obligation and innovate it.

Characters making money in fantasy media like movies is so much more interesting than manipulating a UI for hours. It's quirky and fun in movies. Wow pumps it out like a machine in small amounts from quest rewards to simulate the concept. In things like Cowboy Bebob they got enough to survive. Everyone is trying and can be a millionaire in WOW.

That shouldn't be the goal. Doing so much shit by yourself for your own personal gain kind of hurts the social experience of the game.

[Supert5]

The Auction House is really bothering me. Gold farmers, gathering botters, and undercut botters force legit players to spend too many hours on it. This is coming from someone who has done well financially in Cat, but it required too much time. Future games really need to fix this obligation and innovate it. Characters making money in fantasy media like movies is so much more interesting than manipulating a UI for hours. It's quirky and fun in movies. Wow pumps it out like a machine in small amounts from quest rewards to simulate the concept. In things like Cowboy Bebob they got enough to survive. Everyone is trying and can be a millionaire in WOW. That shouldn't be the goal. Doing so much shit by yourself for your own personal gain kind of hurts the social experience of the game.

Actually its been a blessing as botters will undercut each other by 10/20% I've been using the auction house to build gold rather then spending mindless hours picking at ores to lose all my sanity.

[TheYanger]

This Hard Mode stuff ruined World of Warcraft. They said Hard Modes are an optional, but then the final boss of a Tier content is Hardmode only, requires full Hard Mode gear. Also, if Normals are good balanced, Hard Modes are fucking HARD. And this means there are a lot of guilds that have decided to NOT run them. For example, my guild had more than 30 confirms each night. We raid 25 man, 5 nights a week from 21 to midnight. We cleared Normals two months ago and we started HCs, we are 5/13 and we now decided that its not worth the hassle. We started getting 22/23 confirms per night, and with those we had to raid 10HM, which is hard and people complain that they dont get invited in raid, leaving the guild. This problem is tearing apart many guilds in my server, as far as I know. And it's all becasue 50% completed Normals and does not know what to do, because HMs are TOO difficult compared to Normals. We don't find enough players to recruit because a lot of people is just giving up until 4.2. 4.1 is not gonna get players back. Awww yeah we got 2 Heroics. Who cares? I'm full 359 with three 372 epics. Who cares If I can get 353 or 980VP spamming the same Heroics all over? Seriously, this stall needs to end. We need new and fresh content, with Harder normals and easier Heroics. The gap between Normals and Heroics is just too big. The increase of difficulty from normal Halfus to Ascendant Council, for example, is non existant. The gap between Halfus normal and Chogall normal is really tiny. The gap from Chogall normal to Halfus HM is incredible, not to mention the increase from Halfus HM to Ascendant HM. Its just mind blowing. The difficulty curve in normals is non existant with the exeption of Cho'Gall and Nefarian. The difficulty gap from normal to heroic is awfully big. The difficulty curve from one boss to another in heroic is AWFULLY enormous cumlinating with nearly impossible bosses like Sinestra That AINT fun, thats obnoxious

Absolutely no way. If they remove all challenge from raiding, any good raiders would quit the game. Your alternative is the way it used to be, where 'normal modes' were the only modes and most people still couldn't do them, because they were harder than the current normals. Wrath and Cata normals are essentially braindead facerolls, if you can do normals but struggle with heroics like halfus - HEROIC RAIDS ARE NOT FOR YOU. Your guild has 6 down, that's like half of them, clearly you're capable of doing it at your own pace. That's how wow has always been, even before hard modes. The difference is your raiders are clearly fairweather, effortless swine, who don't want to devote even the slightest bit of time to improving at the game.

I think it's fair to say that Gaf is a place where MOST posters are fairly competent at video games. Even though many of the posters here don't take wow that seriously or don't care to raid very hardcore, I suspect most players here COULD play at a pretty decent level. The vast majority if 'wtf we want to raaaaaaid but BT is too hard' type wow whiners are nowhere near that good. Heck, most of the wrathbaby TOC clearing scrubs feel so entitled that even the normal modes of cata raids are too hard for them somehow, there's not a lot to say about it. Normal modes now are as hard as the easiest content ever was in vanilla or BC, of course hard modes are a step up, there has to be challenging content in the game or there's no carrot to dangle for many people. This tier has a LOT of hard fights, which makes it brutal, but individually none of them come even close to the classic 'hardest fight in the game' examples, which tells me that any guild with enough determination will get it all down, guaranteed.

The only mistake with hard modes this tier was the tuning (Most are fine now, but 4 months ago some of them were A) broken as hell, changing weekly, and B) overtuned as fuck), and the sheer number of them that were hard because of it. Either some kind of gating or the acceptance that it's probably better for only about 4-5 REALLY hard fights to exist per tier would be a big step up in firelands. Dumbing down the fights is the opposite of what needs to happen.

[DeathNote]

Actually its been a blessing as botters will undercut each other by 10/20% I've been using the auction house to build gold rather then spending mindless hours picking at ores to lose all my sanity.

Buying cheap mats because of undercutters is one thing. Undercutters on production items is horrible. If you farmed the mats or bought them cheap it can be hard to sell the end product unless you sit there and monitor if you got undercut.

Either way, spending hours gathering and playing the auction house is shit gameplay.

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Buying cheap mats because of undercutters is one thing. Undercutters on production items is horrible. If you farmed the mats or bought them cheap it can be hard to sell the end product unless you sit there and monitor if you got undercut. Either way, spending hours gathering and playing the auction house is shit gameplay.

This is why I always feel nervous when I've invested a lot in an end-product item that I hope to sell, like epic armor, or Darkmoon cards. It's much more preferable to have gold in this game than assets, because the market is relatively volatile and assets rarely gain value, but can lose value rapidly. The longer you hang on to that stuff without getting it to sell increases the chance that it won't sell, or at least won't sell with much of a profit, if any profit at all.

Because moving big-ticket items is tense, and very competitive (because everyone else wants to get rid of their wares too, especially if they can't use it themselves), I tend to stick to more high volume markets. In Wrath I did mainly flasks, which resulted in modest profit, but Cataclysm I had a JC ready and made a small fortune off that - JC really is the best profession for making steady profit, especially if you get in early. Having a character with JC ready to go at the start of Cata (even though he wasn't my main) was a great decision. You make a lot of gold on the gems you sell, and save a ton on the gems you don't have to buy for yourself.

[SquirrelNuckle]

Currently leveling a Holy Paladin since their's not much else to do with the game at the moment. So far I'm liking everything about it, this is my first time healing and I'm finding it lots of fun.

[man of science]

Can someone help me out with iLvl requirements? What are they for: regular dungeons, heroic dungeons, regular raids and heroic raids?

After not playing since right when tbc came out this stuff is really confusing.

[SquirrelNuckle]

Can someone help me out with iLvl requirements? What are they for: regular dungeons, heroic dungeons, regular raids and heroic raids? After not playing since right when tbc came out this stuff is really confusing.

iLvl just shows the average item level of the gear you have equipped and in your bag. You need a certain item level to run some dungeons and heroics, that's about it.

[man of science]

iLvl just shows the average item level of the gear you have equipped and in your bag. You need a certain item level to run some dungeons and heroics, that's about it.

No, I get that. I was asking what the exact numbers are so I know what I'm aiming for once I hit 85.

[yanhero]

Can someone help me out with iLvl requirements? What are they for: regular dungeons, heroic dungeons, regular raids and heroic raids? After not playing since right when tbc came out this stuff is really confusing.

Regular dungeons - no ilvl requirement, only a character level requirement
Heroic dungeons - ilvl333

No ilvl requirement to go in to raids.

Edit: Looks like I'm wrong, ignore this post.

[CarbonatedFalcon]

No, I get that. I was asking what the exact numbers are so I know what I'm aiming for once I hit 85.

329 for Cataclysm heroics. Scroll down a bit.

(Had to look it up, it's been so long.)

There are some lower iLevel requirements for non-heroic dungeons, but you should easily surpass those just from quest gear.


You can ignore any iLevel requirements if you actually walk into the dungeon with a group though - they only affect the dungeon finder.

[man of science]

329 for Cataclysm heroics. Scroll down a bit. (Had to look it up, it's been so long.) There are some lower iLevel requirements for non-heroic dungeons, but you should easily surpass those just from quest gear. You can ignore any iLevel requirements if you actually walk into the dungeon with a group though - they only affect the dungeon finder.

Awesome, thanks. Didn't think to try the dungeon finder wowpedia entry. Looking up item level only gave me what iLvl gear the dungeons drop. Guess I should be fine with just questing for getting started.

[SquirrelNuckle]

Awesome, thanks. Didn't think to try the dungeon finder wowpedia entry. Looking up item level only gave me what iLvl gear the dungeons drop. Guess I should be fine with just questing for getting started.

Don't forget to grind rep so you can pick up sine epic items as well.

[Freyjadour]

Absolutely no way. If they remove all challenge from raiding, any good raiders would quit the game. Your alternative is the way it used to be, where 'normal modes' were the only modes and most people still couldn't do them, because they were harder than the current normals. Wrath and Cata normals are essentially braindead facerolls, if you can do normals but struggle with heroics like halfus - HEROIC RAIDS ARE NOT FOR YOU. Your guild has 6 down, that's like half of them, clearly you're capable of doing it at your own pace. That's how wow has always been, even before hard modes. The difference is your raiders are clearly fairweather, effortless swine, who don't want to devote even the slightest bit of time to improving at the game. I think it's fair to say that Gaf is a place where MOST posters are fairly competent at video games. Even though many of the posters here don't take wow that seriously or don't care to raid very hardcore, I suspect most players here COULD play at a pretty decent level. The vast majority if 'wtf we want to raaaaaaid but BT is too hard' type wow whiners are nowhere near that good. Heck, most of the wrathbaby TOC clearing scrubs feel so entitled that even the normal modes of cata raids are too hard for them somehow, there's not a lot to say about it. Normal modes now are as hard as the easiest content ever was in vanilla or BC, of course hard modes are a step up, there has to be challenging content in the game or there's no carrot to dangle for many people. This tier has a LOT of hard fights, which makes it brutal, but individually none of them come even close to the classic 'hardest fight in the game' examples, which tells me that any guild with enough determination will get it all down, guaranteed. The only mistake with hard modes this tier was the tuning (Most are fine now, but 4 months ago some of them were A) broken as hell, changing weekly, and B) overtuned as fuck), and the sheer number of them that were hard because of it. Either some kind of gating or the acceptance that it's probably better for only about 4-5 REALLY hard fights to exist per tier would be a big step up in firelands. Dumbing down the fights is the opposite of what needs to happen.

You try to make a decent point, one that I agree with to a degree, but the way that you devolve into accusations of "fairweather swine" "wrathbaby", etc. makes it pretty much impossible for anyone (without a strong need to justify the sheer amount of time and effort they spend to stay at the top end of a video game that isn't getting any younger) to see your point.

I'm not sure that your point about "Classic" hardest fights in the game was meant to imply that there were Vanillla encounters that were significantly harder than what is available now, and if it did not, by all means ignore this completely. That kind of statement is entirely incorrect and a large amount of the difficult guilds had with Vanilla content was a general lack of community awareness, easy performance tools, and the widespread use of theorycrafting, EJ, etc. I see this argument pop up from time to time and it is simply not true. The community as a whole is so much more informed than they were 5 years ago that Blizzard is strapped for creating truly difficult content without falling back on uninteresting methods of achieving this, I'm sure.

Anyhow, I'm still of the mind that "Normal" and "Heroic" needs to be defined at a guild level and not simply be a means of extending content past its expiration date. Personally, I'm so tired of the pattern of WoW expansions that I cannot see myself justifying the time spent on Heroic, but I'd love to do Normal with 9 close friends on the weekends. The option of higher difficulties should be there for those who want them, but expecting the community at large to enjoy "Heroic" modes without the addition of some silly buff ala ICC is a recipe for a revolving door of subscriptions based on how current a particular content patch is.

[ToyMachine228]

Currently leveling a Holy Paladin since their's not much else to do with the game at the moment. So far I'm liking everything about it, this is my first time healing and I'm finding it lots of fun.

I've loved playing a Paladin ever since I first leveled one during vanilla. I've never really spent time as Prot but I really like healing as Holy and I enjoy Ret as well. I've played a Paladin, Rogue, Shaman, and Death Knight as my main over the course of my playing time and Paladins are definitely one of the most enjoyable for me personally.

[TheYanger]

You try to make a decent point, one that I agree with to a degree, but the way that you devolve into accusations of "fairweather swine" "wrathbaby", etc. makes it pretty much impossible for anyone (without a strong need to justify the sheer amount of time and effort they spend to stay at the top end of a video game that isn't getting any younger) to see your point. I'm not sure that your point about "Classic" hardest fights in the game was meant to imply that there were Vanillla encounters that were significantly harder than what is available now, and if it did not, by all means ignore this completely. That kind of statement is entirely incorrect and a large amount of the difficult guilds had with Vanilla content was a general lack of community awareness, easy performance tools, and the widespread use of theorycrafting, EJ, etc. I see this argument pop up from time to time and it is simply not true. The community as a whole is so much more informed than they were 5 years ago that Blizzard is strapped for creating truly difficult content without falling back on uninteresting methods of achieving this, I'm sure. Anyhow, I'm still of the mind that "Normal" and "Heroic" needs to be defined at a guild level and not simply be a means of extending content past its expiration date. Personally, I'm so tired of the pattern of WoW expansions that I cannot see myself justifying the time spent on Heroic, but I'd love to do Normal with 9 close friends on the weekends. The option of higher difficulties should be there for those who want them, but expecting the community at large to enjoy "Heroic" modes without the addition of some silly buff ala ICC is a recipe for a revolving door of subscriptions based on how current a particular content patch is.

And you'll note that nowhere do I say everyone has to do heroics, they don't. That's the whole point. Normals are tuned to be doable, heroics are tuned as old raids were.That's EXACTLY how it should be.

I think you misread, I'm not insulting normal mode raiders, I'm insulting people who join a guild and only want to show up to loot night and hold back that guild, as the person I was responding to was suffering. Those people should join a guild more closely matching their wow goals. The fact that they don't makes them dickwads.

[cuevas, PhD.]

Heroics are HARD

[Duki]

god outland sucks

sick of this shit qq