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AceBandage · Apr 22, 2011

abstract alien said:
MGS on psp runs like complete and utter shit, so I don't see why they are even being compared.

Because lol teh 3ds is weaker than teh psp!

Xane · Apr 22, 2011

civilstrife said:
This thing will run DVD's.

Forget blu-ray
LOL at holo-anything

My BluRay drive can read DVDs and CDs just fine, why shouldn't Nintendo's custom drive aswell?
But I agree, they might stick with just DVD.

From The Dust · Apr 22, 2011

P90 said:
Not my experience.

buy a better drive?

P90 · Apr 22, 2011

MadOdorMachine said:

3DS. Game. Set. Match.

MadOdorMachine · Apr 22, 2011

AceBandage said:
1. LOL Using Namco's shit to compare anything.
2. The other games (especially MGS3) destroy the PSP games. It's not even a contest.

So... what was the point of your post again, MadOdorMachine?

The point is that the Wii2 may not be as powerful as a lot of people are hoping. It may indeed be roughly the same power as PS3/360. Ridge Racer obviously had some lazy coding, but my point still stands that the 3DS only looks marginally better than PSP imo. It's not unrealistic for people to possibly say the same thing about the Wii2. I remember when Xbox 360 launched people were complaining then that the graphics weren't a big enough leap.

Refreshment.01 · Apr 22, 2011

Xane said:
My BluRay drive can read DVDs and CDs just fine, why shouldn't Nintendo's custom drive aswell?
But I agree, they might stick with just DVD.

If they packed a Hard Disk drive they could keep DVD. But since thats hard to see they could run into space issues. Using HD-DVD might grant them a cheaper license since the format is death. But the drives are not in production anymore so if they start to make them again it might cost more that the ready availble blu ray drives, for example.

MadOdorMachine said:
The point is that the Wii2 may not be as powerful as a lot of people are hoping. It may indeed be roughly the same power as PS3/360..

Take that out of your head because it doesn't make any sense. So don't worry about it.

Also 3DS (while not powerful at all) is rendering 2 view points for stereoscopic 3D. Put it to render 1 view point and it smokes the PSP.

ReyVGM said:
screens...

Please watch the screen reposting. Saving bandwidth is saving lifes.

P90 · Apr 22, 2011

From The Dust said:
buy a better drive?

I think you are missing my point. A fast BR drive still costs more than a fast DVD drive. Or, put another way, a readily affordable BR drive is slower than a readily affordable DVD drive.

ReyVGM · Apr 22, 2011

MadOdorMachine said:

1) You are comparing screenshots, which are almost always bullshots. Compare videos and you'll see the difference.

2) You are comparing late-gen PSP games with 1st gen 3DS games. Some of which are ports and/or are reusing old engines.

brain_stew · Apr 22, 2011

civilstrife said:
So if it is that card,

What kind of performance are we talking?

Could it play today's highest end PC games at a decent framerate?

In a closed box at 720p? Absolutely, Witcher 2 and Battlefield 3 included (assuming a 30fps framerate and minimal aa/af of course).

antonz · Apr 22, 2011

01net is giving some more details on the controller. They seem to suggest screen resolution will fall into the 800 x 500 range. Such LCDs so exist in the 6" area. 800x 480 6" touchscreen is common for GPS devices.

They say their source says this is one of the closest MOCKUPS to the general design

Lonewolf_92 · Apr 22, 2011

1-D_FTW said:
You don't have to call people idiots for defying conventional wisdom. Nintendo did this very thing in 2005. It was a POS backwards ass CPU/GPU that they put in the Wii. And they had their most profitable stint in the history of their company.

It's wasn't hard to believe it again when the most credible leaks weren't able to say it was more powerful and were hemming and hamming. I'd say it was common sense to be cautious.

Conventional wisdom, no, common sense, yes. Even the most down of the rumors were saying that the N6 was slightly better, so even the over-under puts it at above 360 in power. Again, you'd actually have to spend more money to make a system as powerful as the 360 in this day and age than you would to make a system more powerful as you'd have to order the parts special. Technology has progressed.

Thunderbear · Apr 22, 2011

manueldelalas said:
Wouldn't surprise me one bit. There is no real reason to go Blu-Ray, unless you want to make your system much more expensive.

Remember Nintendo worries about things like loading times, and it's way cheaper to put a fast DVD drive there than a fast Blu-Ray drive there. Many PS3 games had the problem of slow BR drive, and developers had to copy the same data many times on the same blu ray to solve it...

Double layered-DVDs are enough for 99.9% of the games, and in the future this is unlikely to change.

This is simply not true. Developers are struggling with the space on DVDs and how much they have to compress. It's a big deal for the majority of games. Game developers make do with what they get, but if you know much about game development you'll know that compression is a huge issue on pretty much all "big" releases.

Nintendo looks to be doing what they have been doing since the end of the Gamecube era. They are going to sell us old hardware at a premium price, throw in a nice original feature and make lots of money. Some people are going to be fine with this, some of us are not. I, for one, am not fine with it. If they are going to sell this thing for $399 and it's got a R700 card in it and an old CPU with just a bit higher hz, they are ripping me off.

The one reason I will buy this system, is because 1) MS and Sony's systems are still a couple of years off and 2) I want to play Zelda in Xbox360/PS3+ quality graphics, lastly 3) I make enough money that $399 isn't a huge deal. But am I still pissed off that I am not getting an actual next generation machine? Yes. If it wasn't for Nintendo's first party games I would not buy it.

Snakeyes · Apr 22, 2011

antonz said:
Thats because there has never been an actual statement of power. The statement was the Wii2 will share a similar architecture to the 360. A new Generation of Tri Core PowerPC CPU is a similar architecture while also being state of the art versus antique.

On Paper seeing Tri Core PowerPC the average uninformed person might assume its equal.

Do you have a link to the French article that talks about the system's supposed architecture?

NEO0MJ · Apr 22, 2011

ReyVGM said:
1) You are comparing screenshots, which are almost always bullshots. Compare videos and you'll see the difference.

2) You are comparing late-gen PSP games with 1st gen 3DS games. Some of which are ports and/or are reusing old engines.

Using pics of Metal Gear Ac!d would make for a better comparison.

wsippel · Apr 22, 2011

MadOdorMachine said:
The point is that the Wii2 may not be as powerful as a lot of people are hoping. It may indeed be roughly the same power as PS3/360. Ridge Racer obviously had some lazy coding, but my point still stands that the 3DS only looks marginally better than PSP imo. It's not unrealistic for people to possibly say the same thing about the Wii2. I remember when Xbox 360 launched people were complaining then that the graphics weren't a big enough leap.

And if it's indeed $350 to $400 and the size of an Xbox360 as IGN claims, it may be a full generation ahead of PS360. We'll see.

crazy monkey · Apr 22, 2011

civilstrife said:
This thing will run DVD's.

Forget blu-ray
LOL at holo-anything

'I will be very very sad man if that is true.

watershed · Apr 22, 2011

ReyVGM said:
1) You are comparing screenshots, which are almost always bullshots. Compare videos and you'll see the difference.

2) You are comparing late-gen PSP games with 1st gen 3DS games. Some of which are ports and/or are reusing old engines.

I agree comparing these screens is stupid. But in terms of his argument he may have a point. The 3ds is a very significant graphical improvement over the ds. But the 3ds still looks like an underpowered machine in terms of its perception (better than psp, much less than NGP). If we take the 3ds as an indication of Nintendo's approach with the N6 then we could have a similar situation. A better but still not good enough online, better graphics but not an appreciable leap over the competition, etc.

Personally I am excited about the N6 or stream or whatever because its Nintendo's first step into HD gaming but I don't think for a second that it will solve in one swoop all the "problems" that have been attached to the Wii or Nintendo in general this generation. Some of those being, online set up, digital distribution, 3rd party support, and multimedia.

First Children · Apr 22, 2011

wsippel said:
We know that they spent a rather huge amount in 2007, $370 million to be exact, after spending $103 million in 2006 (and only $34 million in 2003). Several sites considered that fact newsworthy back then. Yet it seems like they spent another $370 million in 2008, $430 million in 2009, and $489 million in 2010.

[Nintex] said:
Yeah you can look that up in Nintendo's reports, $596 million was projected for 2011, $400+ for 2010 and 2009 as well so over the last 3 years they spend about $1.5 billion in R&D.

Do someone have the numbers for 2004 and 2005 so we can do a graph?^^

BertramCooper · Apr 22, 2011

antonz said:
01net is giving some more details on the controller. They seem to suggest screen resolution will fall into the 800 x 500 range. Such LCDs so exist in the 6" area. 800x 480 6" touchscreen is common for GPS devices.

They say their source says this is one of the closest MOCKUPS to the general design

So if this is close to the actual controller, how does the motion control fit in?

This thread is moving so quickly that I feel a bit lost. From what we know, will the Cafe have motion controls or not?

Bizzyb · Apr 22, 2011

civilstrife said:
This thing will run DVD's.

Forget blu-ray
LOL at holo-anything

It's new hardware that is deigned to last for at least 45 years. Using DVD format would be really short sighted and another Nintendo blunder, i.e. carts vs cd

crazy monkey · Apr 22, 2011

antonz said:
01net is giving some more details on the controller. They seem to suggest screen resolution will fall into the 800 x 500 range. Such LCDs so exist in the 6" area. 800x 480 6" touchscreen is common for GPS devices.

They say their source says this is one of the closest MOCKUPS to the general design

honestly speaking I am very used to pointer controls now. I can not play fps using the regular controller. This will be bad for me.

Jin34 · Apr 22, 2011

MadOdorMachine said:
The point is that the Wii2 may not be as powerful as a lot of people are hoping. It may indeed be roughly the same power as PS3/360. Ridge Racer obviously had some lazy coding, but my point still stands that the 3DS only looks marginally better than PSP imo. It's not unrealistic for people to possibly say the same thing about the Wii2. I remember when Xbox 360 launched people were complaining then that the graphics weren't a big enough leap.

That's because many of the games were up-ported from Xbox/PS2, just like Ridge Racer on the 3DS is a port of the iPhone version.

antonz · Apr 22, 2011

BertramCooper said:
So if this is close to the actual controller, how does the motion control fit in?

This thread is moving so quickly that I feel a bit lost. From what we know, will the Cafe have motion controls or not?

Thats kinda the whole tricky thing. Motion controls have been suggested to still be in and greatly improved over even Move. I have a hard time thinking they are in a tablet like controller personally.

Nemo · Apr 22, 2011

BertramCooper said:
So if this is close to the actual controller, how does the motion control fit in?

This thread is moving so quickly that I feel a bit lost. From what we know, will the Cafe have motion controls or not?

It'd have to be detachable then

wsippel · Apr 22, 2011

BertramCooper said:
So if this is close to the actual controller, how does the motion control fit in?

This thread is moving so quickly that I feel a bit lost. From what we know, will the Cafe have motion controls or not?

It supposedly supports motion controls, but they're not standard anymore. The new dual analog touchscreen controller will be standard.

watershed · Apr 22, 2011

antonz said:
01net is giving some more details on the controller. They seem to suggest screen resolution will fall into the 800 x 500 range. Such LCDs so exist in the 6" area. 800x 480 6" touchscreen is common for GPS devices.

They say their source says this is one of the closest MOCKUPS to the general design

That mock up has way too much blank space. It looks like it could lose some half-inches around the edge and be much sleeker in design.

antonz · Apr 22, 2011

artwalknoon said:
That mock up has way too much blank space. It looks like it could lose some half-inches around the edge and be much sleeker in design.

Yeah and technically since they say it simply comes the closest out of designs so far it doesnt mean its fully accurate either. Alot could be changed but button placements and such could be right on

CoffeeJanitor · Apr 22, 2011

artwalknoon said:
That mock up has way too much blank space. It looks like it could lose some half-inches around the edge and be much sleeker in design.

It also sort of looks like a gameboy.

If the design ends up similar to that I will be happy, though. Knowing Nintendo it's going to look completely different

I still like the nunchuk design more though

Bizzyb · Apr 22, 2011

MadOdorMachine said:
LOL images

There's is nothing on PSP that looks as god as RE: Revelations, and that game's not even out yet.

watershed · Apr 22, 2011

antonz said:
Yeah and technically since they say it simply comes the closest out of designs so far it doesnt mean its fully accurate either. Alot could be changed but button placements and such could be right on

Of course, but I like IGN's better. This doesn't look enough like a controller, its more a tablet. I want a controller not a keyboard/tablet looking thing.

Krowley · Apr 22, 2011

antonz said:
01net is giving some more details on the controller. They seem to suggest screen resolution will fall into the 800 x 500 range. Such LCDs so exist in the 6" area. 800x 480 6" touchscreen is common for GPS devices.

They say their source says this is one of the closest MOCKUPS to the general design

That would suggest that they really did go with more of a ngp type of design style with it, possibly including sliders instead of sticks, which would make sense.

Graphics Horse · Apr 22, 2011

artwalknoon said:
That mock up has way too much blank space. It looks like it could lose some half-inches around the edge and be much sleeker in design.

Reducing it risks making it look like an NGP, heh.

brain_stew · Apr 22, 2011

MadOdorMachine said:
The point is that the Wii2 may not be as powerful as a lot of people are hoping. It may indeed be roughly the same power as PS3/360. Ridge Racer obviously had some lazy coding, but my point still stands that the 3DS only looks marginally better than PSP imo. It's not unrealistic for people to possibly say the same thing about the Wii2. I remember when Xbox 360 launched people were complaining then that the graphics weren't a big enough leap.

It may only "look marginally better in your opinion" but the simple fact is your opinion is wrong. There's no debate left to be made there, MGS3 and RE:R are both light years ahead of anything produced on PSP despite being first generation sofrware, that's simply the reality of the situation, there's no room for interpretation.

This is without pointing out that those 3DS games don't run in a hideous 16 bit colour mode and are rendering in stereoscopic 3D meaning that they'really doing twice the work for any given scene complexity.

watershed · Apr 22, 2011

CoffeeJanitor said:
It also sort of looks like a gameboy.

Hey, you're right! That'd be pretty cool if the console looked like a modernized SNES and the controllers looked like modernized gamboys! The thing would sell on retro nostalgia alone.

Krowley said:
possibly including sliders instead of sticks, which would make sense.

NOOOOO! The slider works good for the 3ds but sticks are far superior and unless Nintendo wants you sticking this thing in your pocket or down your pants there's no need for sliders, unless of course it does have some sort of clamshell design.

DeathbyVolcano · Apr 22, 2011

I still think Café will be more powerful than some people are expecting. I'm thinking 64 to Dreamcast type of transition.

neoanarch · Apr 22, 2011

Graphics Horse said:
Reducing it risks making it look like an NGP, heh.

the androgyne made this mockup.
http://i54.tinypic.com/2u73cc7.gif

my theory if the 6in screen thing is true, then they'll try and reduce the size enough to mimic the wiimote. I'm trying to imagine myself using the NGP like I would the wiimote. My other theory is that its not actually a 6in screen. A four inch screen would probably be better.

perfectchaos007 · Apr 22, 2011

artwalknoon said:
Hey, you're right! That'd be pretty cool if the console looked like a modernized SNES and the controllers looked like modernized gamboys! The thing would sell on retro nostalgia alone.

NOOOOO! The slider works good for the 3ds but sticks are far superior and unless Nintendo wants you sticking this thing in your pocket or down your pants there's no need for sliders, unless of course it does have some sort of clamshell design.

but with sliders, the controlers can be stackable like books or game cases.

KAL2006 · Apr 22, 2011

wsippel said:
It supposedly supports motion controls, but they're not standard anymore. The new dual analog touchscreen controller will be standard.

or both will be the standard, the console will come with the new controller and an old WiiMote+

MadOdorMachine · Apr 22, 2011

ReyVGM said:
1) You are comparing screenshots, which are almost always bullshots. Compare videos and you'll see the difference.

2) You are comparing late-gen PSP games with 1st gen 3DS games. Some of which are ports and/or are reusing old engines.

I've seen the videos and I've got both systems. Is this a better comparison?

Kid Icarus VS God of War

Krowley · Apr 22, 2011

artwalknoon said:
Hey, you're right! That'd be pretty cool if the console looked like a modernized SNES and the controllers looked like modernized gamboys! The thing would sell on retro nostalgia alone.

NOOOOO! The slider works good for the 3ds but sticks are far superior and unless Nintendo wants you sticking this thing in your pocket or down your pants there's no need for sliders, unless of course it does have some sort of clamshell design.

Well, I mentioned earlier in the thread that I thought we'd already sort of perfected how to put a screen on a controller already with handheld systems. If you have a huge screen, it makes sense to do whatever you can to reduce the form factor to make it lighter and easier to hold.

Still, I see your point for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me.

wsippel · Apr 22, 2011

KAL2006 said:
or both will be the standard, the console will come with the new controller and an old WiiMote+

I really don't see that happening. There needs to be a single, universal standard.

KAL2006 · Apr 22, 2011

neoanarch said:
the androgyne made this mockup.
http://i54.tinypic.com/2u73cc7.gif

that mock up is probably the best I have seen

abstract alien · Apr 22, 2011

MadOdorMachine said:
I've seen the videos and I've got both systems. Is this a better comparison?

Kid Icarus VS God of War

GoW is 60fps on psp? Nice, if so.

neoanarch · Apr 22, 2011

KAL2006 said:
that mock up is probably the best I have seen

Yeah probably.

Except the detachable parts thing. I can't see Nintendo doing that unless its more like the nunchuck.

KAL2006 · Apr 22, 2011

wsippel said:
I really don't see that happening. There needs to be a single, universal standard.

not really, I also think Sony will do the same and have Move and DualShock be part of PS4, as well as Microsoft having Kinect and controller be part of neXtbox

Graphics Horse · Apr 22, 2011

neoanarch said:
the androgyne made this mockup.
http://i54.tinypic.com/2u73cc7.gif

my theory if the 6in screen thing is true, then they'll try and reduce the size enough to mimic the wiimote. I'm trying to imagine myself using the NGP like I would the wiimote. My other theory is that its not actually a 6in screen. A four inch screen would probably be better.

A few of us have been suggesting that the wiimote could become the size of a thick pen with a few buttons, able to be used for both TV pointing and touch screen use. The pad controller likely has enough buttons on it to make the sideways-held wiimote useless, although once slotted inside the tablet it could lend its motion sensing functions I suppose.

The Hermit · Apr 22, 2011

antonz said:
01net is giving some more details on the controller. They seem to suggest screen resolution will fall into the 800 x 500 range. Such LCDs so exist in the 6" area. 800x 480 6" touchscreen is common for GPS devices.

They say their source says this is one of the closest MOCKUPS to the general design

That looks like a freaking portable!!

Nintendo has to differentiate the controller from the 3DS or people will be confused as fuck...

KAL2006 · Apr 22, 2011

switch the DPad with the analog and when it is detached it would basically be a WiiMote

EDIT: the R1 button also should't stick out as much so it does not get in the way when detaching the controller to use as a WiiMote when holding it.

ThatObviousUser · Apr 22, 2011

Guys.

The controller is not going to have any movable parts. It's not going to slide or transform or fold out.

Tempy · Apr 22, 2011

antonz said:
Thats kinda the whole tricky thing. Motion controls have been suggested to still be in and greatly improved over even Move. I have a hard time thinking they are in a tablet like controller personally.

You know, a Sixaxis controller and an iPhone (and a 3DS for that matter) still have motion controls. So when a rumor states the N6 still has motion controls, it can still be true and look like a small tablet with controls on the side. Obviously it's different motion controls than a Wiimote or Move controller - no "pointing", but it's still motion controls

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