[Thunder Monkey]

Clearly Nintendo is following Thunder Monkey's train of thought, they have figs in their respectable japanese rectums. Who wants another underpowered Nintendo console?

I'm of the mindset that visuals are close to last on a long line of checklists I must fill to buy a console.

First and foremost it must have games that make my nether regions tingle. That's why the Wii was the first console I bought this gen.

[HylianTom]

Less competition is a bad thing, unless you work for Sony or MS it's stupid to root for Nintendo to fail.

Rooting for Nintendo to fail is a old, old hobby for some. They'll never learn.

[herzogzwei1989]

I just cannot wait to see my favorite Nintendo IPs in HD. I've been waiting since 2005 when Xbox 360 launched.

[fabricated backlash]

And if I were Nintendo, I would money-hat, either with publishing deals, or straight up start up cash, to get that young (or old) creative pool of indie game designers to go nuts with the tablet. Because most mainstream third parties will not simply go that extra mile to support innovation if they cannot reap the $$$ right back. That is why Nintendo had no choice but to introduce the controller even when their hardware was not really ready. They had to give those third parties time to contemplate ideas for the controller.

I think so too. But I think what's more important is that Nintendo needs consumers to get the idea and to demand creative implementations of the screen beyond the usual map and inventory bullshit.
3rd parties are going to complain like the little bitches they are, about how the WiiU audience isn't reacting to their innovative menu on screen implementation. You've seen it with Wii countless times. Then one company gets a runaway hit (Rabbids, Just Dance) and everyone and their dog runs in that direction.

Really my oppinion on 3rd parties being creatively bankrupt (at least in the projects they greenlight) is solidifying itself even more these days.

[Man God]

There has been something crazy like 5 Mario games in 5 years on the DS/Wii.

New Super Mario Bros. 2006
Super Mario Galaxy 2007
New Super Mario Bros. Wii 2009
Super Mario Galaxy 2010
Super Mario 3D Land 2011

Pretty sure if they wanted to they could have a game ready for Wii U's launch.

[Thunder Monkey]

I think so too. But I think what's more important is that Nintendo needs consumers to get the idea and to demand creative implementations of the screen beyond the usual map and inventory bullshit. 3rd parties are going to complain like the little bitches they are, about how the WiiU audience isn't reacting to their innovative menu on screen implementation. You've seen it with Wii countless times. Then one company gets a runaway hit (Rabbids, Just Dance) and everyone and their dog runs in that direction. Really my opinion on 3rd parties being creatively bankrupt (at least in the projects they greenlight) is solidifying itself even more these days.

Though it is funny watching them try to come up with ideas for Kinect.

They had trouble understanding a controller with a stick and buttons, no input at all?

Flopping around like Magikarp.

[Bluemercury]

I was wondering how powerful will the Wii U be... considering in terms of graphics power Nintendo seem to be 1 generation behind... Nintendo Wii = PS2 Nintendo 3DS = PSP Nintendo Wii U = Xbox 360/PS3?

This is not appliable at all in the portable consoles. Sony being Sony upped the specs of psp to match ps2 as close as possible.
NDS was akin to the N64 so it was a normal jump tech wise.
In case of home consoles it was only with the wii that Nintendo went for the underpower tech option..

[JGS]

All they need is a first party lineup, in HD, at launch and they can take my currency.

This is me. As long as they have their franchises near par with the other systems, they will have their hardware sales. Honestly, I'll be pretty distraught if the Wiimote goes away.

I'm still not seeing how people are deducing it's even going to be underpowered considering it'll be nearly 2 years from the time we learned about the thing before it's launched and everything they showed was tech demos to show off the controller. The graphics are fine and dandy from that bird demo they did, so I'll be happy if it achieves that which it will.

[word up]

I do! I love Nintendo <3 but if they cannot produce harware on par with MS and SONY, cannot create a compelling online experience themselves (or not buying a competent company to do so), cannot make a sexy design console (more white fridges?) then I could not care less for their results. Their IPs will end up somewhere anyway.

I have to ask why every console has to be almost identical? Nintendo could do some (a lot of!) things better certainly, but is not a bit of variety a good thing?

[megashock5]

I have to ask why every console has to be almost identical? Nintendo could do some (a lot of!) things better certainly, but is not a bit of variety a good thing?

I've been saying this since 2006. There's actually a compelling reason to own multiple consoles this gen other than exclusive titles.

[TwilightPrincess]

I know that one of the IBM chip designers working on the Wii U CPU shifted to a 32nm VLSI project (GPU integration) a few months ago. Seems related, as IBM usually tries to keep the console teams seperated during development. I guess it's possible Nintendo dropped the plans to go with two discreet chips and a CPU at 45nm in favor of a 32nm SoC project, or that the 32nm VLSI isn't integrating CPU and GPU, but GPU and I/O controller instead. Either way, if Wii U related, we're probably looking at a 32nm GPU designed by AMD, IBM and Nintendo, and considering the timeline, I don't think there's any remotely final GPU to put in devkits yet.

Interesting, thanks for sharing this information and thoughts. 32 nm gpu would be a good thing, i assume. Does anyone know when publishers get the final devkits?

[wsippel]

Looked a bit deeper into the iGware deal, and it seems iGware and BroadOn are one and the same. Which makes the fact that Acer bought them quite a bit weirder, as Nintendo is not only a major client, it actually seems they're iGware's only client.

The whole buyout thing is strange. BroadOn/ iGware was a company founded by Wei Yen for Nintendo. Nobody really knows all that much about the company - their website tells you absolutely nothing at all, not even what business they're in. I don't remember them ever issuing a single press release, giving any interviews or attending any trade shows. They were never mentioned in any Nintendo press release, either (but their logo is on the Hollywood heat spreader). The whole company is a mystery. Then all of a sudden, Acer announces the buyout. Now why would they buy a company nobody knows, a company that seemingly only has a single customer? This is where things get interesting: Wei Yen is not only the founder of BroadOn/ iGware, he's also a member of the board at Acer. So Acer knew about the company, they knew what they were doing and who their main/ only customer is. Nintendo is supposedly happy with the buyout, and it's guaranteed they knew about the move up front, they probably even greenlighted it. But why?

[monome]

Why would it compete with CoD or Halo? You must be lying about liking Nintendo if you made a comment that stupid.

As a Nintendo afficionado, I must confess I have a crisis of faith.

I'm not the biggest Metroid Prime fan, it's true but I played the games on NES/SNES and Wii but was not interested in the FPS style of Prime so don't hate me and by Metroid HD I refer to a game with FPS controls and I can hardly see a Metroid HD not being pimped in some sort of way as a great MP experience on WiiU. Selling the adventure and exploration is not exactly the way marketing goes these days.

[monome]

I'm of the mindset that visuals are close to last on a long line of checklists I must fill to buy a console. First and foremost it must have games that make my nether regions tingle. That's why the Wii was the first console I bought this gen.

I think it's great to go for something you lust over rather than a mere iteration of something you liked.

I am a bit alarmed at the recent news of a soon-to-be next-gen and wouldn't mind a few more years so thaht developpers are encouraged to innovate rather than play on visuals strenghts to get me interested. I was schooled in gaming by NES/SNES etc...so I do care about gameplay.

That said, money is on COD these days, and if Nintendo wants a share they have to play the game.

[Shin Johnpv]

I know that one of the IBM chip designers working on the Wii U CPU shifted to a 32nm VLSI project (GPU integration) a few months ago. Seems related, as IBM usually tries to keep the console teams seperated during development. I guess it's possible Nintendo dropped the plans to go with two discreet chips and a CPU at 45nm in favor of a 32nm SoC project, or that the 32nm VLSI isn't integrating CPU and GPU, but GPU and I/O controller instead. Either way, if Wii U related, we're probably looking at a 32nm GPU designed by AMD, IBM and Nintendo, and considering the timeline, I don't think there's any remotely final GPU to put in devkits yet.

Wasn't there some talk from NEC about something being fabbed at 28nm for the Wii-U?

[Lonely1]

Wasn't there some talk from NEC about something being fabbed at 28nm for the Wii-U?

It was about 28NM EDRAM.

[radioheadrule83]

Looked a bit deeper into the iGware deal, and it seems iGware and BroadOn are one and the same. Which makes the fact that Acer bought them quite a bit weirder, as Nintendo is not only a major client, it actually seems they're iGware's only client. The whole buyout thing is strange. BroadOn/ iGware was a company founded by Wei Yen for Nintendo. Nobody really knows all that much about the company - their website tells you absolutely nothing at all, not even what business they're in. I don't remember them ever issuing a single press release, giving any interviews or attending any trade shows. They were never mentioned in any Nintendo press release, either (but their logo is on the Hollywood heat spreader). The whole company is a mystery. Then all of a sudden, Acer announces the buyout. Now why would they buy a company nobody knows, a company that seemingly only has a single customer? This is where things get interesting: Wei Yen is not only the founder of BroadOn/ iGware, he's also a member of the board at Acer. So Acer knew about the company, they knew what they were doing and who their main/ only customer is. Nintendo is supposedly happy with the buyout, and it's guaranteed they knew about the move up front, they probably even greenlighted it. But why?

Acer would be a useful friend to have. Their expertise in tablets, phones, laptops and desktops could be useful to draw on in future handheld generations for example - and if iGware has growth potential providing some kind of cloud storage solutions for Nintendo, then maybe its simply a money making investment.

[fabricated backlash]

Though it is funny watching them try to come up with ideas for Kinect. They had trouble understanding a controller with a stick and buttons, no input at all? Flopping around like Magikarp.

The problem is simple. Their business modell isn't centered around innovation. Their business model is centered around following the current trends (design and gameplay) and making carbon copies of popular concepts with different skins and Hans Zimmer Soundtracks.

You have some few publishers and developers who actually spend the time and resources into R&D and those usually deliver amazing experiences that extend to UIs as well.

I expect EA in particular to be the biggest underachiever when it comes to the tablet integration on WiiU. I actually expect some interesting ideas coming from a few Ubisoft teams, but for the most part I can see small developers on the future E-shop to actually use the tablet.

I mean watching Ken Levine talking about playing Bioshock infinite on the Tablet in Bed right next to his wife, and acting like that was some sort of amazing idea for the uses of the tablet is quite telling. As much as I love Bioshock and the world they created. If that is what excites someone who I regard as one of the more creative heads in gaming, then you know it's going to be very bleak.

[Luckyman]

Have what? A comment based on what was originally thought of about Wii U? Says nothing about how it will compare to the other new consoles.

LOL. Denial was funny with the Wii. Now its just..

[bgassassin]

V1 and V2 has the same problems with graphic card, is not that is "underclocked", the problem is that if you use all the "power" the system is unstable or freezes. But the hardware is there. Yesterday I saw some info about V3 hw (latest) and is the same ... minor changes.

V3 is more stable right?

An old IGN article I saw indicated Wii had five dev kit versions and it sounds like Wii U is on a similar path. Any indication of when you might get V4? And you might have missed an earlier question I have (or didn't and couldn't answer), but are they currently using some generic looking box for the kit or is it something closer resembling the console?

LOL. Denial was funny with the Wii. Now its just..

Totally different situation. No one really expected Nintendo to do what they did with Wii. Most have an idea of what they are doing with Wii U.

[Thunder Monkey]

LOL. Denial was funny with the Wii. Now its just..

Meanwhile your schtick has never been funny.

[disap.ed]

Wasn't there some talk from NEC about something being fabbed at 28nm for the Wii-U?

That's what I am curious about too: This was about 1T-SRAM, but the question was if this will be memory on an external die or embedded, because the latter would mean a 28nm GPU (which doesn't fit together with the 32nm SOC idea wsippel brought up)

Actually we know nothing, the CPU could be both 45nm (original planing) or changed to 32nm (according to wsippel's source) and the GPU could be everything from 45nm (SOC acc. original planing) to 40nm (current customer GPU process) to 32nm (wsippel's SOC again) to 28nm (next years customer GPU process).

[P90]

Less competition is a bad thing, unless you work for Sony or MS it's stupid to root for Nintendo to fail.

Bad for the worldwide economy as well.

[cyberheater]

Bad for the worldwide economy as well.

Nobody who loves gaming wants Ninty to fail. I just hope that Nintendo manage to get their shit together about getting 3rd party devs on board and adds a decent online component without stupid restrictions.

[guek]

Nobody who loves gaming wants Ninty to fail. I just hope that Nintendo manage to get their shit together about getting 3rd party devs on board and adds a decent online component without stupid restrictions.

I don't even get why someone who dislikes their games would want nintendo to fail.

Like...why?

[ivysaur12]

I don't even get why someone who is dislikes their games would want nintendo to fail. Like...why?

fanboyism.

[JoshuaJSlone]

I don't even get why someone who is dislikes their games would want nintendo to fail. Like...why?

Y'know, so all those major third party exclusives that show up on Nintendo consoles will have to find their way to the lacking libraries of the competition.

[Deguello]

I don't even get why someone who is dislikes their games would want nintendo to fail. Like...why?

Even stranger is this desire to imagine a future where Nintendo becomes a third party. Like, today. Which would mean Nintendo would start out their third party career with more assets than Activision. Making them the biggest third party immediately. And the most desired and sought after, as MS and Sony stumble over themselves to moneyhat exclusive Nintendo games, at outrageous offers. Thus making the "problem" of competing against Nintendo franchises even worse.

[lherre]

I guess Wii U being underpowered, or to say it better, other consoles being $500+ consoles, won't hurt Wii U really. In a situation that there's no price difference, I guess a lot of current owners will chose the successor of their current system. But if Wii U get's out being cheaper than the others, it won't be that clear. A lot of those who are currently buying cheap 360s and PS3s may also move there, but not if Wii U is not cheap, or only as cheap as other consoles

My question is if the people that "now" have a 360-ps3, with Wii U (theoretically) having the same games will change and buy a new machine to have them ... (only speaking about ports, because clearly, wii U will have a lot of ps3-x360 ports).

[lherre]

V3 is more stable right? An old IGN article I saw indicated Wii had five dev kit versions and it sounds like Wii U is on a similar path. Any indication of when you might get V4? And you might have missed an earlier question I have (or didn't and couldn't answer), but are they currently using some generic looking box for the kit or is it something closer resembling the console? Totally different situation. No one really expected Nintendo to do what they did with Wii. Most have an idea of what they are doing with Wii U.

The kits remember a bit the final design (small, same inputs-outputs, well more or less) but more "ugly" then the retail version shown.

[blu]

My question is if the people that "now" have a 360-ps3, with Wii U (theoretically) having the same games will change and buy a new machine to have them ... (only speaking about ports, because clearly, wii U will have a lot of ps3-x360 ports).

I doubt many people will buy WiiU for the ports, whether they'd be ps360 upports or ps4loop downports.

[MDX]

Why do people keep saying the Wii was underpowered?
It was a normal step up from the last generation.
What do you expect for a $250 console? It was designed to last
five years.

Its Sony and MS that decided to break the trend and
sell overly priced consoles at a loss for a 10 year console cycle.

WiiU could very well be a normal step up from the Wii.
That might look underpowered to some, but it makes good
business sense in the long run.

Now we see that MS and Sony feel threatened by the WiiU.
And have shifted their new consoles for earlier launches than planned.
If rumors are to be believed. Keeping up with Nintendo will cost them.

[lherre]

Why do people keep saying the Wii was underpowered? It was a normal step up from the last generation. What do you expect for a $250 console? It was designed to last five years. Its Sony and MS that decided to break the trend and sell overly priced consoles at a loss for a 10 year console cycle. WiiU could very well be a normal step up from the Wii. That might look underpowered to some, but it makes good business sense in the long run. Now we see that MS and Sony feel threatened by the WiiU. And have shifted their new consoles for earlier launches than planned. If rumors are to be believed. Keeping up with Nintendo will cost them.

X360 cost 299 at launch (Dec 2005, before Wii was launched) ... add a memory card (30 $) and you have it ... 329$ instead 250$ several months before. A machine with considerable power inside and a big gap over xbox (its predecessor), not only a 2x better machine over its predecessor (wii = 2 gc performance)

Besides, I repeat, ps4 and xbox next-loop or whatever name it will have, won't have the tech costs that its predecessors had in some of the components (blu-ray, cell and first graphic card with unified shader-vertex tech). This cost to sony a lot of money for example, now a blu-ray drive is very cheap, graphic cards several times better than xenos are cheap, Sony won't made a new ultra rare cpu like cell, etc. You can see Vita as an example of this new way, a powerful machine but with a "good" price and known tech inside.

Obviously is my personal opinion.

[bgassassin]

The kits remember a bit the final design (small, same inputs-outputs, well more or less) but more "ugly" then the retail version shown.

Based on that I'd almost say it was certain they are waiting for a process shrink.

X360 cost 299 at launch (Dec 2005, before Wii was launched) ... add a memory card (30 $) and you have it ... 329$ instead 250$ several months before. A machine with considerable power inside and a big gap over xbox (its predecessor), not only a 2x better machine over its predecessor (wii = 2 gc performance) Besides, I repeat, ps4 and xbox next-loop or whatever name it will have, won't have the tech costs that its predecessors had in some of the components (blu-ray, cell and first graphic card with unified shader-vertex tech). This cost to sony a lot of money for example, now a blu-ray drive is very cheap, graphic cards several times better than xenos are cheap, Sony won't made a new ultra rare cpu like cell, etc. You can see Vita as an example of this new way, a powerful machine but with a "good" price and known tech inside. Obviously is my personal opinion.

I believe his point is that it still cost MS $100+ more to build that box (in the beginning at least). If Sony didn't have Blu-ray, it's losses still would have been comparable to MS' losses. I can definitely see Sony copying what they did with Vita. I'm just of the view that the gap some people are expecting won't happen due to certain limits.

[richman555]

I think the 360 cost $299 for the 'core' version without a hard drive and a wired controller.

[Cosmozone]

Why do people keep saying the Wii was underpowered?

I like my Wii, but still I think it should've been more powerful and should've come with a similar architecture than current consoles to help third party support. In my opinion Wii would've benefited greatly without HD resolution sucking away most of the power.

What, if I own an original Gamecube? Yes, Platinum Wind Waker bundle, why?

[Donnie]

My question is if the people that "now" have a 360-ps3, with Wii U (theoretically) having the same games will change and buy a new machine to have them ... (only speaking about ports, because clearly, wii U will have a lot of ps3-x360 ports).

If WiiU only had the same games then no it probably wouldn't sell that well, however it'll have the same games AND Nintendo games :) This gen I've owned a Wii and XBox 360, the Wii for Nintendo games and the 360 for most third party games. Next gen if WiiU gets all the same third party games I won't need to own anything but a WiiU.

[agrajag]

Why do people keep saying the Wii was underpowered? It was a normal step up from the last generation. What do you expect for a $250 console? It was designed to last five years. Its Sony and MS that decided to break the trend and sell overly priced consoles at a loss for a 10 year console cycle.

Are you insane? Wii was barely more than a repackaged, overclocked Gamecube. I didn't think even the most ardent fanboy would claim something so absurd as Wii being a generational leap from Gamecube. smh

[Donnie]

Why do people keep saying the Wii was underpowered? It was a normal step up from the last generation. What do you expect for a $250 console? It was designed to last five years. Its Sony and MS that decided to break the trend and sell overly priced consoles at a loss for a 10 year console cycle. WiiU could very well be a normal step up from the Wii. That might look underpowered to some, but it makes good business sense in the long run. Now we see that MS and Sony feel threatened by the WiiU. And have shifted their new consoles for earlier launches than planned. If rumors are to be believed. Keeping up with Nintendo will cost them.

I'd say somewhere in between Wii and XBox 360 would have been a normal generational leap, neither is representative of the norm IMO.

[bgassassin]

I'd say somewhere in between Wii and XBox 360 would have been a normal generational leap, neither is representative of the norm IMO.

I agree. I've said before when dealing with people applying Moore's Law to consoles that IMO PS360 went beyond that and this coming gen would be a "correction" so to speak.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Even stranger is this desire to imagine a future where Nintendo becomes a third party. Like, today. Which would mean Nintendo would start out their third party career with more assets than Activision. Making them the biggest third party immediately. And the most desired and sought after, as MS and Sony stumble over themselves to moneyhat exclusive Nintendo games, at outrageous offers. Thus making the "problem" of competing against Nintendo franchises even worse.

I think it would be quite hilarious to see all the 3rd parties panic when they can't escape Nintendo since they have become unavoidable by being on every platform under the sun.

Of course that will never happen, but it would still be funny (in its own way) to see happen.

[BurntPork]

LOL. Denial was funny with the Wii. Now its just..

LOL! Luckyman can't finish sentences!

[Deguello]

I agree. I've said before when dealing with people applying Moore's Law to consoles that IMO PS360 went beyond that and this coming gen would be a "correction" so to speak.

I think what's unfortunate is that what was popularly conceived as a "generational leap" from last gen to this gen essentially required Sony to gut themselves and MS to lose money as well, which means this conception is entirely unsustainable and dangerous to the industry as a whole.

[BurntPork]

Why do people keep saying the Wii was underpowered? It was a normal step up from the last generation.

........................................................................... ............

No comment.

You know what? Ignore list. That was just so stupid and fanboyish that I can never take you seriously again.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I think what's unfortunate is that what was popularly conceived as a "generational leap" from last gen to this gen essentially required Sony to gut themselves and MS to lose money as well, which means this conception is entirely unsustainable and dangerous to the industry as a whole.

Exactly.

Sony lost all of its PS2 money and a nice chunk of its PS1 money too. I think it's safe to say that they over reached this generation. Even if they weren't trying to trojan horse Bluray into as many homes as possible they still would be in a financial blackhole this gen (attempting to stealth cell network us was very expensive too)

MS has lost how many Billions on the 360 alone?
Not many companies can afford to just buy their way into the console market, but the ends have to justify the means, but I'm sure share holders would appreciate it if those means were somewhere approaching profitable this time around. Windows can't cover all your losses forever.

........................................................................... ............ No comment. You know what? Ignore list. That was just so stupid and fanboyish that I can never take you seriously again.

I seriously hope you're joking here.

[11redder]

I just watched the ubisoft roundtable again after it was posted a few pages back and noticed something that had escaped my attention previously - namely the suspiciously blue x button on the onscreen prompt.

I don't know whether this is in any way indicative of the hardware that this extremely early build of the game was developed on. But, if so, it would be another slap in the face for all those pointing and laughing at the Wii U's supposedly sub-PS360 graphics during the reveal.

If this has been mentioned before - please ignore and carry on...

[Übermatik]

I just watched the ubisoft roundtable again after it was posted a few pages back and noticed something that had escaped my attention previously - namely the suspiciously blue x button on the onscreen prompt. I don't know whether this is in any way indicative of the hardware that this extremely early build of the game was developed on. But, if so, it would be another slap in the face for all those pointing and laughing at the Wii U's supposedly sub-PS360 graphics during the reveal. If this has been mentioned before - please ignore and carry on... [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/KJeTV.png[IMG]

You know what, I never noticed that... what does this mean, GAF?

[bgassassin]

I think what's unfortunate is that what was popularly conceived as a "generational leap" from last gen to this gen essentially required Sony to gut themselves and MS to lose money as well, which means this conception is entirely unsustainable and dangerous to the industry as a whole.

I believe that as well. Another "overpowered" generation that is drawn out would cause at least cause the near death of the console market IMO.

I just watched the ubisoft roundtable again after it was posted a few pages back and noticed something that had escaped my attention previously - namely the suspiciously blue x button on the onscreen prompt. I don't know whether this is in any way indicative of the hardware that this extremely early build of the game was developed on. But, if so, it would be another slap in the face for all those pointing and laughing at the Wii U's supposedly sub-PS360 graphics during the reveal. If this has been mentioned before - please ignore and carry on...

Good eye. Shiggy said not too long ago in the Killer Freaks thread that he found out KF was originally planned for PS360. That's more confirmation of what he was told.

[AzaK]

I just watched the ubisoft roundtable again after it was posted a few pages back and noticed something that had escaped my attention previously - namely the suspiciously blue x button on the onscreen prompt. I don't know whether this is in any way indicative of the hardware that this extremely early build of the game was developed on. But, if so, it would be another slap in the face for all those pointing and laughing at the Wii U's supposedly sub-PS360 graphics during the reveal. If this has been mentioned before - please ignore and carry on...

I assume you mean it could be PS3? That's likely because Killer Freaks, which is what this is IIRC was a PS3/XBox title originally.

[Deguello]

Is this screenshot Killer Freaks? I could drop Spinal Tap jokes here about how black it is.