[Keikaku]

Keep in mind that the youtube video is pretty dated. The jist is pretty much the same but know that there are variations of the 3 rax build. For example, you don't have to immediately plant an addon to a rax as soon as the rax finish. In fact, I'm not a fan of it but to each his own. Definitely use this build order to help work out your mechanics. The practice you should be getting out of this is being able to constantly produce scvs and attack units without having to queue so many. Just be aware that building addons means more time spent not making attack units. Play around with what feels comfortable to you. You can definitely surpass 50 supply at the 7 minute mark.

I can but whether or not you want to is situational. If you do, you're either going for more rax or skimping on addons or both, which basically means more marines (which you might not want) or you're doing an all-in.

That said, yeah, you can definitely have more than 50 supply at 7 mins.

[Pollux]

zmoney you could also ask Tashi on here what he's been doing to learn the game. I believe he's still in Bronze. There is a lot to learn, and I mean A LOT. There's enough here to cover several college courses worth of in depth studying lol. :P Some things that got me to Gold league from Bronze when I was playing: 1) I switched to Grid layout for my keys. (This helped me play other races with ease and made it so I never had to look down at my keyboard or use my mouse to click what I wanted to build/create) 2) Do the tutorial, then try to complete the campaign on normal, and follow that up by getting a Gold rank or whatever on all of the trials in the game. Each trial covers various things throughout the game to get better at. 3) Start to play games against the A.I at various difficulties to see different things I can improve on. Am I getting supply blocked a lot? Am I always making workers? Am I scouting? What is my opponent trying to do? 4) Learn one general safe build for the race you play, that let's you expand and take bases. 5) Watch a LOT of online videos. Day9 dailies, replays of top level players, and youtube tutorials for builds. 6) Save replays, and share with GAF. Play with GAF. Always ask questions. 7) And maybe the most important---PLAY PLAY PLAY. You need to invest serious hours to start seeing improvement. If you get frustrated, take a break, come back to it. The game is a blast, and the best times with it are as you start seeing your improvements and are going up through the ladder. It's a long road, but it will be filled with a lot of fun when you see a game where you are on fire and everything you do is so good to stop your opponent. No game is as rewarding as SC2's multiplayer. :)

Will do, thanks! Taking a break for the night, need to get studying done since finals are next week. Probably won't be playing much for the next couple weeks, just a bit here and there. Once Christmas break rolls around though I'll have much more time to invest in the game.

[Zen]

So I just got done listening to all of the Incontrol/CombatEX/Catz skype call, and I have to say, Incontrol is a massive asshole.

[Pollux]

So I just got completely obliterated, but I was told to put replays on GAF so that people can tell me how I'm failing and what to do better. How do I do that?

[nilbog21]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7gexkwY0Cg bwaajhaha

[Keikaku]

So I just got completely obliterated, but I was told to put replays on GAF so that people can tell me how I'm failing and what to do better. How do I do that?

You can open your replay folder from inside Starcraft. Copy the replays over to the desktop, zip it up and upload it to Mediafire.

[Q8D3vil]

i'm horrible at this game now :/

[Holden]

december was supposed to be the invitational based on the previous tourneys results, you wouldn't have qualified. :P edit: the end of year invitational based on results would have been: pandaman moemoland paz slavik chanstaa jason striek wedge7

im sure i could replace atleast one of the players who dont even play sc2 anymore. jason qualifier (:lol) I wasn't invited in the previous tournaments when zerg wasn't imba

[Corran Horn]

im sure i could replace atleast one of the players who dont even play sc2 anymore. jason qualifier (:lol) I wasn't invited in the previous tournaments when zerg wasn't imba

I deserve to be in it! I think my only victory in our tournaments was a walkover




Also if people want to real id friend add me codyj@pacbell.net

[Pollux]

You can open your replay folder from inside Starcraft. Copy the replays over to the desktop, zip it up and upload it to Mediafire.

K thanks, although looking at it my main issue was just not making enough SVCs. I've tried reading some of the stuff on team liquid and it just confuses me. So i'm just trying to feel my way through it and read that when I get really screwed. And just skim casually and when I understand something I'll try and implement it into my gameplay. I mean the hot key tip alone has made me much more efficient over all.

My big issue is that I still have no idea what units to produce. I've been doing the three barracks build thing since I read about it and watched that youtube video on the previous page. I'm getting close to the 50 by 7:00 mark, usually around 42-45. But that's on medium against the computer. Whenever I try to do that against an actual person I get destroyed. Should I be sending around 4-5 marines or something to the opposing base just to harass him every few minutes? I feel if I do that then they just die needlessly and that makes it even harder for me to build up my forces.

Also, once you get a group together do you just attack en masse or is there some kind of strategy as to who you send in first and how do I keep all my units in a big group, whenever I send them somewhere the flying units and the hellions just zip on over there and get killed before anything else can show up.

Are battlecruiser's and thors even worth building considering the supplies it takes to build them?

Around what point (how many units should I construct) before I start building a second base and spawning SVC's from that thing. When I do that should I build up barracks and supply depots around that as well?

Whoever said that you could teach a college class on this was right there's just so much shit to learn I can hardly wrap my head around it.

I'm not too stressed since it's my first week, but damn.

i'm horrible at this game now :/

Same

[(._.)]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7gexkwY0Cg bwaajhaha

isn't this the guy who makes idra want to kill himself

[Keikaku]

K thanks, although looking at it my main issue was just not making enough SVCs. I've tried reading some of the stuff on team liquid and it just confuses me. So i'm just trying to feel my way through it and read that when I get really screwed. And just skim casually and when I understand something I'll try and implement it into my gameplay. I mean the hot key tip alone has made me much more efficient over all. My big issue is that I still have no idea what units to produce. I've been doing the three barracks build thing since I read about it and watched that youtube video on the previous page. I'm getting close to the 50 by 7:00 mark, usually around 42-45. But that's on medium against the computer. Whenever I try to do that against an actual person I get destroyed. Should I be sending around 4-5 marines or something to the opposing base just to harass him every few minutes? I feel if I do that then they just die needlessly and that makes it even harder for me to build up my forces. Also, once you get a group together do you just attack en masse or is there some kind of strategy as to who you send in first and how do I keep all my units in a big group, whenever I send them somewhere the flying units and the hellions just zip on over there and get killed before anything else can show up. Are battlecruiser's and thors even worth building considering the supplies it takes to build them? Around what point (how many units should I construct) before I start building a second base and spawning SVC's from that thing. When I do that should I build up barracks and supply depots around that as well? Whoever said that you could teach a college class on this was right there's just so much shit to learn I can hardly wrap my head around it. I'm not too stressed since it's my first week, but damn.

Here are some answers to your questions.

If you need help, get on Mumble and get in the in-game NeoGAF chat channel. You can get on the chat channel by hitting the little chat icon in the bottom right and typing in 'NeoGAF' to join a specific channel. I'll help you out.

If you're doing the 3-rax build, never, ever send small groups of marines over to harass the enemy. The point of the build is that you build up a large army with 2 key upgrades (stim and concussive shells) and hit at a time (7:00-7:30) where they don't expect to be attacked. If you send small groups of units to the enemies base you're not harassing him, you're just donating kills to him and making yourself weaker.

Are you making sure to attack with stim and concussive shells? If you do this, you should easily crush your opponent.

If you're getting Hellions and Banshees (the flying units with the propellers on the side), you want to keep them on a separate control group. Use the Hellions to scout for your main army. Once you find out what they enemy has or where they are, turn around and join up with the rest of your army or wait for it to get there before attacking. Having separate control groups will help with this.

I generally keep my Command Center on hotkey '4', my Barracks on '5', Factories on '6', etc., etc. This leaves '1', '2', and '3' open for my army and army control.

Battlecruisers and Thors are great for mid-late game against certain enemy army compositions and in certain situations, but they're not worth it for you since you're not good enough to understand when and where to use them yet. Sorry if that sounds harsh but it's true. Heck, I got to Platinum with Terran and I still don't use them because I would fuck it up.

Your second base timing depends on how long the game has been played, what build you played against what build the opponent played, who has the better army, position, etc. It depends a lot on a bunch of different factors. For example, if you do the 3-rax, march your army over to the enemy base, scan and see that you can't do any damage, you should immediately turn around and expand. Save your army, don't attack needlessly. Supply depot placement and barracks to wall off around it is more useful against Zerg, less so against Protoss and more of a liability against Terran.

Hope all this helped.

EDIT: I'm going to be really busy tomorrow, but I can help you on Friday. You may be able to find someone else from GAF to help you too. Also, don't try building Hellions and flying units just yet. Do the 3-rax until you can do it really, really well. Just that one build, nothing else.

[Pollux]

[QUOTE=Keikaku;33094813]Here are some answers to your questions.

If you need help, get on Mumble and get in the in-game NeoGAF chat channel. You can get on the chat channel by hitting the little chat icon in the bottom right and typing in 'NeoGAF' to join a specific channel. I'll help you out.

OK, I'll have to download that and then get some kind of mic. This is probably a dumb question but would a headset that works on the XBOX work for this for of thing?

If you're doing the 3-rax build, never, ever send small groups of marines over to harass the enemy. The point of the build is that you build up a large army with 2 key upgrades (stim and concussive shells) and hit at a time (7:00-7:30) where they don't expect to be attacked. If you send small groups of units to the enemies base you're not harassing him, you're just donating kills to him and making yourself weaker.

Ok. And when doing the 3-rax build focus, at least early on, on JUST marines and marauders? Then once I get a decent force throw in a couple hellions?

Are you making sure to attack with stim and concussive shells? If you do this, you should easily crush your opponent.

No, I hadn't done any of that. When I get those upgrades are they automatically applied to all unit that can use them, and do the units use them on their own...or do I have to click each unit to use that ability? Probably a dumb question

If you're getting Hellions and Banshees (the flying units with the propellers on the side), you want to keep them on a separate control group. Use the Hellions to scout for your main army. Once you find out what they enemy has or where they are, turn around and join up with the rest of your army or wait for it to get there before attacking. Having separate control groups will help with this.

Ok. But for right now you would probably suggest just using the marines and marauders until I can get the whole macro thing down without really screwing up like I am right now?

I generally keep my Command Center on hotkey '4', my Barracks on '5', Factories on '6', etc., etc. This leaves '1', '2', and '3' open for my army and army control.

I've been doing the same thing but having just 1 for the army. I'll move everything over and that will definitely make dealing with foot soldiers and vehicles/flying units much simpler

Battlecruisers and Thors are great for mid-late game against certain enemy army compositions and in certain situations, but they're not worth it for you since you're not good enough to understand when and where to use them yet. Sorry if that sounds harsh but it's true. Heck, I got to Platinum with Terran and I still don't use them because I would fuck it up.

No worries.

Your second base timing depends on how long the game has been played, what build you played against what build the opponent played, who has the better army, position, etc. It depends a lot on a bunch of different factors. For example, if you do the 3-rax, march your army over to the enemy base, scan and see that you can't do any damage, you should immediately turn around and expand. Save your army, don't attack needlessly. Supply depot placement and barracks to wall off around it is more useful against Zerg, less so against Protoss and more of a liability against Terran. Hope all this helped.

Helped a lot actually. I've been doing the 3-rax build and just throwing my units against the other guy and hoping for the best. I'm just not thinking through everything and then I'm trying to manage what my SVC's build and when they're produced and what's building what, etc.

Yea, this has helped quite a bit actually. thanks

EDIT: I'm going to be really busy tomorrow, but I can help you on Friday. You may be able to find someone else from GAF to help you too. Also, don't try building Hellions and flying units just yet. Do the 3-rax until you can do it really, really well. Just that one build, nothing else.

I probably won't be on a lot until mid-late december because of finals but after that I'll be on quite a bit trying to figure this game out.

Thanks again, once again glad to have GAF as a resource lol

[Keikaku]

OK, I'll have to download that and then get some kind of mic. This is probably a dumb question but would a headset that works on the XBOX work for this for of thing?

I believe it does. Just try it out :)

Ok. And when doing the 3-rax build focus, at least early on, on JUST marines and marauders? Then once I get a decent force throw in a couple hellions?

If you get Hellions, your push will be much, much weaker than just doing the straight 3-rax. Think about this way. If the regular 3-rax hits at 7:30 and requires you to spend all your money on the required units and upgrades to support it, the Hellions will delay your push by, at minimum, 2 minutes 20 seconds. Here is why:
- You will need to build a Factory: 60 seconds of build time for the structure, around 20 seconds to get the required gas to build the Factory (100 vespene)
- You will need to build Hellions: 30 seconds per Hellion. 50 seconds for a reactor, if you choose to get one to build 2 hellions at a time and then 30 seconds to build 2 Hellions.

In those extra 2 minutes you could comfortably march across the map and just fucking kill your opponent. If you wait, you will lose. Or, at least, you should lose.

No, I hadn't done any of that. When I get those upgrades are they automatically applied to all unit that can use them, and do the units use them on their own...or do I have to click each unit to use that ability? Probably a dumb question

The 3-rax is absolutely dependent on the stim and concussive shell upgrades. If you don't have them, there is no point to using this build. The upgrades are automatically applied to all units that can use them. Maradaurs automatically use Concussive Shells (it's a passive ability) whereas both Marines and Maradaurs have to be stimmed manually. The default key is 'T' and you can just hit it with all of the units selected. Those that can use it, will. I don't know if that applies for the Grid layout, since I don't use it.

Ok. But for right now you would probably suggest just using the marines and marauders until I can get the whole macro thing down without really screwing up like I am right now?

Yep.

I've been doing the same thing but having just 1 for the army. I'll move everything over and that will definitely make dealing with foot soldiers and vehicles/flying units much simpler

Yeah. I would suggest having your Marines and Maradaurs on '1', Tanks (when you get good enough to use them) on '2' and Vikings on '3'

Helped a lot actually. I've been doing the 3-rax build and just throwing my units against the other guy and hoping for the best. I'm just not thinking through everything and then I'm trying to manage what my SVC's build and when they're produced and what's building what, etc.

Yeah, it's tough at first. Stick with it. Don't try to add additions to the basic 3-rax like the Hellions you were talking about. This is a build that is optimized to hit at a certain time with certain upgrades and a certain mix of units. If you miss your timing, you will lose and probably lose badly. Also, pretty much no-one on GAF is good enough to create wrinkles to established builds, no matter what they say. Even Panda. Especially Panda :p

I probably won't be on a lot until mid-late december because of finals but after that I'll be on quite a bit trying to figure this game out. Thanks again, once again glad to have GAF as a resource lol

I have finals too, so that would help me too. Good luck on yours.

EDIT: I just wanted to give you props for your good advice to the OP in this thread. Dude is likely heading for another burning though >.>

[Tashi]

I'm still a rookie Terran player who just got this game right before MLG Orlando. Here's my advice as someone who has seen improvement but still sucks ass at the game. The way I see it, your build in SC2, is like doing a hot lap on a race track. In SC2, if your goal is to have a certain amount of units and buildings at a certain time in the match, you have to do everything right to reach that goal. If you slip up, the mistake blows up exponentially. Same goes for racing on a track. If you slip up just a little, miss a shift, come into a turn too fast or slow, it's going to have a big effect on the result.

It's like a butterfly effect in SC2. Let's say early on you build you're building SCV's, throw down a supply depot, a barracks and everything is going smoothly. You build your Refinery to get gas, build another supply depot, get command center and more barracks, wonderful! But wait a sec, oh shit. I forgot to add 2 more workers to mine for gas. Fuck! Ok ok, not a big deal, I was a little late. Guess what? Your tech lab is going to be late. Which means your stim will be late, your reactors will be late, your concussive shells will be late and you're going to get fewer marauders. And then, it's almost 10 minutes into the match, you've got Stim, you've got concussive shells, and like 12 marines and marauders. Awww yea you're ready to push, this is gonna be awesome. Right as your about to push, "Your base is under attack" WTF! Yea, this guy's knocking on your fuckin door with 20 marines and marauders, two sieges tank and a medivac and he just fucked your shit up. GG. Oh and he's definitely taken a 2nd base too.

Build SCV's, build Supply depots. It sounds so degrading when you're told this. Same shit happened to me bro. I was like, "yea yea SCVs and supply depots whatever. Blah blah blah" That shit is so important. You'll see it, you'll have a good game and a bad game and they'll end around the same time and you'll tell just how much better your build was in the good game you had vs the bad game. It's mind blowing. Perfect the build, get used to always building supply depots and SCVs and it will make the rest of the game easier.

After that, you'll get into the problem of, "what the fuck do I buy, I have so many minerals" :lol

[Keikaku]

I'm still a rookie Terran player who just got this game right before MLG Orlando. Here's my advice as someone who has seen improvement but still sucks ass at the game. The way I see it, your build in SC2, is like doing a hot lap on a race track. In SC2, if your goal is to have a certain amount of units and buildings at a certain time in the match, you have to do everything right to reach that goal. If you slip up, the mistake blows up exponentially. Same goes for racing on a track. If you slip up just a little, miss a shift, come into a turn too fast or slow, it's going to have a big effect on the result. It's like a butterfly effect in SC2. Let's say early on you build you're building SCV's, throw down a supply depot, a barracks and everything is going smoothly. You build your Refinery to get gas, build another supply depot, get command center and more barracks, wonderful! But wait a sec, oh shit. I forgot to add 2 more workers to mine for gas. Fuck! Ok ok, not a big deal, I was a little late. Guess what? Your tech lab is going to be late. Which means your stim will be late, your reactors will be late, your concussive shells will be late and you're going to get fewer marauders. And then, it's almost 10 minutes into the match, you've got Stim, you've got concussive shells, and like 12 marines and marauders. Awww yea you're ready to push, this is gonna be awesome. Right as your about to push, "Your base is under attack" WTF! Yea, this guy's knocking on your fuckin door with 20 marines and marauders, two sieges tank and a medivac and he just fucked your shit up. GG. Oh and he's definitely taken a 2nd base too. Build SCV's, build Supply depots. It sounds so degrading when you're told this. Same shit happened to me bro. I was like, "yea yea SCVs and supply depots whatever. Blah blah blah" That shit is so important. You'll see it, you'll have a good game and a bad game and they'll end around the same time and you'll tell just how much better your build was in the good game you had vs the bad game. It's mind blowing. Perfect the build, get used to always building supply depots and SCVs and it will make the rest of the game easier. After that, you'll get into the problem of, "what the fuck do I buy, I have so many minerals" :lol

Yeah you were lol. I remember the tone of your voice on Mumble when I reiterated that to you hahahah

I trained you well :3

[Pollux]

I believe it does. Just try it out :) If you get Hellions, your push will be much, much weaker than just doing the straight 3-rax. Think about this way. If the regular 3-rax hits at 7:30 and requires you to spend all your money on the required units and upgrades to support it, the Hellions will delay your push by, at minimum, 2 minutes 20 seconds. Here is why: - You will need to build a Factory: 60 seconds of build time for the structure, around 20 seconds to get the required gas to build the Factory (100 vespene) - You will need to build Hellions: 30 seconds per Hellion. 50 seconds for a reactor, if you choose to get one to build 2 hellions at a time and then 30 seconds to build 2 Hellions. In those extra 2 minutes you could comfortably march across the map and just fucking kill your opponent. If you wait, you will lose. Or, at least, you should lose. The 3-rax is absolutely dependent on the stim and concussive shell upgrades. If you don't have them, there is no point to using this build. The upgrades are automatically applied to all units that can use them. Maradaurs automatically use Concussive Shells (it's a passive ability) whereas both Marines and Maradaurs have to be stimmed manually. The default key is 'T' and you can just hit it with all of the units selected. Those that can use it, will. I don't know if that applies for the Grid layout, since I don't use it. Yep. Yeah. I would suggest having your Marines and Maradaurs on '1', Tanks (when you get good enough to use them) on '2' and Vikings on '3' Yeah, it's tough at first. Stick with it. Don't try to add additions to the basic 3-rax like the Hellions you were talking about. This is a build that is optimized to hit at a certain time with certain upgrades and a certain mix of units. If you miss your timing, you will lose and probably lose badly. Also, pretty much no-one on GAF is good enough to create wrinkles to established builds, no matter what they say. Even Panda. Especially Panda :p I have finals too, so that would help me too. Good luck on yours. EDIT: I just wanted to give you props for your good advice to the OP in this thread. Dude is likely heading for another burning though >.>

Got it. Thanks man. And good luck on your finals as well. I'm to the point where I just don't care anymore haha. I've been busting my ass for the last 3 months and I'm just burnt out. Plus I'm in my first year of law school and I have no idea how to study for these exams. People tell you how to but you never really know until you've taken the actual tests for yourself and see what you need work on.

As for Moooose, I think he has a decent shot, although I haven't read the first 5 pages of that thread, but he has to take it easy and just remember what he did the first time around. The girl sounds like she just got that typical, I'm in college now and I've missed out on stuff mindset. He's just got to show her that he's better for her than everyone else out there. It can be done, difficult, because like all these builds in SC it requires timing, planning, and some ballsy maneuvering...but it can be done.

I'm still a rookie Terran player who just got this game right before MLG Orlando. Here's my advice as someone who has seen improvement but still sucks ass at the game. The way I see it, your build in SC2, is like doing a hot lap on a race track. In SC2, if your goal is to have a certain amount of units and buildings at a certain time in the match, you have to do everything right to reach that goal. If you slip up, the mistake blows up exponentially. Same goes for racing on a track. If you slip up just a little, miss a shift, come into a turn too fast or slow, it's going to have a big effect on the result. It's like a butterfly effect in SC2. Let's say early on you build you're building SCV's, throw down a supply depot, a barracks and everything is going smoothly. You build your Refinery to get gas, build another supply depot, get command center and more barracks, wonderful! But wait a sec, oh shit. I forgot to add 2 more workers to mine for gas. Fuck! Ok ok, not a big deal, I was a little late. Guess what? Your tech lab is going to be late. Which means your stim will be late, your reactors will be late, your concussive shells will be late and you're going to get fewer marauders. And then, it's almost 10 minutes into the match, you've got Stim, you've got concussive shells, and like 12 marines and marauders. Awww yea you're ready to push, this is gonna be awesome. Right as your about to push, "Your base is under attack" WTF! Yea, this guy's knocking on your fuckin door with 20 marines and marauders, two sieges tank and a medivac and he just fucked your shit up. GG. Oh and he's definitely taken a 2nd base too. Build SCV's, build Supply depots. It sounds so degrading when you're told this. Same shit happened to me bro. I was like, "yea yea SCVs and supply depots whatever. Blah blah blah" That shit is so important. You'll see it, you'll have a good game and a bad game and they'll end around the same time and you'll tell just how much better your build was in the good game you had vs the bad game. It's mind blowing. Perfect the build, get used to always building supply depots and SCVs and it will make the rest of the game easier. After that, you'll get into the problem of, "what the fuck do I buy, I have so many minerals" :lol

Agreed. Considering I'm the new person your probably talking about, but I knew they were important but not THAT important, nor did I realize how important timing is in all of this. I fucking love it. I still suck, but a few days in, I love it. In my mind if I love it when I'm getting my ass kicked, it can only get better once I actually improve lol. Hopefully I improve haha

[Corran Horn]

I believe it does. Just try it out :) Also, pretty much no-one on GAF is good enough to create wrinkles to established builds, no matter what they say. Even Panda. Especially Panda :p

Why you hate my builds bro.

[Tashi]

Yeah you were lol. I remember the tone of your voice on Mumble when I reiterated that to you hahahah I trained you well :3

lol. I do like to mess around though and joke that I'll be in Grand Masters pretty soon. I'm just messing around though No I'm not

You have trained me well, I just need to put more time in.

[Keikaku]

Why you hate my builds bro.

You're right. I'm sorry :(

2-to-3-base Ultra is the new thing in ZvZ. Why just yesterday ColMVPDRG used it against oGsLuvsic on their sec . . . no, wait, he didn't. Actually it was STCurious who used it to crush MVPMonste . . . . no, I tell a lie that didn't happen either. Wait . . . :p

<3

lol. I do like to mess around though and joke that I'll be in Grand Masters pretty soon. I'm just messing around though No I'm not You have trained me well, I just need to put more time in.

If you keep playing consistently and with the right mindset, you will make it to GM. For me, I've been really, really sick for the last 2 months and I'm going to be sick for the next 2-3, so I don't have the time right now. But I do want to make it to GM one day and, eventually, compete in at least one MLG open bracket. I just need the time to play the game >.>

Just a quick post about my mental approach to the game and how I think about my play afterwards, if that helps either you or zmoney:

• I currently suck at this game. I will continue to suck for a long, long time-probably years.
• Win or lose, I screwed up somewhere. I could have won earlier or more efficiently.
• Just focus on one aspect of your game and try to improve that as much as possible. I look over my replays to see when I stop building depots/pylons/overlords. For example, when I was learning Zerg the Overlord that you make at 34 supply was always late for me. I would hit 34/34 or 36/36 before I remembered to make it. I spent a few games just focusing on hitting that Overlord timing. As I improved, my supply block would come later and later.
• Always be making SCVs, probes or drones. Never stop. This has proven to hurt me a little when I play Protoss as some of the builds I'm practicing rely on probe production being stopped and restarted and I usually end up building more probes than I need >.>
• Practice a build to perfection. Play against the AI, use YABOT, use the Fyn AI, use whatever but practice, practice, practice. I practiced the 3-rax build around 50-60 times until I was hitting it as efficiently as possible. I had it down to the point that I never missed a depot, add-on, MULE, etc. Watch for when you're hitting the enemy base and do a count of how many units you have. Try to exceed or match those numbers. Eventually you won't be able to and at that point, look for refinements you can make. Now that I'm playing as Protoss, for example, I have 5 builds that I use on the ladder (1 for PvP, 2 for PvZ and 1 for PvT and the catch-all 4 gate). I use only those builds knowing that if I do them well, I should win all the way to Diamond at the very least, Masters if I execute them perfectly. One of these builds is written out all the way to 110 supply!
• If I lose, it was never down to imbalance. Not once. Until I am high Master's or GM league, I will not even consider balance to be an issue.

There are probably better ways of thinking and other aspects of you game to focus on. For me, right now, this is what I can handle. Adapt as necessary.

[Pandaman]

nestea does use my zvt though. cocoa has also stolen one of my zvp builds too.

raise your hand if you've beaten korean grandmasters in a tournament before!
*raises*

ahhh, its good to be the best.

edit: also i totally vouched for you in helping him. ;_;

[Corran Horn]

nestea does use my zvt though. cocoa has also stolen one of my zvp builds too. raise your hand if you've beaten korean grandmasters in a tournament before! *raises* ahhh, its good to be the best. edit: also i totally vouched for you in helping him. ;_;

Dont worry, Keiakku is forever plat.

[Pandaman]

Dont worry, Keiakku is forever plat.

and i steal pretty much every zvz idea you have, so thats two of us!
holden was perfecting forge play on metal when naniwa was still a nobody!

[Corran Horn]

and i steal pretty much every zvz idea you have, so thats two of us! holden was perfecting forge play on metal when naniwa was still a nobody!

Tyler used my zealot archon build against FXOChoya too!

We 3...gods among men.... (just one smells because he is french)

[Keikaku]

nestea does use my zvt though. cocoa has also stolen one of my zvp builds too. raise your hand if you've beaten korean grandmasters in a tournament before! *raises* ahhh, its good to be the best. edit: also i totally vouched for you in helping him. ;_;

I'm totally joking lol!

That said, sorry, VileDdoRo is pretty much Canadian in much the same way that HuK is Korean :p

Dont worry, Keiakku is forever plat.

After switching through all 3 races and going from Bronze-Plat with all 3, yeah :p

I can and will hit Masters, at the least. It's just a question of when. I really wish I could play this game more.

[Pandaman]

I'm totally joking lol! That said, sorry, VileDdoRo is pretty much Canadian in much the same way that HuK is Korean :p

i wasnt talking about ddoro. :P

[Keikaku]

i wasnt talking about ddoro. :P

Wat? Who else have you beaten? Wait, are you talking about LegalMind? SuzyWerra?! SadZenith?!? I await with bated breath :p

Seriously though, who was it?

[Corran Horn]

Less talking more logging in and not making me be all alone in game ;;

[Keikaku]

Less talking more logging in and not making me be all alone in game ;;

One game!

Maybe 2. Maybe.

[Pandaman]

http://i.imgur.com/59CRr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BtQ1K.jpg

southpaw is PswRG's american account, he was a korean gm in season 3.
the games were played in august though which i think was season 3? -.-

[Keikaku]

http://i.imgur.com/59CRr.jpg http://i.imgur.com/BtQ1K.jpg southpaw is PswRG's american account, he was a korean gm in season 3. the games were played in august though which i think was season 3? -.-

Given the situation, your win against DdoRo was honestly more impressive.

EDIT: Corran! Play me, jerk!

[Pandaman]

Given the situation, your win against DdoRo was honestly more impressive. EDIT: Corran! Play me, jerk!

you mean the time i invented destiny's entire ZvP infestor playstyle 'bout a month before he started doing it and used it against a member of destiny's team? yeah that was pretty awesome. although both destiny and I admit the true inventor of the infestor style was mrbitter.

[Tashi]

http://i.imgur.com/59CRr.jpg http://i.imgur.com/BtQ1K.jpg southpaw is PswRG's american account, he was a korean gm in season 3. the games were played in august though which i think was season 3? -.-

Threw on the old lag switch huh? Real classy bro

[Pandaman]

Threw on the old lag switch huh? Real classy bro

actually he was just too stupid to properly defend a scouted 1rax expand and too stubborn to leave the game when he had 5 scv's left and i was droning behind the attack. :P

[Corran Horn]

Threw on the old lag switch huh? Real classy bro

I was a top UT2k3 player for a reason brah

[ghst]

I will definitely try this out, that sounds exactly like what i've been trying to do. Also it's good to see another protoss player around here.

protoss player with a disdain for kpop and ponies.

hero replay pack!: http://www.teamliquidpro.com/news/20...eplays-14-hero

bring tissues.

[Keikaku]

QXC has been transferred from FXO to Complexity

http://esfiworld.com/sc2/news/fxo-tr...qxc-complexity

[Striek]

Why would complexity want him?

I'm sure a ton of known 'pros' on teams aren't getting paid much if at all, but still organisations need to start trimming the fat a bit. Too many kinda decent or maybe used to be good players.

[HolyCheck]

Why would complexity want him? I'm sure a ton of known 'pros' on teams aren't getting paid much if at all, but still organisations need to start trimming the fat a bit. Too many kinda decent or maybe used to be good players.

teams need more slogs and tguns who are happy to just play 1000 games to help out the A team, and have a crack themselves at getting better

[giri]

For Zmoney, i'm also JUST starting to play SC2. I've been watching GSL games for most of the year though, so i have a basic grounding i guess.

First thing i did was the campaign. Decent enough way to expand you and give you more knowledge of each unit type.

Now i'm playing against the AI on most o the common duel maps. I have the speed set to faster, not fastest, so i can think a bit more, and until i learn a map a bit better.

I must have knocked out about 30 or 40 games against the AI. I still lose the occasional one mainly cause my scouting is terrible.

I plan to keep playing against the AI until i feel a lot more comfortable doing stuff with the keyboard and until i have a basic feel for most maps.

[Hazaro]

Why would complexity want him? I'm sure a ton of known 'pros' on teams aren't getting paid much if at all, but still organisations need to start trimming the fat a bit. Too many kinda decent or maybe used to be good players.

He's a decent Terran, a good thinker, and he makes maps and stuff.

[Q8D3vil]

not surprised for qxc to go to col since fxo want dedicated players (aka koreans) that are ready to practice and commit their time to the game and qxc can't do it because he want to finish college.

[Pandaman]

so eugaf.

you guys get a lot of nonenglish players, right? is it as funny as i imagine when people suddenly start raging out in their native language?

[AdventureRacing]

protoss player with a disdain for kpop and ponies. hero replay pack!: http://www.teamliquidpro.com/news/20...eplays-14-hero bring tissues.

Well that makes 2 of us. I'll be watching that replay pack tomorrow and seeing if i can actually incorporate some of the stuff i learn.

[V_Arnold]

so eugaf. you guys get a lot of nonenglish players, right? is it as funny as i imagine when people suddenly start raging out in their native language?

Well, I am hungarian, but I think that it is a sign of a weak character to rage on a different language than my opponent. What is the point? I have seen spanish, polish, french rage sentences thrown at me though. I just stick to english :P

[Pandaman]

protoss player with a disdain for kpop and ponies.

Well that makes 2 of us.

---

in related news, my zvp has devolved into creeping creep and building spine crawlers until protoss gets seige units or fucks off to go do something else. >_>

[AdventureRacing]

Sounds like a fun style, i do enjoy making good use of spine crawlers. I've always wanted to find a way to use them offensively in some way (i don't really mean like the Nestea spine crawler rush).

[Pollux]

Given the situation, your win against DdoRo was honestly more impressive. EDIT: Corran! Play me, jerk!

You guys ever play that game? and am I the only one that was up all night? screw that.

Not that it really adds anything to the discussion but....holy crap I love this game. I've never had so much fun playing a game I'm this bad at lol. I really like that it's early enough that I can actually try different races and builds (granted the only build I've actually learned is the terran 3-rax build) and even then I still only win one our of three against the AI on hard.

Speaking of the AI, when I'm practicing with a build I've worked on, what level should I set it at?

Any advise on a very basic zerg build, something equivalent to the terran 3-rax in terms of "simplicity", so to speak?

If anyone was willing to explain BASIC, and I mean the equivalent of 10 year old basic, zerg strategy that would be awesome. As Keikaku said earlier, with my terran build, I just bulk up and then go out in one big push, if I can overwhelm them I take them on, if not fall back. But what's the basic zerg build/strategy for new people?

EDIT: Also, sorry for all the dumb questions....I feel like I should be able to figure this sort of thing out on my own, but that's not working out too well.

[Pandaman]

the basic of basic zerg builds is:
9 overlord
14 gas
14 pool
15 overlord
15 queen
15 ling speed

the number in front is the amount of drones you should have before building it

you basically get extremely quick map control and a potent attack force, the build branches into roach and bane aggression, a quick expansion or just straight up mass ling shenanigans.

for newer players i recommend the roach or mass ling varients.
the ling one is easy, after you start ling speed stop mining gas and just build lings and overlords until the speed upgrade finishes, then go kill the other guy.
the roach build has you mine 175 extra gas after you get speed. once your pool is done start your roach warren and two overlords, do not build lings or drones. when your warren is finished build 7 roaches with your 3 saved larvae + inject, attack and reinforce with zerglings.

getting used to the mass ling build will atually be very important for your ZvZ's in the future while the roach build will get weaker and weaker the higher you climb the ladder.

[AdventureRacing]

Unless you want to move up the ladder quickly then you just build your pool at 6 :P.

When i read people talk about zerg strategies it really makes me want to go back but i think i want to try and improve on my toss play first. It's really hard to choose what to play when you really like both races.

Edit: It's funny reading all your edits as they keep getting more complex lol. Also i definitely agree about going lings, it's a much more enjoyable style.