[DMeisterJ]

No.

[inthezone]

Yes.

[SecretMoblin]

[royalan]

I see you girls are trying to make 4 happen again...



I just can't change my opinion on that album. In fact, "4" is one of the few albums I've listened to where my opinion of it didn't warp or evolve over time. My opinion? A technically competent but erratic mess.

Vocally, "4" serves as a wonderful showcase for Beyonce's maturity and technical ability. In fact, "4" is the album that convinced me that Beyonce had risen to Christina's level, not just in range, but in technical ability as well.

However, she overdoes it a lot on the album. In fact, whenever I say in this thread (and the DJ room) that Beyonce oversings way more than people bash Christina for, I'm specifically thinking about "4".

The biggest culprit: Countdown - which has to be the most schizophrenic song I've ever heard. From the beginning when she starts out with some sort of faux-Rihanna patois, then the rapping in the bridge, to the scales she's running up and down throughout the entire song. It's just a vocal scattershot, and I challenge anyone to find an Xtina song (or any other song by a Pop/R&B artist) that is so manic. And it's not just the vocals, but the lyrics, as well. She goes from proudly proclaiming love for her man, to borderline threatening her man, to repping her city. No wonder the song flopped: listeners probably didn't know how to take it.

But she does sound great on a lot of the songs, which is why I think a lot of her stans hold it up as her best work. But lyrically and production-wise, she's been to much more interesting places, in my opinion.

[inthezone]

I did grow to like 4 but I dont think it's that amazing tbh.

My fave Bey album is the "I am..." side of Sasha Fierce. It's lovely.

[botty]

There's a plug room that keeps playing Kelly Clarkson and Cher songs.

#confused

[Koodo]

Is it the one titled DO NOT ENTER?

[DMeisterJ]

There's a plug room that keeps playing Kelly Clarkson and Cher songs. #confused

That sounds dreadful.

Good thing ours has better taste

[Mumei]

However, she overdoes it a lot on the album. In fact, whenever I say in this thread (and the DJ room) that Beyonce oversings way more than people bash Christina for, I'm specifically thinking about "4".

I think you and I have different ideas about "overdoing it."

I don't think that is an example of overdoing it. Those runs at the end of I Care, aside from being the only interesting part of the song, are also really, really well done. They might be indulgent, but this is pop music; indulgent is practically the name of the game.

When I think oversinging, I think of runs that make no sense with the song (mind you, this is from a lay perspective) appear to just be thrown in haphazardly. I think of going for things that are beyond your ability to produce well. Beyonce has done the former before - and maybe the latter as well, though I can't think of it offhand - but I don't think anywhere near as often or as consistently through her career.

But I will say that I was listening to her Grammy Performance with Jennifer Hudson a few weeks ago, and it's honestly shocking how small her voice sounds when it isn't being amped up so much with reverb. And Leona and I were listening to a collection of C5 - E5 notes earlier today that included various singers - Whitney, Lara, Mariah, Shirley, Streisand, Chaka, Celine, Beyonce, etc. - and the one thing that was really, really noticeable was how tinny and unimpressive it sounds by comparison. Granted, I knew that her technical ability was much better than, say, the size of her voice but hearing it like that put it in better perspective.

[royalan]

When I think oversinging, I think of runs that make no sense with the song (mind you, this is from a lay perspective) appear to just be thrown in haphazardly.

Example 1

Example 2

Heck, just count all of Countdown as one big example.

I do agree that some level of indulgence is expected (I mean, look at who my fave is). But there's a line between indulgence and "Hey! LISTEN! LISTEN TO WHAT I CAN DO!" And I think Beyonce crosses that line on 4 more than any other album.

[Marius_]

The MuchMusic Video Awards are tonight. Performers: Kelly Clarkson, Carly Rae Jepsen, LMFAO, Flo Rida, Justin Bieber, Ed Sheeran, Katy Perry, Nelly Furtardo, Mariana's Trench (Marius_, you got some explaining to do), Hedley

noooo, not me thinking you where referring to Demi like that

[Mumei]

I do agree that some level of indulgence is expected (I mean, look at who my fave is). But there's a line between indulgence and "Hey! LISTEN! LISTEN TO WHAT I CAN DO!" And I think Beyonce crosses that line on 4 more than any other album.

I like "Hey! LISTEN! LISTEN TO WHAT I CAN DO!" - if they back it up. And Beyonce usually does. Yeah, what you linked to was indulgent. But it was good. There isn't really anything in there that compares to Christina's straining or hoo-hahing or general randomness. I mean, these things you criticize Beyonce for, Christina does them far more often and far more egregiously. She does "Hey! LISTEN! LISTEN TO WHAT I CAN DO!", but doesn't really back it up as well.

[royalan]

I like "Hey! LISTEN! LISTEN TO WHAT I CAN DO!" - if they back it up. And Beyonce usually does. Yeah, what you linked to was indulgent. But it was good. There isn't really anything in there that compares to Christina's straining or hoo-hahing or general randomness. I mean, these things you criticize Beyonce for, Christina does them far more often and far more egregiously. She does "Hey! LISTEN! LISTEN TO WHAT I CAN DO!", but doesn't really back it up as well.

iwannaseethereceipts.gif

I won't deny my fave's tendency to indulge and occasionally oversing. But rarely does she do the Beyonce thing: i.e. fill her songs to the brim with vocal exercises you learn in your first year of lessons.

Christina tends to prefer grittier runs, yes, but that's because she's a more "Soulful" singer than Beyonce is - and ultimately I prefer her style since her runs fit the tone and theme of her music more often than not. Whereas with Beyonce, I'm often left wondering exactly why she's running up and down the chromatic scale at any given time.

[Mumei]

iwannaseethereceipts.gif

Save yourself a copy. ;)

I won't deny my fave's tendency to indulge and occasionally oversing. But rarely does she do the Beyonce thing: i.e. fill her songs to the brim with vocal exercises you learn in your first year of lessons.

Exactly what is different between what Beyonce does and what Mariah does, beyond the fact that Mariah is even better at incorporating her melisma and runs into more complex melodies?

I'm asking honestly; I don't know.

Christina tends to prefer grittier runs, yes, but that's because she's a more "Soulful" singer than Beyonce is - and ultimately I prefer her style since her runs fit the tone and theme of her music more often than not. Whereas with Beyonce, I'm often left wondering exactly why she's running up and down the chromatic scale at any given time.

I should probably clarify that I am talking about Christina's live singing, and not her studio singing when I say this:

I don't see how Christina's runs fit her music at all. They sound out of place in the song. They sound as if she has suddenly decided that she wants to do "something" and hasn't planned it out or doesn't have the musicality to improvise and have it make sense. And it isn't that they sound gritty; they sound strained. To me, Haley sounds gritty. She doesn't sound strained. Mariah on AYNAF:C&C sounds gritty. She doesn't sound strained. But Christina often sounds strained.

Now this might just be a misperception of her based on performances that aren't as recent. Or maybe they are soulful and you can show me examples of other soul singers doing similar things in their songs? Or maybe while her belting is still painful, I am suffering under the same delusion I once was with regards to Beyonce (e.g. that she lacks taste and discretion when it comes to runs and melisma; she's clearly had a marked improvement over the years). Maybe Christina's gotten better at reigning herself in and not just sort of going random all over the place with her runs. I cannot really say for sure.

So do you have examples that show this sort of improvement where she is doing runs, but they are sensible?

And not that damnable Porgy and Bess performance please. It isn't a patch on my favorites. Leontyne owns that role and Whitney was amazing on I Loves You Porgy

[Sai-kun]

LOL best

[Phonomezer]

LOL

[Crumpet Trumpet]

noooo, not me thinking you where referring to Demi like that

I spit out my drank when I saw there was a band called Mariana's Trench

[royalan]

Exactly what is different between what Beyonce does and what Mariah does, beyond the fact that Mariah is even better at incorporating her melisma and runs into more complex melodies? I'm asking honestly; I don't know.

Well that's the whole kit and caboodle right there. Can't really brush that aside. Mariah's runs typically require more skill and fit into more complex melodies. There's also a more improvisational aspect to them, and on that level I'd say that Mariah has much more in common with how Christina does runs than Beyonce. Mariah's cleaner and more refined, yes, but both she and Christina have a soulful, gospel quality to the way they approach runs - extreme dynamics and shift in volume and note duration (I'm pretty sure there's a more proper, one-word term in italian for what I just described, but whatever). As opposed to Beyonce, whose runs tend to be a bit more basic
(which makes it all the more annoying when she overdoes them, but that's just me.)

For example, Mariah here (My favorite Mimi run, btw) and Christina here have more in common than the type of run Beyonce tends to stick to - which is really going up and down a scale with some flourish, and not full-on interpretive moments that Mimi and Christina go for.

I don't see how Christina's runs fit her music at all. They sound out of place in the song. They sound as if she has suddenly decided that she wants to do "something" and hasn't planned it out or doesn't have the musicality to improvise and have it make sense. And it isn't that they sound gritty; they sound strained. To me, Haley sounds gritty. She doesn't sound strained. Mariah on AYNAF:C&C sounds gritty. She doesn't sound strained. But Christina often sounds strained.

I disagree about it sounding out of place. To me, the way Christina does runs is very "churchy" and soulful, which is a tradition in the genres she's always dabbled in (Pop/R&B). Same goes for Mariah. The runs and the music have a similar context, and so they fit for me. In fact, Back To Basics is an entire album based on the type of music that inspired the way that she sings, and it works. That "Ain't No Other Man" video I linked above is a great example. Those are some of her most superfluous runs, but you can't say they don't fit that jazzy arrangement and those live horns. The run she starts that song off with is also an example her belting into an impressive run without a hint of strain. Here's her doing it again (and even going a bit higher).

And those types of runs require way more improvisational skill to pull off than what Beyonce does, because it is so much easier to spiral off melody or sound bad. Of course, in the case of all these singers these performances have been rehearsed to hell and back, so nobody's actually improvising here.

Beyonce's style of runs I would describe as...I dunno, classical? To me it sounds weird to hear her randomly run up the chromatic scale while singing an R&B song.

[Koodo]

This remix of BORN TO DIE by Aluna George is positively LIFE GIVING.

[godelsmetric]

Carly Rae Jepsen is an angel. She, with one song, has had more cultural impact and positive influence on humanity itself than most other basic bitches. Here are some reasons why. 1. Carly has, in the cynical age we live in today, done the hardest thing a pop star could ever do: craft a charmingly inoffensive tune that captures the loving spirit of adolescent love without any ounce of pandering or, on the other end of the scale, irony. It takes cojones to sing a song that is so inoffensive that it actually becomes offensive to those who seek meaningless things like "a message" or "vocal skill" or "above average production work." 2. Carly has done more for the marginalized demographic of young gay men than your fave could ever dream of doing. At the end of the Call Me Maybe video, we find that the object of her desire is actually gay, (or at the very least bi). So what? EXACTLY. While your pandering faves are quick to group in gays and bisexuals with people with disabilities or even use the word "gay" as a pejorative slur in order to emasculate fashion-conscious men, Carly has done what few popstars have done before her- present a portrait of a gay man with the normalcy of any old man who has a schoolboy crush, nothing more, nothing less. Unlike certain other Dollar Tree-Deschanels, Carly will never have to manufacture an "empowerment" tune that would make up for the psychological scarring that comes with making somebody feel as worthless as a plastic bag drifting through the wind. Bless her. We criticize her because we do not realize that we don't deserve her.

[Peru]

Best thing about CJR is that her surname is as funny to say out loud as Bieber. BIEBER JEPSEN BIEBER JEPSEN BIEBER JEPSEN BIEBER JEPSEN Oprah. Uma. Oprah. Uma

[godelsmetric]

[Beysus]

Yep that gif is hilarious

Good thing I can't work with photoshop. I'd waste HOURS with that shit.

[Beysus]

This remix of BORN TO DIE by Aluna George is positively LIFE GIVING.

Too random and weird for my taste. I dunno

[Ollie Pooch]

I use PS all day for my job but animated gifs still elude me. lol.

ONE DAY

[Phonomezer]

I use PS all day for my job but animated gifs still elude me. lol. ONE DAY

Can't wait for the Ricki Lee and Kerry Anne Kennerley tea *.*

[Nemesis_]

Where is my favourite AUSTRALIAN or UK PERSON tbh?

[Marius_]

Get in and praise Mother Perrysa's latest work

[Christopher]

This legit had me cracking up.

Hey at least katy said she's taking a LONG break after Wide Awake.

The songs in the top 10...how the hell...? It's IMO the weakest single she's produced.

[Nemesis_]

Get in and praise Mother Perrysa's latest work

[Marius_]

Lambily! Got some nice new surprises coming your way soon! Shhhhhhh for now: ) "excitement!" #MCSummer2012

https://www.facebook.com/mariahcarey

[botty]

https://www.facebook.com/mariahcarey

Get in and praise Mother Perrysa's latest work

Marius you are delivering

[Beysus]

What's that? New Messiah music???????

[Trigger]

https://www.facebook.com/mariahcarey

Consider me interested.

[Nemesis_]

https://www.facebook.com/mariahcarey

[B-Dex]

Get in and praise Mother Perrysa's latest work

Bigger budget than the Hag's latest release.

[Nemesis_]

The Hag is filming the video for TURN OFF THE RADIO in Florence, apparently.



Officially one of the worst choices from the SHITPIT that is MDOA and quite unfortunate that we've now got confirmation that this is a single.

;_;

Where is IM ADDICTED or LOVE SPENT tbh

Fuck even SOME GIRLS or BEAUTIFUL KILLER would be better choices

CHRIS HUN sorry for some reason the DJ ROOM has been BREAKING for me so I might as well go to bed :(

[Delio]

My BB enjoying Roller coasters.





Also..Him and Demi Lovato keep having these hidden SKYPE convos. Dont fall into her web dear ;_;

[Cynosure]

https://www.facebook.com/mariahcarey

Summer is saved.
Would have much prefered her successor, but I can't complain.

[DMeisterJ]

New Mariah?

I guess I'm excited.

[Beysus]

I've been listening to E=MC² a lot lately. For The Record is flawless, quintessentially Mimi ballad perfecton. I've been jamming to O.O.C all last weak.

Totally missed this post.

I LOVE E=MC². I like the majority of the tracks. The ballads are flawless:

I stay in Love
Love Story
Last Kiss
Thankx 4 Nothin'
For the Record
I wish you well

I'm not worthy















Nope, I didn't forgot about Bye Bye. Don't like it

[Delio]

New Mariah? I guess I'm excited.

NEW MARIAH?

[royalan]

And so it is Mariah that will be the first of the Summer Divas to strike. Wasn't expecting her until fall.

Things just got interesting...

[Beysus]

This pic is so creepy. Looks like a 5-year old with axillary hair

[Delio]

This pic is so creepy. Looks like a 5-year old with axillary hair

Again. What 5 year olds have YOU seen? How creepy :O

[Beysus]

http://muscle.iuhu.org/2010/02/the-s...-year-old-boy/

He looks more manly than the dude from Wrong Direction tbh

[Delio]

http://muscle.iuhu.org/2010/02/the-s...-year-old-boy/ He looks more manly than the dude from Wrong Direction tbh

If you say so dear.

[Switters]

The resemblance is uncanny...

[Delio]

Not here for this MESS against my young irish prince.

[Larson Conway]

The BEYSTANNING in the last page

What kind of orgasmic double rainbow

<3 <3 <3

And END OF TIME is legit one of the best pop songs in this pop era