[tmdorsey]

Goddamn, I hate Walder Frey, just thinking of all those ways in which he would have killed Robb anyway. I really hope they get their comeuppance. The Boltons a well.

The North Remembers

[Violater]

The North Remembers

And Stoneheart is one crazy zombie

[gdt]

God, Theon is the best part of Dragons.

"He had known the miller's wife for years, had even bedded her. Big heavy breasts with wide dark nipples, a sweet mouth, a merry laugh. Joys that I will never taste again.

Which, to me, confirms that Ramsay castrated him :/.

And Robb, Robb who had been more a brother to Theon than any son born of Balon Greyjoy's loins. Murdered at the Red Wedding, butchered by the Freys. I should have been with him. Where was I? I should have died with him."

Man, Theon made a lot of mistakes. But I want him to atone so bad.

There's also a line in this chapter (the first titled as "Theon") where he says that he thinks of himself as Theon because he heard the old gods (probably Bran) call him that in the godswood. Loved that.

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Yeah, Theon's chapters were the best by far. Really anything in the north was pretty good.

[Emerson]

The North chapters in ADWD stood right up there with the material in ASOS, in my opinion.

[Altazor]

And Robb, Robb who had been more a brother to Theon than any son born of Balon Greyjoy's loins. Murdered at the Red Wedding, butchered by the Freys. I should have been with him. Where was I? I should have died with him."

that part hit me so hard when I read it.

I want the North to rise again, dammit :'(

[gdt]

that part hit me so hard when I read it. I want the North to rise again, dammit :'(

Soon it shall be A Time For Wolves.


sorta

[rando14]

The North chapters in ADWD stood right up there with the material in ASOS, in my opinion.

that part hit me so hard when I read it. I want the North to rise again, dammit :'(

Agreed

[vitaminwateryum]

Soon it shall be A Time For Wolves. sorta

2020.

:'(

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Theon's arc in Dance was killer. I had always been a Theon fan (and saw him a tragic character even back when I first read Clash), but Dance really cemented that.

The scene where Theon and Asha reunite is up there with "The North Remembers" as my two favorite scenes from the book. I get misty eyed just thinking about it. "You have to remember your name"

[PhoenixPause]

Still Writing There must be something about the words "dance" and "dragons." We all know how long the last novel took. And now I am writing the "sidebar" (hoo hah) about the first Dance of the Dragons, the fratricidal civil war between King Aegon II and his half-sister Rhaenyra, for THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE, and it's turned into a monster too. As of today, I have a hundred and three bloody manuscript pages (some VERY bloody) and still no end at hand. I had hoped to finish this one today, but... no, not even close. Lots more to write. I think there's some good stuff here, and judging by the reception my reading got at Chicon, most of you seem to like the fake history too. But DAMN, there a lot of it. Nothing to do but keep doing. Dance, you dragons, dance, dance...

http://grrm.livejournal.com/291766.html

Sounds amazing. 103 MS pages for one story...jesus, how big will this book be?

[Basileus777]

I get the feeling that GRRM enjoys writing ASOIAF history in large part because he doesn't have to juggle a thousand different plot threads and all the continuity and timeline issues each one brings. It's good to see he's still passionate enough about the series to write this kind of stuff anyway.

[PhoenixPause]

I get the feeling that GRRM enjoys writing ASOIAF history in large part because he doesn't have to juggle a thousand different plot threads and all the continuity and timeline issues each one brings. It's good to see he's still passionate enough about the series to write this kind of stuff anyway.

Agreed. I think you can tell he also seems to enjoy writing certain aspects of the later novels. In ADWD the north chapters flow significantly better than the eastern stuff, where Martin had to wrestle with all the plot mechanics and brick walls.

[Pkaz01]

I think writing about the history gets him motivated to write the rest of the series and creates more ideas for him to finish off the series. I would prefer he finishes the books but I can understand that he wants to write something less complicated and stressful to get his mind off things.

[i_am_ben]

I'm looking forward to the history book.

Hopefully it fleshes out Essos a bit more. At the moment Essos is, well, shit.

[Wh0 N0se]

Well he has said that he might write some more ASOIAF stories when the main story is finished, so that bodes well, he obviously doesn't hate the series like some authors do when the story takes years to write.

This World of Ice and Fire book is going to be amazing as long as he doesn't write about Littlefingers interest in Aegon II's trade policy (Unless it's interesting).

[gdt]

I'd rather he save the history for afterwards :/.

Fuck man he'll never beat the show, and we'll end up with a nightmare scenario.

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I'm looking forward to the history book. Hopefully it fleshes out Essos a bit more. At the moment Essos is, well, shit.

That would be nice, because I fucking hate last things Essos related. Braavos gets a pass though.

I'd rather he save the history for afterwards :/. Fuck man he'll never beat the show, and we'll end up with a nightmare scenario.

Yeah there's no chance he can keep up. Maybe the show will deviate so much from the books that the ending will be completely different. I don't want to know the end of the series from the show, but if it comes to that I'll have. Or avoid the Internet for the 10 years or so it will take him to get it out.

[Ignatz Mouse]

Different stokes.

I like Essos stuff because it's more varied than Westeros in culture and history. Some of the stuff happening there is dull, but the world itself is not.

[pr0cs]

Theon's arc in Dance was killer.

Yep, I'll never understand how people hated Dance, I mean as usual Dany's stuff was a lot of fluff but the Theon/Reek chapters were worth the price of admission IMO.

[Ignatz Mouse]

Yep, I'll never understand how people hated Dance, I mean as usual Dany's stuff was a lot of fluff but the Theon/Reek chapters were worth the price of admission IMO.

I loved Dance. Theon's arc was great, and frankly so was Dany's(/Barristan's) once it got going. I mean, she rode a fucking dragon.

[rando14]

Different stokes. I like Essos stuff because it's more varied than Westeros in culture and history. Some of the stuff happening there is dull, but the world itself is not.

I'm just hoping we get at least some glimpse of Sothoryos.

[Wh0 N0se]

Theons story is my favourite story in ADWD by a mile, I don't mind Danys at the start and the end but the middle just drags in my opinion, mostly just repetition of whats happened in the previous chapters.

It doesn't really help that I don't really like Meereen.

[CassSept]

I loved Dance. Theon's arc was great, and frankly so was Dany's(/Barristan's) once it got going. I mean, she rode a fucking dragon.

Barristan's ok, the only interesting things that happened in Meereen were during Dany's absence.

I mean ok, she rode a dragon. But after that we got a whole chapter of her having diarrhea. Which I'm pretty sure is some kind of GRRM's hidden commentary on her arc.

[ezrarh]

Different stokes. I like Essos stuff because it's more varied than Westeros in culture and history. Some of the stuff happening there is dull, but the world itself is not.

Well yeah, Westeros is mainly medieval England with some vikings. And with Essos, it's everything else from ancient history renamed. Count me in as one of those guys that don't care at all about his history book. If I wanted interesting history, I look up actual history. I read the series for the characters but at this point I don't expect him to finish it anytime soon so I aint even mad.

[Ikael]

I'm looking forward to the history book. Hopefully it fleshes out Essos a bit more. At the moment Essos is, well, shit.

I really liked Braavos, Qarth and Volantis. The problem is not the setting per se, but rather that there are really few compelling characters in Essos and that the plotlines advance little there. But the locales theirselves are really fleshed out, I loved the crazy mixture of Rome and Thailand with a dash of proto - democracy that was Volantis. I really hope that these lands gets somehow dragged into the Westeros conflict for a Great War type of conflict.

[PhoenixPause]

I liked Barriston and the Martell POVs in Dance, but most of Dany's chapters were average at best. Lots of political machinations I just couldn't care about, and a puzzling level of obliviousness on her part in terms of occupying a city and throwing their customs out the window (not expecting blow back).

I also really liked Tyrion's chapters.

[tmdorsey]

I liked Barriston and the Martell POVs in Dance, but most of Dany's chapters were average at best. Lots of political machinations I just couldn't care about, and a puzzling level of obliviousness on her part in terms of occupying a city and throwing their customs out the window (not expecting blow back). .

Seems like believable behavior of a 16 year old girl with a sense of entitlement because she's from royal blood and has command of 3 dragons.

[rhfb]

Friend got into the books after I let him borrow the first season of the TV show. Didn't realize how late into ASOS the RW really was (he is ~200 pages away, so I'm expecting a call sometime this week telling me I'm a bastard and that he hates my guts).

[arglebargle]

i know several people who are watching the show and have never read the books. i cant wait until the red wedding episode.

[jayb]

i know several people who are watching the show and have never read the books. i cant wait until the red wedding episode.

I can't wait for the red viper/mountain fight after the red wedding. People might quit the show after seeing both events ... assuming they'll both be in the same season.

[arglebargle]

I can't wait for the red viper/mountain fight after the red wedding. People might quit the show after seeing both events ... assuming they'll both be in the same season.

good point, that should also be great. especially if whoever plays the red viper does a good job.

i have only read the books once, but i am considering a reread. i was trying to hold off until we have a firm date on the winds of winter, but recently i have been really tempted. the more i think about the series the more i feel like i was blinded by stark love and lannister hatred and i think i would get more out of them on a reread, knowing what i do now.

[hemtae]

I can't wait for the red viper/mountain fight after the red wedding. People might quit the show after seeing both events ... assuming they'll both be in the same season.

I think that part will be in season four along with Joffrey's wedding.

[rando14]

good point, that should also be great. especially if whoever plays the red viper does a good job. i have only read the books once, but i am considering a reread. i was trying to hold off until we have a firm date on the winds of winter, but recently i have been really tempted. the more i think about the series the more i feel like i was blinded by stark love and lannister hatred and i think i would get more out of them on a reread, knowing what i do now.

Yeah I'm considering it also. I mostly want to get more glimpses into Ned's perspective in book 1 to see if I understand him/his dreams better.

Also the details between the show and the book are getting kind of blurry, it'd be nice to be reminded of small details I may have forgotten since the show came out.

[jayb]

I need to do a re-read soon too. I think I may have glossed over some of the history sections, which I know are more important than I initially made them out to be.

[arglebargle]

Yeah I'm considering it also. I mostly want to get more glimpses into Ned's perspective in book 1 to see if I understand him/his dreams better. Also the details between the show and the book are getting kind of blurry, it'd be nice to be reminded of small details I may have forgotten since the show came out.

i just finished watching the show a few hours ago. some of the grander scenes from the book (blackwater, house of the undying) are pretty weak in the show. arya is consistently awesome though, which helps.

i also just think that knowing what i know now, i might notice different things in the books.

[Sir Fragula]

some of the grander scenes from the book (blackwater, house of the undying) are pretty weak in the show.

I thought they did a good job with Blackwater on the show. I've read ACoK a few times now, but I still tend to run through the House of the Undying chapter without getting that worked up.

[Wh0 N0se]

I thought they did a good job with Blackwater on the show. I've read ACoK a few times now, but I still tend to run through the House of the Undying chapter without getting that worked up.

Yeah I thought the shows Blackwater episode was pretty damn good for the budget they had, they can't do everything and it got the main storyline into the actual episode.

I was disappointed with the House of the Undying but I've only actually read that chapter once so the re-read may make it seem like they missed a lot from the actual book chapter.

[Violater]

http://grrm.livejournal.com/291766.html Sounds amazing. 103 MS pages for one story...jesus, how big will this book be?

Someone needs to lock this man in a room and not let him out till the last two books are done.
Jesus christ finish one story then go write your prequels.
At this rate I will be finishing the story on HBO long before the books are out, heaven help me when did I start reading.....
./rant faints..

[Enosh]

i know several people who are watching the show and have never read the books. i cant wait until the red wedding episode.

it will be glorious

I can't wait for the red viper/mountain fight after the red wedding. People might quit the show after seeing both events ... assuming they'll both be in the same season.

why the fuck does everyone like that guy? he didn't do shit until the whole fight part (where he got his ass kicked and only "won" (well more of a draw) due to poison), his popularity is so puzzling to me

[arglebargle]

I thought they did a good job with Blackwater on the show. I've read ACoK a few times now, but I still tend to run through the House of the Undying chapter without getting that worked up.

Yeah I thought the shows Blackwater episode was pretty damn good for the budget they had, they can't do everything and it got the main storyline into the actual episode. I was disappointed with the House of the Undying but I've only actually read that chapter once so the re-read may make it seem like they missed a lot from the actual book chapter.

i should clarify. for the blackwater, i thought the part where they are on the water was pretty good (though different in strategy from how i remember the books; where was the chain?). once they were on land it just felt really small. especially once tyrion took stannis' forces from behind. once they flip over the ram there are like a dozen people on screen. i dont know anything about budget or whatever, just saying it felt a bit less impressive than it was in my minds eye. thats not really surprising though.

in the house of the undying there are far fewer visions than in the books. we get a lot of foreshadowing from that scene in the books that is completely absent from the show. also in the books a lot is made of the unimpressiveness of the house of the undying itself (i think, am i remembering this right?). it is pretty grand in the show, but that may be a bit nitpicky. my bigger complaint is the lack of content.

[Sir Fragula]

I think some of the visions just couldn't work on TV. In the books it's easier to describe a scene in a way that's accurate but still allows you to reveal it in more depth later. TV has to be more literal with its imagery.

[Wh0 N0se]

i should clarify. for the blackwater, i thought the part where they are on the water was pretty good (though different in strategy from how i remember the books; where was the chain?). once they were on land it just felt really small. especially once tyrion took stannis' forces from behind. once they flip over the ram there are like a dozen people on screen. i dont know anything about budget or whatever, just saying it felt a bit less impressive than it was in my minds eye. thats not really surprising though. in the house of the undying there are far fewer visions than in the books. we get a lot of foreshadowing from that scene in the books that is completely absent from the show. also in the books a lot is made of the unimpressiveness of the house of the undying itself (i think, am i remembering this right?). it is pretty grand in the show, but that may be a bit nitpicky. my bigger complaint is the lack of content.

They have to budget a whole season which included the Blackwater episode so that's why it seemed small scale.
As to the House of the undying, I agree, I would've liked more but as it's been said above me, it's harder to translate it and I imagine putting a visual medium on that scene could spoil the book potentially.

RE the Red Wedding, it'll be awesome at first but then there won't be many people left in the world who hasn't seen/read that chapter so we'll get less of those awesome posts by people who have just read it and are in shock/raging!!

[bengraven]

Didn't see this posted.

God...DAMN he's got 103 pages written of the SIDEBAR about the original dance of dragons for the fucking encylopedia?! AND HE'S NOT DONE.

There must be something about the words "dance" and "dragons." We all know how long the last novel took. And now I am writing the "sidebar" (hoo hah) about the first Dance of the Dragons, the fratricidal civil war between King Aegon II and his half-sister Rhaenyra, for THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE, and it's turned into a monster too. As of today, I have a hundred and three bloody manuscript pages (some VERY bloody) and still no end at hand. I had hoped to finish this one today, but... no, not even close. Lots more to write. I think there's some good stuff here, and judging by the reception my reading got at Chicon, most of you seem to like the fake history too. But DAMN, there a lot of it. Nothing to do but keep doing. Dance, you dragons, dance, dance...

Just fucking write it as a prequel so we can get this volume sooner.

[PhoenixPause]

New Podcast of Ice and Fire ep, including an interview of Elio and Linda on the World of Ice and Fire novel. They're writing it alongside Martin

Episode 88 for the week of September 16th, in which we are joined by Elio M. García (aka Ran) and Linda Antonsson, the founders and managers of Westeros.org. We get caught up on their various ASOIAF projects, explore various fandom theories, and discuss their experiences with season 2 of HBO’s Game of Thrones. We also cover chapter 18 (Tyrion IV) of A Clash of Kings. Notes: Sorry about the audio quality in the first part of the episode. The Melisandre/Jon theory was actually suggested by FTWard in the comments here. In other news, Amin is now on twitter!

http://podcastoficeandfire.com/

[ZeroRay]

Might as well consider the encyclopedia the next book in the series and Winds the following one.

I don't mind this arrangement.

[Dresden]

At this point I think I'll take a book about the first Dance of Dragons before whatever Daario-fucking Dany does.

[PhoenixPause]

At this point I think I'll take a book about the first Dance of Dragons before whatever Daario-fucking Dany does.

Get ready for multiple chapters of her traveling with her new khalasar, goes back to Vaes Dothrak, then rides all the way back to Mereen. 7 chapters here we come!

[CassSept]

She goes back to Vaes Dothrak, like she saw in House of the Undying and actually joins the crones.

Victarion gets the dragons and takes them back to Westeros.

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

She goes back to Vaes Dothrak, like she saw in House of the Undying and actually joins the crones. Victarion gets the dragons and takes them back to Westeros.

That would piss off so many people, but I would love it.